well, they can't do that again. It was definitely cool but Infinite is so much more.
SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion
- Thread starter thomasmahler
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ChimpBottle
Member
But I thought the two starring universes (one with Booker and one with Comstock) don't diverge until Booker's decision with the baptism, after Lutece is born.
Who says male-Lutece is from on one of those two universes?
Remachinate
Member
No, I got the impression it's a SS2 callback to The Many.
Connective tissue.
the Bioshock 1 twist was good in a videogame context
I liked the would you kindly because it's funny how you just do stuff you're being asked in games. I also remember back when I was playing it even going like "why the hell would you go down there without asking any questions and doing what this guy says?" but still didnt see the manchurian candidate coming
I do think though that Infinite also plays at that sort of meta level by giving you plenty of typical videogame choices thinking you're gonna somehow affect the outcome of the game and realizing that the whole point is that no matter the choice the result is always the same
I liked the would you kindly because it's funny how you just do stuff you're being asked in games. I also remember back when I was playing it even going like "why the hell would you go down there without asking any questions and doing what this guy says?" but still didnt see the manchurian candidate coming
I do think though that Infinite also plays at that sort of meta level by giving you plenty of typical videogame choices thinking you're gonna somehow affect the outcome of the game and realizing that the whole point is that no matter the choice the result is always the same
I very curious as to what is actually Ken's intent and what is left up to audience interpretation. There are a lot of ambiguous aspects about the setting, plot and characters. Some suspension of disbelief regards to how certain things within Colombia work or aspects that go against the laws of physics is obviously required. I know it's a joy for an author or creator to set up the building blocks and watch what their audience comes up with but most of what Infinite does in a native sense is so precise it makes me wonder. Even more so when Shawn said the story is for us to discus and he wasn't going to post in here.
Tummi Gummi
Member
I interpreted that as a very low, throaty growl (coming from Booker) crossed with aural distortion (from two Bookers existing in the same universe). So it fit the reveal, imo.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
where was that explained?
Well regardless read this thread. Start from page 20 maybe.
The ending is ALOOOOTTTT more than just booker is comstock, he hand over elizabeth, game finish.
The Elite
BOSS
I agree with what you're saying but my hunch is that he is. That's why he's the one who shows up to collect the child. That doesn't necessarily need to be the case though.
The difference between Booker and Comstock's worlds doesn't just have to be the acceptance of Baptism. A lot of other things can be different.
Someone mentioned that it was in one of the Lutece's recordings but I may have missed that one. Need to check the transcripts.
Since a few are being honest here. I liked the game as a whole but I didn't like the ending either. They bring up all of these bigger than life concepts but in doing so, takes away from the relevance of the main plot.
From the characters point of view you probably see redemption but from a multiverse persepective all I see is selfishness. I'd rather they just had the Lutece's end it all rather than Elizabeth. They're the only reason this game is happening anyway.
From the characters point of view you probably see redemption but from a multiverse persepective all I see is selfishness. I'd rather they just had the Lutece's end it all rather than Elizabeth. They're the only reason this game is happening anyway.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
if this is the case though then i have to wonder what the point of that moral is. it's only ever true in videogames currently, unless the game is trying to say something about living with regret or how seeking redemption doesn't change the past.
leaving it up to audience interpretation is Ken's intent!
well I think other themes in the game are meant to reflect something about the real world metaphorically, but that the choice aspect certainly worked even better for being in a game. Same exact thing with the sleeper agent in Bioshock.
ChimpBottle
Member
That's a good point, I just assumed he was as that was where his involvement began. Why didn't Lutece just get the one from - oh, never mind.
yea, even Shawn Elliot said in OT that he will not come into this thread to discuss the story. It's up to us.
Tummi Gummi
Member
I'd be wary of worrying too much about the details in Rapture. I don't think anything they see or do there is meant to be taken as "real", per se.
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The Everyman
but then what is the game trying to say about choice?
well I mean, I think it's there to show how the plot of this game also relates to Bioshock
always a city, always a man, etc etc. Basically there's an in-game explanation inside this game as to why Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite are so alike, it's the same story in different places. Hamcock and Andrew Ryan, Big Daddies and the Songbird and so on.
the rapture part works in there to better reflect on this point
I dont think that particular aspect is meant to have any other deeper meaning besides being sort of meta when it comes to videogames. Clearly the "real world" themes within the game happen in Columbia. I think Bioshock was the same way.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
I think they did do it again though. In Bioshock they addressed the players lack of choice given the linear nature of a games narrative with would you kindly. In Infinite they address how all gamers have different experiences and do things differently during gameplay yet all end up in the same place given the linear narrative in the scene when you see thousands of other Bookers running across the bridge to the lighthouse. It's much more subtle but the scene's better for it once the light-bulb flicks and it creates a more rounded commentary of the experience that games offer.
Mh, I guess you can work that in yeah.
Tummi Gummi
Member
Oh I just meant in terms of trying to come up with explanations as to why Bathyspheres work.
I like your take on that.
Vire
Member
Yes, Comstock knew of Booker's debts and offered to pay them off in exchange for the child he could never have.
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The Everyman
well if we're constantly looping the same point in time, then... well... yeah... duh.
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The Everyman
was that tear also through time? explaining the age difference?
sure, tear can go anywhere anytime
Bioshock: Infinite's narrative is also a great video game story. You start the game, and you are Booker. You and Booker learn everything at the same pace. Neither you nor Booker know what the 'debt' is. Neither you nor Booker knows who Anna is. The only relevant experience that Booker recalls is the Wounded Knee incident, and the game tells you that at the very beginning.
In reflection it so perfectly deals with the fact that you are playing this character with no recollection of your past, which is something done in all video games but rarely makes contextual sense.
In reflection it so perfectly deals with the fact that you are playing this character with no recollection of your past, which is something done in all video games but rarely makes contextual sense.
That choice is irrelevant.
Well trying to wrap my head a round a few bits. Had a scan through the last 20 pages and coming to the conclusion there is a underlying theme of trauma and memory regression steaming from Booker.
Though not stated implicitly is more than likely his experience from wounded knee. This traumatic experience then leads to the pivotal baptism scene where depending on which reality splits in one of 2 ways (yeah maybe more but the game only really shows 2) one that goes through with the baptism and is absolved of his guilt or burden and through other events becomes Comstock while the other doesn't go through with it and becomes/continues to be Booker who ends up exchanging Anna for his 'debt'.
Might be well off there but seams plausible without too much over thinking. Ah sod it I'm just going to watch Vertigo as there seams to be so many parallels there.
Though not stated implicitly is more than likely his experience from wounded knee. This traumatic experience then leads to the pivotal baptism scene where depending on which reality splits in one of 2 ways (yeah maybe more but the game only really shows 2) one that goes through with the baptism and is absolved of his guilt or burden and through other events becomes Comstock while the other doesn't go through with it and becomes/continues to be Booker who ends up exchanging Anna for his 'debt'.
Might be well off there but seams plausible without too much over thinking. Ah sod it I'm just going to watch Vertigo as there seams to be so many parallels there.
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The Everyman
ok, well you know what, that little bit of clarity raises the ending a few notches but there's still a lot of hokeyness in my mind, ill think it out some more though.
what's funny is that the twist is one of those that you could easily just throw as a wild guess and be right because the "everyone's related" thing tends to happen so much in stories
"I bet he and the bad guy are the same guy!" "I bet she's his daughter!"
but it's handled in a way here that makes it work and still surprise you
maybe, but combstock aged faster because of the tear experiments.
that's pretty much exactly what happens, yeah
tears can go through time, it is shown throughout the game (return of the jedi, girls just wanna have fun, creedeence, old elizabeth). Safe to guess the same happens here.
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The Everyman
hmm, do you think the game is trying to simply say that free will doesn't exist? because if so i also subscribe to that but i dont feel this plot best illustrates that idea.
voxophone? maybe i should just youtube all the voxophones.
Haha, yeah, like I have a friend who wildly guessed that Comstock and Booker are the same guy and that Elizabeth is Booker's daughter around the time you first go to Finkton.
The Elite
BOSS
You're there.
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The Everyman
actually, i felt something like that coming because of the booker deep voiced overtones to comstocks intercom ramblings.
That's what I thought. Those lines just popped up into my head when I read that post.
Oh, it did. Sort of makes me think about string theory in physics and how there may really be other dimensions existing all around each other. Warped as hell, but kind of neat to see a sort of spin off of that.
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The Everyman
oh shit, that's actually cool.
bodyofanamerican
Member
I didn't call the daughter thing, but I really had the Booker/Comstock thing nailed back in December. I thought the old Comstock looked suspiciously like Booker and had no idea why he underwent such a radical redesign other than they were trying to protect something about the character.
Original:
what else did you find hokey?
Yeah. The more I think back on all the dialogue and stuff in the game, the more I can connect early things with the plot later on.
I really need to do a second playthrough.
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