SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion

another thing i have to wonder is, in a landscape of infinite universes with an infinite number of horrible attrocities, why concern yourself with stopping comstock? was it so that the universe tearing would never be invented? although surely it must have been replicated in some point in another universe. was it because it affected her life personally, and she would never have to live in the tower? She would still have memories of it though.
 
Raitosaito said:
I feel like enough was implied about Songbird in the Voxaphone to give context, but as a character he sucked...

We just don't need more of him at all.
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He didnt "suck", he just served his purpose and nothing more. He sucked as much as Big Daddies "sucked"

Songbird is completely irrelevant and needs no further explanation


it's as if people were asking they want Bioshock DLC to see what a Big Daddy looks like without the suit. Who gives a shit.
 
SalsaShark said:
what do people dont understand/want to explain about Songbird?

it's just Infinite's Big Daddy. It's a mutation of sorts meant to protect an asset. In Bioshock it was Ryan trying to protect little sisters from the Splicers and here it's making sure Elizabeth stays in her tower.
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Yep, but maybe I should have clarified my statement a bit more. I wasn't particularly a fan of explaining HOW subjects became a Big Daddy. Hell, even when the player went through it themselves in Bio1 I thought it was just taking some of the mystery away. I was just saying that I hope they don't give us something like "oh an outsider found Columbia, we took him and turned him into this giant demonic bird through the following steps."
 
-COOLIO- said:
another thing i have to wonder is, in a landscape of infinite universes with an infinite number of horrible attrocities, why concern yourself with stopping comstock? was it so that the universe tearing would never be invented? although surely it must have been replicated in some point in another universe. was it because it affected her life personally, and she would never have to live in the tower? She would still have memories of it though.
Click to expand...

Comstock was something that the Lutece's intervention created. I suppose they just saw it as their moral obligation to help undo the damage they caused. Elizabeth, similarly, would be concerned with ending what her bloodline created.
 
SalsaShark said:
what do people dont understand/want to explain about Songbird?

it's just Infinite's Big Daddy. It's a mutation of sorts meant to protect an asset. In Bioshock it was Ryan trying to protect little sisters from the Splicers and here it's making sure Elizabeth stays in her tower.
Click to expand...

yea, but he's so much more important since there's only one and we're curious about it.
 
LiK said:
yea, but he's so much more important since there's only one and we're curious about it.
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meh. He's only one because only one is needed here. He's just a guy who got turned into a monster, no further explanation needed. I'd much rather have the DLC focus on other stuff.
 
SalsaShark said:
what do people dont understand/want to explain about Songbird?

it's just Infinite's Big Daddy. It's a mutation of sorts meant to protect an asset. In Bioshock it was Ryan trying to protect little sisters from the Splicers and here it's making sure Elizabeth stays in her tower.
Click to expand...

yeah but what the Big Daddies were, their function, their creation, even their day-to-day lives - we saw all of these first hand in the first 2 Bioshocks.

The only thing we know about Songbird is its motives: Keep Elizabeth in tower/Get Elizabeth back into tower.

There's even audio diaries insinuating that there might be a human inside Songbird, Big Daddy-style. And, if that's the case, knowing what we know of Big Daddies, and knowing that Songbird is "programmed" to feel "incredible betrayal" whenever Elizabeth isn't around, I'm betting that Songbird's biological components are *another* Booker, kidnapped from a universe we never saw, and Songbird's instincts are a forcibly warped version of Booker's own paternal love for Anna!Elizabeth.

Which is also why we probably never got much about Songbird in the game proper. There'd really be no way to impart this without having to prematurely pull the ripcords on a bunch of other reveals.

Hopefully it'll be DLC.
 
i_am_not_jon_ames said:
The more I think about Songbird, the more I hope the DLC doesn't explain him to death. I kind of like the mystery around him.
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I was fully expecting them to reveal the man inside as another version of Booker, one who was manipulated by Comstock to protect Elizabeth by playing on his need to protect her.

SalsaShark said:
what do people dont understand/want to explain about Songbird?

it's just Infinite's Big Daddy. It's a mutation of sorts meant to protect an asset. In Bioshock it was Ryan trying to protect little sisters from the Splicers and here it's making sure Elizabeth stays in her tower.
Click to expand...

What sort of individual would have that done to themselves and protect Elizabeth so zealously without a reason to do so? If not Booker, that person must have a compelling reason.
 
SoulUnison said:
yeah but what the Big Daddies were, their function, their creation, even their day-to-day lives - we saw all of these first hand in the first 2 Bioshocks.

The only thing we know about Songbird is its motives: Keep Elizabeth in tower/Get Elizabeth back into tower.

There's even audio diaries insinuating that there might be a human inside Songbird, Big Daddy-style. And, if that's the case, knowing what we know of Big Daddies, and knowing that Songbird is "programmed" to feel "incredible betrayal" whenever Elizabeth isn't around, I'm betting that Songbird's biological components are *another* Booker, kidnapped from a universe we never saw, and Songbird's instincts are a forcibly warped version of Booker's own paternal love for Anna!Elizabeth.

Which is also why we probably never got much about Songbird in the game proper. There'd really be no way to impart this without having to prematurely pull the ripcords on a bunch of other reveals.

Hopefully it'll be DLC.
Click to expand...

If it is revealed in one of the DLCs that Songbird is another Booker, I will be really disappointed. I don't want to know anything more about Songbird, in fact.
 
Remachinate said:
I was fully expecting them to reveal the man inside as another version of Booker, one who was manipulated by Comstock to protect Elizabeth by playing on his need to protect her.



What sort of individual would have that done to themselves and protect Elizabeth so zealously without a reason to do so? If not Booker, that person must have a compelling reason.
Click to expand...

Same here. I was convinced the yellow shield cracking in the player's POV was related to Songbird's cracked eye.

Scratch said:
That's literally what they did to bioshock 2's MC: delta
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Hahaha I know, I know. But you see the point I was getting at I'm sure!
 
SalsaShark said:
they are different but the same

it all boils down to two "arks" trying to get the best of humanity together to create the allegedly "perfect" society away from common society's democracy and what have you

the intent is obviously different, whereas Comstock does it as a sort of calling from god and Andrew Ryan is just tired of everyone's bullshit
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Oh yeah, I remember the been a few lines referencing The Ark. There's a shit ton of religious themes running throughout (gives me chuckle as an atheist getting a kick out of it and digging through stuff I class as myth) but I posted this in the OT...

Dr Dogg said:
How apt that this was released during Passover. What with the mention of Lambs and I'm sure The Israelites were referenced earlier in Finktown and now that I'm aboard Comstock's airship, The Hand of the Prophet, the propaganda poster depicting him that I'm staring could well be Chuck Heston straight out of The Ten Commandments. If anything I think I might be delving back in some books I haven't read in ages after finishing up.
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Comstock may as well be bloody Noah now.
 
Did anyone think the final boss battle sucked balls (The airship sequence)?

Took me like 5 attempts and it was really fiddly trying to get the crow to lock on.
 
FeD.nL said:
In hindsight the part where you play the guitar and liz sings, best father/daughter moment in gaming.
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Agreed. The quiet little moments in this game and all of the subtle hints really do add up to an exemplary experience. I was able to piece together the ending 2 hours from the end (around Comstock house) but entering this thread has given me a lot of perspective on all the neat little bits of foreshadowing Levine used throughout
 
I haven't started my second playthrough yet (planning on starting tonight), but is there a theory that explains when Booker got out of his barefoot hobo clothes that he was wearing at the beginning (on the boat scene)?
 
Superimposer said:
I still don't get the distinction. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Also I was here for mattfabb. Somehow something in my brain automatically forgot the first two points. I remembered the third but I'm amazed I just plain forgot the other two immediately after reading them as some kind of spoiler reflex.
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Let me see if I can help.

The Lutece's have gone through the entirety of Bioshock: Infinite multiple times. 'The circle must be broken', and there is a ... time loop, I suppose.

What isn't the case -> "He doesn't row" -> Booker probably doesn't like rowing. Maybe he almost drowned once.

What is the case -> "He DOESN'T row" -> We've done this hundreds of times, and Booker never rows when we are in the boat. He won't now, because he never has.

Similar to the coin flip. Every time Booker flips the coin it comes up heads. They are bored by this fact, as they say after you flip the coin. No matter what, Booker is always doing the exact same thing.
 
SoulUnison said:
yeah but what the Big Daddies were, their function, their creation, even their day-to-day lives - we saw all of these first hand in the first 2 Bioshocks.

The only thing we know about Songbird is its motives: Keep Elizabeth in tower/Get Elizabeth back into tower.

There's even audio diaries insinuating that there might be a human inside Songbird, Big Daddy-style. And, if that's the case, knowing what we know of Big Daddies, and knowing that Songbird is "programmed" to feel "incredible betrayal" whenever Elizabeth isn't around, I'm betting that Songbird's biological components are *another* Booker, kidnapped from a universe we never saw, and Songbird's instincts are a forcibly warped version of Booker's own paternal love for Anna!Elizabeth.

Which is also why we probably never got much about Songbird in the game proper. There'd really be no way to impart this without having to prematurely pull the ripcords on a bunch of other reveals.

Hopefully it'll be DLC.
Click to expand...

I really, really hope they dont go in this direction

it'd be silly for the sake of "twist!". We dont need something like that.

Songbird supposedly existed (or was in it's way to exist) before Comstock/Lutece managed the "bringing people from other universes through tears" thing, so they couldnt have brought another Booker through.

There's also blueprints shown throughout the game that show it's creation and all that. It has a human inside him for sure, but it is just created to protect Elizabeth and through that task they form a bond. Because he's still human inside.

That's all I need. I dont want more EVERYONE'S BOOKER stuff. Do DLC for other stuff.

Remachinate said:
What sort of individual would have that done to themselves and protect Elizabeth so zealously without a reason to do so? If not Booker, that person must have a compelling reason.
Click to expand...

Songbird is a monster created by Comstock. He didnt "do that to himself". He is genetically altered and raised to do whatever the fuck he wants.

Why do Big Daddies protect little sisters?
 
Bought Season Pass as soon as that post-credit ending finishes. If I don't get a DLC where alternate Booker get to go to Paris with Elizabeth I will be mad.

Someone please tell me there is Paris ... The damn ending just stabbed me so deep. Expectation is bad for health I supposed.
 
Guys explain me something...

I didn't get it on the end when he says he was comstock and booker

i didn't get it can someone explain to me?
 
SoulUnison said:
yeah but what the Big Daddies were, their function, their creation, even their day-to-day lives - we saw all of these first hand in the first 2 Bioshocks.

The only thing we know about Songbird is its motives: Keep Elizabeth in tower/Get Elizabeth back into tower.

There's even audio diaries insinuating that there might be a human inside Songbird, Big Daddy-style. And, if that's the case, knowing what we know of Big Daddies, and knowing that Songbird is "programmed" to feel "incredible betrayal" whenever Elizabeth isn't around, I'm betting that Songbird's biological components are *another* Booker, kidnapped from a universe we never saw, and Songbird's instincts are a forcibly warped version of Booker's own paternal love for Anna!Elizabeth.

Which is also why we probably never got much about Songbird in the game proper. There'd really be no way to impart this without having to prematurely pull the ripcords on a bunch of other reveals.

Hopefully it'll be DLC.
Click to expand...
Which is why Bioshock 2 is drivel.
 
Is there any significance to the "Fortunate Son" "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" and "God Only Knows" outside of just showing that the world of Columbia is connected to the "real world"?
 
antitrop said:
Is there any significance to the "Fortunate Son" "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" and "God Only Knows" outside of just showing that the world of Columbia is connected to the "real world"?
Click to expand...

The lyrics

Some boys take a beautiful girl
And hide her away from the rest of the world
I want to be the one to walk in the sun
Oh girls they want to have fun
Oh girls just want to have
Click to expand...
 
antitrop said:
Is there any significance to the "Fortunate Son" "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" and "God Only Knows" outside of just showing that the world of Columbia is connected to the "real world"?
Click to expand...

I think it was just to get across that tears can be opened to any point in time.

Fortunate son= Vietnam era, Girls Wanna Have fun=The 80s, God Only knows=60s

Hmm or what ^ said.
 
I saw Songbird as a Red Herring or MacGuffin though more like a Universal Monster from 1930 Black & Whites. He did his job as a threat and the rest doesn't really need to be answered in the context of the story. Might come across as a missed opportunity or rushed idea by some but the focus was clearly on just Booker and Elizabeth. Never say never though and we might get some very interesting dlc.
 
Gueras said:
Guys explain me something...

I didn't get it on the end when he says he was comstock and booker

i didn't get it can someone explain to me?
Click to expand...

At the baptism, there are two major outcomes.

Sometimes, Booker denies religion. He leaves the baptism, and continues as Booker DeWitt. He get's into debt, and ends up giving away his child to clear it.

Other times, Booker accepts religion. He takes the name of Comstock and meets Lutece. They build Columbia, and the tears give him insight into the future. These visions he decides to call prophecy, causing many to see him as a prophet. The technology that the tears use render him unable to have children, but his prophecies tell him that his child will "drown in flame the mountains of man". He decides to steal the child from the Booker DeWitt who didn't accept the baptism, so that he can fufill the prophecy.
 
Alienous said:
Let me see if I can help.

The Lutece's have gone through the entirety of Bioshock: Infinite multiple times. 'The circle must be broken', and there is a ... time loop, I suppose.

What isn't the case -> "He doesn't row" -> Booker probably doesn't like rowing. Maybe he almost drowned once.

What is the case -> "He DOESN'T row" -> We've done this hundreds of times, and Booker never rows when we are in the boat. He won't now, because he never has.

Similar to the coin flip. Every time Booker flips the coin it comes up heads. They are bored by this fact, as they say after you flip the coin. No matter what, Booker is always doing the exact same thing.
Click to expand...

OK I think I get it. I've always understood the fact that they'd done this hundreds of times etc. etc., I just didn't see how what the brother was saying was implied at all by his tone. But it makes sense I guess.

On the first part, when you say they've been through the entirety, that's not exactly true is it? I mean we're playing through the one journey which actually ended in success. I'm guessing they got to various stages of completion making slight changes until this time Booker succeeds in freeing Elizabeth.

On that point, what was (were) the thing(s) that was done differently that made this journey successful?
 
Gueras said:
Guys explain me something...

I didn't get it on the end when he says he was comstock and booker

i didn't get it can someone explain to me?
Click to expand...

in one version of bookers baptism he becomes a religious nut, and in another a gambling drunk.

the nut steals the drunks daughter through a tear in space in and time and takes her as his own. brother lutece pulls him into comstock bookers universe and recruits him to find liz, his mind tries to make sense of it.
 
Dr Dogg said:
I saw Songbird as a Red Herring or MacGuffin though more like a Universal Monster from 1930 Black & Whites. He did his job as a threat and the rest doesn't really need to be answered in the context of the story. Might come across as a missed opportunity or rushed idea by some but the focus was clearly on just Booker and Elizabeth. Never say never though and we might get some very interesting dlc.
Click to expand...

yup

Songbird is there just because he's needed and if anything he's designed the way he is to show the whole Rapture and Columbia are the same thing

always a man always a city always a big-ass genetically modified monster protecting a gurl
 
I've also got to say the Lutece's Voice Actors did an incredible job. Really got across the Kooky early 20th century scientist role.
 
Has anyone collected every Voxophone? I collected like 75 or something. I was looking pretty thoroughly throughout the whole game too. You must have to be really searching to find them all.
 
Superimposer said:
OK I think I get it. I've always understood the fact that they'd done this hundreds of times etc. etc., I just didn't see how what the brother was saying was implied at all by his tone. But it makes sense I guess.

On the first part, when you say they've been through the entirety, that's not exactly true is it? I mean we're playing through the one journey which actually ended in success. I'm guessing they got to various stages of completion making slight changes until this time Booker succeeds in freeing Elizabeth.

On that point, what was (were) the thing(s) that was done differently that made this journey successful?
Click to expand...


I'm not sure, but it's probably elderly Elizabeth pulling that Booker DeWitt into her reality. She intervenes and gives Booker's Elizabeth the tools necessary to stop the Songbird from killing Booker (Elizabeth suggests that every single time the Songbird manages to kill Booker).
 
SalsaShark said:
what do people dont understand/want to explain about Songbird?

it's just Infinite's Big Daddy. It's a mutation of sorts meant to protect an asset. In Bioshock it was Ryan trying to protect little sisters from the Splicers and here it's making sure Elizabeth stays in her tower.
Click to expand...

There is even a Voxaphone detailing how Fink saw the Big Daddys through a tear and found a way to combine man and metal.
 
tesqui said:
Has anyone collected every Voxophone? I collected like 75 or something. I was looking pretty thoroughly throughout the whole game too. You must have to be really searching to find them all.
Click to expand...

Yes, I got the achieve on my first run. You definitely have to explore all the side-content.
 
tesqui said:
Has anyone collected every Voxophone? I collected like 75 or something. I was looking pretty thoroughly throughout the whole game too. You must have to be really searching to find them all.
Click to expand...

The issue I had is that there was an early specific part of the game where I didnt have enough lock picks to unlock a couple doors. Guess is that there were voxaphones in there
 
Alienous said:
Comstock was something that the Lutece's intervention created. I suppose they just saw it as their moral obligation to help undo the damage they caused. Elizabeth, similarly, would be concerned with ending what her bloodline created.
Click to expand...

somewhat satisfactory. thanks.
 
SalsaShark said:
yup

Songbird is there just because he's needed and if anything he's designed the way he is to show the whole Rapture and Columbia are the same thing

always a man always a city always a big-ass genetically modified monster protecting a gurl
Click to expand...

in one audiolog, its implied that fink watched rapture/the big daddies through one of the rifts and created (or was "inspired") songbird that way.
 
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