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[pakkit]

I really enjoyed the story in a Star Trek/Back to the Future way. It's fun to think about and the universe is varied enough that it rewards exploration. Hearing Adam Sessler compare the ending to Chinatown, however, seems like a journalist trying to elevate the medium.

Definitely one of the best examples of story-telling in the medium. See: Grim Fandango, Anachronox, Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, Portal series

It seems everyone agrees that pacing wise this game has excellent bookends with a relatively uninspired middle.

 

[Lunar15]

The only theory we have for that right now is PTSD is a bitch. Otherwise, maybe a subject for DLC.

Also, fighting the vox populi at the end makes sense from a plot standpoint, but not much sense from a story standpoint. It's unsatisfying. The vox only really became an enemy late into the game, and I don't feel that they represent the greatest threat to Booker and Elizabeth thematically.

Now, make Songbird an other dimension Booker who wants to stop himself from killing himself... without fully revealing what that means... that could be an interesting final battle.

 

[nbthedude]

The only theory we have for that right now is PTSD is a bitch. Otherwise, maybe a subject for DLC.

I am so glad I didn't buy that season pass right now. After the opening 20 minutes, I literally alt+tabbed out of the game and eyeballed it in the Steam store.

 

[Lunar15]

If they put story information in a DLC, I'll probably never forgive them.

 

[Gorillaz]

Watch it on youtube - it's like 20 seconds, although there's a singing part in the credits which is also pretty cool.

(edit) Re-reading your post, seems like you've seen it. I don't know if it's a "happy" ending - if that's what it is. Kinda sad to think Anna will grow up to be just a normal girl with an dysfunctional father. I think the ending is something else though and they've opened the door, so to speak, to DLC there.

They made it seems like it was a possible happy ever after, but with the debt and other past, it's not truly a happy ending. Which might be the underlined message in it all. It's just bittersweet.

However by how it looks it seems like he remembers the events of Columbia despite it all being erased due to the killing of his Comstock side?

If they put story information in a DLC, I'll probably never forgive them.

Wouldn't be surprised if it happens. I know Ken said he's doing the first DLC, idk about the others.

 

[Nert]

If they put story information in a DLC, I'll probably never forgive them.

I don't have the exact quote on me right now, but I'm pretty sure that they have said that the DLC will be self-contained pieces of content that aren't necessary to fill in any gaps from the main game (likely along the lines of Minerva's Den).

 

[GoddyofAus]

If they put story information in a DLC, I'll probably never forgive them.

What? Why? What DLC would you possibly expect for BI if not story related or expanding? Multiplayer?

 

[ThusZarathustra]

The only theory we have for that right now is PTSD is a bitch. Otherwise, maybe a subject for DLC.

No no guys, see, religion is bad. As soon as you're baptized you then want to burn the world, just like how all revolutionary groups are just as bad as the regimes they strive against! And all industry and businessmen are terrible and exploitative!

Yeah, the themes aren't explored particularly well at all if you want to do more than just have a passing glance at them, for sure.

 

[Beast Legacy]

Yes, I agree with this. I said this in a different way, but my opinion remains "this is about as good as storytelling gets in this particular medium."

That doesn't mean video games aren't great or that I can't have fun with them, but all mediums have their strengths and weaknesses. No one thinks of sculpture as a lesser art form, but at the same time no one would laud it as a good medium to choose if you want to tell a complicated narrative. The same basic concept would apply to video games. Video games do a lot of things well, but telling complex, sophisticated narratives laden with exquisite and deliberate meaning isn't really one of those things.



I agree, but I do think (some) of those quotes are symbolic of the problem with the game's story telling; it touches on so many grand themes that someone who wants to see deep meaning in it will be able to reach through the piece and do so.

I think the medium is still too young to make a judgement call on that. Perhaps when all is said and done I'm wrong, but I just don't agree with thinking video games can't be used to tell a meaningful narrative. Games having the aspects that other mediums have (ability to be watched like a movie, read like a novel, etc.) as well as it's own (ability to be played) means that it's certainly possible to create meaningful games.

I would agree with the sentiment that we aren't there yet and that Infinite didn't follow through with a lot of themes it presented throughout the story. I do hope that steps Infinite has taken, having contextual/historic racist imagery and religious commentary, despite their underdevelopment, for a big deal high profile AAA video game helps ease more developers into crafting more mature stories. Infinite could have said a lot more about its subjects if it chose to, but here's hoping future games and their developers take up that torch.

 

[GoddyofAus]

No no guys, see, religion is bad. As soon as you're baptized you then want to burn the world, just like how all revolutionary groups are just as bad as the regimes they strive against! And all industry and businessmen are terrible and exploitative!

Yeah, the themes aren't explored particularly well at all if you want to do more than just have a passing glance at them, for sure.

That can certainly be debated but I would give Irrational the benefit of the doubt and wait and see what they have in store. Ken Levine is way too meticulous to leave plot holes unchecked.

 

[pakkit]

If they put story information in a DLC, I'll probably never forgive them.

If they don't include story information in the DLC, I'll probably never forgive them.

I remember L.A. Noire's DLC content really filled in the narrative.

 

[nbthedude]

Also, fighting the vox populi at the end makes sense from a plot standpoint, but not much sense from a story standpoint. It's unsatisfying. The vox only really became an enemy late into the game, and I don't feel that they represent the greatest threat to Booker and Elizabeth thematically.

Now, make Songbird an other dimension Booker who wants to stop himself from killing himself... without fully revealing what that means... that could be an interesting final battle.

Bioshock took time demonstrating how its the open ended libertarian utopian society went wrong.

Bioshock 2 (albeit less successfully) explored the pitfalls of its hierarchal communist society.

Bioshock Infinite presents two revolutions but never really explores how either developed, progressed, or went wrong.

 

[antonz]

No no guys, see, religion is bad. As soon as you're baptized you then want to burn the world, just like how all revolutionary groups are just as bad as the regimes they strive against! And all industry and businessmen are terrible and exploitative!

Yeah, the themes aren't explored particularly well at all if you want to do more than just have a passing glance at them, for sure.

Yeah the way its handled I can easily see an employee being offended. The guy seeks forgiveness for being a monster to natives etc. and yet when he starts anew he's basically an even worse version of his former self that now glorifies the things he hated himself for prior.

 

[GoddyofAus]

Bioshock took time demonstrating how its the open ended libertarian utopian society went wrong.

Bioshock 2 (albeit less successfully) explored the pitfalls of its hierarchal communist society.

Bioshock Infinite presents two revolutions but never really explores how either developed, progressed, or went wrong.

The second "Revolution" (I assume you're talking about the attack on New York) is less an open revolt and more just a severe terrorist attack. There's no way Columbia would be able to take on the military might of the U.S on its own in the 1980's. No amount of tears in the fabric of space time is going to stop that Nuclear Weapon destroying your city.

Yeah the way its handled I can easily see an employee being offended. The guy seeks forgiveness for being a monster to natives etc. and yet when he starts anew he's basically an even worse version of his former self that now glorifies the things he hated himself for prior.

That can be explained away by suggesting that the best way to bury your guilt is create your own delusion where such actions are not only acceptable, but the best thing to do for the sake of humanity. Queue the Aryan race suggestions throughout the game.

 

[ThusZarathustra]

That can certainly be debated but I would give Irrational the benefit of the doubt and wait and see what they have in store. Ken Levine is way too meticulous to leave plot holes unchecked.

I'm just trying to cover both sides of the argument with my readings here, my man! The game's intentions and what it sets out to do seem pretty clear to me, but one need not adhere to authorial intent when doing readings of a work.

 

[nbthedude]

I don't have the exact quote on me right now, but I'm pretty sure that they have said that the DLC will be self-contained pieces of content that aren't necessary to fill in any gaps from the main game (likely along the lines of Minerva's Den).

Well that gives me hope. More self containment is what this game needs. That could very easily end up being better than the main game because the concept behind the world if Columbus is great.

 

[nbthedude]

The second "Revolution" (I assume you're talking about the attack on New York) is less an open revolt and more just a severe terrorist attack. There's no way Columbia would be able to take on the military might of the U.S on its own in the 1980's. No amount of tears in the fabric of space time is going to stop that Nuclear Weapon destroying your city.



That can be explained away by suggesting that the best way to bury your guilt is create your own delusion where such actions are not only acceptable, but the best thing to do for the sake of humanity. Queue the Aryan race suggestions throughout the game.

No, I mean Comstock's society and Vox Populi's. But what went wrong under Elizabeth makes a third utopian attempt gone wrong that goes unexplained.

 

[Gorillaz]

Infinite's downfall of what it all stood for, especially Columbia, imo was due to a change in development.

I said it earlier that at one point the game was meant to be all about American Patriotism AS a religion. I mean even if you look at the early trailers and vids of what Ken was detailing, it made it sound like the city was meant to show off the best parts of American values to the world. People KNEW the city existed for the most part.


I don't know what happened in the past 3 years but, I believe the change in direction causes some parts of this to not "click" naturally.

 

[Nert]

Shawn Elliot's posts about the upcoming DLC from this thread:

I understand that it's pointless to attempt to wave away absurdly mistaken assumptions with information, but whatever: These are self contained stories, comprised of completely unique content. These do not include cut material, and we're working on them now. Nothing was withheld from Infinite. This is new and altogether unique material (three separate stories, with unique contexts and content - not weapon/upgrade packs). If you're skeptical, save your money and see what we have to offer when the time comes. I'm sitting here working on it as I browse, and as always the disparity between my lived experience and the notions in circulation here can be comical.

Three entirely new missions with all new content and self contained stories. Thanks!

 

[Guevara]

Bioshock took time demonstrating how its the open ended libertarian utopian society went wrong.

Bioshock 2 (albeit less successfully) explored the pitfalls of its hierarchal communist society.

Bioshock Infinite presents two revolutions but never really explores how either developed, progressed, or went wrong.

I agree with this.

We get at the problems of the Comstock society and its underbelly, but we never really see what's so bad about the Vox society (besides Daisy wanting you dead, which is understandable really).

 

[DatDude]

There is a very significant difference between a story that can focus on a complex topic and make meaning of it, and one that simply throws a huge number of big topics on the wall and hoping some stick.

I think at the end of the day there is still one main theme than beings and ends, which is the tale about a farther's redemption for his daughter.

All the other big "concepts" are simply are speculative discussions and theories, simply because were bored.

 

[Grief.exe]

The second "Revolution" (I assume you're talking about the attack on New York) is less an open revolt and more just a severe terrorist attack. There's no way Columbia would be able to take on the military might of the U.S on its own in the 1980's. No amount of tears in the fabric of space time is going to stop that Nuclear Weapon destroying your city.



That can be explained away by suggesting that the best way to bury your guilt is create your own delusion where such actions are not only acceptable, but the best thing to do for the sake of humanity. Queue the Aryan race suggestions throughout the game.

Couldn't you easily cripple the US infrastructure?

Use tears to destroy bridges to keep ground troops, AA, and vehicles out.

Destroy the missile silos.

Columbia would already have air superiority.

 

[GoddyofAus]

No, I mean Comstock's society and Vox Populi's. But what went wrong under Elizabeth makes a third utopian attempt gone wrong that goes unexplained.

She does explain it, when you discover her as an elderly woman. "The lunatics are running the asylum. They don't listen to me anymore".

In short, she lost her ability to control Columbias inhabitants and as such, their extremism spiralled out of control. Perhaps Elizabeth never wished or intended to attack New York but powers at be amongst the citizenship did it anyway.

Couldn't you easily cripple the US infrastructure?

Use tears to destroy bridges to keep ground troops, AA, and vehicles out.

Destroy the missile silos.

Columbia would already have air superiority.

Not while the Siphon was still operational. Elizabeth didn't unlock her full power until Booker had it destroyed by Songbird.

 

[nbthedude]

I agree with this.

We get at the problems of the Comstock society and its underbelly, but we never really see what's so bad about the Vox society (besides Daisy wanting you dead, which is understandable really).

I am not even sure we get at the root on the problem of Comstock's society. I mean we have a labor exploitation roblem (facilitated by the dude who invented vigors) and we have hints of his domestic troubles. But where Comstock himself went wrong in his leadership and how it relates to American Exceptionalism is pretty murky.

 

[nbthedude]

She does explain it, when you discover her as an elderly woman. "The lunatics are running the asylum. They don't listen to me anymore".

In short, she lost her ability to control Columbias inhabitants and as such, their extremism spiralled out of control. Perhaps Elizabeth never wished or intended to attack New York but powers at be amongst the citizenship did it anyway.



Not while the Siphon was still operational. Elizabeth didn't unlock her full power until Booker had it destroyed by Songbird.

That isn't even an explanation let alone an exploration. It is the equivalent of saying "Some stuff went bad."

 

[DatDude]

I thought it all tied together well enough. I think the game is deliberately loaded with plenty of red herrings that can easily distract with tangent narratives that, in the grand scheme of things, don't matter. Or do, but only as much as you want them to. It's not really a story of Columbia, racism, revolution, America, Comstock, or even Elizabeth. It's a story about fatalism, and never really loses sight of it. It's always there.

Basically this.

I feel like to many people have read this thread, read our various theories, thoughts, concepts.

These are just concepts. There is still 1 main theme throughout, so I'm not sure why people think it's jumbling so many themes at once :/

 

[GoddyofAus]

That isn't even an explanation let alone an exploration. It is the equivalent of saying "Some stuff went bad."

How can you explain something as basic as that any deeper? The public rebelled against the Prophet, just as the Vox did. The end.

 

[DatDude]

How can you explain something as basic as that any deeper? The public rebelled against the Prophet, just as the Vox did. The end.

he just seems bitter about the game in general and is seemingly pissed off that so many people like it.

 

[dejay]

he just seems bitter about the game in general and is seemingly pissed off that so many people like it.

Lets keep it to the arguments - I'm enjoying the discussion.

 

[Sblargh]

I really enjoyed the story in a Star Trek/Back to the Future way. It's fun to think about and the universe is varied enough that it rewards exploration. Hearing Adam Sessler compare the ending to Chinatown, however, seems like a journalist trying to elevate the medium.

Definitely one of the best examples of story-telling in the medium. See: Grim Fandango, Anachronox, Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, Portal series

It seems everyone agrees that pacing wise this game has excellent bookends with a relatively uninspired middle.

Yes, this, thank you. I was trying to put it in words that I found the story interesting, even if I didn't find it interesting. I like it in this pop sci-fi way of being its own little continuity with its own little rules, but if you guys are really that starved to talk about free will, there's gotta be a Cambridge Companion to Free Will or something like that.

 

[Wrestlemania]

I am not even sure we get at the root on the problem of Comstock's society. I mean we have a labor exploitation roblem (facilitated by the dude who invented vigors) and we have hints of his domestic troubles. But where Comstock himself went wrong in his leadership and how it relates to American Exceptionalism is pretty murky.

Labour exploitation plus blaming Daisy for Lady Comstock's death, eventually leading to a bloody uprising. That's it, isn't it?

 

[DatDude]

Yes, this, thank you. I was trying to put it in words that I found the story interesting, even if I didn't find it interesting. I like it in this pop sci-fi way of being its own little continuity with its own little rules, but if you guys are really that starved to talk about free will, there's gotta be a Cambridge Companion to Free Will or something like that.

But why does that matter?

Obviously for some people the ending had quite the profounding effect, for others it didn't.

If sessler felt like that (in regards to the comparison), than he felt like that. Case closed.

 

[GoddyofAus]

Labour exploitation plus blaming Daisy for Lady Comstock's death, eventually leading to a bloody uprising. That's it, isn't it?

I don't think the regular inhabitants of Columbia were ever made aware that Comstock murdered his wife. They stayed loyal to the Prophet until Elizabeth took over, who I speculate was a more moderate Prophet in her messages then Comstock was. Hearing her over the loudspeaker in Comstock House, she kept referring to the Sodom below, as if she was vilifying sinners in general instead of minorities.

Maybe the public didn't take lightly to this. I'm not sure to be honest. All I know is, Elderly Elizabeth seemed to regret what was happening.

 

[nbthedude]

How can you explain something as basic as that any deeper? The public rebelled against the Prophet, just as the Vox did. The end.

Are you saying rebellon is simple and basic?

The French Revolution. The public rebelled against those in power just like in Russia. The end.

How about explaining what kind of ruler Elizabeth was. How she was similar or different from Comstock. How things changed during her reign. Why people rebelled. Why they were successful, etc. The first two Bioshocks did a better job exploring their respective societies specifically because they delved into these kinds of details and exposed how they revealed the problems with the societies founding philosophies.

 

[GoddyofAus]

Are you saying rebellon is simple and basic?

The French Revolution. The public rebelled against those in power just like in Russia. The end.

How about explaining what kind of ruler Elizabeth was. How she was similar or different from Comstock. How things changed during her reign. Why people rebelled. Why they were successful, etc. The first two Bioshocks did a better job exploring their respective societies specifically because they delved into these kinds of details and exposed how they revealed the problems with the societies founding philosophies.

You pretty much answered your own question. The French and Russian Revolutions were very similar. Both were guided by a charismatic leader (figurehead) who vilified and rallied a very pissed off populace against a tyrannical, sometimes brutal regime whose ideals were entirely different to the people they were supposed to be representing. The parallels to Columbia and Rapture on that basis are obvious. This is High School stuff that shouldn't need to be explained to a player in a game. What is wrong with respecting a gamers intelligence for once?

Napoleon Bonaparte, Vladimir Lenin, Atlas and Daisy Fitzroy. Tell me there aren't parallels there. The only unanswered question that I can think of is the identity of the figurehead, if there even was one that encouraged the uprising against Prophet Elizabeth. On that front, you have a ghost of a point.

 

[DatDude]

Are you saying rebellon is simple and basic?

The French Revolution. The public rebelled against those in power just like in Russia. The end.

How about explaining what kind of ruler Elizabeth was. How she was similar or different from Comstock. How things changed during her reign. Why people rebelled. Why they were successful, etc. The first two Bioshocks did a better job exploring their respective societies specifically because they delved into these kinds of details and exposed how they revealed the problems with the societies founding philosophies.

Doesn't that basically sum up all rebellions though?

The Bourgeoisie versus the Proletariat.

The have's, versus the have not's.

Even Bioshock 1 was about that.

The rich, the artists, the scientists, the one's who rapture was built for, the same who would wine and dine in Fort Frolic, and stroll along the gardens and markets in Arcadia.

While the poor, had to bust there asses in Hephaestus, and clean the bathrooms of Fort Frolic, and be the one's who sweep the streets at the Farmers Market.

It's all pretty basic, even in Bioshock 1. Practically every rebellion, down to it's most simplistic core is. It's all about the people who have all the pie, and about the people who want there fair share of a slice as well.

 

[kuroshiki]

I....


I just saw the ending.

And... uh...


wtf is going on? WTF is going on?!

 

[nbthedude]

I give up. I promise to never mention real history on a videogame message board again. It just makes me feel bad about my hobby.

 

[DatDude]

I give up. I promise to never mention real history on a videogame message board again. It just makes me feel bad about my hobby.

Could you maybe further allude to what your referring/talking about, rather than being all vague and cryptic like?

 

[GoddyofAus]

Could you maybe further allude to what your referring/talking about, rather than being all vague and cryptic like?

I'm not sure he even knows himself. He referred to those two real life Revolutions as if they're more complicated then they actually are.

 

[DTKT]

I guess I felt like the focus was between Elizabeth, Bookers and the Magical Twins. Columbia was the setting and the backdrop, but the game was never about a flying city and the people in it. It was about a man who had to find a girl.

 

[Sblargh]

But why does that matter?

Obviously for some people the ending had quite the profounding effect, for others it didn't.

If sessler felt like that (in regards to the comparison), than he felt like that. Case closed.

Because it messes with the standards. It's why everyone laughs at GTA IV being oscar-worthy.
Bioshock Infinite is actually good in that it actually warrants criticism instead of plain mockery. It is a very well-constructed universe, it deals with serious themes, it has interesting character development, but, because of these, the flaws also stick out a bit more. Like the NY Times (was it?) review calling out on being too "gamey" with the boxes appearing where corpses should be.

Because it touches on serious themes, it is harder to dismiss it as games being games and because it has good development in some characters, like Booker and Elizabeth, it is harder not to notice how Comstock and Fitzroy are just charicatures of social issues, it leads to this:

You pretty much answered your own question. The French and Russian Revolutions were very similar. Both were guided by a charismatic leader (figurehead) who vilified and rallied a very pissed off populace against a tyrannical, sometimes brutal regime whose ideals were entirely different to the people they were supposed to be representing. The parallels to Columbia and Rapture on that basis are obvious. This is High School stuff that shouldn't need to be explained to a player in a game. What is wrong with respecting a gamers intelligence for once?

Napoleon Bonaparte, Vladimir Lenin, Atlas and Daisy Fitzroy. Tell me there aren't parallels there.

As the story fails to properly adress its themes, so the fanbase who really wants to like this game acts like real world history is also as simple as the caricatures the game built to be the setting. I'm serious when I say to go after philosophy books about Free Will if the game got you interested in the subject. Saying that you only have illusion of control is not enough and it sucks if you feel it is enough, just like it sucks if you feel the game's approach to oppression and revolution is good enough. It really isn't.

To be fair, I do think this game raises the bar, but in a way, it raises too far above itself, which can't really be said for most of this generation.

 

[dejay]

Are you saying rebellon is simple and basic?

The French Revolution. The public rebelled against those in power just like in Russia. The end.

How about explaining what kind of ruler Elizabeth was. How she was similar or different from Comstock. How things changed during her reign. Why people rebelled. Why they were successful, etc. The first two Bioshocks did a better job exploring their respective societies specifically because they delved into these kinds of details and exposed how they revealed the problems with the societies founding philosophies.

I think the personal stories are centre stage in this game, since there is a relationship evolving as you play the game. The other stories aren't as in the fore as the previous Bioshock games for this reason.

It's stated that the Vox rebelled against the Founders because they kept them down and were spurred on by the revolutionary zeal and propaganda of Fitzroy, who held a grudge after her false arrest for killing Lady Comstock. I'm not sure there's a need to delve any deeper than that, although I guess they could have gone deeper. Where do you stop is the question.

 

[nbthedude]

Could you maybe further allude to what your referring/talking about, rather than being all vague and cryptic like?

Honestly, I am embarassed by these historical oversimplifications and even more embarassed that they are being used to justify a papering over of a videogames lack of narrative development. It is almost like this wierd backwards thinking where political revolution was badly explored in this game in an overly simplistic way therefore you guys seem to assume that real history is equally simplistic.

 

[Apophenia Overload]

You pretty much answered your own question. The French and Russian Revolutions were very similar. Both were guided by a charismatic leader (figurehead) who vilified and rallied a very pissed off populace against a tyrannical, sometimes brutal regime whose ideals were entirely different to the people they were supposed to be representing. The parallels to Columbia and Rapture on that basis are obvious. This is High School stuff that shouldn't need to be explained to a player in a game. What is wrong with respecting a gamers intelligence for once?

Napoleon Bonaparte, Vladimir Lenin, Atlas and Daisy Fitzroy. Tell me there aren't parallels there. The only unanswered question that I can think of is the identity of the figurehead, if there even was one that encouraged the uprising against Prophet Elizabeth. On that front, you have a ghost of a point.

That's a very shallow explanation of two exceedingly complicated revolutions that involved scores of factions and personalities and full of complexities. The French Revolution underwent numerous periods, with multiple charismatic figureheads. They were alternatively ruled by liberal bourgeois reformers who didn't go too far, radical murderous Jacobins who went too far, there was radical against radical factions. And contrary to Mel Brooks depictions of history, at the beginning the monarchy did attempt to enact some democratic reforms, but of course it was too little too far. Louis XVI, albeit out of touch, wasn't some super tyrant but was often at the mercy of the revolutionary mobs, yet conversely was often beloved by the peasantry who loved their king more than the system he represented/reigned over. It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. It was full of nuance. Bioshock Infinite has neither.

The Napoleonic period is something as complex as the Revolutionary period before. Real history is messy and full of drama, and can't be easily simplified. BI doesn't even explain why they have an underclass when they have steampunk machina who could probably do all of the labor as it is. Why bother letting in Negroes and Irishmen if you're trying to create a racist utopia? The existence of the Vox Populi doesn't even make sense, because the existence of an oppressed underclass on Columbia isn't even justified, because the racists could've just left those people back on land anyway.

 

[pakkit]

I'm not sure he even knows himself. He referred to those two real life Revolutions as if they're more complicated then they actually are.

On the one hand, revolutions are pretty complicated. If all it took to thrust a society to revolt was disparity, our world would be anarchic. There are many books to be read and college courses to be plundered if you're into political history.

On the other hand, we seem to be talking about this because there isn't much context for Elizabeth raining fire on the "Sodom below." I'd agree, but I'd also say (as is inevitable in one of these story-rich spoiler threads) we might be reading the narrative too closely. It's a clear parallel to Noah's Ark, and an absolute reason for the gamer to vilify Comstock. He's not only a racist murderer, he's a religious terrorist! Conveniently, this justifies our rampant murder spree. Normally, this cognitive dissonance is swept under the rug in videogames, but at least here, we learn that we are no heroes.

 

[DatDude]

Because it messes with the standards. It's why everyone laughs at GTA IV being oscar-worthy.

Standards set by whom?

And people laughed at GTA IV being "oscar-worthy" because it was shitty fucking game. It was a horrible regression of San Andreas and honestly didn't deserve the praise since it fell backwards on it's major, number underlying principle, which was simply being a fun sandbox experience.

As the story fails to properly adress its themes, so the fanbase who really wants to like this game acts like real world history is also as simple as the caricatures the game built to be the setting.

Not all rebellions are that simple. But at it's core they all share the same foundation as to why they began.

Even Bioshock 1 rebellion was simple, which this guy is seeming to herald as the shining example of explanation. It was just poor people, sick of being poor and mistreated and rebelled.

I think the same goes for Infinite rebellion. He's fishing for deeper back story when there simply doesn't need to be.

 

[LTWheels]

Why do some people need everything to be explained in these stories? Sometimes these explanations (eg about the revolution) aren't actually needed to tell the required story.

 

[Apophenia Overload]

On another note, I find the reception to Bioshock Infinite's ending (which embraces the futility of choice and seems to indicate that free will is an illusion) compared to the massive fan backlash of Mass Effect 3's original endings to be quite amusing. Perhaps you will say that Ken Levine never gave us the false premise of choice in BI. That it is meant to be a rails shooter with minimal RPG elements from start to the finish. And like livestock to the slaughter, we embrace the lack of choice from the beginning, all the way to the end. In which case I will say that at least Mr. Levine was honest to us, unlike Mr. Hudson. But is it not ironic that in a medium that is supposed to better than the ones before because of its interactivity, we embrace this message of the lack of choice? And why?

 

[dejay]

The existence of the Vox Populi doesn't even make sense, because the existence of an oppressed underclass on Columbia isn't even justified, because the racists could've just left those people back on land anyway.

There were plenty of "colored" folk represented doing menial tasks. You have large amounts of automation these days, but that doesn't stop manufacturers moving their operations to the countries with the lowest paid workforces. Hell, look at the amount of underpaid people mowing lawns and being maids now days.

Anyway, I think for the sake of pacing, they didn't delve too deeply into it. Not every story set in a revolution has to go into detail about it.