Dave Meltzer
Banned
It means they're not the most reliable of sources when it comes to describing how the average developer feels towards Wii U. I doubt they're "lying", I also doubt they'd say anything negative even if they had a lot of issues.
Kotaku: The Wii U Won't Be Getting Unreal Engine 4
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It means they're not the most reliable of sources when it comes to describing how the average developer feels towards Wii U. I doubt they're "lying", I also doubt they'd say anything negative even if they had a lot of issues.
turnbuckle
Member
Team Ninja is all Japanese pubs?
Other possibility: Team Ninja releasing ports of games "enhanced" for the Wii U and it's in their best interest for the Wii U to get some good press?
Also even if they talked with everyone (or nearly everyone) that doesn't mean they're going to make decisions in the end that will ultimately harm themselves. I've said this in the past and so have many others in many places but people should understand or accept that Nintendo is a gaming company. PlayStation and Xbox are divisions of conglomerates. Sony and Microsoft are capable and even willing to run their divisions in the red for years until things improve. Especially since they use the gaming divisions to push other aspects of the companies. Does anyone honestly think Nintendo can do the same? Is willing to do the same regardless of how much money they have in the bank? Does anyone honestly think Nintendo can give the big western publishers/developers exactly what they want and not do that?
SniperHunter
Banned
Given how bad Unreal engine 4 looks on PS4, does it even matter?
Who is going to use UE4 anyway? EA has switched to Frostbite 3.0 (no Wii U support atm), Square has got Luminous engine and Glacier engine 2.0, id has id tech 4, Activision have their own engine, Ubisoft loves Nintendo and will support Wii U with whatever engines they have (Dunia, Watch Dogs one etc). Epic themselves will probably stick with Durango exclusively....Who else is left?
Wii U might miss out on a few niche UE4 titles...I think the main problem right now is Frostbite 3.0, Nintendo needs to talk to EA about that
Who is going to use UE4 anyway? EA has switched to Frostbite 3.0 (no Wii U support atm), Square has got Luminous engine and Glacier engine 2.0, id has id tech 4, Activision have their own engine, Ubisoft loves Nintendo and will support Wii U with whatever engines they have (Dunia, Watch Dogs one etc). Epic themselves will probably stick with Durango exclusively....Who else is left?
Wii U might miss out on a few niche UE4 titles...I think the main problem right now is Frostbite 3.0, Nintendo needs to talk to EA about that
metalslimer
Member
Actually with the money nintendo has they definitely could if they didnt go off the deep end PS3 and lose 300 dollars per console. Why do people think of Nintendo as this poor company with no money. Its not like being in the red is any different than now. Thanks to Wiiu and 3ds nintendo will lose money for the 3rd year in a row.
That's not really true either. Like I said at least three times, Nintendo's graphics are always improving.
But since you acknowledge that Nintendo isn't keeping you from enjoying other games with new graphics, I don't see why you feel like other people aren't letting you enjoy what you want.
I just thought it was funny that even after they talked to Nintendo about their console and what they'd want (and praised the console acterwards) they still ended releasing the worst version of NG3 on the Wii U.
I think I'm still just butthurt over them fucking up Metroid Other M. ;P
I'm still really surprised Tecmo is still so close with Nintendo after that.
I'm still really surprised Tecmo is still so close with Nintendo after that.
This wasn't about the average developer or how they feel about Nintendo, though. It was an example of Nintendo going to devs and asking for input. Nothing more, nothing less.
JordanN
Banned
I don't care about the avatar. You seem to throw a tantrum because Nintendo doesn't insist on joining the arms race with MS and Sony. People have explained to you why Nintendo going the same route as them wouldn't help much.
Agreed about Frostbite, Nintendo really needs to fix it with EA and convince them to bring Frostbite to Wii U, if they have to bribe them with money than I guess that's what they have to do.
JordanN
Banned
And I've countered each and every one of them saying it would help.
Why the denial of specs when evidence is right before your very eyes is a mystery to me.
velvet_nitemare
Member
Can you dig up something similar for western devs?
With nothing of substance. Cutting edge tech just isn't their focus at the moment. You can disagree with that, but it doesn't change the fact that they don't insist on strong arming their way into your living room.
Sony and MS are way bigger companies than Ninty, with way more sources of revenue too. They (Ninty) can not simply afford to sink money into that stuff just to appease a very small demographic that might not even get their products in the end.
I'm pretty sure I got it. It's just a statement that was made over a year ago back when the hardware was "still changing" means very little and considering what we have now, it's a bit more harder to develop for than people expected.
H_Prestige
Banned
Again with this myth of "more power = more losses!"
PS4 and 720 will not be bleeding money. Vita is not bleeding money.
You wanna know which console right now is bleeding money and will continue to bleed money for a long time? The Wii U. But I'm sure this is all part of Nintendo's brilliant plan.
JordanN
Banned
Read every one of one my posts in this thread and still try and say that instead of making a blanket statement.
Sony and MS are way bigger companies than Ninty, with way more sources of revenue too. They (Ninty) can not simply afford to sink money into that stuff just to appease a very small demographic that might not even get their products in the end.
So we're back to my original point.
Which is, as long as Nintendo continues to stay in business and make good games, whether they make the less powerful console isn't a huge deal. It's not, as you suggest, so degrading that they might as well not even bother.
You should have the ability to not let it bother you as much as it does. And at the very least, you should understand why other people would just rather play the games than be upset by them.
metalslimer
Member
I could buy this conservative Nintendo idea if they released a nice 250 dollar system that made a nice profit. They released a 350 (the one most people want) that is losing enough money to wipe out the 3ds profit this year and is going to hurt them tremendously with a pricecut.
Nintendo can afford two PS3 sized level disasters and still have no debt with money in the bank. Nintendo being a company that has no money and is a myth. Actually at the peak of the wii Ninendo was worth more than Sony.
Nintendo can afford two PS3 sized level disasters and still have no debt with money in the bank. Nintendo being a company that has no money and is a myth. Actually at the peak of the wii Ninendo was worth more than Sony.
Razor's Edge has several bugs on Wii U, and I'm pretty sure the performance issues are a bug as well - possibly related to a badly implemented audio engine.
Look I'm not here to say that the Wii U was the right decision. But if it end up working out for them, I'm not upset.
JordanN
Banned
I need direct evidence that says Nintendo in their entire capacity can never afford to make a console with high powered specs, ever. Sony and MS bleeding money doesn't do much to change this.
The tech is not 7-8 years old by any stretch. 2 I might give you but even then I'm hesitant.
Nintendo basically thought "We can't compete with a straight "traditional" top end console and selling at a price we want to hit, making money at the pace we want, especially given the third party support we never get". Hence, Nintendo try and do something different which I applaud them for. I just wish they did higher end specs (Doesn't have to be PS4 level) AND innovation.
velvet_nitemare
Member
Welp, i don't see how the actual raw specs of the system caters to what western devs want to make. But that's just me.
How on earth did you miss various interviews with Iwata himself discussing this subject. If you're harping on this point and yet can't inform yourself to a certain extent don't bother.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Ninja Gaiden Z was just announced for ps3 and 360. So much for Nintendo's talk.
TheDrowningMan
Member
metalslimer
Member
The fact that they thought sliders were ever a good idea for the controller bothers me.
Hardly.
I think people are just blanking the Gamecube. The time they actually had a technologically on par system. They had more multiplatform support than ever. Did they get it all? No, but that's because Sony. Sony aren't going to cream the competition this time. All three could have had a nice and even-ish market share, and all three would have gotten everything.
You honestly believe that Sony isn't regretting their hardware decisions with the PS3? The system that lost them a billion or so dollars?
Nintendo only does video games. Yes they have a sizable war chest, but they cannot recoup losses from other divisions like MS or Sony can. One or two PS3 level disasters like that could severely hurt a small company like Nintendo.
Ninja Gaiden Z is by Spark. Team Ninja doesn't even exist anymore.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
Well when you're working on a game Nintendo are publishing, it's a little different, isn't it?
My point was that Nintendo did talk to devs.
The game also hasn't been announced for PS4, so I guess both Wii U and PS4 loose out if the game doesn't come to them.
metalslimer
Member
Sony went off the deep end with the PS3. They do not represent the costs in making a more technologically up to date system. You think MS is regretting the hundreds of illions they are making? Why is the 360 never brought up? MS made a powerful system at a decent initial loss but made a ton of money through the years with royalties,Live,etc and in the end it could outsell the Wii. Im not saying it would be best for nintendo but the Wiiu will end up costinf Nintendo billions in R&D and pricedrops. Probably more than a competitive system
Thing is, you're coming from the point of "they should've went to devs and asked for their dream-specs" which goes completely against the way they design all their stuff. Them asking for input means they did just that. They asked for suggestions based on what their design goal and concept was and adapted the feedback where it made sense for them. Not "oh people want more power? I guess we need to throw in more power then!" stuff.
Nintendo design philosophy still applies.
AZ Greg
Member
Iwata is the CEO, it is his job to maximize profits for the shareholders. The profit they'd make from selling 100 million units of a box with 7 year old technology is a lot more than the profits they'd make from selling 100 million units of a box with current technology. Let's not pretend the route they took is simply because they don't have the means to get into an arms race or that they're just looking to give us gamers a unique experience.
Is it though? They still asked for input. That is all that we're talking about here. Besides, nobody knows at what point the publishing deal was made.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
Which is why they're fucked.
People weren't moaning about the 360 specs? Xbox 1.5?
Hell even now people are calling the Durango specs weak. It's clear that the type of people that visit forums wants monster consoles just as the PS3 was for its time. That in itself would be a terrible path for Nintendo to walk down.
People always blank GC and N64 out of discussions in that context cause it breaks the argument they are trying to make in regards to nintendo & tech.
What a bad way to phrase how they phrased it. They tried the arms race before and didn't like the results. Those experiences make them question whether pulling what sony and ms do is ever worth it which by all accounts of history on this subject point to a clear no.
They have the means but if they waste it all or half in one generation they will have no where else to go but gaming to get it back. If you want to ignore reality fine but it is what it is
Time will tell if it gets ports. That's what I'm waiting to see before I decide whether I sell it. I'm not keeping a machine just for Zelda and Metroid any more; the Wii gen basically killed any Nintendo 'loyalty' (for want of a better word) I had.
There's a difference between having a 600 dollar console that's priced so high due to bluray + cell (and take losses right off the bat), and something that'd release for $300-$400 like the 360 at launch. Before you go saying "But MS had losses too!", remember that the majority of them were due to RROD and other repairs. The only reason the Wii U is priced the way it is is because of the Game Pad. They could have easily released the Wii U for 250 if it just used a Wii Remote or pro controller, and they could have made hardware that'd at least run the next gen engines and cost $350 (aka the same price the Wii U is now). Maybe it's just because I don't find much value in the Wii U's touch screen, but I think it would have been much better to release a Wii 2 that had competent hardware (note: does not have to be as crazy spec'd as the 720/PS4, just enough so it could have the potential to receive ports) and no Game Pad.
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