I would argue that many of Nintendo's AAA Wii games costed more than your average PS360 game.
Games like GTA or Ass Creed have crazy bloated budgets. That's what some believe is killing studios.
Kotaku: The Wii U Won't Be Getting Unreal Engine 4
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I would argue that many of Nintendo's AAA Wii games costed more than your average PS360 game.
Games like GTA or Ass Creed have crazy bloated budgets. That's what some believe is killing studios.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
You're entitled to argue whatever you like.
Those games make lots of money, they're not killing studios. The fifteen million dollar project is killing studios. Go hard or go home.
Yep, and it's a combination of management and dev tools non-reuse. With x86 and basically your standard PC GPU, developers will be able to reuse code a ton. Lots of optimized stuff to start with this time.
Is that a dismissal of what I said, or what?
I dont think we really disagree...
I don't think the difference is as big as you think it is.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
Well you said the exact opposite of what I think. Not really nowhere left to go is there. I don't have Nintendo's budgets for Galaxy and Mario Kart in front of me so no one can win this debate.
That's fair.
ViperVisor
Member
Survival of the fittest in healthy environments is fine. Plenty of resources like clean water, air, and sunlight.
The console biz is becoming more like a place experiencing nuclear winter/fallout, a poised lake, or a mountain nearing the tree line whatever analogy you like.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
Skyward Sword would be the outlier because its development lasted so long, but considering my understanding is a lot of that was experimentation with small teams, I do find it hard to believe it was a full scale 4 year project that would cost a considerable amount to make in relative terms. But as I said earlier, we have no way of knowing so best to drop it.
This is from bad decisions by publishers, not console owners forcing them in to making those decisions. Do I think everybody spending millions of dollars on average b-tier games with aspirations of being COD is sustainable? Probably not. But it's not the potential power of the machines that's to blame, it's the companies poor planning.
BigBadShamoo
Banned
I loled! this is awesome
gundamkyoukai
Member
Yep another reason why i looking forward to next gen is getting better looking games from small companies .
For eg Gust they made money this gen and they made mostly PS3 games with PS4 we can get even better looking ones and they don't have to put more money into it .
Which is another problem Wii U has small devs can use power in different ways compare to the big boys to save money .
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
The pace at which Nintendo have been developing Wii U games I'm not even sure a Retro game would be out this year at this point.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I think you may be right, but at the same time Nintendo tends to do well during the holidays with less expensive products. $400-500 PS4/Nextboxes will also have to deal with shortages so I could see the WiiU doing quite well throughout November and December.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I honestly think Nintendo's hubris made them believe that the hype + NintendoLand + NSMB would carry them into the Wii U's first summer and they never even considered what would happen if the system performed as terribly out of the gate as it has. Will make it really interesting to see what their Holiday 2013 lineup is like, if things will be rushed or if they will be forced to scramble and make Wind Waker HD their big holiday game.
It would be really dumb of them to make the WW remake their big holiday game, they need a new game not a remake. Also, WW is going to have some stiff competition since the Kingdom Hearts HD remake will be coming out around the same time.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Given the sales projections they set, I think that's pretty much inarguable. They also didn't count on how poorly they would message the system's name and functionality.
ViperVisor
Member
I don't blame the console buyers. The HD systems were good value. But at the time you could extrapolate the equation. Those consumers are gonna buy an approx # of games at an approx price.
You need to make sure that the revenue of the games sold is greater than the cost to produce all the consoles and games over a generation.
The makers of games, consoles producers and 3rd parties couldn't help themselves and the arms race made the margins very thin. It seems it is just the nature of things to squeeze till you are close to the brim as possible.
It is just the cost of doing that has risen and risen over time.
airmangataosenai
Member
Actually I'd say that they did a fantastic job of catering to Japanese devs, and it garnered them an unprecedented level of support at the beginning of this generation. Their marketing is probably the main factor which sunk them in Japan, plus perception based on the original Xbox.
as awesome as the N64 was... i kinda see the Wii U as that awkward in-between console that just isnt gaining ground.
people are saying its part of the "next-gen" and theyre half right. it is a gen8 console... but PS4/720 will then be Gen9 consoles.
in perspective its like this:
PS1 was released, then came N64, then came PS2/xbox... the N64 was more powerful than the ps1 but not even close to ps2/xbox.
this is THE EXACT same situation nintendo got themselves into
people are saying its part of the "next-gen" and theyre half right. it is a gen8 console... but PS4/720 will then be Gen9 consoles.
in perspective its like this:
PS1 was released, then came N64, then came PS2/xbox... the N64 was more powerful than the ps1 but not even close to ps2/xbox.
this is THE EXACT same situation nintendo got themselves into
Not even close. The N64 was competitive from day one both software and hardware wise.
H_Prestige
Banned
Sales numbers said otherwise.
You're thinking of the Dreamcast, not the N64.
no im thinking N64... in terms of generations... you had ps1 (32bit gen) then N64 (64bit gen) then PS2/xbox (and obviously dreamcast is included with these two in terms of what generation its part of, the 128bit gen)
this is how the Wii U is turning out to be, its obviously a gen above PS3/360 but a gen behind PS4/720
You're forgetting the gamecube.
not_so_special
Banned
you talk about people living on bubbles? seriously?
airmangataosenai
Member
I know, right? Gamecube and Xbox launched shortly after the recession in 2001, and of course NINE-FUCKING-ELEVEN!
People don't fully grasp how the entertainment industry isn't really affected by other economic indicators, and in fact actually tend to do better in hard times (Gone with the Wind, Avatar, GTA3, etc.). The only economic situation which would halt this would be the Apocalypse, not a period of weak economic growth.
I haven't seen a drop that bad since Wii U and Vita were abandoned by third part--Oh wait that's just happeningEven during its worst month in the US the PS3 still sold ~30,000 more units than the WiiU did during its worst month. And that was during the PS3's first summer! Unless the WiiU gets a drastic price cut then their upcoming summer #s are going to make the PS3 look like it was selling gangbusters.
And the PS3 was also never tracking like this...
Well, I am in the group of people who think all next gen consoles are going to sell as shitty as the Wii U.
in this analogy the gamecube would represent the Wii U-2
Dave Meltzer
Banned
N64 wasn't a gen ahead of PSX. The 64-bit thing didn't mean much in reality. It looked better than PSX, but not a generation better.
Dreamcast is that weird middle ground which is significantly better than PSX/Saturn/N64 but not PS2/Gamecube/Xbox quality.
googleplex
Member
No,your falling victim to a common misconception. There's nothing in the Wii that makes artist, animators and programmers charge less for their services.
I'm shocked that this thread has made it to 2600 posts...
This is true, but if you require less art and animation, that lowers your cost. HD development requires more assets, at higher resolution. This increases budgets.
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This is true, but if you require less art and animation, that lowers your cost. HD development requires more assets, at higher resolution. This increases budgets.
I'm shocked it took as long
Naked Prime
Member
2600
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Dead or Alive 2 says otherwise.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
Anything in HD is going to require more time and effort in terms of the assets in the game. Maybe in terms of straight up programming things are just as costly, I couldn't say.
Well Shenmue 2 looks better than the entire PS2 library to me, but there's always exceptions
Dave Meltzer
Banned
Double post
you sure showed me.
what's the point? Maybe I just don't think people who are willing to blindly regurgitated third-hand talking points are worth wasting much time writing long-winded posts to, because even if they bother to read it, it's not going to change anything.
Nothing says you're not worth my time like replying to them, huh?
Well you are right on one thing, you have no facts to dispute every thing i said since it comes from actual people who stated them. It's not just me making them up. So trying to take some kind of high horse "above it all" approach only makes you look foolish. And so yes what's the point indeed.
Okay, here's the quote you're butchering with regards to development costs
Tim Sweeney said:
perhaps you'd like to take a moment to examine the key difference between what he said and what you've been saying.
No I think they need to move on with another strategy and aim to fragment and totally disrupt the market.
Epic have no interest in Nintendo. They're aligned with MS and Sony's philosophies and business strategies.
If MS and Sony aren't successful neither will Epic. So it's within their interests to diss Nintendo.
Nintendo need to bite back in their own way.
"We'll pay them money to use their engine and work really hard to get it working on our system. That'll show em!"
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Not to mention a lot (most?) Dreamcast games were 480p native which was a huge jump over the low res so many PS2 games were rendered at. I got a VGA adapter and had my dreamcast hooked up to a monitor. Looked amazing.
JordanN
Banned
It actually did. Dreamcast version has anti-aliasing.
Although to be fair on PS2, the game was pushed out as incomplete.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
:lol
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