Margaret Thatcher has died

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Juicy Bob said:
Wish Spitting Image was still around these days.
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We really don't have the level of satire now we did in the 80's. We need Not the Nine O'Clock News, Spitting Image. We've got HIGNFY, but it's not what it once was.

Although that said, I'll certainly be watching on Friday.
 
In terms of how she got elected 3 times, it was really a case of there being no option for people who didn't want a return being ruled by the unions who had brought the country to a stand still. As destructive as Thatcher was, the majority of the population wasn't of the opinion that going backwards was a good idea, and there was no one in the middle ground (lib dems lol).

It's all changed now, we have nothing but middle ground options.
 
CyclopsRock said:
A huge amount of the damage caused by her policies were the result of subsidies by the last 30 years of governments, however. If the various hard industries had been allowed to slowly peter out over time, the communities affected by the closures of mines etc would not have found themselves with 75% unemployment overnight - a cyclic situation that's basically impossible to get out of. She should have phased it, but they should never have been in a position where unprofitable factories and mines were kept open for so long. I know there were some that were profitable, but they were few and far between. It didn't help that various industries were forced to use the produce from their fellow nationalised industries (which almost all had wildly higher prices than their international competitors).
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If she knew it was going to devastate communities, she should've eased the burden with appropriate levels of welfare.
ChenK said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19674838

This article explains the changes fairly factually, but its simplified and does not analyse it much.

The issue that many have with it, including myself, is that it allows private companies to bid for the most profitable parts of health care, and reap the profits, while NHS hospitals are lumbered with the procedures that aren't, and leave themselves financially at risk.

Many NHS hospitals are also now trying to attract private patients to fill that funding gap, which leads to fears of a two tier system between NHS and private patients.

Also many do fear that this is the first step to complete privatisation of the NHS, which is opposed due to fears that care will no longer be blind towards the income of the patient.
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Thanks.
 
mclem said:
We really don't have the level of satire now we did in the 80's. We need Not the Nine O'Clock News, Spitting Image. We've got HIGNFY, but it's not what it once was.

Although that said, I'll certainly be watching on Friday.
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They would never get cleared for broadcast today. Especially not on the beeb.
 
GRW810 said:
And what exactly did she do that deserves parties upon news of her death? Did she sign away our freedom? Did she slaughter her own people? Did she remove our freedom?
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You accused people of celebrating her death purely because she was a leader of the other party. This was wrong. You are now backpedalling furiously. I'm not saying they're right to hate her, but to put it in such simplistic terms is wrong.

GRW810 said:
If you consider she did something wrong, ask yourself whether she sat in a lair at night cackling to herself at the misfortune of the British people. No, she didn't. Leaders make tough decisions for various reasons. Some people support them, some people don't. Because she didn't appease you doesn't make her evil.
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How far do you take that? Because we can list a whole host of bad guys who thought they were doing the right thing. Realistically there aren't any of those demonically cackling, white-cat-stroking villains out there. Some are driven by pure selfishness, sure, but the Lenins, the Hitlers, the Bin Ladens of this world - just doing what they thought was right.
 
Been reading about her policies. Can't say I disagree with the closing of the mines and the neutering of the unions. A country as economically advanced and as small as the UK would have a hard time trying to maintain a profitable resources industry. In that sense, she showed great foresight. Though I have to agree that she should have done it in phases and enacted retraining programs to ease those miners into other jobs.
 
Kurtofan said:
The Daily Mail is the most popular paper, think about that.
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What's there to think about? If people agree with a right minded rag it must mean they are right minded surely?

Or are you trying to say left minded people inadvertently bought the wrong paper and had their minds washed then polluted with right propaganda as they were clearly stupid?
 
Arksy said:
I think saying that anyone who voted for her was heartless or stupid is the height of arrogance. She was clearly popular. The only reason she lost power was because she was deposed by her own party.
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You obviously have no clue about the British political/electoral system. Large parts of the UK didn't vote for the Conservatives, particularly Scotland, in the 80s but there was enough seats in southern/central England for her party to maintain power.
 
Wes said:
755675893.jpg


That typo.
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Who's on strike this time? :P
 
fenners said:
You obviously have no clue about the British political/electoral system. Large parts of the UK didn't vote for the Conservatives, particularly Scotland, in the 80s but there was enough seats in southern/central England for her party to maintain power.
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43.9% of total votes in 1979, with Labour winning 36.9% of the vote. (13.6m vs 11.5m).
42.4% of total votes in 1983, with Labour winning 27.6% of the vote. (13m vs 8.4m).

Looks like a large parts of the UK must've voted for her. Not sure what kind of clue I'm supposed to be getting about the UK system or why it's relevant to the proposition that she had a great deal of support.
 
8bit said:
Thatcher is indirectly responsible for Anonymous.
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She's indirectly responsible for a Japanese text board that would go on to catch the eye of some SomethingAwful users who decided to make their own knockoff of it? Wow.

EDIT: Oh how rude of me. RIP and what not.
 
ElyrionX said:
Been reading about her policies. Can't say I disagree with the closing of the mines and the neutering of the unions. A country as economically advanced and as small as the UK would have a hard time trying to maintain a profitable resources industry. In that sense, she showed great foresight. Though I have to agree that she should have done it in phases and enacted retraining programs to ease those miners into other jobs.
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the uk has vast vast coal reserves, we could have no problem whatsoever mainting a mining industry, even if it doesn't actually make a profit in itself the overall economic benefits to maintaining at least some decent level of mining would more than made up for the costs
 
Arksy said:
I thought private health care in the UK just plugged the gaps of the NHS rather than offer a complete health care solution in parallel?

I could very well be wrong but that was my impression. Will have to read up further.
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Private healthcare offers pretty much everything the NHS does. That said you'll probably be seen to by NHS doctors even if you go private. Also companies like BUPA refuse to cover people with preexisting conditions like in some random first-world country.

Seep said:
She fucked more miners than Saville could have ever hoped too.

Let's give her the same respect she gave the 96,their families and Liverpool.
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I love your pun.
 
Getting a little scared and confused with all these statuses, someone please tell me they havent stopped brewing thatchers

Facebook status's are great ey'
 
GoddyofAus said:
Having plenty of arse licker support in the House of Lords goes a long way to achieving that.
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General Election 1979

Conservative 13,697,923
Labour 11,532,218
Liberal 4,313,804


Genral Election 1983

Conservative 13,012,316
Labour 8,456,934
SDP Liberal Alliance 7,780,949


General Election 1987

Conservative 13,760,935
Labour 10,029,270
SDP Liberal Alliance 7,341,651

I am sorry but can one of you guys tell me who should have been the party in office?
 
frankie_baby said:
the uk has vast vast coal reserves, we could have no problem whatsoever mainting a mining industry, even if it doesn't actually make a profit in itself the overall economic benefits to maintaining at least some decent level of mining would more than made up for the costs
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So does the US, China, Australia, Indonesia and many other countries.

What economic benefits are you talking about?
 
Ghost said:
It's all changed now, we have nothing but middle ground options.
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Some would argue that in terms of parties who could actually be elected, you only have options on the far right and ever so slightly left of the far right. So job done for Thatcher then if that's the case.

What happened in the UK in the 80s can be compared to what happened in the US in the 50s and 60s. The true left was weeded out for good.

What Yanks and Poms call liberal these days really isn't anything close to it.
 
Ding-Ding said:
General Election 1979

Conservative 13,697,923
Labour 11,532,218
Liberal 4,313,804


Genral Election 1983

Conservative 13,012,316
Labour 8,456,934
SDP Liberal Alliance 7,780,949


General Election 1987

Conservative 13,760,935
Labour 10,029,270
SDP Liberal Alliance 7,341,651

I am sorry but can one of you guys tell me who should have been the party in office?
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Combine labour and sdp knock off a couple Mill for liberals.
 
We will have to listen to so called "libertarians" somehow justifying her destruction of lives and communities, because they don't give a fuck about liberty
 
Ding-Ding said:
General Election 1979

Conservative 13,697,923
Labour 11,532,218
Liberal 4,313,804


Genral Election 1983

Conservative 13,012,316
Labour 8,456,934
SDP Liberal Alliance 7,780,949


General Election 1987

Conservative 13,760,935
Labour 10,029,270
SDP Liberal Alliance 7,341,651

I am sorry but can one of you guys tell me who should have been the party in office?
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I console myself with the thought that more of us voted against her than for her. Sadly we just couldn't decide which alternative we preferred.
 
Arksy said:
43.9% of total votes in 1979, with Labour winning 36.9% of the vote. (13.6m vs 11.5m).
42.4% of total votes in 1983, with Labour winning 27.6% of the vote. (13m vs 8.4m).

Looks like a large parts of the UK must've voted for her. Not sure what kind of clue I'm supposed to be getting about the UK system or why it's relevant to the proposition that she had a great deal of support.
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You're missing the point. The Tories took power in 1979. Look at how these maps change over time. 79 is irrelevant - that's when she took power. It's period from 82 onwards where public opinion against her & her government's policies took hold. Labor in 83 was effectively unelectable & the opposition was arguing amongst itself (hi SDP! Hi Liberals!) so they couldn't realistically win. Look at the swing away from the Tories outside the south of England. You were told her support was largely regional & focused on the south of England & quoted me percentages. A raw percentage doesn't tell you anything about who voted for her. These maps do:

http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/mapr1983.html
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/mapr1987.html

Look at this swing: http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/swingplot87.html

mapr_1987.gif
 
Bleepey said:
Private healthcare offers pretty much everything the NHS does. That said you'll probably be seen to by NHS doctors even if you go private. Also companies like BUPA refuse to cover people with preexisting conditions like in some random first-world country.



I love your pun.
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Yeah. Thanks to you, Cumpkin Hubris and ChenK for filling me in. I don't proclaim to know everything and have been mistaken more than once in my life. Much better then the alternative of holier than thou ad hominem attacks I got.

One thing that continues to confuse me is that even wikipedia states that private health care offers a lesser set of treatments than the NHS.
 
Arksy said:
Still lagging behind other countries in terms of health care outcomes according to an OECD report.

The NHS is still an expensive, over bureaucratic system that needs to be streamlined.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...ng-best-health-care-systems-in-the-world.html

From the well-known left-leaning rag the Daily Telegraph*. The NHS is very efficient and just cos something is large does not mean it's inefficient, are you not familiar with economies of scale?

*it's very right wing.
 
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