Support NeoGAF

[Acorn]

Wait, Brixton still celebrated into the night? Briefly watched a webcam feed of George Square around midnight and it was virtually empty.

George Square at night goes slightly red light. Not many parties haha

 

[BGBW]

Interesting look at all the front pages from local and national papers.

Just a sample. The link has more.

 

[daviyoung]

Nice one Worcester!

 

[lazorexplosion]

Before Thatcher the country really was in dire shape. Stagnant growth and 25% inflation was eroding the economy, government finances were in such dire shape that the previous prime minister was forced to ask for a historically large IMF rescue package despite the crazy high tax rates and less than a year after the winter of discontent saw garbage pile up in the streets. Reform and strike regulation was urgently needed.

Bringing strong reformist leadership at a very difficult time makes merely being the first female prime minister look like a minor accomplishment.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Urgh. Knew this would happen. People accusing Brixton of being classless because of the party. This is why I hate that people think they can just come here and run the place's name in the mud knowing their own hometowns' reputations stay spotless.

To make it worse some people tried looting a charity shop of all things.

I'm having flashbacks to 2011! If you're going to loot, you should go for premium items:

 

[LukeTim]

Before Thatcher the country really was in dire shape. Stagnant growth and 25% inflation was eroding the economy, government finances were in such dire shape that the previous prime minister was forced to ask for a historically large IMF rescue package despite the crazy high tax rates and less than a year after the winter of discontent saw garbage pile up in the streets. Reform and strike regulation was urgently needed.

Bringing strong reformist leadership at a very difficult time makes merely being the first female prime minister look like a minor accomplishment.

It was in dire shape for everyone in the 70s, yes... but it was still in dire shape for the poorest when she left.

She did so much... and yet she failed to do anything to help those who needed her help the most.

 

[noffles]

Interesting look at all the front pages from local and national papers.

"THATCHER'S DEAD SPECIAL PULL OUT"

wow

 

[BGBW]

Ritzy looked depressing with a blank sign board (redograph) this morning. Apparently they broke a lot of the letters too.

 

[SKINNER!]

I can't tell whether The Sun's headline is playing it safe or taking the piss.

 

[LukeTim]

I can't tell whether The Sun's headline is playing it safe or taking the piss.

The Sun isn't intelligent enough to do either. They're just morons.

 

[travisbickle]

I wouldn't mind The Daily Mail headline "The Woman who Saved Britain" if they didn't call everyone who doesn't carry their ideology "the worst thing to happen to morals/decency/the world ever!!!!"

 

[BGBW]

Chucking letters around like nobody's business.

 

[Arksy]

Chucking letters around like nobody's business.

Some coppers were injured breaking these guys up. Horrible.

Not sure what you can expect, after all they are celebrating someone's passing in a tasteless manner.

 

[BGBW]

Even worse than I realised.

It's one thing to say you weren't a fan of her. It's another to come down to a town and vandalise it.

More pictures.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Kinda off-topic but I'm gonna take this opportunity to post this

Do you have a zip file of these images? they're solid gold.

 

[iapetus]

What about the hypocrisy of the left.

I don't think we need to pay any attention to you any more.

NeoGAF: <sounds of intelligent discussion>
Ding-Ding: Derp!
NeoGAF: What was that noise?
Ding-Ding: Sorry, I'm a cretin. Please ignore me.
NeoGAF: Okay!

I think that's a convincing argument.

 

[CyclopsRock]

teehee

 

[Arksy]

teehee

The Conservative party was once a great political party that used to talk about free markets and aspiration and personal responsibility. It's a pity what a mess it's become in recent years. Hope they sort themselves out.

 

[phaze]

T

This doesn't prove anything at all. Government spending in America is far higher than it was 40 years ago. Government spending /= Social Welfare.

Higher Redistribution of GDP/Public Spending is one of the main symptoms of a more social state. It is no coincidence that Sweden has one of the highest

And yes the second chart is after a decrease of spending as % of GDP.
In real terms it grew due to the economic growth.

Public spending in the United Kingdom has steadily increased from 12 percent of GDP in 1900 to 47 percent today.



Public Spending in the 20th century is dominated by the great exertions of the world wars. But peacetime expenditures show clear trends.

Prior to World War I, public spending sat at about 15 percent of GDP. Then, after the war it emerged at about 25 percent of GDP, and remained at about that level, except for a surge at the start of the depression in the 1930s.

After World War II, public spending consumed about 35 percent of GDP, and this level continued through the 1950s. At about 1960 expenditures began a steady rise that peaked in the early 1980s at 45 percent of GDP.

During the 1980s public spending was cut as a percent of GDP from about 45 percent down to 35 percent in 1989. But then, with the ERM sterling crisis and associated recession, it rose back to 40 percent of GDP before declining to 36 percent in 2000.

After 2000 public spending increased rapidly, with a peak of 47 percent of GDP expected in 2011 in the afermath of the financial crisis of 2008.

All am saying is that despite the talk of a major right wing swing that continues to this day, all Thatcher did was reduce the spending to the level of 1950's and even that was for a short time of her rule. (Basically last two years). Thatcher's Britain was more socialist than US ever was.
Britain now has much bigger level of spending comparable with 60's/70's so no they are not all Thacherites now

Except time and again it's been shown that your policies disproportionately benefit the rich, whether by intention or not, and you all never seem to acknowledge this fact.

*Caveat: Speaking from a US-perspective.

Seriously. How many decades of real world data does it take for you to realize that these right wing economic policies are shit for everyone who isn't rich? At a certain point it just becomes delusion.

Are the classical liberal right concerned with reducing GINI? With income inequality? With real class mobility? With stagnant personal income growth despite productivity increases? These do not come through in policy. If the aim is to benefit all, if the only difference is the means used to achieve the end, if the maximization of economic liberty is just incidentally the best road to lead to prosperity for all, then the presence of indicators that suggest the end has failed should cause a re-evaluation of the relationship, not a casual shrug and a renewed emphasis to the means.

The income inequality increased in all developed countries, even in Sweden (more than in UK or US actually,) which never went the Thatcher route. (I was surprised as well.)


http://www.oecd.org/sweden/49564868.pdf

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_857057.html

 

[LukeTim]

The Conservative party was once a great political party that used to talk about free markets and aspiration and personal responsibility. It's a pity what a mess it's become in recent years. Hope they sort themselves out.

I wouldn't consider any of those things great.

Since Thatcher adopted it from US Conservatism, The Conservatives have had too much emphasis on individuals and their aspiration. One of the reasons I despise them.

Individualism is nonsense. Nobody does anything alone.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Is it a State Funeral then? Sigh

 

[CyclopsRock]

I wouldn't consider any of those things great.

Since Thatcher adopted it from US Conservatism, The Conservatives have had too much emphasis on individuals and their aspiration. One of the reasons I despise them.

Individualism is nonsense. Nobody does anything alone.

You're right, they don't. I don't work on my own. I work with my colleagues. We produce work together than none of us could have produced alone. And we do it all without being forced to, because it benefits us to do it that way. Maybe no one does anything on their own, but that's not what the allure of the "individual" as a political entity is.

 

[Delusibeta]

That was to another poster saying we'd go bankrupt.

I stand by my statement, I think the SNP is vastly overestimating the revenue from North Sea oil, plus I'd expect most of the financial industry to relocate to south of the border on independance.

 

[Arksy]

I wouldn't consider any of those things great.

Since Thatcher adopted it from US Conservatism, The Conservatives have had too much emphasis on individuals and their aspiration. One of the reasons I despise them.

Individualism is nonsense. Nobody does anything alone.

Individualism is about choice. Things like personal rights as opposed to collective rights are a bastion of the individualist cause and I wouldn't call personal freedoms, to religion, to speech, to assemble, nonsense.

 

[radioheadrule83]

teehee

Didn't he go to grammar school and only move to Brixton when he was about 12?

 

[CyclopsRock]

Didn't he go to grammar school and only move to Brixton when he was about 12?

Not a clue, very possible. Grammar School is hardly mutually exclusive from working class though.

 

[SmokyDave]

Urgh. Knew this would happen. People accusing Brixton of being classless because of the party. This is why I hate that people think they can just come here and run the place's name in the mud knowing their own hometowns' reputations stay spotless.

To make it worse some people tried looting a charity shop of all things.

Even worse than I realised.

It's one thing to say you weren't a fan of her. It's another to come down to a town and vandalise it.

Why are you so convinced that it's people from outside the area?

 

[radioheadrule83]

Not a clue, very possible. Grammar School is hardly mutually exclusive from working class though.

The public school system is definitely markedly changed since the days of grammar schools though. There is a definite post code lottery in education, a fortuity in it as powerful as someone's parentage or their regional upbringing that can affect every aspect of their life. I personally find the suggestion that working class kids can aspire to be Prime Minister absolutely laughable given the current crop of well educated PR spin-doctors heading up each of the major parties.

Every Prime Minister from the late 60s to 1997 attended a reputed grammar school. Only one university-educated Prime Minister did not go to either Oxford or Cambridge -- and that was Gordon Brown. We have a bunch of old Etonians in government and an opposition within which over a third went to those universities as well. Everybody in the last Labour leadership contest did.

I find John Major to be quite affable btw, in hindsight I find the old grey caricature quite cruel

 

[Ding-Ding]

I don't think we need to pay any attention to you any more.

NeoGAF: <sounds of intelligent discussion>
Ding-Ding: Derp!
NeoGAF: What was that noise?
Ding-Ding: Sorry, I'm a cretin. Please ignore me.
NeoGAF: Okay!

I think that's a convincing argument.

I was just taking the piss about someone elses crack about today's society being a right wing's wet dream.

If you find that offensive to the point of personally name calling, then I feel sorry that you are too narrow minded to have a debate.

The simple truth is that the socialist movement, while preaching equality, do so by playing on people's jealousies. Unfortunately, some people end up believing that the definition of rich is anyone else higher than them on the food chain.

Like it on not, things like the London riots are a by-product of the socialist movement. They are Labours legacy

 

[LukeTim]

Individualism is about choice. Things like personal rights as opposed to collective rights are a bastion of the individualist cause and I wouldn't call personal freedoms, to religion, to speech, to assemble, nonsense.

Perhaps nonsense was not the right word.

I do not believe that there is such a thing as free will. I am skeptical as to whether there is even such a thing as an individual (obviously, physically we are all apart, but I mean that in a different way). I see society as a way evolution has 'found' to connect minds to form a single 'meta-mind'.

I probably sound crazy to you... but that's the way I see it.

 

[Arksy]

The public school system is definitely markedly changed since the days of grammar schools though. There is a definite post code lottery in education, a fortuity in it as powerful as someone's parentage or their regional upbringing that can affect every aspect of their life. I personally find the suggestion that working class kids can aspire to be Prime Minister absolutely laughable given the current crop of well educated PR spin-doctors heading up each of the major parties.

Every Prime Minister from the late 60s to 1997 attended a reputed grammar school. Only one university-educated Prime Minister did not go to either Oxford or Cambridge -- and that was Gordon Brown. We have a bunch of old Etonians in government and an opposition within which over a third went to those universities as well. Everybody in the last Labour leadership contest did.

I find John Major to be quite affable btw, in hindsight I find the old grey caricature quite cruel

I heard a statistic that the top 8 schools send more students to Oxford and Cambrige than the next thousand combined.

 

[danwarb]

I heard a statistic that the top 8 schools send more students to Oxford and Cambrige than the next thousand combined.

So it's not what you know...

Does the name of your school add more weight to an application?

 

[CyclopsRock]

The public school system is definitely markedly changed since the days of grammar schools though. There is a definite post code lottery in education, a fortuity in it as powerful as someone's parentage or their regional upbringing that can affect every aspect of their life. I personally find the suggestion that working class kids can aspire to be Prime Minister absolutely laughable given the current crop of well educated PR spin-doctors heading up each of the major parties.

Every Prime Minister from the late 60s to 1997 attended a reputed grammar school. Only one university-educated Prime Minister did not go to either Oxford or Cambridge -- and that was Gordon Brown. We have a bunch of old Etonians in government and an opposition within which over a third went to those universities as well. Everybody in the last Labour leadership contest did.

I find John Major to be quite affable btw, in hindsight I find the old grey caricature quite cruel

I think his forrays into post-PM politics are rare enough that he has some gravitas when he does. He's relatively well respected, I think, though that could just be a result of his not being Thatcher, I'm not sure.

I agree with you, though. I think Academies are a definite step forward though. Some of the work that the city academies did under Labour was fantastic, they really did turn some schools around in a big, big way. I think, though, that what they proved is that you can turn schools around with the right management (and funding, of course, but it's not just that - our spending on education rocketed during the Labour years, but the evidence that they were getting significantly better was not forthcoming).

 

[War Peaceman]

The public school system is definitely markedly changed since the days of grammar schools though. There is a definite post code lottery in education, a fortuity in it as powerful as someone's parentage or their regional upbringing that can affect every aspect of their life. I personally find the suggestion that working class kids can aspire to be Prime Minister absolutely laughable given the current crop of well educated PR spin-doctors heading up each of the major parties.

Every Prime Minister from the late 60s to 1997 attended a reputed grammar school. Only one university-educated Prime Minister did not go to either Oxford or Cambridge -- and that was Gordon Brown. We have a bunch of old Etonians in government and an opposition within which over a third went to those universities as well. Everybody in the last Labour leadership contest did.

I find John Major to be quite affable btw, in hindsight I find the old grey caricature quite cruel

You do know that Major didn't even go to University, right? Also grammar schools aren't the same as Eton/independent and preparatory schools.

 

[CyclopsRock]

So it's not what you know...

Does the name of your school add more weight to an application?

In their defence, I imagine the top 8 private schools also offer a pretty amazing education, too. I don't doubt that doors are opened with regards to EC's, volunteering in convenient places etc, but I think that generally that enables them to be the best candidates, rather than getting in despite not being the best candidates.

 

[iapetus]

I was just taking the piss about someone elses crack about today's society being a right wing's wet dream.

And I was just taking the piss about your shitty straw man post. Sorry you're too incapable of debating to have a debate.

 

[Deaf Spacker]

Has The Daily Mail started a campaign for Thatcher to get a state funeral?

 

[BGBW]

Why are you so convinced that it's people from outside the area?

Because it usually always is. The infamous Brixton riots were made up of people not from the local area, the summer riots from a few years back the same. Not saying some people in the crowds couldn't be from Brixton (It was apparently organised by the Brixton Socialist Workers’ Party (so big I've never heard of them)) but I'm sure the majority weren't. The media always reports negative news from South London as a Brixton thing even if it happened in Clapham. It's got a negative name so people don't think twice are tarnishing it.

The community has tried to tackle this image problem so the last thing they'd do is damage their own cinema. The obvious reason Brixton was chosen is it's easy to get there and it's a red blob in a blue ocean.

Here's a photo of the protestor all going towards the station. If they lived here surely they wouldn't need to catch a train. Even our local MP thinks the same.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Divide and conquer never fails to work.

The political class learnt and mastered it during empire, they've been using it on us ever since.

 

[Arksy]

Has The Daily Mail started a campaign for Thatcher to get a state funeral?

A petition, yeah.

 

[Deaf Spacker]

A petition, yeah.

Oh god, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

 

[Arksy]

In their defence, I imagine the top 8 private schools also offer a pretty amazing education, too. I don't doubt that doors are opened with regards to EC's, volunteering in convenient places etc, but I think that generally that enables them to be the best candidates, rather than getting in despite not being the best candidates.

This is exactly right. They do provide a great education, but it comes at a high cost. So with normal comprehensive schools not being up to the cut, poor people are being disproportionately disadvantaged.

 

[Jackpot]

The Metro's coverage was pretty hagiographic this morning.

 

[frankie_baby]

I'm guessing you think democracy is a good thing as long as stuff only happens with it that you agree with?

I'm getting that vibe.



Mandela plotted a bombing campaign against a government, now does that make him a freedom fighter or a terrorist? The IRA were classed as terrorists to the majority, but to the few they were freedom fighters doing just work.....

While the principal of a free press is great in practice it bastardises the democratic process allowing rich people to influence the masses, as ive said elsewhere our current political system doesnt fit with our current multi party system

 

[Ding-Ding]

And I was just taking the piss about your shitty straw man post. Sorry you're too incapable of debating to have a debate.

Says the man who right now had to single out just one line in what I wrote, because he lacks either the knowledge or the debating skill to answer the rest.

 

[CyclopsRock]

While the principal of a free press is great in practice it bastardises the democratic process allowing rich people to influence the msses

The alternative is a press that isn't free. Who do you trust not to use that power to "influence the masses"?

 

[frankie_baby]

The alternative is a press that isn't free. Who do you trust not to use that power to "influence the masses"?

Its a very difficult one and to be honest I don't know

 

[Arksy]

Its a very difficult one and to be honest I don't know

Come on. The Internet, Youtube and other mass media are simply wonderful tools that allow grassroots movements to take hold of the political system. Rich people still hold considerable influence but it's a lot better now than it used to be, thanks to the internet.

 

[Nicktendo86]

This is quite an interesting read about the relationship (or lack of) between Liverpool and Thatcher. Paints a slightly different light on it...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-22073199

 

[frankie_baby]

Come on. The Internet, Youtube and other mass media are simply wonderful tools that allow grassroots movements to take hold of the political system. Rich people still hold considerable influence but it's a lot better now than it used to be, thanks to the internet.

I don't deny that and agree things are getting better but newspapers still distort the truth and stupid people take their lies and opinions as fact