Boss Man
Member
Where is this game?Does the new South Park game count? Is it Cell Shading?
Next gen cel shading: will games finally look like cartoons/anime?
- Thread starter Canis lupus
- Start date
Aku no Hana.
More like you need to change to an AMD GPU:
videogames still have a long ways to go...
The joke is that the picture on the left is the manga character design.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
)Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Watch the actual animation instead of stills.
I think you can get super close to getting games looking like real cartoons in screenshots; having really smooth outlines and super high polygon counts and just honing the tech till it's amazing. The thing that will let it down though is motion. A character model will look much too smooth turning its head for instance. In a cartoon or anime, that character is redrawn every frame, and the slight discrepancies in drawings will always give 2d animation a magic that the 3d models just won't be able to touch. I think that is a major factor and unless programmers come up with some incredible tech that subtly distorts proportions just for the sake of making it look like a cartoon, no 
Short Answer: No.
Long answer:
Cell shading will never look 100% like 2D animation. 2D animation looks the way it does because of it's inaccuracies when it comes to three dimensional representation and shading. Because cell shaded 3D animation is still 3D animation, it has no such accuracy "issues" so it just looks different. Admittedly Cyber Connect did a pretty good job with Naruto in order to try an emulate some inaccuracy in it's shading but the game still "suffers" from accurate perspective which is how you can still very easily tell it's 3D.
At this stage it's not a processing power issue, it's fundamental to the technique. Case in point, even pre-rendered Cell Shading is still easily identified as 3D.
Long answer:
Cell shading will never look 100% like 2D animation. 2D animation looks the way it does because of it's inaccuracies when it comes to three dimensional representation and shading. Because cell shaded 3D animation is still 3D animation, it has no such accuracy "issues" so it just looks different. Admittedly Cyber Connect did a pretty good job with Naruto in order to try an emulate some inaccuracy in it's shading but the game still "suffers" from accurate perspective which is how you can still very easily tell it's 3D.
At this stage it's not a processing power issue, it's fundamental to the technique. Case in point, even pre-rendered Cell Shading is still easily identified as 3D.
JordanN
Banned
Are people serious? Cartoons and [3d] video games are two polar opposites.
Spring-Loaded
Member
I replaced that with actual clips; didn't know it was just a slideshow
Huff...huff...!
This is the worst evolution of fighting games I could ever imagine.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
That's single player.
KojiKnight
Member
Watch the video clips of it... it's just hand drawn sprites on a 3D world, not the same thing.
I like watching people post pictures/Gifs from anime games and saying they are close. There is no way in a million years anyone is going to be fooled into thinking those in-game scenes are from a traditionally animated anime.
Show anyone who's played Bleach an in-game shot from the video games and see how many people believe that you grabbed a random shot of the show. It's not happening, but THAT is what the end goal should be.
MegaKungFuRadio
Member
I thought the engine stuff in Catherine looked better than the animated stuff, but they were completely different styles. Ni no Kuni was pretty damn close.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
rosaceadude2112
Member
Still a lot more visually interesting than anything else I've seen from the show. Not a particularly high bar but whaddyagonnado
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Nope.
This is what a punch looks like in stills. The animator was playing with this effect. I wish 3d fighting games pushed the animation like this more. Fight Night was awesome in this respect.
http://vimeo.com/1675008
Oh man. Loved that part. Loved that animation. Loved that episode. Was freaking out in the school library. Looked like a darn fool.
I'm not saying they're 1:1 identical, I'm not daft. But considering that it is a 3D video game meant to emulate the look of 2D animation, yeah, I think it looks pretty close.
KojiKnight
Member
I don't think anyone is saying it doesn't look good, but you can't say "pretty close" (imo of course) if no in-game shot could ever be confused with footage from the actual show. Remove the HUD and place a still in front of a fan of the show. If it takes them more than a second or two to tell you the style doesn't match the show I'd be very surprised.
Depends on why they're not confused, though. If it's a 3D vs 2D issue then you wouldn't be using that metric to say they don't look pretty close because, inherently, they wouldn't.
They'll know something is wrong when the characters actually look like they're supposed to, and not a blobby off model drawing.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
We're not asking for it to be 100 percent. (impossible)
We just want an evolution of Wind Waker and Naruto.
Let's see some different styles, lets get more complex with the characters
Unfortunately since only one company is really pushing it, it's gonna be awhile.
Aku no Hana.
More like you need to change to an AMD GPU:
The joke is that the picture on the left is the manga character design.
Right picture looks like a dude with a wig on.
Also, the new Atelier game for PS3 looks great:
Ultimate Ninja Storm looks better than the show.
edit: by request
They should use this engine to produce the Anime imo
None of which will look like cartoons or anime. Which is, you know, the question in the title of the thread.
GuitarAtomik
Member
This
And this
We can pretty much already do something like in the OP but it will look "off" unless it runs at 24fps like 2D animation is supposed to. I think most anime actually runs at 12. You would also have to go out of your way to distort the models to mimic the imperfections or else your brain will still probably fill it in too welll (giving it a 3D look) even at the low framerates.
And this
We can pretty much already do something like in the OP but it will look "off" unless it runs at 24fps like 2D animation is supposed to. I think most anime actually runs at 12. You would also have to go out of your way to distort the models to mimic the imperfections or else your brain will still probably fill it in too welll (giving it a 3D look) even at the low framerates.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
It is very pretty though
JordanN
Banned
It's not really emulating though. It's still still 3D with all the work being processed by consoles.
Not the same as something drawn under the limitations of man.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
dude Anime is more than Naruto. (even more than Bebop)
and how can you say what the evolution of Windwaker and Naruto's cel shading graphics look like when it hasn't happened yet?
Think of Naruto or Wind Waker as Metal Gear Solid 3. I want to see MGSV level cel shading.
I want some advancements
EDIT: When I say get more complex with the characters, I'm talking the style of the characters.
Games like Windwaker and the simple plain style of Naruto lends itself fairly well to cel shading as it exists today.
Styles like Cowboy Bebop or Ninja Scroll where the characters are more proportional are alot harder to do
I atleast want to get something in between with the PS4
WrenchNinja
Member
I thought I had both of those things. I guess I cannot view that episodes' animation in a bubble when everything is off-model, the choreography isn't very good nor is it representative of what happens in the manga. It makes a vicious and depressing fight into a comedy.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I thought Paperman was 2D at first until I read after viewing that it was 3D. I wouldn't say it's impossible considering no one knows what kinds of technologies will be developed in the future.
Apocryphon
Member
I don't think there's any reason why not. I suppose it's a matter of approach more than anything.
I just wish more games had better art direction.
I just wish more games had better art direction.
The 3DS Crayon Shinchan game has the looks down pretty much perfect.
You'll never have the look because if you want it you're going to have to get 24fps games with animation that oftentimes go at half that. Will it eventually be possible? Certainly, but you're going to have the playability equal to that of another old animated game: Dragon's Lair.
You'll never have the look because if you want it you're going to have to get 24fps games with animation that oftentimes go at half that. Will it eventually be possible? Certainly, but you're going to have the playability equal to that of another old animated game: Dragon's Lair.
WrenchNinja
Member
This seems much better in the Valley of the End fight episode 133. Naruto punches Sasuke in the face, his face goes inward, he flips several times, lands and begins rolling and clutching his face in pain.
In UNS3, Naruto punches Sasukes face and everything slows down as his fist is pushing his face, Sasuke is reeling back, and the whole scene goes black and white just during that instant.
Those seem like much better examples of showing force and impact without the use of wonky models.
OT, but I would totally double dip on a blu-ray version of the series if it ever makes it stateside.would love to see cel shading reach this level
JordanN
Banned
Why do we still have hand drawn cartoons instead of everything being made with a console?
Tummi Gummi
Member
I hope some games at least try to push things in that direction. Not a fan of anime but I do like seeing experimentation with unusual art styles in computer graphics.
Callibretto
Member
This is what a punch looks like in stills. The animator was playing with this effect. I wish 3d fighting games pushed the animation like this more. Fight Night was awesome in this respect.
http://vimeo.com/1675008
I'm aware of what they're trying to achieve. I still think they did a poor job at it
XANDER CAGE
Member
That's probably it. Some parts of 167 look similar to this scene in Birdy.
Not the exact moment I'm looking for, but I can't find a .gif of her face getting all fluid in another shot.
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