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Stock-Age: Stocks, Options and Dividends oh my!

P

Piecake

Member
Soka said:
Hard to answer that without knowing what your long-term plans are; most importantly, what would you do with the profits if you were to sell now? Just sit them in your bank account, or spend them, or re-invest them elsewhere? If elsewhere, what do you think is more worthwhile of an investment?

Also, for me... I lost 3% from my portfolio today. Largest drop I've ever had in a single day I believe. Ah, the stock market.
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I lost about that as well and really didnt care. Thats the great thing about investing for the long term. Day to day fluctuations dont matter at all
 
T

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
Ether_Snake said:
Gold collapse starting now!

It's the bubbles and mania pattern, and the bull trap is over. Heading down now.

Kept some money aside, will buy back when the fear and panic phases are over:)
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itsHappening.gif

2013: The year of sanity. Apple and Gold are hitting the wall of reality.
 
S

Septimius

Junior Member
Septimius said:
It looks like we've seen a major top. Looks like some variation of the shoulder-head top, and it should not be disregarded. On the first top that came around April '12, we saw increased volume, which is to suggest that the stocks are switching from strong hands to weaker hands - the general public has latched on to this stock like crazy the last year. The second top that came around September was on slightly lower volume, which adds up when it comes to a shoulder-head-shoulder formation. I'm not so discerned by the lack of a right shoulder, because everything else adds up. The neckline seems to be slightly downward, which is the sign of poor technical support. What we might see now is a rally up to the neckline, at around 500 after we were down too quickly towards the support at around 420-425, but without a serious break of the neckline, even a rally up is nothing major. A rally after its recent rapid decline is not surprising. If it does manage to break the current downward trend, you can be tentative again.

If the stock breaks the support at around 420-425, everyone should get out of dodge, as it is likely the last sign that this was a major top, and we'll even be closing in on the 200 day moving average.

The rally might continue for some days, but be concerned. It's still not a good sign.
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This was fun! Two and a half months ago, and I have barely been following the stock lately, but today I see it broke the support at ~420, and we're down 5%.
 
R

RevoDS

Junior Member
This thing seems to want to get back to its all-time highs near $300...just look at that run! NFLX was at $55 in October, just 7 months ago.

I almost bought it around those $55-60 levels, but I decided against it, thinking it was still a wee bit too expensive...
 
O

Onion_Relish

Member
Netflix is so bubblicious. Way too rich for my blood regardless of how good or bad the stock is. My girlfriend is nagging me now because she's read the reports that google is heading back to 900 bucks and some big shot investor her dad knows is going balls deep in it. I think I could buy about 8 shares in google lol.

Edit: Speaking of exploding, square enix just shot through the roof. Up 15%. They were below 1000 yen a month ago now up to 1250...
 
E

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
WTF happened at 1pm? Supposedly a Tweet corrected the weird ass plunge??
 
E

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
Soka said:
The Associated Press's Twitter was hacked with a message sent out saying something along the lines of "two explosions at White House, Obama injured."
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Wow, and that caused markets to tank that quickly?? Bet a lot of stuff got sold on stop orders. I guess it shows how much it's all automated. No way it would have fallen so quickly and come back exactly where it was a moment ago without most transactions being automated, also probably handled by a just a few institutions.
 
G

gcubed

Member
question to people smarter then me.

I have options for stock at 13-20 that is currently at 41. Is there any reason not to convert it to stock (to get dividends as well as start the clock on long term holdings)?

I see no reason to continue holding them as options, but i know little about all this stuff.
 
S

Sanky Panky

Banned
gcubed said:
question to people smarter then me.

I have options for stock at 13-20 that is currently at 41. Is there any reason not to convert it to stock (to get dividends as well as start the clock on long term holdings)?

I see no reason to continue holding them as options, but i know little about all this stuff.
Click to expand...

Do you have the cash to buy the stock?

There is really not much difference in holding the options until expiration, because the options will be affected by the value of the underlying, which in turn will be affected by dividends declared. I'm assuming it is your employer stock? If you do want to keep that stock, you can convert it at any time. If you expect the price to go down, and if there are no restrictions, sell the options and cash out. There will be tax to be paid now, instead of when you sell the stocks later.
 
G

gcubed

Member
Sanky Panky said:
Do you have the cash to buy the stock?

There is really not much difference in holding the options until expiration, because the options will be affected by the value of the underlying, which in turn will be affected by dividends declared. I'm assuming it is your employer stock? If you do want to keep that stock, you can convert it at any time. If you expect the price to go down, and if there are no restrictions, sell the options and cash out. There will be tax to be paid now, instead of when you sell the stocks later.
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the options are worth enough that i dont need to front anything, can do it cashless with no fees through my company benefits site. My plan would be to hold the stock for a while, the company has done very well and continues to do so.

They are NQSO's so it would be taxed as income on conversion and then again when i sell (assuming they are higher then when i converted), correct?
 
J

Josh7289

Member
Hey everyone. I'm trying to understand this stuff, and have some fundamental questions. So when a company goes public, it offers shares of itself on the market. When people buy those shares, the company receives that money. But then after that, people just trade those shares amongst each other; so at that point, what's the benefit to the company anymore? Is there none?
 
Z

zou

Member
Large Professor said:
Do you mean long term calls are too cheap? I think so too.
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ya. they are especially ridiculous for stocks with low vol. For example, bought Jan 2014 $35 calls for 0.18 when MDLZ was around 29. Makes no sense whatsoever. Though I guess I'm not too surprised, given that there is no way to actully price american style options. And common sense obviously is in short supply ;)
 
Z

zou

Member
gcubed said:
the options are worth enough that i dont need to front anything, can do it cashless with no fees through my company benefits site. My plan would be to hold the stock for a while, the company has done very well and continues to do so.

They are NQSO's so it would be taxed as income on conversion and then again when i sell (assuming they are higher then when i converted), correct?
Click to expand...

I usually just trade the options, assuming there's a decent time premium.

Edit: are these regular options or part of your compensation
 
G

gcubed

Member
zou said:
I usually just trade the options, assuming there's a decent time premium.

Edit: are these regular options or part of your compensation
Click to expand...

man, this thread doesn't show up in my CP.

They are NQSO's that i get once a year as part of my compensation. They get taxed as salary when exercised.
 
Z

zou

Member
gcubed said:
man, this thread doesn't show up in my CP.

They are NQSO's that i get once a year as part of my compensation. They get taxed as salary when exercised.
Click to expand...

In that case, if there's a decent gain already and if you think there is further upside to the stock I would probably just exercise them now. Depending on your tax bracket and state taxes you might lose almost half of any potential gains just to taxes. Also, if the company pays dividends that might also be another reason to exercise early.

Oh and you also have the possibility to sell those shares in order to balance your portfolio.

Though a bit hard to say without knowing the strike and share prices.
 
G

Gallbaro

Banned
He He..

My biggest competitor, and very direct competitor, is going under!

NASDAQ: UNTK
chart
 
F

Flo_Evans

Member
Stupid question time:

I want to rebalance my IRA portfolio/change some shit around (to lower cost index funds).

What kind of fees am I looking at when doing exchanges? I am trying to figure out if it would be better to just hold on to the old funds and put all future allocations in what I want or if I can move them around without much penalty. I am trying to find this info on the fund website but it seems intentionally vague.
 
G

gcubed

Member
zou said:
In that case, if there's a decent gain already and if you think there is further upside to the stock I would probably just exercise them now. Depending on your tax bracket and state taxes you might lose almost half of any potential gains just to taxes. Also, if the company pays dividends that might also be another reason to exercise early.

Oh and you also have the possibility to sell those shares in order to balance your portfolio.

Though a bit hard to say without knowing the strike and share prices.
Click to expand...

company does pay dividends, which is why i thought about exercising them. Option prices were ranging from 13-24 with the current share price at 41.25

yeah, modeling them does hurt when i see how many disappear for taxes.
 
L

Large Professor

Member
zou said:
ya. they are especially ridiculous for stocks with low vol. For example, bought Jan 2014 $35 calls for 0.18 when MDLZ was around 29. Makes no sense whatsoever. Though I guess I'm not too surprised, given that there is no way to actully price american style options. And common sense obviously is in short supply ;)
Click to expand...

That's funny because I also own MDLZ calls.
 
E

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
Canada-GAF: Anyone knows how to transfer a net loss from a previous year to reduce taxable capital gains?
 
S

Sanky Panky

Banned
Soka said:
Is there any downside I should be aware of to selling off my non-tax sheltered investments, using that money to cover bills/cost-of-living, and to compensate for that, increase my 401k investment to its maximum (50% of my pre-tax paycheck, with 6% being match). This is a hypothetical/potential situation that may come up in my near future, and I'm just wondering if it's worth paying the capital gains tax on my current investments to essentially use that money to allow me to invest more heavily in my future 401k. My overall amount I invest wouldn't be going up too much, I'd just be "moving" non-tax sheltered assets to my 401k which would lower my annual income tax. Any thoughts?

Obviously, I'll assuredly be at least matching the 6%. Maybe I'd need to do the math on the tax benefits of putting 50% in as opposed to the hit for my capital gains tax.
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When you say non-tax sheltered investments, do you mean a tax exempt that will pay no taxes ever again? if so, I would keep the assets there depending on where you live. In the US, with interest/dividend income being taxed higher, I would allocate those income producing assets to that account.

For the 401K, it's a tax-deferred account, and it makes sense if your tax rate at retirement is less than your current tax rate. Since you are deferring taxes until later, you can allocate your faster growing assets to this account. At minimum, you SHOULD be contributing at least 6% of your salary.

I guess in the end, without more details, there is room for both in your overall portfolio.
 
greyshark

greyshark

Member
Soka said:
Is there any downside I should be aware of to selling off my non-tax sheltered investments, using that money to cover bills/cost-of-living, and to compensate for that, increase my 401k investment to its maximum (50% of my pre-tax paycheck, with 6% being match). This is a hypothetical/potential situation that may come up in my near future, and I'm just wondering if it's worth paying the capital gains tax on my current investments to essentially use that money to allow me to invest more heavily in my future 401k. My overall amount I invest wouldn't be going up too much, I'd just be "moving" non-tax sheltered assets to my 401k which would lower my annual income tax. Any thoughts?

Obviously, I'll assuredly be at least matching the 6%. Maybe I'd need to do the math on the tax benefits of putting 50% in as opposed to the hit for my capital gains tax.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind there is a hard cap to what you are allowed to contribute to your 401(k) every year. This year it's $17,500.
 
F

Flo_Evans

Member
I really don't understand the various IRA contribution caps.

Why does a 401k have a higher cap than a Roth or traditional? Why is the simple IRA 12k or whatever? Why are there caps at all...
 
D

demosthenes

Member
Flo_Evans said:
I really don't understand the various IRA contribution caps.

Why does a 401k have a higher cap than a Roth or traditional? Why is the simple IRA 12k or whatever? Why are there caps at all...
Click to expand...

Because then there would be a lot less income for the government to be able to tax.
 
L

LegoDad

Member
Can't decide what to do with my HAL shares, seems to always break off at this point but has been a good tear even with operating income not very high. I'm up 65%.. Wondering If it will split again soon..
 
F

FlashFlooder

Member
ARNA finally got their DEA Schdule IV (official tomorrow), and there's quite a run happening right now. This reminds of the pre-FDA approval days!

In other news, my ARNA holdings become long-term tomorrow :)
 
D

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
FlashFlooder said:
ARNA finally got their DEA Schdule IV (official tomorrow), and there's quite a run happening right now. This reminds of the pre-FDA approval days!

In other news, my ARNA holdings become long-term tomorrow :)
Click to expand...

Still hanging on to my shares here!

*nervous laugh*
 
R

Rubenov

Member
Soka said:
Been so very happy with my portfolio recently. That's the % unrealized gain/loss from what I currently have; there's a mix of mutual funds and individual stocks in there with the total unrealized gain listed at the bottom. I've only ever sold two stocks in my life (ATVI ~15% gain; COOL ~80% gain) so I'm overall up well above that ~52% shown there. I also tend to invest heavily in dividend-yielding stocks/mutual funds; the majority of my holdings have a 3% or higher yield.

How's everyone else doing these days? The past few years have been as close as I've ever seen to a "you cannot choose wrong" era in investing in the stock market. I'm using some hyperbole there of course, there are plenty of ways to screw up, but if you're in it for the long run, buying anytime between late 2008 through mid 2010 was an absolutely killer time to get some purchases underway.
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That's a good return Soka.

If you must do what you said above (cash in some gains), I would balance that by closing the 100%, 81%, and even the 17% (it's most likely gone depending on what stock it is) losses and bring down the balance of your taxable gains.
 
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