343 Scrapped Traditional Halo: A Story About Triple-A

I disagree. I love Crackdown to death for having sensible vehicle controls. I doesn't detract from the character immersion one bit. Hell...even GTA has sensible vehicle controls. And yeh I said "Sensible" cuz thats how they are compared to Halo's ground vehicle controls. I feel like I'm playing robotron or Smash TV when I drive a Warthog. Not a good look in my book.

I also love Crackdown, but as a matter of taste (as opposed to fact), I disagree with you on the vehicle controls as they relate to Halo. You play vehicles in Halo and you get to organically extend yourself - it's like a powerup with quirks. That and the fact that vehicles can become platforms for more than one player to use in combat at the same time, are pretty important distinctions.

Just a personal preference of mine.
 
Like I said earlier...Reach is BY FAR Bungie's best Halo IMO. I actually cared about that sqaud I went to war with.

So you think the traditional Warthog controls should be scraped and be more realistic like Forza and GT and you think Reach is Bungie's best Halo game?

Dude...
 
Of course. Tech is always a limitation. 360 is a really great workhorse and the fact that a ten year old machine is still capable of surprises is awesome, but obviously it's good to have more powa. And more time.

Ultimately building big games comes down to time, talent and tech and you have to balance all those things. We had the extra challenge of growing the team from scratch - learning about each other as well as the game engine.

Now that the team is formed, and has shipped a game together, that one huge chunk of challenge is gone. So that, combined with things we've learned about the game itself, and player reactions, habits, likes and dislikes, should lead us into a better place.

This is very likely a difficult question with potentially paragraphs for answers but what is the driving force going into future titles?

Is it pleasing the fans regardless of compromise to previous design choices (going back to a more scaled down basic MP) or are you sticking to your guns and hoping you can build a "different" Halo that will please the community?
 
This information confirms many of the suspicions I held. The fact that they hired people who "hated" previous Halo titles and scrapped concepts for being "too traditional" disappoints to a considerable extent.

Making Halo more like Call of Duty (at least in the way 343 did it) is the worst thing to happen to the Halo franchise since its inception. There's little point in imitating CoD, as any CoD player with a bit of sense is just going to stick with that franchise for its superior execution of the things 343 tried to transplant into Halo 4. Why play a sci-fi rip-off when you can play the real thing? Halo was special because it was unique. Now it's not nearly as distinct, and despite all the money 343 made, barely anybody still cares to play their game online.

I also love Crackdown, but as a matter of taste (as opposed to fact), I disagree with you on the vehicle controls as they relate to Halo. You play vehicles in Halo and you get to organically extend yourself - it's like a powerup with quirks. That and the fact that vehicles can become platforms for more than one player to use in combat at the same time, are pretty important distinctions.

Just a personal preference of mine.

Please make sure that flinching mechanic isn't in Halo 5. Please revert to being shot out of scope. Please focus on developing a single utility weapon instead of providing "variety" that really doesn't mean anything or contribute to the game's competitive viability. Please... ah, whatever. Just... bring back the Halo you were so instrumental in creating.

And please stop hiring people who hate the franchise or only liked Reach/4.
 
I wish John Howard would talk extremely openly and in depth about Halo CE and its game design. There is so much in there that is either a miracle or hidden brilliance in design. Just the other day I was thinking of how remarkable the quick camo "glitch" is in that game. It almost seems intentionally designed and balanced by the fact that only the short range weapons can activate it, the stronger mid-long range weapons can not do it, so it ties into the 2 weapon restriction balance.

Yup, made me drop my Pistol when I had Rockets/Camo so I could shoot and instantly go back to Camo.

Unintended balance, like the double melee that required a grenade: risk/reward.
 
I like having the ability to sprint. When Halo is small scale or in-doors, it's not so necessary. But in the wide open vehicle areas sprinting is a God send.

the problem with sprint is that it messes with the even footing of player vs player.

People can only keep track of about 3-4 things at once in a game (health, ammo count, position, etc), really talented players will keep track of 7-8 things at once. Once you started to introduce things like the sprint mechanic, player movement is no longer predictable, reducing several skill based aspects the game once had like positioning, leading, shot placement etc. Add in something like the jet pack and jump height is no longer predictable, meaning that one can no longer follow a player jump arch to land a headshot because they're either moving too quickly in the horizontal, or they're changing their direction with the jetpack. Even if I'm the better shot, if I'm lining up a headshot, then suddenly the player sprints behind cover, or activates a shiled, or jetpacks up, it's no longer rewarding my skill and effort, but rewarding his loadout/perk combination. Instead of the "simple" system before, where two players go in and 1 players leaves, it's now two players go in, the one with the more appropriate perk/weapon/loadout leaves.

the sprint function kills balance, making the game more and more of a crapshoot to who will win. Mix in the lack of spawned weapons means that there's no emphasis on map control, and tactics (other then basic controling choke points), and it further pushes the game into one of who has what as opposed to who is better. Hence why the game feels more random then in previous titles, and it also supports playstyles like camping.
 
This information confirms many of the suspicions I held. The fact that they hired people who "hated" previous Halo titles and scrapped concepts for being "too traditional" disappoints to a considerable extent.

Making Halo more like Call of Duty (at least in the way 343 did it) is the worst thing to happen to the Halo franchise since its inception. There's little point in imitating CoD, as any CoD player with a bit of sense is just going to stick with that franchise for its superior execution of the things 343 tried to transplant into Halo 4.

I will just never understand the mentality of, we have to do exactly what the other guys are doing in order to be successful. It happens in so many mmo's and shooters.

Halo had a style that made it its own thing but instead of sticking to that they blurred the lines.
 
This information confirms many of the suspicions I held. The fact that they hired people who "hated" previous Halo titles and scrapped concepts for being "too traditional" disappoints to a considerable extent.

.


The VAST majority of people we hired loved Halo games. And like fans, that means lots of agreement and disagreement about what makes Halo "tick." I was merely pointing out that there is also value in hiring dissenting voices. Cherry picking that quote as some kind of overall philosophy is misleading and not an accurate umbrella.
 
You're wrong.



What an absolutely absurd comparison.

Wuts so absurd about teh comparison? I'm only talking about ground vehicles (I.E. vehicles with wheels just like vehicles in any traditional racing or sim game). So i ask again, wut EXACTLY is so absurd about my comparison?
 
I think 343 executed pretty damn well on the Campaign and supporting media (FUD, the books, especially Silentium, which was possibly as good as Fall of Reach, etc). It wasn't perfect, but it was a lot better than I had expected it would be. Spartan Ops - mainly part 2 - was a really neat idea, and I would love to be able to support something like that for Halo in the future, as I've always been more of a single-player/co-op fan than anything. As far as multiplayer, well, I hope that 343, now in boss-mode, can execute on that in the future, as well. Hopefully the new box can help propel 5 into the stars. Until then, I'll be watching the updates and sustain with a keen eye to see what types of changes and fixes can be made to distill Halo 4 back down to it's essence:

halo46.gif


The seeds are there, but the tools should also be in the hands of the community going forward, not just the developer.
 
The VAST majority of people we hired loved Halo games. And like fans, that means lots of agreement and disagreement about what makes Halo "tick." I was merely pointing out that there is also value in hiring dissenting voices. Cherry picking that quote as some kind of overall philosophy is misleading and not an accurate umbrella.

I understand. I just quoted your post because it was the quickest one. My response really wasn't much of a comment on what you actually said. Sorry for the confusion.

But really, if you've got even a single person on board that "hates" Halo games, that's some pretty clear mismanagement. I sort of compare it to filmmaking. Why hire a cast or crewmember who hates your work and only wants to do it because you're paying them to make your work valuable?

Props on hiring Bravo, by the way.
 
So you think the traditional Warthog controls should be scraped and be more realistic like Forza and GT and you think Reach is Bungie's best Halo game?

Dude...


I choose to use the word "Sensible" when it comes to how the warthog should control. No as far as Reach is concerned....Hell Yes that is Bungies best Halo IMO. From top to bottom....
 
So you think the traditional Warthog controls should be scraped and be more realistic like Forza and GT and you think Reach is Bungie's best Halo game?

Dude...

343 has to design a game with this kind of viewpoint in mind. They also have to try and design a game for elitist old school assholes like myself in mind, it's just impossible to please everyone when there are so many differing opinions on what makes Halo great.
 
The seeds are there, but the tools should also be in the hands of the community going forward, not just the developer.

Imagine if they gave us the tools to play what we want, when we want other than relying on scavenging for Custom Games and being restricted to 343's vision of Halo in MM.

These things are ruining Halo, not new ideas and Infinity gametypes that initially played like a random CoD game.


-EDIT-

343 has to design a game with this kind of viewpoint in mind. They also have to try and design a game for elitist old school assholes like myself in mind, it's just impossible to please everyone when there are so many differing opinions on what makes Halo great.

Refer to my post above. Definitely not impossible..
 
I understand. I just quoted your post because it was the quickest one. My response really wasn't much of a comment on what you actually said. Sorry for the confusion.

But really, if you've got even a single person on board that "hates" Halo games, that's some pretty clear mismanagement. I sort of compare it to filmmaking. Why hire a cast or crewmember who hates your work and only wants to do it because you're paying them to make your work valuable?

Props on hiring Bravo, by the way.

Hate brews passion just the same as love. The benefit to having the flipside of that coin is criticism, something "fanboys" have a hard time with.

Imagine if they gave us the tools to play what we want, when we want other than relying on scavenging for Custom Games and being restricted to 343's vision of Halo in MM.

These things are ruining Halo, not new ideas and Infinity gametypes that initially played like a random CoD game.

I've been imagining it since Reach, really. I think it's time to say "goodbye" to the great divide between customs and matchmaking. Frank said it best when he spoke about empowering players to create their ideal Halo experience, which, these days, can be like a million different things to a million different people, I think the endless OTs are a testament to that. Most importantly, though, it's about meaningfully connecting like-minded people together, not just like-skilled.
 
But really, if you've got even a single person on board that "hates" Halo games, that's some pretty clear mismanagement. I sort of compare it to filmmaking. Why hire a cast or crewmember who hates your work and only wants to do it because you're paying them to make your work valuable?


I disagree. Dissenting voices can bring in important new perspectives. You're probably (and I understand why) applying specific aspects of the game to those people in your mind, but that's not the way it works. And they're not even necessarily designers we're talking about - animators, engineers etc sometimes fit into that category.

In fact we've hired people who dislike aspects of the game that YOU dislike and would want to change, evolve or revert. Make sense?
 
Sit down.

CE is the awesome Halo. 2 and 3 are pretenders to the throne, but at least they get invited into the room. ODST, Reach, and 4 are horrible and have to stand outside.

odst is in my opinion the best halo game from a level design and game design standpoint, massive and open levels, good lore, unlocks, and level progression were spot on. The micro missions and campaigns acted as good dungeons which varied the gameplay and each had emphasis on their own mechanics. Story wise it wasn't the strongest, but man that progression was so freaking good.

the fomula for game progression in halo odst could be compared to legend of zelda or metroid, by far the best. I really wish more fps games took this approach.
 
Hate brews passion just the same as love. The benefit to having the flipside of that coin is criticism, something "fanboys" have a hard time with.

I hear you, but even then, they should just hire the fanboys who are capable of objective criticism. You can find plenty of Halo fanboys in this thread alone who feel passionately about their criticisms, particularly those regarding the last two Halo titles (Reach and 4). I find it hard to believe that there aren't capable workers in the developer community who can be a fanboy and still offer level-headed criticism. I'm not saying they should only hire people you would consider "fanboys," but it doesn't help to hire people who hate your game, because chances are they haven't played it much and don't really understand the franchise's core mechanics in the first place.

I disagree. Dissenting voices can bring in important new perspectives. You're probably (and I understand why) applying specific aspects of the game to those people in your mind, but that's not the way it works. And they're not even necessarily designers we're talking about - animators, engineers etc sometimes fit into that category.

In fact we've hired people who dislike aspects of the game that YOU dislike and would want to change, evolve or revert. Make sense?

See above. You don't need to hire people who hate Halo in order to hire people who will bring fresh and sensible criticisms to the table. You don't need to bring in people who hate Halo in order to find important new perspectives. It would appear that the many deviations from "classic" Halo gameplay mechanics have indeed contributed to the game's tragically low online population. Sure, you sold a lot of copies of the title, but people aren't sticking with it. People who bought the game expecting characteristics commonly associated with the Halo marker set it aside and moved on to other titles. That must indicate to people at 343 that many of these changes have in fact had the opposite effect of what was intended when they were first decided upon. It would also appear that those of you at 343 may have known about this, as we never received a multiplayer Beta that would have provided you with the best possible criticism. I understand wanting to focus your resources on developing the game's final build, but after having made so much many off the game's sales, it looks like 343 could have spared the funds to develop and release a capable Beta. The fans would have found all of the balance changes that still plague the game to this day and would have let you know early on that fundamental changes to the movement system, weapon sandbox, and shooting mechanics actually made the game "worse"/inconsistent/unbalanced.

You're right that I don't know who is specifically responsible for certain changes. So, for the sake of discussion, assume I'm speaking about designers - or at least those with the influence to sign off on the inclusion or exclusion of features I've mentioned.

For the record, I don't hate Halo 4 or Halo: Reach in the grand scheme of things. With CE, 2, and even 3, though, I guess you could say I "hate" them by comparison. Reach and 4 are actually well-made games, no doubt, I just don't like them nearly as much as the previous titles. In fact, if 343 released Halo: CEA with online multiplayer (*), I would still be playing that to this day.

* That's another decision I don't understand. If 343 was worried that it would take players away from Halo: Reach, why is that so bad? At least those players would still be playing a Halo title instead of moving on to Call of Duty or Battlefield or what have you.

they made the mistake of thinking that halo was defined by the cast and crew, when in reality it was defined by the gameplay.

This, pretty much. Halo's gameplay was so unlike anything else I'd experienced in the console space and it re-introduced me to the shooter genre on the strength of its mechanics.
 
Of course. Tech is always a limitation. 360 is a really great workhorse and the fact that a ten year old machine is still capable of surprises is awesome, but obviously it's good to have more powa. And more time.

Ultimately building big games comes down to time, talent and tech and you have to balance all those things. We had the extra challenge of growing the team from scratch - learning about each other as well as the game engine.

Now that the team is formed, and has shipped a game together, that one huge chunk of challenge is gone. So that, combined with things we've learned about the game itself, and player reactions, habits, likes and dislikes, should lead us into a better place.
Dammit Stinkles, don't toy with my emotions :(
 
i really enjoyed the campaign. i thought they did a great job with it. MP had a lot of good things, but the ordinance drops and removing the power weapons from the map really did hurt it. it was still very fun to play, but you can become a little too powerful with ordinance drops and the promethean vision was the absolute worst POS you could possibly put into a MP game. SP, sure... that's fine, but you cannot put that junk in MP because it's too powerful.

i'd like for them to return to placing power weapons back on the map @ neutral sites so you have to battle for that weapon again, i'd like ordinance drops removed along with prom. vision, DMR/BR and their equivalents should be on map items, not load out items. keep the mechs, they're awesome.

overall, from having to fill such big shoes, i can't fault 343. they did good job with halo 4 but dropped the ball in some key areas... but at least they didn't put out some gearbox Alien type junk. i'm looking fwd to halo 5 for sure
 
What did they do to my beautiful Halo.

Man, making the fourth installment in one of the most popular games of all time is SOOOO easy. I mean, look at COD. They're showing us how it's done, son. Add some new textures and sounds... BAM! That's all we want, right? Keep it old school! Keep recycling the same formula! Keep it Halo! Keep it Halo CE!

Nah, we don't really want that. Improve. Make something new.

But it's not Halo anymore. It's too different. Go back the the way it was. Keep it old school. Keep recycling the same formula. Please keep it Halo CE.

Nah, what sell outs. Making the same game over and over. Let's tell them to improve. Make something new. Make it a new game.

Fuck, It's too different. Go back the the way it was. COD formula.

Now we're comfortable again!



They did nothing to your beautiful Halo. They left it the way it was. It's still playable in HD on your Xbox 360. The other Halo's are for people that have moved on.
 
I don't like many of the things 343 did with Halo 4.

The new UNSC weapons and vehicles completely throw the UNSC aesthetic out the window and replaces it with curves and rounded edges, which was what the Covenant was about. The new Marines look really generic, and the Spartans look silly.

The story wasn't terrible but it felt rushed, and finding the Chief felt like it wasn't important. He was prehaps the most important Spartan from the war against the Covenant and no one really seems surprised that he isn't dead.

It also ruined the Forerunners for me.
 
Frankie,

Did I hear that Kiki and Josh Holmes have moved onto something else or will they continue to work on Halo 5?
 
Having worked on every single Halo game since Halo 2, I can tell you that with every release, a significant swathe of people decided it had died. Halo2sucks.com was a real, energetic thing. Gameplay tastes can be really specific, to the granular level, and you will shake out a strata of taste with every iteration.

A common complaint in Halo 2, for example, is that the pistol is nerfed, because a three-shot-kill pistol from anywhere on the map was going to be problematic online, in a way that it wasn't when you were playing in a LAN. And so you had huge amounts of people who quit for that reason alone.

Also, making Halo 4 was TOUGH, but "hell" is relative. There will be other devs reading that article and scoffing at our version of "hell" because they went through way worse.

I am happy to see that your only counter as to why Halo 2 wasn't the best in the series, MP wise anyways, was the issue with the Pistol. As far as I am concerned, this confirms my suspicisons that you also think the maps, gameplay, and gametypes were best in Halo 2 as well. /baseless speculation

BTW, pls bring back sudden death. Killing sudden death killed objective gametypes. :(
 
Man, making the fourth installment in one of the most popular games of all time is SOOOO easy. I mean, look at COD. They're showing us how it's done, son. Add some new textures and sounds... BAM! That's all we want, right? Keep it old school! Keep recycling the same formula! Keep it Halo! Keep it Halo CE!

Nah, we don't really want that. Improve. Make something new.

But it's not Halo anymore. It's too different. Go back the the way it was. Keep it old school. Keep recycling the same formula. Please keep it Halo CE.

Nah, what sell outs. Making the same game over and over. Let's tell them to improve. Make something new. Make it a new game.

Fuck, It's too different. Go back the the way it was. COD formula.

Now we're comfortable again!



They did nothing to your beautiful Halo. They left it the way it was. It's still playable in HD on your Xbox 360. The other Halo's are for people that have moved on.

they made the mistake of thinking that halo was defined by the cast and crew, when in reality it was defined by the gameplay. They made the chief the same but they messed with the fundemental aspects of the game, and this is what ultimately breaks the game. They could have easily changed other aspects, introduced more varied enemies, made new and unique missions and combat scenarios and even created various changes for the primary mechanics. They lost sight of what made halo, halo, and in doing so they introduced several design breaking choices. No one is saying "keep halo the same" they're saying that the base mechanics were what made halo what it is, and by codifying them it feels broken.

Somehow bungie added health bars, removed health bars, had jump dmg, removed jump dmg, they added dual wielding, removed dual wielding, they added equipment, removed equipment, new enemies etc. These are all big changes, yet none of it was considered game breaking like the codifying descions made in halo reach/4.
 
I don't like many of the things 343 did with Halo 4.

The new UNSC weapons and vehicles completely throw the UNSC aesthetic out the window and replaces it with curves and rounded edges, which was what the Covenant was about. The new Marines look really generic, and the Spartans look silly.

The story wasn't terrible but it felt rushed, and finding the Chief felt like it wasn't important. He was prehaps the most important Spartan from the war against the Covenant and no one really seems surprised that he isn't dead.

It also ruined the Forerunners for me.

Super good point about the chief being found, while we were co-op'ing it we all thought of that. Halo 3 gave him this epic funeral and sendoff and cutscene where he is drifting to a new world.

Cut to halo 4 and there just like, hey buddy, go do all this shit now.

Where was the fanboy marine who grew up wishing he could be a spartan jumping up and down at the sight of chief.
 
Every series needs it's Adventure of Link/Virtua Fighter 3 style game like Halo 4. Now you take the best of the new and mix it with the best of the old and come out with something great.
 
they made the mistake of thinking that halo was defined by the cast and crew, when in reality it was defined by the gameplay. They made the chief the same but they messed with the fundemental aspects of the game, and this is what ultimately breaks the game. They could have easily changed other aspects, introduced more varied enemies, made new and unique missions and combat scenarios and even created various changes for the primary mechanics. They lost sight of what made halo, halo, and in doing so they introduced several design breaking choices that has made me leave the franchise almost entirely.

Yeah, I guess it depends on the person. To some people what made Halo, Halo, was moon jumping and throwing grenades with the left trigger of your controller. That along with the vehicular combat, and all around sandbox play that has been improved upon since the first release.
 
Yeah, I guess it depends on the person. To some people what made Halo, Halo, was moon jumping and throwing grenades with the left trigger of your controller. That along with the vehicular combat, and all around sandbox play that has been improved upon since the first release.

except in halo 4, where levels were shorter more linear, the enemies and weapons were more generic and similar to one another, and the vehicle sections were often straight runs down a narrow route. The sandbox was massively hampered in halo 4.

oh, and QTEs do not belong in sandbox game design, that's the most linear game design mechanic available. The cores in halo 4 where you slam them out then in or w/e to drop the shield is a complete counter to how you kill things like the scarabs in halo 3. One is open and objective based, the other is stand there and do this. One lets you use several different things from the sandbox, the other has a single option and outcome. Directed vs undirected.
 
except in halo 4, where levels were shorter more linear, the enemies and weapons were more generic and similar to one another, and the vehicle sections were often straight runs down a narrow route...

Also, was it just me, or were the Covenant dumb as fuck as well. I remember shooting multiple Elites in the face and them just standing there. I only played like 4 levels of the Campaign, but I was playing on Heroic and the Covenant just seemed like idiots compared to previous Halo games.
 
Given how incredibly bland and lifeless Halo 4's campaign was, my own translation of that statement is:

"We had all these people with extremely conflicting feelings on Halo, we tried to make them all happy, so we threw out everything that offended someone on the team and played it safe."

Resulting in something that, rather than being a "fresh take" on Halo was ironically the most basic and unoriginal Halo experience in the entire series.
 
Can we bitch about the final boss being worse then halo 2's final battle?

Also, was it just me, or were the Covenant dumb as fuck as well. I remember shooting multiple Elites in the face and them just standing there. I only played like 4 levels of the Campaign, but I was playing on Heroic and the Covenant just seemed like idiots compared to previous Halo games.

They were no where near reach elites who would go hide instantly and rush you down and teabag your dead body after being plasma'd to death

Many times the halo 4 elites would not react until after their shield dropped, and all they would do is side step a little.
 
Yeah, I guess it depends on the person. To some people what made Halo, Halo, was moon jumping and throwing grenades with the left trigger of your controller. That along with the vehicular combat, and all around sandbox play that has been improved upon since the first release.

I personally felt like halo 4 was the most linear of the halo games, the sandbox gameplay was toned way down so, i believe, the levels were made intentionally smaller with more lods and distant skyboxes to give the feeling that you were in a big zone but to save a bunch of resources for the slightly prettier visuals.
 
They were no where near reach elites who would go hide instantly and rush you down and teabag your dead body after being plasma'd to death

Many times the halo 4 elites would not react until after their shield dropped, and all they would do is side step a little.

That is exactly what I noticed, they would just take shots until their shields dropped and then maybe try to hide. Halo CE and Halo Reach Elites were very smart and cunning, I love how they would hunt you down if you were weak and trying to retreat.
 
They did nothing to your beautiful Halo. They left it the way it was. It's still playable in HD on your Xbox 360. The other Halo's are for people that have moved on.
Actually with the removal of Live for the original Xbox they (not 343 specifically, the powers that be) did do something.

Though I don't get why you'd make a Halo game for people who have moved on from Halo. Sounds backwards to me.
 
Forum kid: dey should make it so you have perks so if you have da grenades perk your grenades hurt more
Halo fan: goddamn these cod kids
Corporately Mandated Halo developer: good idea kid *puts in game*
 
I really appreciate your input on this stuff Frankie. Must be tough to come into a thread full of people that think your game sucks.

As for the article, it's interesting to get some insight on the process, but it doesn't seem like anything out of the ordinary to me. That's just what happens when you create something of that scale. Especially with a new team of people. I don't really agree with the direction the game went, especially regarding the multiplayer, but I believe the work the team did on the game is truly great. At its core, the game looks and feels awesome. If I could have Halo 2 or 3 in a Halo 4's skin, it would make me a very happy man.
 
Forum kid: dey should make it so you have perks so if you have da grenades perk your grenades hurt more
Halo fan: goddamn these cod kids
Corporately Mandated Halo developer: good idea kid *puts in game*

One of the more frustrating things was to have fans express legitimate concern over design choices only to have the Creative fucking Director of the game passive aggressively tweet pictures of crying babies. Keeping it classy.
 
That is exactly what I noticed, they would just take shots until their shields dropped and then maybe try to hide. Halo CE and Halo Reach Elites were very smart and cunning, I love how they would hunt you down if you were weak and trying to retreat.

Reach elites, and Halo 4 elites, suffer from a similar problem that makes them very easy; when their shield breaks, they almost always stagger.

I think this was even more problematic in Reach, as they'd either stagger or roar, giving you plenty of time to line up a headshot.

I don't think elites have been difficult since CE, really. Maybe if they at least gave the strongest elites the Chieftain treatment (shooting off the helmet), they might be slightly more difficult.

The other end of the spectrum is the Promethean warriors, where they have no stagger, and the head hitbox seems to be a puzzle; and if you don't solve that puzzle really quickly, they teleport away and are at full shields in moments.

One of the more frustrating things was to have the have fans express legitimate concern over design choices only to have the Creative fucking Director of the game passive aggressively tweet pictures of crying babies. Keeping it classy.

You know, sometimes when someone wants to express a legitimate concern, they should construct posts that aren't befitting a crying baby. I remember lots of these posts, and while there were some that could properly express their points, most were filled with gratuitous name-calling and hyperbole. No one wants to respond to those.
 
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