CoffeeJanitor
Member
Are you serious here....SS looked like ass. Playing that coming off of Skyrim made the game look terrible.
Iwata on third parties, hundreds of inquiries since GDC about Nintendo Web Framework
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Are you serious here....SS looked like ass. Playing that coming off of Skyrim made the game look terrible.
Wickerbasket
Member
I doubt anyone sensible would say it's not more powerful, it's how much more powerful that's up for debate.
Most reasonable people can see that the Wii U is more comparable to the 360/PS3 in power rather than MS and Sony's next gen consoles.
DragonSworne
Banned
If Nintendo only released some tech demos and specs, there would be no misunderstanding...
I don't know why they thought is was a better idea to keep their mouth shut about power and show off Wii and 360 ports for two years.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Are you serious here....SS looked like ass. Playing that coming off of Skyrim made the game look terrible.
Playing it after playing Wind Waker and TP made it look like ass. There were more jaggies in SS than on a chain saw.
H_Prestige
Banned
Don't bother. Some people are just in perpetual denial over the system's weak specs, no matter how much logic you hit them with.
I think the only fact that people will take into account is not a couple of threads based on 95% speculation on two die shots, but rather actually seeing games that are clearly a step above the current gen. If it ever happens , by the time it does, WiiU games will be compared to PS4/720 ones, and it won't be pretty.
The textures and poly count in both TP and Skyward Sword were terrible and were so even when they were released. Though you are right, Skyward Sword and The Wind Waker hide the team's deficiencies in technical know-how much better than TP.
Ok, then how are they supposed to get third parties?
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
I remember reading folks saying in the old Wii U threads how the PS4/XB3 wouldn't be that much of a difference from the Wii U and it would be getting ports of the major games. Welp. The Wii U will have 1/4 of ram that the next consoles get. Good luck.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
MONEYHAT. that's the only way the Wii U can get third party support once the PS4/XB3 really take hold. Wii U will get a few titles of cross gen games like Watchdogs but once the devs fully move on Wii U will be dead with third parties. That ship sailed once Nintendo decided to release hardware that is as weak as the Wii U is in comparison to the other two.
Eh...I certainly think Nintendo could have went farther, but both the GPU and RAM are quite a bit better compared to both PS360. Pretty sure there's no dispute about that. The CPU however is a big question mark.
Re: third party support. It has almost nothing to do with the hardware this time around. See: ps360 ports, or lack thereof.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Read the thread. Not going to repeat the same thing over and over again.
Doesn't Microsoft have an infinite money supply or something?
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
And? Nobody says Nintendo has to moneyhat exclusives. They can moneyhat ports or exclusive DLC.
Nintendo most likely isn't getting Destiny. An IP that is suppose to last a decade. I wouldn't be surprised of one reason is how weak the Wii U is. When Bungie moves the game into Next Gen exclusively Wii U wouldn't be able to get it so why bring over the first game in the series.
Reading the last few pages are headache inducing. This is a thread full of mishmashed ideas, random rantings, and is extraordinarily off topic constantly. All I was saying is that bean counters and suits at pubs have more to say about Wii u support than hardware this time around, unlike the previous generation where it was far less feasible to do downports.
H_Prestige
Banned
It's like you didn't even read the post you quoted.
It has twice the RAM but it's also twice as slow. The CPU is nothing to write home about. The GPU is "better", but a system is only as fast as its slowest parts.
Microsoft does, Xbox division doesn't especially since they already spent the usual MS amount to buy their way into the market.
fabricated backlash
Member
But all you do is repeat the same crap in various threads on Nintendo over and over again, so why suddenly this aversion to repeating yourself?
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
What crap is that exactly?
Would people even really buy them though?
Batman Arkham edition, Mass Effect 3, blahblahblah didn't really do much for them, did they?
Mithos
Member
On Mass Effect 3, if people don't understand why... *hint* Trilogy *hint*
ProfessorMoran
Member
The fact that Iwata somehow believes it's a "misunderstanding" that the WiiU is underpowered shows that he's completely out of touch with reality. Not to mention he wants third-parties to "regret" not supporting the WiiU instead of actually reaching out to those third-parties with better terms to make it so that it's cheaper to develop for the WiiU, maybe perhaps Nintendo should take a smaller cut as a platform holder.
H_Prestige
Banned
What makes his position even more ridiculous is that the one AAA third party Wii U exclusive released so far bombed beyond belief. A game that would have sold at least decently on MS/Sony boxes. Yeah, I'm sure that's making third parties really regret not working on the Wii U, Iwata.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Imagine Nintendo IP style DLC (Mario/Metroid/Link characters). Imagine DLC that takes advantage of the Gamepad. It'd
be smarter to get these IPs on the platform to legitimize it evenif it cost Nintendo dollars.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
It's one reason I believe he needs to go. He just doesn't get it.
How well did Nintendo style DLC work for Tekken?
ProfessorMoran
Member
Basically they made the mistake of designing the WiiU so that it serves more of a higher resolution port-box from the PS3/360 where there really isn't that incentive to do so since the WiiU is struggling at building a userbase while the older consoles are already well-established, what exacerbates that situation is that PS4/720 are just around the corner, they basically put the WiiU between a rock and a hard place and they don't have a clue how to dig themselves out, they're going to have to rely on the success of the 3DS for now.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
How well did Tekken sell on other consoles. Not sure I consider that to be a AAA IP. I'm talking Mass Effect, BF4, Elder Scroll games, Ass Creed, Tomb Raider, etc. Also, releasing a 6-12 month old game on the Wii U doesn't help.
ProfessorMoran
Member
Maybe it doesn't even matter whether he gets it or not, you can put someone who gets it in charge but there's nothing he can do now, since the WiiU is too badly positioned.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Why Nintendo hasn't released a Valve style hat money making platform is beyond me. There should be DLC out the ass for Nintendo games. They should have a market place for people to create avatara/hats/clothes for games that can be used in game and Nintendo would take a percentage of every sale. They have such classic IPs and don't take advantage of them in ways that would create a cash windfall.
That's more the publisher's fault than Nintendo's. Charging full price for a late port when a disc with all three games is out or full price for a game more than a year old is bad business. They should have been at most $40
I really doubt the established audiences for those games/series will really care much about Nintendo DLC, let alone enough to buy an entire console for said DLC.
If they did, I'm pretty sure that they'd buy a Nintendo console for the first party games regardless.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Whose talking about other folks? I'm talking about Wii U owners who bought the console at launch. These games sold like shit. Partially due to the terrible price but also there was nothing that distinguished them from the 360/PS3/PC versions. Nintendo needs to be creative with their IPs and DLC.
I agree that they have made some very silly decisions with their hardware and I do think that more capable tech in Wii U would have helped. They are extremely stubborn and value BC, 'difference', low power consumption and most importantly profitability in a short time over everything else. I think they don't care that they could forgo one or more of the first three, put the money into tech and still be profitable but also have more consumers and better support from third parties.
It was their chance to shine. To grab some of those consumers bored with current gen tech and make them grab a Nintendo console. There chance to excite third parties by giving them something new that could aid marketting. They failed miserably and I think it's too late to change. By the time a bit of support happens with AAA games like Watch Dogs, the new machines will be here and Wii U will probably look old school comparatively. Meanwhile more games will NOT come to Wii U further cementing the idea that it's a Nintendo only console.
What's pathetic is that Iwata can get away with such ridiculous statements because he's speaking to the arrogance that has been present in the company since the SNES. The very arrogance that kept two Nintendo consoles from reaching their full potential.
This idea that only Nintendo has the key to the industry and success. The Nintendo way is the right way, and those 3rd parties that don't get with the program -oh- they'll be sorry.
Probably wise to wait for the official translation as opposed to a shortened, paraphrased one.
It won't surprise me if it turns out he said that he believes those supporting the machine will have success and hopes this will increase support from others not currently making software...
..as opposed to saying they will regret not making software or they'll be sorry.
More often than not these half translations don't give the full picture or context of what he said. Which is the very reason for Nintendo Directs.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
I don't believe Iwata was being vengeful but rather he desires third parties to witness the Wii U install base growing and to put their titles on the system. I haven't seen any statement from Iwata where he ever came across as vengeful.
Does it need to sound vengeful? The result is still the same. Nintendo's hardware decisions remain selfish, and their attempts to garner 3rd party support remain shallow and I'll-thought.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
The post argues that Iwata wants third parties to regret not supporting the Wii U. I don't believe Iwata cares if the third parties do or do not regret it. He simply wants the games, though he decided to sign off on the machine being so limited that it wouldn't get the games to begin with.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
That is where we disagree.
He knows how powerful the thing is. We don't. Think about that for a moment.
Also, his point on 3rd parties makes perfect sense. They have approached all important publishers, and could convice some of them: they have co-production and publishing deals with Activision, Warner, Atlus, Ubisoft, Capcom and KoeiTecmo. They obviously couldn't convince all of them, and taking a smaller cut would be stupid, so they hope the likes of EA will see the light and get back on board once things turn around.
You do realize the entire point is to find a way to sell hardware, right?
ProfessorMoran
Member
Well then he should know that it's underpowered, the machine is out, there are games out for it, let's not pretend there's some special sauce Nintendo forgot to tell people about.
Albeit I greatly respect Iwata and he conducts himself well almost all of the time, I do believe he could have chosen a better word than "regret" (if the translation is accurate). Put yourself in a third party's shoes reading that. "You'll regret not supporting us when our console sells!".
Compared to what exactly? The most common assumption is that "underpowered" means "as powerful as PS360", and that might very well be a misunderstanding.
Also, there kinda was that "special sauce" issue. It wasn't that Nintendo forgot to tell devs, it was a timing issue. Final hardware went out way too late, the documentation was incomplete, the toolchain was lacking and so on. All those things make it extremely hard for developers to really exploit the hardware.
H_Prestige
Banned
ps3/360/wii u are all underpowered compared to what will be released this year.
ProfessorMoran
Member
Underpowered compared to PS4/720, I doubt people would think the WiiU, a console that is out more than 6 years after the start of the current generation is underpowered compared to PS3/360. Iwata's problem isn't whether PS3/360 games will get ported to the WiiU or not, it's the WiiU being inferior tech compared to what's coming out this year and development pipeline for the upcoming generation wouldn't support it resulting in a lack of support going forward from major third-party publishers.
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