MS: Xbox One 40x More Powerful Than 360 with the Cloud, Only 10x Without the Cloud

DopeyFish said:
You don't need a source for this, one.

Secondly, if you're having difficulty understanding these concepts and my posts, swing by your local college and apply for a course in computer science or something
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The thing is your posts are so generic that nothing is needed to understand that say nothing relevant .
That is why, if all this cloud thing was true, people need further explanation that you miss to provide
 
J-Rzez said:
MS has a lot of money. They're also known to hire journalists for positions within their company. And then there's the "MS Munchkins" that were utilized in the past, probably presently, and most likely evolved to journalists. I've said this forever, and people told me to take off the tin foil hat, but I'll be damned if this fiasco doesn't prove it. And I don't think they're just in bed with MS, I think they're mixed in with Apple, Google, Samsung, etc. It's just the totem pole effect here. If MS did this in a market with Apple competing, they'd tear MS to pieces over this. But the media has been trying to crush Sony now since last gen.

Remember when they made a big deal like they're whiting knighting it for "gamers" when Sony got arrogant and "$600"? Sony was so evil they just gave MS a free pass on the RRoD basically. Where are these "journalists" now? Because this is far fucking worse than "$600" for consumers. The majority of these sites and their "journalists" are nothing more than a 3rd party advertising/marketing avenue to the highest bidder. These sites not crushing MS right now for these tactics proves just that. If this was Sony it would be an absolute blood bath.

Anyways, good post....

Oh, the cloud... yeah. I'm still waiting for my fridge and microwave who would be connected locally to help out with these computational issues, let alone servers who knows how far away with ping in the 40, 50, 100+ms.
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Is is what I feel like,but was afraid to say in fear of being accused on conspiracy talk. How can something this negative be glossed over by so much of the gaming press?

I guess the only answer can be that most gaming press aren't news sites, they're just information aggregators with no real journalistic intent.





As for the cloud thing - other than it being a PR stretch of Herculean proportions, its something that any platform could leverage - nothing stopping PS4 doing the same. In fact with Sony investing in gakai, there is potential for them to redirect the power it hat backed for general cloud computing, not just local rendering and streaming (its all GPUs anyway)
 
Krilekk said:
If anything it should take much less data than sending a frickin' video stream like Online and Gaikai do. They don't have to send you massive amounts of data, all the game data is obviously stored in the cloud directly on their servers. Direct video is about the dumbest and most bandwidth intensive solution for cloud gaming, it's the brute force solution. I mean ... jesus. If you have a fancy game with realtime weather and wind system that would normally be calculated on your end. With the cloud all it takes is to send one KB of data per second to tell your console what the actual conditions are where you currently are. They could even take all the players around the world, add them to the equation and send the results to everyone. Like a butterfly effect.

AI can be done by the cloud, it's already done so many times. Left 4 Dead, who do you think calculates those Zombies when you're joining a server? It's not happening on your end, you just receive their positions. Every P2P connection over Live is basically the same thing, the host calculates, everybody else just receives. The cloud concept doesn't change what is already there, it just takes it to dedicated servers with a much better bandwidth. If you can do P2P gaming with as low as 15 KB/s I'm pretty sure cloud gaming with 4.5 MB/s should not be a problem.

There is stuff where it's not viable to use the cloud, time critical stuff. If you make the cloud render dynamic lighting it's gonna suck, who wants to have the shadows and lights around you adjust 200 ms after you turned? But it is possible for global illumination and other things where you aren't in direct control and thus have no relation to when stuff should happen on your screen.

Azure is also a much cheaper solution than game streaming. With streaming you need to basically have one server for every concurrent player. Something like a fully dynamic weather systems needs to be only calculated by a couple of servers and then sent to all the clients. It doesn't take as much computing power and it doesn't take as much bandwidth.

Or pedestrians in a game like GTA. You have to calculate every single one of them. Which means they basically only exist while you see them/are in a certain area around you. Ever wondered why people or cars disappear? With the cloud you could actually calculate all the positions of everyone in a city of 50.000. It's a wholly new game for crowd mechanics. All you would ever get are the positions of everyone you see, where today you have maybe 30 active people around you it could be 2.000. Rendering would not be a problem thanks to modern techniques like tesselation.

So yeah, cloud gaming is practically limitless for certain tasks. Anyone who denies that the cloud can have a severe positive impact on video games is kidding themselfs. And compute hours are cheap enough today to make it actually a pretty smart decision not to spend all that money on console power but to outsource to the cloud.
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Krilekk and his delicious avatar needs to be quoted more. This is uniquely 'easier' for MS to implement on a worldwide scale due to MS's knowledge and infrastructure already in place through azure. Nothing is stopping sony from implementing similar services, but that would be a massive investment for them.
 
DopeyFish said:
Some of the most strenuous calculations end up with small results

For physics, imagine an explosion occurring beside a car. server can calculate how much explosive force shifts the vehicle while calculating gravity, the stresses on the vehicle suspension and how the car will end up. A lot of calculations. (I'm ignoring things like glass and deformity for this example)

In reality the important data which reflects what's on screen is the end result; the location of where everything is. So that's like 5 XYZ coordinates.
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I'm sorry, but this is coming across as someone not quite knowing what they're talking about.

First of, explosive forces are REALLY easy to calculate. Initial force and inverse square law. How that force works on the car to push it is gotten from that. A uniform push on a body with a certain weight distribution is equally easy, and you just end up orienting the car based on the force, and pushing it. You would never offload this to "the cloud", because you can't offload lag-sensitive calculations to a server. When you're driving a car, it needs to be locally computed. And it also takes no resources to perform this locally.

Also, you don't "calculate gravity". It's simply constant. You don't calculate glass stress or car deformity, but you likely use coefficients for their respective loads and make a simple analog to what would actually happen. And also, an explosion doesn't teleport you to another location, so it's not 5 XYZ coordinates. It would be vector based, but to cloud compute all this and then sending it to all players makes much less sense than just having it be locally computed, and then sending it to everyone.

What would happen if you lagged just as the explosion happened? In the case of Mario Kart, you could make a lag-button and that way prevent being hit from any weapons. This shit will never happen.

The persistent world is an example of things they can do on the server, but that's what servers are there for, anyway. It just comes of as marketing terms, and it really rubs me the wrong way.
 
Untalkative_Bunny said:
why would publishers want to pay for this? how does it make them more money?
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Because their games are better? And more fun? And that makes them more money?

We don't yet know how much this will cost the publisher to take advantage of cloud computing. If it's part of the next gen xbox, then there must be some kind of incentive (i.e. a deal) that makes it worth their while. Obviously it's worth it for MS to have publishers use this aspect of the platform so it would be silly of them to make it cost so much that no one will want to use it.

If this turns out not to be the case, then yes, you'd have a valid point.
 
tzare said:
The thing is your posts are so generic that nothing is needed to understand that say nothing relevant .
That is why, if all this cloud thing was true, people need further explanation that you miss to provide
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What the fuck else do you want me to do? Write out code?

I've explained parts of the process, the beneficiaries of the implementations, gave some basic examples

And I just hear crying and "it's magic"

This trollfest is just inane and irritating banter
 
Alx said:
First, I would dismiss all the straight "this is bullshit", "it cannot work", "pie in the sky" comments.
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It can not work in the way that one MS rep advertised it, it will not multiply the power of the xbone by 4.

Alx said:
Second, the "40x more powerful" is obviously PR talk
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We can agree on that. So it actually is bullshit.

Alx said:
Third, what can it be used for ? Well, I don't know. But if I had to speculate, and from what people said in the technical keynote, it wouldn't necessarily be "traditional" tasks. Current games are designed for local processing, so most of the tasks running in them are not meant to be computed remotely. Some of them could work with a little latency, but I suppose they're not the biggest part of the whole program.
I think what cloud processing could bring to games won't be taking care of common tasks in current games, but allowing for new tasks and new features. Of course we'll need to wait and see if it really makes games better, or if it is just a nice option that will be used in a handful of first party games.
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So it's useless now but might be of some use down the road, but we're not sure what it'll be used for exactly? That's not what they're selling, they're selling the fact the cloud multiplies computational power of the xbone by 4. If you move the goal posts enough, eventually, you'll get to something reasonable. But that has no bearing on the fact that what that MS rep said in that interview is complete technobabble horseshit.
 
I have a question for the people who believe microsofts claims, don't you think the way they have revealed this suspicious at all?

they go the whole hour with only the briefest of moments talking about the benefits of cloud, they finish up and get bombarded with hate and THEN decide to mention "oh by the way, it actually triples the power of the xbone"!

don't you think that would he something they would mention on stage? why were they so afraid to reveal specs that they resorted to transistors to one up Sony yet they don't mention the fact their cloud service would eclipse the ps4 abilities by a mile?

what this says to me is either two things:

1) they have the world's worst marketing team
or
2) it's all bullshit and doesn't offer no where near as much of an increase in performance as they say it will.

seriously some people need to look at things a little deeper because these details matter.
 
Dopey - honest question... Are you a moron, or just a huge Xbot with dreams of grandeur. What you are talking about would cost WAY more than MS wants to spend. They are in the lowest denominator to make money. They will lie about anything to do so.

It is the MS way, and always has been
 
i highly doubt its 300,000 real servers. Most likely 300,000 Virtual machines.

Whatever the case they will need to scale that up significantly if each xbone will need a virtual machine to buff up its processing power.
 
Krilekk said:
Or pedestrians in a game like GTA. You have to calculate every single one of them. Which means they basically only exist while you see them/are in a certain area around you. Ever wondered why people or cars disappear? With the cloud you could actually calculate all the positions of everyone in a city of 50.000. It's a wholly new game for crowd mechanics. All you would ever get are the positions of everyone you see, where today you have maybe 30 active people around you it could be 2.000. Rendering would not be a problem thanks to modern techniques like tesselation.
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Wait, you're not suggesting that since a server could, it should keep all the pedestrian data for your entire world? There's just no need for this, what so ever. And how would tesselation help with this? And you're also saying that not only could you raise the amount of people in the vicinity, but also keep all in the cloud? So the cloud is always computing where the 5,000,000 inhabitants of my city are?

DopeyFish said:
What the fuck else do you want me to do? Write out code?

I've explained parts of the process, the beneficiaries of the implementations, gave some basic examples

And I just hear crying and "it's magic"

This trollfest is just inane and irritating banter
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I'm sorry, I read back, and I see that you're just basically claiming to know what you're talking about based on some concepts you've written out. The concepts have been a fairly bad misinterpretation of what to do with the cloud computing, and I see very, very little indicating that you are a person that somehow has extensive knowledge on the matter, or otherwise "knows what you're talking about". I'm sorry that you see the remarks made against your lacking ideas to be a witch hunt. We're not trying to troll you, we're trying to tell you that you can't defend this idea, because you lack the expertise to know what it would be used for.
 
PuppetMaster said:
Might as well compute those lightmaps BEFORE the game ships!

For a slow time of day effect you would need what, a couple dozen sets of lightmaps. This is NOTHING for a bluray disc! And will not require always online or a monthy fee to play a GD SP game
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Yeah, you could definetly do it that way... but I guess it becomes trickier if there are multiple lighting variables (time of day AND weather as an example).
 
DopeyFish said:
Some of the most strenuous calculations end up with small results

For physics, imagine an explosion occurring beside a car. server can calculate how much explosive force shifts the vehicle while calculating gravity, the stresses on the vehicle suspension and how the car will end up. A lot of calculations. (I'm ignoring things like glass and deformity for this example)

In reality the important data which reflects what's on screen is the end result; the location of where everything is. So that's like 5 XYZ coordinates.
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That's more of a SIMD type of operation, which would be more practical on the GPU than in the cloud. Sending all that data back and forth in real time doesn't seem expedient. Those servers would be better off hosting large numbers of players in multiplayer matches than calculating particle physics.
 
DopeyFish said:
What the fuck else do you want me to do? Write out code?

I've explained parts of the process, the beneficiaries of the implementations, gave some basic examples

And I just hear crying and "it's magic"

This trollfest is just inane and irritating banter
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Well you haven't explained anything that leads to think that a HUGE part of computing will be done on servers instead of locally. You have posted a few examples, the same almost everyone says and thinks: processes that are not latency dependent, but that is nowhere near the jump (40x 360) MS seems to claim for Xbox one. I am sure cloud computing will 'help' consoles (and other devices) in the coming years, but thinking that will be a determining factor and that that may outperform PS4 is nonsense.

That is what people are making fun of. Or trolling if you wish.
 
I don't buy the 40x thing... Clearly PR bullshit

But on the specific issue of cloud AI...

If I am playing Quake 2 against some guy on the internet running a bot on his computer, and the bot is kicking my ass royally... Isn't that essentially cloud AI on a smaller scale? If so, then latency for AI shouldn't be any worse than latency for multiplayer gaming in general.. I mean how fast can a computer react to my actions? If bots in FPS games are any indication, they react pretty darn fast right? Then it's just a matter of sending the message over the net to the graphical enemies on my screen, which shouldn't take any longer than computer to computer communication in a multiplayer scenario.

That seems feasible, and possibly even beneficial to me. I mean, human beings have latency when you are playing against them on the net, but they're still more interesting to play against than the stupid AI in most games. If a much smarter and more resource intensive AI could be offloaded to remote computers, acting essentially as multiplayer/Internet enemies. Even if they were a little laggy sometimes, that could be beneficial.

edit// obviously one problem with this is you bring all the roadblocks of multiplayer gaming into your single-player experience.. Lose your connection for a second or have a bad lag spike and your single-player game starts lagging or acting unpredictably. And without servers your game doesn't work at all, so server life becomes a huge issue for all games.
 
Krowley said:
I don't by the 40x thing... Clearly PR bullshit

But on the specific issue of cloud AI...

If I am playing Quake 2 against some guy on the internet running a bot on his computer, and the bot is kicking my ass royally... Isn't that essentially cloud AI on a smaller scale? If so, then latency for AI shouldn't be any worse than latency for multiplayer gaming in general.. I mean how fast can a computer react to my actions? If bots in FPS games are any indication, they react pretty darn fast right? Then it's just a matter of sending the message over the net to the graphical enemies on my screen, which shouldn't take any longer than computer to computer communication in a multiplayer scenario.

That seems feasible, and possibly even beneficial to me. I mean, human beings have latency too when you are playing them on the net, but they are still more interesting to play against than the stupid AI in most games these days.
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Of course cloud computing can add benefits , but that is one thing, and pretending that 3/4 of the console processing power will be done by the cloud is another.
 
mrklaw said:
Is is what I feel like,but was afraid to say in fear of being accused on conspiracy talk. How can something this negative be glossed over by so much of the gaming press?

I guess the only answer can be that most gaming press aren't news sites, they're just information aggregators with no real journalistic intent.





As for the cloud thing - other than it being a PR stretch of Herculean proportions, its something that any platform could leverage - nothing stopping PS4 doing the same. In fact with Sony investing in gakai, there is potential for them to redirect the power it hat backed for general cloud computing, not just local rendering and streaming (its all GPUs anyway)
Click to expand...

I doubt if Sony has the resources to build 300 000 servers.

I really wonder what all those servers are for. Have they really found a way to utilize cloud computing where latency dont matter ? I doubt it a lot. But this many servers is quite an investment.
 
Krowley said:
I don't buy the 40x thing... Clearly PR bullshit

But on the specific issue of cloud AI...

If I am playing Quake 2 against some guy on the internet running a bot on his computer, and the bot is kicking my ass royally... Isn't that essentially cloud AI on a smaller scale? If so, then latency for AI shouldn't be any worse than latency for multiplayer gaming in general.. I mean how fast can a computer react to my actions? If bots in FPS games are any indication, they react pretty darn fast right? Then it's just a matter of sending the message over the net to the graphical enemies on my screen, which shouldn't take any longer than computer to computer communication in a multiplayer scenario.

That seems feasible, and possibly even beneficial to me. I mean, human beings have latency when you are playing against them on the net, but they're still more interesting to play against than the stupid AI in most games. If a much smarter and more resource intensive AI could be offloaded to remote computers, acting essentially as multiplayer/Internet enemies. Even if they were a little laggy sometimes, that could be beneficial.

edit// obviously one problem with this is you bring all the roadblocks of multiplayer gaming into your single-player experience.. Lose your connection for a second or have a bad lag spike and your single-player game starts lagging or acting unpredictably. And without servers your game doesn't work at all, so server life becomes a huge issue for all games.
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That works no differently to normal MP though, just because the other party is using a bot on their computer doesn't change the data stream from human opponents.
 
Krowley said:
I don't buy the 40x thing... Clearly PR bullshit

But on the specific issue of cloud AI...

If I am playing Quake 2 against some guy on the internet running a bot on his computer, and the bot is kicking my ass royally... Isn't that essentially cloud AI on a smaller scale? If so, then latency for AI shouldn't be any worse than latency for multiplayer gaming in general.. I mean how fast can a computer react to my actions? If bots in FPS games are any indication, they react pretty darn fast right? Then it's just a matter of sending the message over the net to the graphical enemies on my screen, which shouldn't take any longer than computer to computer communication in a multiplayer scenario.

That seems feasible, and possibly even beneficial to me. I mean, human beings have latency when you are playing against them on the net, but they're still more interesting to play against than the stupid AI in most games. If a much smarter and more resource intensive AI could be offloaded to remote computers, acting essentially as multiplayer/Internet enemies. Even if they were a little laggy sometimes, that could be beneficial.
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Current game AI isn't so demanding that it would save a lot of CPU resources to offload it into the cloud versus doing it offline. In fact, handling and processing the packets and running the usual lag compensation and interpolation code would probably take just as much CPU, if not more. The server hosts the bots because that's the most efficient way to do it in a networked multiplayer game.

The only way I could see it being beneficial is if the servers were hosting a metric ton of complex AIs in a massive persistent game world, and the player only needed packet updates from a few of them at a time. Basically an MMO.
 
Hermii said:
I doubt if Sony has the resources to build 300 000 servers.

I really wonder what all those servers are for. Have they really found a way to utilize cloud computing where latency dont matter ? I doubt it a lot. But this many servers is quite an investment.
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They are almost certainly not 'REAL' servers. Azure uses virtual machines. How many machines per physical blade they seem to keep pretty close to their chest.

But its just another example of them using big numbers to distort reality.
 
I tried to do the math...

X360 had 100 Live friends.
Xbox One has 1.000 live friends.
100x10=1.000

Cloud 40x360.
40x100=4.000
Cloud connected Xbox One = 4.000 friends.

so they are right... and you loose friends if you are not online 24/7.

----------------------------------

but this could also explain it..

JXgLgdb.jpg
 
PuppetMaster said:
They are almost certainly not 'REAL' servers. Azure uses virtual machines. How many machines per physical blade they seem to keep pretty close to their chest.

But its just another example of them using big numbers to distort reality.
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That litle detail made the number seem a lot less impressive lol.
 
I'm going to guess that the 300k number is actually the number of servers that azure uses globally, and not the number specifically allocated to Xbox one, and it is MS mixing the numbers up
 
mrklaw said:
I'm going to guess that the 300k number is actually the number of servers that azure uses globally, and not the number specifically allocated to Xbox one, and it is MS mixing the numbers up
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not MIXING them up... but "making the numbers look better"..
 
How the Xbox One draws more power from cloud processing

While Tuesday's Xbox One presentation answered some questions about Microsoft's upcoming system, it left just as many or more unsettled. Luckily, Ars got a chance to sit down with General Manager of Redmond Game Studios and Platforms Matt Booty to try to get more answers. While he wasn't able to answer some of the most pressing questions about the system, he was able to dive deep into some of the technical details.

Our first question had to do with the 300,000-server cloud architecture that Microsoft says the Xbox One will use to help support "latency-insensitive computation" in its games. What does that mean exactly, and can laggy cloud data really help in a video game where most things have to be able to respond locally and immediately?

"Things that I would call latency-sensitive would be reactions to animations in a shooter, reactions to hits and shots in a racing game, reactions to collisions," Booty told Ars. "Those things you need to have happen immediately and on frame and in sync with your controller. There are some things in a video game world, though, that don't necessarily need to be updated every frame or don't change that much in reaction to what's going on."

"One example of that might be lighting," he continued. "Let’s say you’re looking at a forest scene and you need to calculate the light coming through the trees, or you’re going through a battlefield and have very dense volumetric fog that’s hugging the terrain. Those things often involve some complicated up-front calculations when you enter that world, but they don’t necessarily have to be updated every frame. Those are perfect candidates for the console to offload that to the cloud—the cloud can do the heavy lifting, because you’ve got the ability to throw multiple devices at the problem in the cloud."

Booty added that things like physics modeling, fluid dynamics, and cloth motion were all prime examples of effects that require a lot of up-front computation that could be handled in the cloud without adding any lag to the actual gameplay. And the server resources Microsoft is putting toward these calculations will be much greater than a local Xbox One could handle on its own. "A rule of thumb we like to use is that [for] every Xbox One available in your living room we’ll have three of those devices in the cloud available," he said.

While cloud computation data doesn't have to be updated and synced with every frame of game data, developers are still going to have to manage the timing and flow of this cloud computing to avoid noticeable changes in graphic quality, Booty said. “Without getting too into the weeds, think about a lighting technique like ambient occlusion that gives you all the cracks and crevices and shadows that happen not just from direct light. There are a number of calculations that have to be done up front, and as the camera moves the effect will change. So when you walk into a room, it might be that for the first second or two the fidelity of the lighting is done by the console, but then, as the cloud catches up with that, the data comes back down to the console and you have incredibly realistic lighting."

Does that mean that Xbox One games will feature graphics that suddenly get much more realistic as complex data finally finishes downloading from the cloud? "Game developers have always had to wrestle with levels of detail... managing where and when you show details is part of the art of games," Booty said. "One of the exciting challenges going forward is a whole new set of techniques to manage what is going to be offloaded to the cloud and what’s going to come back.”

And what about those times when a gamer doesn't have an active Internet connection to make use of the cloud's computational power? Microsoft has confirmed that single-player games don't have to be online to work, but all this talk of cloud computing seems to suggest that these games might not look or perform as well if they don't have access to a high-speed connection.

"If there’s a fast connection and if the cloud is available and if the scene allows it, you’re obviously going to capitalize on that," Booty told Ars. "In the event of a drop out—and we all know that Internet can occasionally drop out, and I do say occasionally because these days it seems we depend on Internet as much as we depend on electricity—the game is going to have to intelligently handle that." Booty urged us to "stay tuned" for more on precisely how that intelligent handling would work, stressing that "it’s new technology and a new frontier for game design, and we’re going to see that evolve the way we’ve seen other technology evolve."
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Sounds like a lot of the onus is passed to devs. Microsoft will wash their hands off crappy implementations, can see it already.

source: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/...s-more-processing-power-from-cloud-computing/
 
This sort of information seems like it's geared towards the GAFs of the world, and it's instantly shot down by us. So who's do they think they can kid with this?
 
Man said:
Haha. They will keep talking about this and it will never become reality.
You can't rely on cloud computations for a realtime graphics pipeline. If so, why even release a new console...
Watch all multiplatform games be inferior to PS4 outings.
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I wouldn't be so sure about that with developers who love to do direct, sloppy ports of games all the time.
 
quoting myself from the other thread...


ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
Im not an network engineer, but I do feel I have a bit of common sense.

Logistically speaking, to take advantage of this stuff as advertised is going to require a skill set that is far beyond from what we are currently seeing in games for something that at best will only gain pairty with late PS4 games. Even if games look slightly better, its gonna be a nightmare to account for a million different setups and connections.

I honestly want to know, in a time where we barely can get worthwhile netcode for a fighting game, where all thes super network planners an engineers that not only account for all the variables, but also orgainse the game and server calculations so they are perfectly in sync are going to come from?

Not only that, but show me the thought process that makes anyone think that graphical flourises that are present in the lead platform for a game that are coded to hardware (PC and PS4) Will easily and cheaply be ripped out and put into the cloud instead? "Oh rip the trees out and put them in the cloud in the xbox version" Am i naive to believe that thats not how game development works?

While you are at it, can you tell me where the publishers are who will be that concerned with graphical parity between consoles that will invest in these people during development, for little no to proof of an increased return because of it?

Finally, can you find me the people who will be so impressed by this that they will buy a game based on it? Nothing suggested here has not been shown to work on a current generation PC and Last time I checked most games on PC dont even come close to tapping that level of power.

This shit sounds like the worse kind of snake oil because while their may be some true to it in practise its not going to be used to anyone bar microsoft and even spordically because of all the problems it can cause if it goes wrong. The "Cloud" is going to be used many for one thing :- Streaming live video, TV and music to consoles for a fee. anyone who believes different is deluded.
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Would really like an answer to these questions.
 
Amir0x said:
Seriously guys, this shit is just shocking. If ever there was a revelation of how incompetent this industry is at the moment, this is it.

Here is a fucking company who actively has announced things that WILL negatively impact every single consumer on the market... and then, in an attempt to muddy the waters, released literally like five or six different versions of the story to try to pretend it wasn't a problem. Oh hey, WE CAN CONFIRM that no used games is false! Wait, I mean *you* won't pay a fee! See, no fee! Don't look behind the curtain, because we're about to tell you that your friends WILL have to pay! Now hold on, what we mean is you just can't lend games without your friend payin' a fee, you can still resell games! Wait a second, we're just discussing POTENTIAL SCENARIOS. Oh wait, think of it like it's a new game... NO FUCKERS, IT'S NOT A GODDAMN NEW GAME. YOU FUCKING DIRTY NO-GOOD ASSHOLES. Goddamn, Microsoft is the worst company ever. Where were the journalists with a list of all the stories being told about this subject, showing them to the latest bullshit artist representing the Xbox One and demanding some honest straight forward answers?

Ok, so what's next? Oh yeah, hey everyone...if you use CLOUD, the Xbox One will get a billion times stronger! A trillion! A zillion! "But wait," anyone with a shred of fucking intelligence responds, "what happens if the internet goes down? What happens if you don't have as faster of a connection? How would such shit get around the endless cloud service bottlenecks? How will it do any fucking thing you assholes say? Can a fucking game journalist do their job?" Find out at eleven o'clock!

No, you won't be able to rent games! Fuck that shit, what a privilege all you potential thieves out there have had for this long! How dare you have such a right, like trying these gargantuan bloated MODERN AAA pieces of garbage out so you don't waste $60 fucking bucks playing the latest 4 hour hallway corridor generation X-Z nonsense title produced almost entirely by eight thousand board rooms across the planet. But hey, it has multiplayer guys! The same fucking multiplayer you've played in Call of Duty twenty eight thousand times, but it's there! VALUE ADDED!

No, you won't be able to fucking use your games beyond 24 hours if you don't have an internet connection, because we believe your lardy, undeveloped asses are so goddamn lazy that you're willing to actively give up ownership privileges just so you can fucking swap games around a little easier! Of course, that's all bullshit, because this is all an elaborate scheme to fuck piracy up some more, even though every fucked up DRM scheme that has been tried this past generation has reamed honest, hard-working and hard-payin' consumers so far up the ass that they have gaping holes larger than what's at the center of the fucking Milky Way Galaxy.

Now there are obviously exceptions. Some game journalists are raging. But this shit is ridiculous. EVERY major website right now should be eviscerating Microsoft. IGN should be fucking vomiting at these decisions every five second around the clock until the system launches. They should be disemboweling these pathetic PR representatives of these hateful corporations, spitting their sludge all over the faces of everyone who ever purchased games from them, denying them even a second to mislead legions of consumers into thinking the system is anything except what it is: the world's biggest fucking cock being whipped out and slapped across your goddamn face!

Oh, what about this shit? Why is your focus during your GAME CONSOLE reveal fuckin' TV? Why have you chosen your philosophy? WHY should gamers take this shit lying down? WHAT BENEFIT DOES IT HAVE TO YOUR CUSTOMERS!? For the love of Christ, someone ask some hard goddamn questions! You are all informed to the tit, please use your knowledge to slash these assholes throats so that all the bullshit will spill out and we'll stop having to swim through torrents of anti-consumer diarrhea!
Click to expand...

A bit late, but i want to show my appreciation for this post.
 
Festwill said:
It can not work in the way that one MS rep advertised it, it will not multiply the power of the xbone by 4.


We can agree on that. So it actually is bullshit.
Click to expand...

It can still be true, while being irrelevant or deceiving. Having 3 times the amount of local computation done in the cloud is possible. In theory, you could send the data to a supercomputer and have it run 1000 times more operations, why not (except for the cost of it, naturally). You'll end up with an AI 1000 times more complex, but with unchanged graphics or framerate.

The deceiving part is that if you say "4 times the power", most people will understand it as everything being 4 times better. It's not the case. It just means that you will have much more resources available for certain tasks, those that don't require to be handled locally.
And since most current games are designed to run locally, so are their common tasks, so the cloud would be mostly interesting for new features, that games traditionally couldn't even consider because they would take too much resource. Of course that last point is only theory, it remains to be proven that such new features are relevant enough for gaming.
 
With infinite power, comes infinite developer time.
Is MS also planning to multiply their dev numbers like their servers and send 100 of them on every game for XBO to be optimized for cloud computing ? Holy hell.
 
It really is beyond the pale to suggest that server-side calculations are going to be part of game design toolset anytime soon. When your PR mouthpieces are explaining your tech, everybody knows what that means. What the magic Azure Cloud can do is, over time, serve small non-realtime games. That's what any cloud computing system can do. True integration is not only deceitful as a selling point in 2013, it is debatable whether it will ever be anything else. The product they DO have is actually compelling, that's the sick thing. Explain what you're investing in, what you actually plan to do, and sell us on the future. Tell us to invest in the system because you are.

All of this reminds me of the Cell-computes-in-local-networks chatter in 2006.
 
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