#PS4NoDRM #XboxOneNoDRM || Now do you "Believe?"

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Please be excited?
 
What'll you do if Sony does essentially the same?

I will be really bummed out and mad.

Depending on what they announce for launch, (If Versus somehow makes launch or something else...then I'm buying one no matter what) I might be weak enough...

otherwise i'd buy a Wii U ASAP mainly out of anger.

In 1-2 years, I will relent and buy one because I am weak.

So basically, they go full stupid with DRM: Wii U right away, PS4 much later.

If they leave it up to pubs (because let's be honest...there will be some kind of DRM), then it's up to the launch titles but close to day 1.

they somehow don't do any..then it's day 1 for support purposes...fuck good launch games.
 
I will still purchase the PS4, but will be disappointed. I really hope they are still wavering, because this is no small movement. This is the beauty of social networking. It takes very little effort to make a difference.
 
Yeah, if the publisher go for the first one then Sony can pull the plug on PS3 releases. No timed exclusive games. It is more likely that MS will get some token timed exclusive DLC and free co-marketing for Xbone.

Btw, an agreement like that which restricts consumer rights would be viewed very dimly by the EU Competition Commission. MS, EA, Sony, Activision and the rest had better hope that no such agreement exists or they could all be fined for forming a collusion and their products could be banned from sale within the EU which would be devastating to all gaming companies.

I'm sure whatever agreement has been struck has been done so to cover EU law. There no way either Sony nor MS would DRM a console if they didn't know what each other was doing.
 
I will still purchase the PS4, but will be disappointed. I really hope they are still wavering, because this is no small movement. This is the beauty of social networking. It takes very little effort to make a difference.

80 million PS3 customers, this campaign is covering a tiny minority of them. Thats not to say it hasn't or will be successful.
 
Well the morning I think has been pretty good from what insight I can bring from traffic to the open letter page.

There have been several visits from SCEE across the morning and early afternoon.

There have been visits from multiple publishers in Europe.

There's even been a visit from SCEA's PS4 launch ad agency.

After lunch I'm going to re-optimise the tweet links for US based contacts, in time for working hours there.
Sweet!
We definitely need to get more support from the US.
 
I'm sure whatever agreement has been struck has been done so to cover EU law. There no way either Sony nor MS would DRM a console if they didn't know what each other was doing.

To cover EU competition law it would need to be done on the basis of nods and winks rather than contractual obligation. That means any current agreement Sony have can be reversed without any real trouble. Also with EA Sports games already announced for PS4 it would be very troublesome for EA to explain why they would no longer released them should Sony decide to dump the DRM.
 
80 million PS3 customers, this campaign is covering a tiny minority of them. Thats not to say it hasn't or will be successful.

Considering this just started yesterday, I think it has time to pick up steam and quickly. It may be too late, but I remain hopeful. It takes little effort, simply typing something and clicking a button. That is what will make this movement grow.
 
Perhaps you can add another viral layer to the movement by messaging your PS3/Vita friends list via PSN messages with a note to both tweet and pass it on via psn?
 
I'm a consumer too, and I'm no hypocrite. I've sold old games in order to buy new ones, picked up a used game and ended up becoming a fan of the developer, and wouldn't dream of trying to keep anyone who's enjoyed my games from trading it in towards something else. Now - is it annoying as hell to see a retailer or reseller attempt to sell me a used game for 5 bucks less than new? Absolutely. Would I like to see some of that money go back to the developer/publisher/financial stakeholders? Sure! I'd be lying if I said I didn't.

Unless or until this industry can figure out a way to make that happen without passing additional costs over to the customer, however, the status quo - consumer rights intact - should remain. Used games and lack of DRM aren't the reason behind developers going under. It's the homogenization of design, the approval of unrealistic development and marketing budgets for B-tier titles competing in the AAA-tier space. Know who you are and spend accordingly, instead of chasing a very small slice of the pie that's already committed to the one or two behemoths in that particular genre, whether it be FPS, MOBA, what have you.

Some motherfuckers always trying to ice-skate uphill.


LMAO! BISH! Did we just become best friends?
 
To cover EU competition law it would need to be done on the basis of nods and winks rather than contractual obligation. That means any current agreement Sony have can be reversed without any real trouble. Also with EA Sports games already announced for PS4 it would be very troublesome for EA to explain why they would no longer released them should Sony decide to dump the DRM.

As I said whatever agreement they have in place! As for EA off course they will release all titles on PS4, they may do so though later if MS stays DRM locked and Sony doesn't. However looking at it logically if Sony or MS pulls the DRM plug the other will follow. Where that leaves publishers is another thing (especially after EA pulled the online pass), though as i'm pretty sure they have budgeted for DRM royalties.
 
80 million PS3 customers, this campaign is covering a tiny minority of them. Thats not to say it hasn't or will be successful.

I'd argue that their target for the PS4, at least initially, are a minority of that group as well

But what we’re all about, in our DNA, is the gaming and the gamers. You buy [PlayStation] because you’re a gamer and you enjoy playing games, and you use it for other purposes, but we’re first and foremost about that core gamer that eats sleeps and drinks the gaming. I think there are more gamers today than there have been ever before, and the core is really strong, and loyal.

http://allthingsd.com/20130221/seve...ck-tretton-following-the-playstation-4-event/

Deirdre Bolton: Okay, which almost makes me feel like you are doubling down on serving hardcore gamers, and I know you have some significant improvements. I mean, Don mentioned it--social, mobile--I mean people can start games on a smartphone, pick it up on the console, friends can finish each other's games, make videos of themselves playing the games, send it to each other-----is this enough A., to keep the hardcore gamers happy, it seems like, but B., it feels like you need to pick up a few (let's say more recreational) "lighter" gamers to have it really be a home run.

Jack Tretton: Well, the casual experience is going to be there, and it's already there on the PlayStation 3. We have free-to-play models, we have 99 cent games, but the real heat behind the gaming industry--behind the PlayStation consumer--is that dedicated gamer, and they're who we're speaking to, they're who we start with, and they get it. And that audience is growing. We've sold 30% more consoles this generation as opposed to the previous generation.

http://www.businessweek.com/videos/2013-02-21/sonys-tretton-on-playstation-4-industry-outlook

They're using this console to target the exact people that will be or are already pissed about the idea of DRM.
 
I am friends with Sony's PlayStation VP in Canada on facebook. Been talking with the guy for around 15 years now through an old message board we used to visit, but now we talk on Facebook.

Anyway, I run a gaming group there that he's a member of. This morning I posted the GAF thread, the open letter site, and some general twitter stuff on the page for the gaming group.

Dude rolls in and responds to the GAF link:
"Yes, Sony is listening :)"

Made me feel good.

Sorry, but I don't want to give out his name for fear of seeing him bombarded with messages. Still wanted to share though. Let's keep it up!
 
I am friends with Sony's PlayStation VP in Canada on facebook. Been talking with the guy for around 15 years now through an old message board we used to visit, but now we talk on Facebook.

Anyway, I run a gaming group there that he's a member of. This morning I posted the GAF thread, the open letter site, and some general twitter stuff on the page for the gaming group.

Dude rolls in and responds to the GAF link:

Made me feel good.

Sorry, but I don't want to give out his name for fear of seeing him bombarded with messages. Still wanted to share though. Let's keep it up!

Thanks for this. It isn't all for naught! Keep up the good work guys.
 
I am friends with Sony's PlayStation VP in Canada on facebook. Been talking with the guy for around 15 years now through an old message board we used to visit, but now we talk on Facebook.

Anyway, I run a gaming group there that he's a member of. This morning I posted the GAF thread, the open letter site, and some general twitter stuff on the page for the gaming group.

Dude rolls in and responds to the GAF link:

Made me feel good.

Sorry, but I don't want to give out his name for fear of seeing him bombarded with messages. Still wanted to share though. Let's keep it up!

Thats awesome
 
I am friends with Sony's PlayStation VP in Canada on facebook. Been talking with the guy for around 15 years now through an old message board we used to visit, but now we talk on Facebook.

Anyway, I run a gaming group there that he's a member of. This morning I posted the GAF thread, the open letter site, and some general twitter stuff on the page for the gaming group.

Dude rolls in and responds to the GAF link:

Made me feel good.

Sorry, but I don't want to give out his name for fear of seeing him bombarded with messages. Still wanted to share though. Let's keep it up!

Awesome.
 
As I said whatever agreement they have in place! As for EA off course they will release all titles on PS4, they may do so though later if MS stays DRM locked and Sony doesn't. However looking at it logically if Sony or MS pulls the DRM plug the other will follow. Where that leaves publishers is another thing (especially after EA pulled the online pass), though as i'm pretty sure they have budgeted for DRM royalties.

They wouldn't even be able to do a late release. I feel like we're going around in circles right now, but I will explain it one last time. Sony are the platform holder where third party publishers make almost 50% of their revenue, if they treated PS4 any worse than Xbone they would have to be prepared for retribution from Sony.

Logically, if Sony dumped the DRM the publishers would have to support PS4 regardless but they may give MS some DLC sweeties and co-marketing with their games.

I would expect EA to reintroduce online-passes for their games on PS4 regardless of their unpopularity. That would be the compromise, and it's not like Sony don't have it either...
 
I am friends with Sony's PlayStation VP in Canada on facebook. Been talking with the guy for around 15 years now through an old message board we used to visit, but now we talk on Facebook.

Anyway, I run a gaming group there that he's a member of. This morning I posted the GAF thread, the open letter site, and some general twitter stuff on the page for the gaming group.

Dude rolls in and responds to the GAF link:

Made me feel good.

Sorry, but I don't want to give out his name for fear of seeing him bombarded with messages. Still wanted to share though. Let's keep it up!
Makes me feel good too - thanks for sharing.
 
I am friends with Sony's PlayStation VP in Canada on facebook. Been talking with the guy for around 15 years now through an old message board we used to visit, but now we talk on Facebook.

Anyway, I run a gaming group there that he's a member of. This morning I posted the GAF thread, the open letter site, and some general twitter stuff on the page for the gaming group.

Dude rolls in and responds to the GAF link:

Made me feel good.

Sorry, but I don't want to give out his name for fear of seeing him bombarded with messages. Still wanted to share though. Let's keep it up!
Awesome.
The wait for E3 is unbearable. :S
 
I am friends with Sony's PlayStation VP in Canada on facebook. Been talking with the guy for around 15 years now through an old message board we used to visit, but now we talk on Facebook.

Anyway, I run a gaming group there that he's a member of. This morning I posted the GAF thread, the open letter site, and some general twitter stuff on the page for the gaming group.

Dude rolls in and responds to the GAF link:

Made me feel good.

Sorry, but I don't want to give out his name for fear of seeing him bombarded with messages. Still wanted to share though. Let's keep it up!

Haha, awesome. Glad to hear people at different parts of Sony are listening as well.
 
I am friends with Sony's PlayStation VP in Canada on facebook. Been talking with the guy for around 15 years now through an old message board we used to visit, but now we talk on Facebook.

Anyway, I run a gaming group there that he's a member of. This morning I posted the GAF thread, the open letter site, and some general twitter stuff on the page for the gaming group.

Dude rolls in and responds to the GAF link:

Made me feel good.

Sorry, but I don't want to give out his name for fear of seeing him bombarded with messages. Still wanted to share though. Let's keep it up!

That is great news and echoes a lot of the chatter here this morning.
 
To cover EU competition law it would need to be done on the basis of nods and winks rather than contractual obligation. That means any current agreement Sony have can be reversed without any real trouble. Also with EA Sports games already announced for PS4 it would be very troublesome for EA to explain why they would no longer released them should Sony decide to dump the DRM.

actually nods and winks is enough to get them, as long as there is evidence of some concludent cooperation (which does not have to include communication) between them and their actions and behaviour can be related to a common goal regarding their common marketplace

I am friends with a person in Sonys management in a country on facebook. Been talking with the guy for around 15 years now through an old message board we used to visit, but now we talk on Facebook.

Anyway, I run a gaming group there that he's a member of. This morning I posted the GAF thread, the open letter site, and some general twitter stuff on the page for the gaming group.

Dude rolls in and responds to the GAF link:

Made me feel good.

Sorry, but I don't want to give out his name for fear of seeing him bombarded with messages. Still wanted to share though. Let's keep it up!

you know you more or less already has named him by stating his position in a specific country?

see my badly written rephrased suggestion above
 
What'll you do if Sony does essentially the same?
In theory, they can't be doing the same thing at least in terms of how they'd implement DRM if they did. The PS4 doesn't require an internet connection.

If their "solution" still allowed for lending, renting, gifting and private sale of retail games, and wasn't systemic (i.e. on a per publisher basis), then that would at least be an improvement over what various comments seem to imply about Microsoft's online-check DRM that sounds like it would prevent the above.

It would still be better if they didn't implement any system though, so hopefully this campaign influences that decision.
 
I am friends with Sony's PlayStation VP in Canada on facebook. Been talking with the guy for around 15 years now through an old message board we used to visit, but now we talk on Facebook.

Anyway, I run a gaming group there that he's a member of. This morning I posted the GAF thread, the open letter site, and some general twitter stuff on the page for the gaming group.

Dude rolls in and responds to the GAF link:

Made me feel good.

Sorry, but I don't want to give out his name for fear of seeing him bombarded with messages. Still wanted to share though. Let's keep it up!

Excellent news! Thanks for sharing this!
 
Both the person who started it and the sentiment of this thread really make it the epitome of the Internet.

All I will say is, is you think publishers are going to be happy with only having 1 platform holder have some form of DRM that allows them to recoup money from used games sales, you are all astoundingly naive.

#therealworld #growup #gamesareexpensive
 
I am friends with Sony's PlayStation VP in Canada on facebook. Been talking with the guy for around 15 years now through an old message board we used to visit, but now we talk on Facebook.

Anyway, I run a gaming group there that he's a member of. This morning I posted the GAF thread, the open letter site, and some general twitter stuff on the page for the gaming group.

Dude rolls in and responds to the GAF link:

Made me feel good.

Sorry, but I don't want to give out his name for fear of seeing him bombarded with messages. Still wanted to share though. Let's keep it up!
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(mesmerizing, isn't it?)
 
I am friends with Sony's PlayStation VP in Canada on facebook. Been talking with the guy for around 15 years now through an old message board we used to visit, but now we talk on Facebook.

Anyway, I run a gaming group there that he's a member of. This morning I posted the GAF thread, the open letter site, and some general twitter stuff on the page for the gaming group.

Dude rolls in and responds to the GAF link:

Made me feel good.

Sorry, but I don't want to give out his name for fear of seeing him bombarded with messages. Still wanted to share though. Let's keep it up!

Very nice.

I wonder if Sony as a whole is ever going to publicly acknowledge this.
 
I disagree. This shouldn't be a campaign to make Microsoft cave in, but to make them look like the bringer of evil to the gaming consumer.

I think a much more useful tactic would be to fill Microsoft's twitter account with #PS4noDRM and #PS4UsedGames.

I hope you are not serious. If you think Microsoft is bringer of evil when it comes to anti-consumerism, you should go read on Sony history of DRM implementations and various anti-consumer tactics. From their shitty trojan music DRM, proprietary storage device, proprietary disc format, pioneering of on-line pass just to name a few.

I have no love for Microsoft new DRM scheme, nor did I ever enjoy Steam or Blizzard implementations (though seems much of NeoGAF are all OK with Steam who essentially initiate this on-line activation DRM, anti-consumer scheme in the first place).
 
Both the person who started it and the sentiment of this thread really make it the epitome of the Internet.

All I will say is, is you think publishers are going to be happy with only having 1 platform holder have some form of DRM that allows them to recoup money from used games sales, you are all astoundingly naive.

#therealworld #growup #gamesareexpensive

Who said we think they'd be happy?
 
actually nods and winks is enough to get them, as long as there is evidence of some concludent cooperation (which does not have to include communication) between them and their actions and behaviour can be related to a common goal regarding their common marketplace



you know you more or less already has named him by stating his position in a specific country?

see my badly written rephrased suggestion above

I'm sure he's already been hearing about this to an extent. And people should know he's not in a position to change anything, and that if they want to bombard him their efforts are better directed at the targets listed in the OP.
 
In theory, they can't be doing the same thing at least in terms of how they'd implement DRM if they did. The PS4 doesn't require an internet connection.

If their "solution" still allowed for lending, renting, gifting and private sale of retail games, and wasn't systemic (i.e. on a per publisher basis), then that would at least be an improvement over what various comments seem to imply about Microsoft's online-check DRM that sounds like it would prevent the above.

It would still be better if they didn't implement any system though, so hopefully this campaign influences that decision.

So it is confirmed that you don't have to have a internet connection?
 
Who said we'd think they'd be happy?

You are part of the astoundingly naive contingent.

Why would a platform holder be the one to push DRM? It doesn't really benefit them all that much in the long run.

This is being pushed by publishers. MS is just doing it at the system level.

Do you think EA got rid of the online passes because they are swell guys?

#gameBUSINESS
 
Both the person who started it and the sentiment of this thread really make it the epitome of the Internet.

All I will say is, is you think publishers are going to be happy with only having 1 platform holder have some form of DRM that allows them to recoup money from used games sales, you are all astoundingly naive.

#therealworld #growup #gamesareexpensive

I think most people in here are sorta expecting the worst (or at least somewhere in between)? We're just making our voices heard so that Sony can't turn around and feign ignorance.

At the end of the day, I'm totally prepared to give up new games if I feel I'm left with no other option by all the platform holders. Feel like my consumer rights are more important than getting to shoot an army man in an ever more realistic looking face. I'm expecting to go PC/Nintendo only. And I'm fine with that.

But if you can't express an opinion without being called naive... then that is depressing.
 
Both the person who started it and the sentiment of this thread really make it the epitome of the Internet.

All I will say is, is you think publishers are going to be happy with only having 1 platform holder have some form of DRM that allows them to recoup money from used games sales, you are all astoundingly naive.

#therealworld #growup #gamesareexpensive

Yeah, this is a topic that is trying to do something positive and you are shitting all over it.

But, let's not derail things.
 
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