Microsoft's E3 conference date is Monday, June 10th

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smerfy said:
That'd be most awesome of you! I'll go back a few pages and see what I can pull up. If I could work photo-editing software, I'd do it myself...but IT training is clogging my mind and I'm unwilling to learn.
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I managed to find two of the trains. Just looking for the version with nobody on it now.
 
smerfy said:
No, I understand what a conflict of interest is for a representative is. I think it's quite judgmental/presumptuous of you to determine my comprehension.

Here are appropriate responses if there is a conflict of interest:

"We do not comment on rumors or speculation."
"No comment."
Or my personal favorite, say nothing at all. It's twitter.

If there is a conflict of interest, it's in the company's best interests to not lie. Short-term gains from 'debunking' a rumor that turns out to be true is detrimental to the image of a company in the long-term. It not only compromises whatever messages you send about the product you lied about, but it has a carry-effect to your other products.

Also, there are 2 specific rumors, interrelated as they are. 1. Yield issues with eSRAM and 2. Because of rumor 1, MSFT is downclocking the GPU to reduce heat and improve yields.

Maybe both are unsubstantiated, maybe 1 was an issue that was dealt with months ago, but the fact remains: there are better options in PR than lying and Microsoft have demonstrated on many occasions their willingness to use said options.
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Sure. Lying is my go to because I find many PR guys to be slimy. But let's also recognize he isn't a hardware engineer, so he simply may be unaware or misinformed. Companies get away with lying all the time, especially in gaming, because we don't have journalists. Rumor #2 is still a rumor. Rumor #1 is not a rumor. It is a TRUTHFACT. You do realize that one poster Matt (not CBOAT) isn't a third-party? But a first-party insider? You do realize this is the company that said the Xbone is 40x more powerful than the 360 because magic?
 
killer rin said:
I managed to find two of the trains. Just looking for the version with nobody on it now.
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Here you go :)

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smerfy said:
Watched the madness unfurl today.

Major Nelson and Aaron Greenburg come out and say that a certain 'rumor' on neoGAF is totally false. Can't stop this hate train a'rollin. CBOAT is more credible than the company making the console confirmed...smh

Major Nelson also releases all the info that he was gathering. Not nearly as bad as previously thought...or apparently worse. Depends on who you ask here.

It's not that hard to figure out the policy. I read it and thought, "I'm okay with this. In fact, some of this stuff is actually cool."

I get that people here aren't the same as me, but it's literally out of control in a few of these threads. Literally pulling anything that hasn't been explicitly stated and turning it into the worst possible scenario. So, even though Microsoft said they're working on an exemption from verification for military overseas and a few other things, apparently that's a lie or something.

What can I take out of today from NeoGAF? Everything that Microsoft says, will say and has ever said is a complete lie in order to brainwash us into forgoing our 'consumer rights' because Microsoft is vehemently anti-consumer and don't even compare it to Steam, because it's open platform. Apples to oranges. Blah blah blah

I also learned that all of my opinions are wrong and subject to be hated in certain threads. Shame on me for looking forward to a console.

Also, a lot of casualties today...pour one out for our homies. FordGTguy, your memory lives on...for as long as you are banned, we will never forget.

Gotta find someone willing to take up his mighty hype-train banner.
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I haven't been on GAF for too long. I've been lurking since the PS4 reveal and created my account in March. Who is this CBOAT guy? I've seen his posts and can hardly even understand a word of it and people take it like it's Gospel. Can anyone shed some light? I'm completely confused haha. I'm not questioning his credibility, it just seems...odd.

About the whole under clocking issue and hardware debate, I've never understood it. The PS4 and X1 are both pretty good pieces of hardware. These aren't Wiis were talking about here.Look at games like Red Dead Redemption, Halo 4, the Uncharted series, Bioshock Infinite, these games were made on 512 MB of RAM! The X1 has ten times that amount for games. Games are going to be amazing on both systems.

Going through the list put out by MS today, I can deal with the 24 hour check. Even if my internet did go out for a long time, which it hasn't ever I think, I can use my phone as a wifi hotspot and quick hook up the console to it and check it again. The only thing that worries me is in 20 years, what will happen to my games but that's years down the road, who knows what's going to happen in that time.

Back on the subject of E3, I love the idea of a pre and post show, each with their own exclusive reveals. With all this negativity going around, you can't argue that no matter what platform you use, PC, PS4, X1, WiiU, it's going to be a damn good E3

EDIT: And FordGT is gone? Oh well, so many fallen brothers today. I'll take a shot in everyone's honor.
 
If MS audience at their conference is representative of gamers in the internet, what are the odds we hear people boo?
 
This all does not affect me personally, I have 300 games on Steam that I will never play again and can not trade in. The 24hour check stuff is a bit weird, I just don't get why it's needed. Digital copies day 1 is something I wanted so this is also a plus for me.
 
Woggerman said:
Have you read most of the threads here? It is definitely leaning toward a "forum-wide cabal". BTW i like that term.

I'm not being thick skinned. I was upset about some of the policies at the outset of the release. When I thought it over rationally, I realized that I really don't buy or sell used games very much. I stay connected almost all of the time. I don't lend out or rent games.
So for me I don't really have that much of a problem.
Don't get me wrong, I understand the vitriol toward these policies. I completely agree that for many people this is a major obstacle for them. I want them to be vocal about it.
However, to demean and publicly berate people for defending the policies or saying they are fine with them shouldn't be acceptable. Say you disagree, give some reasons why, debate it. Calling them names shouldn't be an option.
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It's not a cabal because it's not orchestrated. It's just a momentum swing. You also have to realize the applicability of your position versus mine. I do rent games, I do let friends borrow my titles, but I do not buy used. My position, by default, is more friendly to a community of gamers -- gamers here on GAF versus yours. Though your position is no less valid for you personally.

1. It doesn't affect me; therefore, I do not care...

vs

2. It doesn't affect me, but I am outraged by such decisions and wish to show solidarity because I recognize myself as part of a consumer base and not just an individual

vs

3. It does affect me; therefore, I am outraged...


All of these are personal positions, some are just more cognizant of others... so you might see that as hostility.
 
MuseManMike said:
Sure. Lying is my go to because I find many PR guys to be slimy. But let's also recognize he isn't a hardware engineer, so he simply may be unaware or misinformed. Companies get away with lying all the time, especially in gaming, because we don't have journalists. Rumor #2 is still a rumor. Rumor #1 is not a rumor. It is a TRUTHFACT. You do realize that one poster Matt (not CBOAT) isn't a third-party? But a first-party insider? You do realize this is the company that said the Xbone is 40x more powerful than the 360 because magic?
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I'm just saying that for multiple people in Microsoft to come out and vehemently deny something...let's be honest here, they're walking on eggshells. After the post-reveal debacle and the mixed messaging, Larry Hyrb has done a good job of not throwing anything unsubstantiated out there.

Like I said, maybe #1 was an issue...but that doesn't mean that #2 IS an issue, which even after the tweets people are still clinging to.

The validity of one thing does not automatically equal the validity of another.

Also, who are we to know how the 'cloud' infrastructure will work? Offloading non-latency sensitive things is a real possibility. AI, physics for some things could theoretically be computed off-site. I'd rather reserve judgement until we understand what the developers are working with when it comes to that kind of infrastructure.

Maybe it's just me being a pragmatist, but I don't like to jump on something unless it's been substantiated or debunked. I like to wait until I get at least something of a full picture.

Anyways, there are differing opinions. People come from different sides of things. I just wish that there was a little bit more respect for differing opinions and choices in a few threads and not the extreme wave of vitriol being regurgitated post after post, as if they're trying to build for a combo. Then again that's just MY opinion, to which I am entitled to.
 
Woggerman said:
nope. just my opinion. It's cool if you disagree.
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How does a forum made up of thousands of people have a "target audience?" What the hell are you talking about? Who are you to suddenly come in here and play victim just because the majority of gamers here disagree with your love of Microsoft and their shitty policies?
 
Miles Quaritch said:
So where's everyone hanging out if/when GAF crashes?

Google hangout? Twitch? Someone fill me in...
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Karak's Twitch channel? Got a bit spammy last time though, somewhere else maybe instead?

Zefah said:
How does a forum made up of thousands of people have a "target audience?" What the hell are you talking about? Who are you to suddenly come in here and play victim just because the majority of gamers here disagree with your love of Microsoft and their shitty policies?
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Who are you to come in HERE and tell people how to post?
 
Hix said:
4. It affects me but not enough to dissuade me from buying an Xbox One.

I think you'll find this category is not insignificant.
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Sure. But in that category, the poster is aware of why people are on edge. So you wouldn't necessary see GAF as a hostile place.
smerfy said:
I'm just saying that for multiple people in Microsoft to come out and vehemently deny something...let's be honest here, they're walking on eggshells. After the post-reveal debacle and the mixed messaging, Larry Hyrb has done a good job of not throwing anything unsubstantiated out there.

Like I said, maybe #1 was an issue...but that doesn't mean that #2 IS an issue, which even after the tweets people are still clinging to.

The validity of one thing does not automatically equal the validity of another.

Also, who are we to know how the 'cloud' infrastructure will work? Offloading non-latency sensitive things is a real possibility. AI, physics for some things could theoretically be computed off-site. I'd rather reserve judgement until we understand what the developers are working with when it comes to that kind of infrastructure.

Maybe it's just me being a pragmatist, but I don't like to jump on something unless it's been substantiated or debunked. I like to wait until I get at least something of a full picture.

Anyways, there are differing opinions. People come from different sides of things. I just wish that there was a little bit more respect for differing opinions and choices in a few threads and not the extreme wave of vitriol being regurgitated post after post, as if they're trying to build for a combo. Then again that's just MY opinion, to which I am entitled to.
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What motivation would people who have built a reputation for being impartial insiders have for lying to this forum? What's more believable: that someone paid by said company would lie or this entire forum can no longer trust their insiders?

Because the "cloud" isn't new -- just rebranded and diluted by PR. I'm not a programmer, but levelheaded programmers on this forum like gofreak and Durante generally agree with what is in the article above. It'll never be a 40x disparity or make up for the very real gap in memory bandwidth and general GPU processing power.
 
MuseManMike said:
It's not a cabal because it's not orchestrated. It's just a momentum swing. You also have to realize the applicability of your position versus mine. I do rent games, I do let friends borrow my titles, but I do not buy used. My position, by default, is more friendly to a community of gamers -- gamers here on GAF versus yours. Though your position is no less valid for you personally.

1. It doesn't affect me; therefore, I do not care...

vs

2. It doesn't affect me, but I am outraged by such decisions and wish to show solidarity because I recognize myself as part of a consumer base and not just an individual

vs

3. It does affect me; therefore, I am outraged...


All of these are personal positions, some are just more cognizant of others... so you might see that as hostility.
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Again, I agree with how you worded the 3 positions. All are acceptable. I'm just saying that all 3 should show each other respect. That's all. Not everyone thinks and feels the same way.

I also understand the anger. I can see how it can be seen as a problem for a large percentage of people. I was supportive of the #NoDRM twitter campaign. I also understand that a lot of these DRM policies are all because many publishers are pressuring Sony and MS to do it as well as MS wanting us to be able to play a game installed with no disc in the system. MS had the bad luck to come out first much earlier than they expected to.

All we can do is see how it shakes out. I hope there is a good compromise, as I would love to play my games on any Xbox One console and not have to have the disc in.
 
smerfy said:
IIRC Karak has a twitch for such special occasions..

I may have lurked it last time >.>
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Hix said:
Karak's Twitch channel? Got a bit spammy last time though, somewhere else maybe instead?
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Oh, cool. Does anyone have a link to the twitch page?

Out of interest, could google hangouts be used for something like this? I haven't familiarized myself with it fully yet, but it seems it might be possible to set up a group? Anyone with more experience using it want to chime in?
 
Woggerman said:
You're absolutely right. I shouldn't just single out NeoGAF. However, most of the prevailing sentiment was spawned from posts here as many of the Youtube folks and members of other forums reference them. It speaks volumes about how instrumental NeoGAF is in helping to shape the opinions of the hardcore community.

It is what it is. I'm not going to say anyone is wrong. We all have our entitled opinions. This one is mine. I have been playing video games since my mother brought home the Sears Atari pong system in 1978. I consider myself hardcore. I have and still own almost every system including that very pong system.

I adapt to the times and enjoy the many games of each generation. It's time to do that once again. I'm happy to do that to enjoy the many new games that will be created.
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I understand that for some people its not a big deal and they like their games more. I hope you can understand the inverse too.
 
Zefah said:
How does a forum made up of thousands of people have a "target audience?" What the hell are you talking about? Who are you to suddenly come in here and play victim just because the majority of gamers here disagree with your love of Microsoft and their shitty policies?
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Are you actually saying that this forum is not targeted to any specific type of gamer....say like a "Hardcore" gamer perhaps? I'm not playing a victim. I'm just saying that people need to think before they berate someone for disagreeing with them. I have all systems and I will be continuing that tradition by buying an Xbox One AND a PS4. I don't love Microsoft's policies. I disagree with many of them. That doesn't stop me from loving many of the games that will be on the system. That is why I am here. For the games. Sony will follow suit to an extent as they want some of those games to come over to their system as well. The publishers are pushing for it and will succeed somewhat. You're right it sucks to have restrictions, but at the end of the day, I want to play the games. I also don't rush to judgement on anything until I see how everything pans out which is what I am doing.
 
After thinking about and re-reading some of the policies stuff, I'm not sure how to feel. Some of it sounded interesting, but other stuff has me concerned. I'm pretty torn about it at this point. The stuff like the 24-hour check-in for example is something that will likely never hinder me, but knowing that it's there is a problem.

Still, I'm excited to see what they have planned for E3 and I will wait before making any final judgement.
 
I bought a 3DS despite Nintendo locking digital content to its hardware. I bought a Vita despite Sony gouging customers with proprietary memory cards. I've been playing my 360 for years despite Gold requirement, although discounts and Bing alleviate that particular issue. Assuming that Microsoft delivers quality titles, I'll likely purchase a One. That doesn't excuse any issues with the console, but if something has games that I want to play strongly enough, I'll purchase it.

I certainly don't agree with Microsoft's used game policy, but I rarely purchase used games only give games away if I'm done playing them. The only time my internet connection has gone down for over 24 hours in the past several years is when a storm killed my power entirely. The more disconcerting aspect on an authenticity check is Microsoft's servers failing, but Live and, more recently, Azure and Office 365, are generally very stable services.

Give me games and I'll be satisfied, is what I suppose I'm saying.
 
Pyscho_Mantis said:
I understand that for some people its not a big deal and they like their games more. I hope you can understand the inverse too.
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Absolutely, I do. Just to get some clarity. I was a manager of Electronics Boutique many years ago. Ultima 8 : Pagan came out and required 6 MB of hard drive space and if I remember correctly the speech pack was 14 MB more. Very few people had more than a 20MB hard drive. It was unreasonable at the time and I was livid that they would require such a crazy amount of space. Why couldn't we just switch disks like all of the other games? I swore I wouldn't play it, but then many other games started to come out requiring the same if not more space. I succumbed and bought a 120mb hard drive. I never looked back.
I realized that things in the gaming world change for a reason. My only hope is that these new policies do bring us some positive changes as well.
I would love to see digital copies be a little less in price than physical ones(I'm sure that won't happen at first, but that may change with enough pressure).
 
Woggerman said:
Absolutely, I do. Just to get some clarity. I was a manager of Electronics Boutique many years ago. Ultima 8 : Pagan came out and required 6 MB of hard drive space and if I remember correctly the speech pack was 14 MB more. Very few people had more than a 20MB hard drive. It was unreasonable at the time and I was livid that they would require such a crazy amount of space. Why couldn't we just switch disks like all of the other games? I swore I wouldn't play it, but then many other games started to come out requiring the same if not more space. I succumbed and bought a 120mb hard drive. I never looked back.
I realized that things in the gaming world change for a reason. My only hope is that these new policies do bring us some positive changes as well.
I would love to see digital copies be a little less in price than physical ones(I'm sure that won't happen at first, but that may change with enough pressure).
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That is a dreadful analogy. Those games required memory because it's more efficient for the game to run certain things off a hard drive. It actually improves the game and experience. Microsofts policies do not. There is no silver lining, it just removes value proposition and control from the consumer.
 
MuseManMike said:
Sure. But in that category, the poster is aware of why people are on edge. So you wouldn't necessary see GAF as a hostile place.

What motivation would people who have built a reputation for being impartial insiders have for lying to this forum? What's more believable: that someone paid by said company would lie or this entire forum can no longer trust their insiders?

.
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nobody is saying cboat is lying it's just that he never said there was a downclock only yield issues... hell the size of that thing you could have asked 100 people and 30 would have said probably yield issues.


it's just that people have mistakenly assumed that there is a downclock based on him saying there were yield issues... not lying , people jumping to the conclusion that they want to be true before there are facts

and let's be honest, the level of technical discussion can be pretty good here but that's limited to about 100 posters,
the majority of the other 12,900 posting at high times have no f-ing clue what people are talking about and just to know the easiest derivative to parrot in all the other threads and to tell their friends


as for the cloud stuff.. I guess we will all see in time won't we, what's what.
 
Miles Quaritch said:
Oh, cool. Does anyone have a link to the twitch page?

Out of interest, could google hangouts be used for something like this? I haven't familiarized myself with it fully yet, but it seems it might be possible to set up a group? Anyone with more experience using it want to chime in?
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eh, not sure if I want to use Karak's channel again, it was basically all spam and unrestrained anti-Microsoft vitriol at the reveal. A lot of the people on it were GAF lurkers too.

If we could get something like Google Hangouts and limit it to those in here I'd be more interested. I just want to chat about the game announcements, not read walls of "Microsoft sux, always online zzzzz" etc
 
Hix said:
eh, not sure if I want to use Karak's channel again, it was basically all spam and unrestrained anti-Microsoft vitriol at the reveal. A lot of the people on it were GAF lurkers too.

If we could get something like Google Hangouts and limit it to those in here I'd be more interested. I just want to chat about the game announcements, not read walls of "Microsoft sux, always online zzzzz" etc
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Why dont we start a private steam group? PM for access. We can then keep it limited to just us and be able to kick trolls
 
Hix said:
eh, not sure if I want to use Karak's channel again, it was basically all spam and unrestrained anti-Microsoft vitriol at the reveal. A lot of the people on it were GAF lurkers too.

If we could get something like Google Hangouts and limit it to those in here I'd be more interested. I just want to chat about the game announcements, not read walls of "Microsoft sux, always online zzzzz" etc
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yea it was a mini version of the anti MS threads, sadly, just wasted words with people thinking they are funny because they found more inventive ways to insult everything they could think of
 
Hix said:
eh, not sure if I want to use Karak's channel again, it was basically all spam and unrestrained anti-Microsoft vitriol at the reveal. A lot of the people on it were GAF lurkers too.

If we could get something like Google Hangouts and limit it to those in here I'd be more interested. I just want to chat about the game announcements, not read walls of "Microsoft sux, always online zzzzz" etc
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I was a GAF lurker on there =P

Mind you I didn't participate...I stuck to my lurking ways. No way to introduce yourself in that situation.

I wouldn't mind something a bit more controlled. Is there a way to moderate the chat so that we can 'weed out' the people that are just there to spam?
 
nib95 said:
That is a dreadful analogy. Those games required memory because it's more efficient for the game to run certain things off a hard drive. It actually improves the game and experience. Microsofts policies do not. There is no silver lining, it just removes value proposition and control from the consumer.
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So installing the full game to the Xbox One's hard drive won't decrease loading times? Putting you're whole library on it and being able to switch games without switching discs isn't more convenient?
Having the games accessible to you on any console isn't a plus?

I'm not saying these things outweigh the negatives, though I do believe many are blowing it out of proportion. You still will be able to sell your games and buy used. You still can sell or give the game to your friend. The only thing we don't know yet is the ability to rent or lend as they have not given us a clear answer. Just that they are working on it with their partners. Let's wait and see what happens.
 
Klocker said:
nobody is saying cboat is lying it's just that he never said there was a downclock only yield issues... hell the size of that thing you could have asked 100 people and 30 would have said probably yield issues.


it's just that people have mistakenly assumed that there is a downclock based on him saying there were yield issues... not lying , people jumping to the conclusion that they want to be true before there are facts



as for the cloud stuff.. I guess we will all see in time won't we, what's what.
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I'm speaking only of the ESRAM issues.
 
killer rin said:
Why dont we start a private steam group? PM for access. We can then keep it limited to just us and be able to kick trolls
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Sounds plausible, can we arrange for someone to make this happen? Get a link and we can PM a mod and have it put in the OT. GAF rules apply, so no "lol call of doody ms sucks the big 1" spam, discussion only on E3 announcements etc

I'm certainly game for this, of course we need consensus.
 
Hix said:
Sounds plausible, can we arrange for someone to make this happen? Get a link and we can PM a mod and have it put in the OT. GAF rules apply, so no "lol call of doody ms sucks the big 1" spam, discussion only on E3 announcements etc

I'm certainly game for this, of course we need consensus.
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+1 from me.

Sounds like a very good idea :)
 
Hix said:
Sounds plausible, can we arrange for someone to make this happen? Get a link and we can PM a mod and have it put in the OT. GAF rules apply, so no "lol call of doody ms sucks the big 1" spam, discussion only on E3 announcements etc

I'm certainly game for this, of course we need consensus.
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I'm game.
 
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