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[Matugi]

and an avowed racist came up with a pejorative racist term which had a broadly similar, if far more offensive, connotation to the original name.

It was meant to pair with the Red Sox, actually.

 

[theignoramus]

"The Washington Redskins name has thus from its origin represented a positive meaning distinct from any disparagement that could be viewed in some other context," Goodell writes in the letter. "For the team's millions of fans and customers, who represent one of America's most ethnically and geographically diverse fan bases, the name is a unifying force that stands for strength, courage, pride and respect.

such a history of pride and respect:

As a child, the United States Government and the Catholic Church came into our homes, took us away from our families, and forced us into Catholic boarding schools. There was no choice to be had in this matter, you had to go. The Catholic Church with the blessings of the United States Government took it upon themselves to determine that we were savages, and needed to be transformed to fit into their society.

"When my hair was cut short by the priests, I was called a "redskin" and a savage. When I spoke my native tongue, I was beaten and called "redskin". When I tried to follow the spiritual path of my people, I was again beaten and called a "redskin". I was told by them to turn my back on the ways of my people, or I would forever be nothing but a dirty "redskin".

 

[tj hazuki]

So glad they will never change the name.

HTTR

 

[IronStar]

Hahaha! you suck TJ Hazuki! HTTR.

 

[dorkimoe]

I hope they never change it. Nobody is walking around using Redskin as a slur or anything derogatory. University of Illinois was already forced to get rid of their mascot and change their logo. Clevelend indians better change theirs too.

 

[Jburton]

Sure are some ignorant as fuck posts in here but that's never surprising. It's a slur that's been kept simply because there's enough assholes who think it's fine and whine about some PC brigade because god fucking forbid they show some god damn empathy to a group that's been decimated, forced to live on reservations then disrespected year after fucking year with racial epithets and mascots.

Well I have to say that I have a great respect for the Native American tribes destroyed and robbed of their lands, heritage and culture by the United States and if redskins is considered a slur then ban it.


But I don't think this is as meaningful as let's say, giving them their land back etc.

The United States has robbed these people of everything, I think the last thing they give a fuck about is the name of stupid fucking baseball team ........ they have many greater priorities in front of this.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

Well I have to say that I have a great respect for the Native American tribes destroyed and robbed of their lands, heritage and culture by the United States and if redskins is considered a slur then ban it.


But I don't think this is as meaningful as let's say, giving them their land back etc.

The United States has robbed these people of everything, I think the last thing they give a fuck about is the name of stupid fucking baseball team ........ they have many greater priorities in front of this.

So because there's worse things, we can't just take the relatively simple step of just not treating a group of human beings as caricatures?

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Damn Australians

Racism be damned, I still think the original red and black packaging with the Indian on it was better.

Political correctness is a bit over the top sometimes.

 

[Tawpgun]

I'm usually against all this PC shit, but redskins is offensive. I've only talked to like 3 native Americans about it but they all said they don't like their culture being trivialized in sports. We had some Wampanoag people talk to our class and someone asked then what they thought of the redskins, and they said they found it very offensive.

I think this is one of those issues where it's definitely not just white people getting sensy

 

[Pollux]

People dont have a right to be offended. If you're offended, thats unfortunate for you, but the team does not have to change their name if they dont want to.

 

[metalslimer]

People dont have a right to be offended. If you're offended, thats unfortunate for you, but the team does not have to change their name if they dont want to.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[I am Michael Bolton]

People dont have a right to be offended. If you're offended, thats unfortunate for you, but the team does not have to change their name if they dont want to.

No. People have a right to be offended but don't have a right to stop others from offending them.

 

[Ghazi]

Damn man, I knew something would happen to Solice if he found a topic controversial enough to him in Off-Topic. He tends to be a little over the top sometimes, RIP.


But enough meta, I think that it's a slur that was alright with people back when the team formed because native americans weren't treated well but is unacceptable nowadays because of the breakthroughs we've had in equality since then.

People dont have a right to be offended. If you're offended, thats unfortunate for you, but the team does not have to change their name if they dont want to.

Nobody has the right not to be offended by something they find offensive. Obviously you've never heard of Freedom of Speech or Freedom of Thought

 

[Kano on the Phone]

People dont have a right to be offended. If you're offended, thats unfortunate for you, but the team does not have to change their name if they dont want to.

haha what

 

[Shamrock7r]

No. People have a right to be offended but don't have a right to stop others from offending them.

Wrong, People don't have a right to not be offended but have a right to not stop others from offending them.

 

[Vyroxis]

Wrong, People don't have a right to not be offended but have a right to not stop others from offending them.

People have the right to choose if they are offended or not by something. They also have the right to try amd change things that offend them.

 

[I am Michael Bolton]

People have the right to choose if they are offended or not by something. They also have the right to try amd change things that offend them.

They have the right to try but not the right to force. If someone calls me a name I have the right to ask them to stop but I don't have the right to use force to do so.

 

[Aeonin]

Haven't read all the responses, but people should really come up with some viable alternatives instead of just harping on the name. I'm sure GAF could do its thing and prolly one shot it.

With the Lone Ranger coming out - people might be receptive to name that actually incorporates some type of Native American lore, mythology, or history. I'd like to see that and I think it'd be a win/win for their PR.

 

[levious]

Haven't read all the responses, but people should really come up with some viable alternatives instead of just harping on the name. I'm sure GAF could do its thing and prolly one shot it.

With the Lone Ranger coming out - people might be receptive to name that actually incorporates some type of Native American lore, mythology, or history. I'd like to see that and I think it'd be a win/win for their PR.

Keep the name. Change the logo to a redskin potato. Norman Chad came up with that idea back in like 92.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

It's a word that's used to categorize a race and the logo is a caricature of said race. Is it such a huge stretch to just say we can use something different without having to convince you personally that its's a slur?

You would think that if it was a slur, more than 9% of the people it's a slur against would be offended by it.

It just seems like such a stupid thing. Why keep a team name that at the very least toes the racist line? Even with how fucked the state of college sports are, almost all schools policed themselves and took care of this stuff a long time ago.

A portion of the fans would be pissed for a couple years if they changed it, and so what? They'd still go to the games. It's a very passionate fanbase and they're obsessed with football. They'd buy all the new merchandise too, eventually.

Because, rightly or wrongly, an unbelievable amount of resources are tied up in the brand. Teams with the highly recognizable profile of the Redskins don't change their name. The New York Yankees, Dallas Cowboys, Los Angeles Lakers, and Toronto Maples Leafs don't change their name (not that I feel the Redskins are quite in that company.) The Washington Bullets change their name (who?) The Montreal Expos change their name (who?) The Tennessee Oilers change their name (who?) The New York MetroStars change their name (who?) The Mighty Ducks of Anaheim change their name (ok, that one should be obvious.) It takes extremely low brand recognition, re-location, new ownership, or just a ludicrously stupid name to begin with to justify re-branding.

 

[Onion_Relish]

The Washington spirits
The Washington chiefs
The Washington Warriors
The Washington reds
The Washington braves
The Washington natives

Now your turn. Yes I know a bunch of those names are taken no I don't care

 

[Eidan]

Are there any Native American groups indigenous to the Washington D.C. area? Why can't we just ask them if we can use their name?

 

[Dr. Kenneth Noisewater]

They don't need to change the name, and people shouldn't be offended by it. It's just a word. There's no ill-will behind the name. People seem to forget that the words aren't what hurt people, it's how the words are used and the meaning behind the message. The Redskins aren't using it in an offensive way or to demean anyone, so who gives a shit?

 

[samus i am]

Are there any Native American groups indigenous to the Washington D.C. area? Why can't we just ask them if we can use their name?

They were all relocated years ago.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Becuase people can only work on one thing at a time. For the whole country. Right? Such lazy reasoning.

And bitching about a NFL team's name is fucking stupid.

 

[SummitAve]

The moment RG3 runs out of the tunnel in a new Jersey/name is the day Washington couldn't care less about the Redskin tradition. Just change it.

 

[Matugi]

Are there any Native American groups indigenous to the Washington D.C. area? Why can't we just ask them if we can use their name?

I believe there is a local high school (local as in NOVA) that has a lot of Native American students and families that uses the Redskins as their mascot and they all support it.

 

[Mondriaan]

would the same apologetic arguments be put forward about a team called the Washington Darkies or the Fighting Chinamen?
I mean, it only describes an ethnic characteristic like redskin and nobody even uses the word any more.

I'm sure you could find someone dark that would not be offended by the term "darkies", so for some people here that would make it okay because darkie is just a word.

 

[freddy]

I think they still sell these here in Australia.

The Indians have been removed from the packaging as far as I know though.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

The moment RG3 runs out of the tunnel in a new Jersey/name is the day Washington couldn't care less about the Redskin tradition. Just change it.

To appease some fringe PC fanatics? I don't see Washington fans overwhelmingly petitioning the organization to change the teams name to ease their white guilt.

 

[LegendofJoe]

Rich, entitled morons like Dan Snyder himself are immeasurably more offensive to me than the name of a mascot.

 

[Subitai]

The Washington spirits
The Washington chiefs
The Washington Warriors
The Washington reds
The Washington braves
The Washington natives

Now your turn. Yes I know a bunch of those names are taken no I don't care

The Washington Potomacs - the tribe the region is named after.

 

[RedSwirl]

Serious question: are there groups of Native Americans calling for the name change? Maybe I just haven't devoted enough time to looking them up.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

You would think that if it was a slur, more than 9% of the people it's a slur against would be offended by it.

So nine percent of people offended by a racial term is the exact mark where it's ok?

To appease some fringe PC fanatics? I don't see Washington fans overwhelmingly petitioning the organization to change the teams name to ease their white guilt.

It isn't being PC to think that just changing something that has racial overtones to something that definitely doesn't is just an ok thing to do. You're confusing being fanatic with being a decent human being.

This whole "the name is ok even though it isn't something that would ever be offensive to me personally because look, statistics," just blows my mind. What's the resistance to just maybe being decent about something even if there aren't a million people screaming about it? People are so insecure about things changing when they don't want them to, it's weird.

 

[Protein]

I hope the team name is changed one day to something incredibly lame just to spite fans.

 

[richiek]

Serious question: are there groups of Native Americans calling for the name change? Maybe I just haven't devoted enough time to looking them up.

From page 6 of this thread:

New generation of American Indians challenges Redskins

WASHINGTON -- Amanda Blackhorse has never met Daniel Snyder, but she's thought about what she might say to him if she ever does.

"I'd ask him, 'Would you dare call me a redskin, right here, to my face?' " she says. "And I suspect that, no, he would not do that."

Blackhorse is Navajo and a psychiatric social worker and the named plaintiff in Blackhorse et al v. Pro-Football Inc., a federal suit in which a group of five American Indians seek to strip the federal trademark rights from the football team Snyder owns.

Blackhorse and her fellow petitioners say the term redskin is a racial slur and that the National Football League franchise in Washington that has long used it as its name should not have federal protection for a trademark that disparages. Team attorneys say the name is meant to honor American Indians, not disparage them. And Snyder tells USA TODAY Sports that he will never change the name — he even suggested NEVER in all caps.

The issue of Indian mascots in sports has been around for decades. Hundreds of college and high school teams have changed their team names over the years, but professional teams have been less willing to do that. Blackhorse didn't think much about it growing up in Arizona.

"I grew up without a lot of exposure to the outside world," she says. "I lived in this little bitty world onto itself on the Navajo reservation."

She was a student at the University of Kansas in 2005 when she joined a group called Not in Our Honor that planned to protest the use of Indian nicknames outside Kansas City's Arrowhead Stadium before a game between the Chiefs and the Washington team on Oct. 16 of that year.

"We assembled peacefully and we carried signs," Blackhorse says. "We carried flags for the tribes we represented, to show that we are proud people and very diverse, from many different tribes. We wanted to show that we are human beings, not mascots."

Some fans walking to the stadium did not care for that message.

"They yelled at us, 'Get over it.' And, 'Go back to your reservation.' And all the stereotypical things that we are all alcoholics: 'Why don't you go get drunk?' And they shouted so many profanities that I won't repeat."

Blackhorse began the day as a student protester. By day's end, she felt more like an activist for life.

"I got to see firsthand how our culture was being mocked," she says. "So many fans were wearing war paint and feathers and they were whooping and hollering. Some of them got belligerent and angry with us. They threw beer at us. That's not OK. I was afraid for my safety."

 

[Kano on the Phone]

"They yelled at us, 'Get over it.' And, 'Go back to your reservation.' And all the stereotypical things that we are all alcoholics: 'Why don't you go get drunk?' And they shouted so many profanities that I won't repeat."

Blackhorse began the day as a student protester. By day's end, she felt more like an activist for life.

"I got to see firsthand how our culture was being mocked," she says. "So many fans were wearing war paint and feathers and they were whooping and hollering. Some of them got belligerent and angry with us. They threw beer at us. That's not OK. I was afraid for my safety."

She needs to stop being such a PC fanatic.

 

[Amory]

"We assembled peacefully and we carried signs," Blackhorse says. "We carried flags for the tribes we represented, to show that we are proud people and very diverse, from many different tribes. We wanted to show that we are human beings, not mascots."

Some fans walking to the stadium did not care for that message.

"They yelled at us, 'Get over it.' And, 'Go back to your reservation.' And all the stereotypical things that we are all alcoholics: 'Why don't you go get drunk?' And they shouted so many profanities that I won't repeat."

Blackhorse began the day as a student protester. By day's end, she felt more like an activist for life.

"I got to see firsthand how our culture was being mocked," she says. "So many fans were wearing war paint and feathers and they were whooping and hollering. Some of them got belligerent and angry with us. They threw beer at us. That's not OK. I was afraid for my safety."

See this is why it's funny to me that fans of the team and Roger Goodell just keep insisting that the name is steeped in a history of respect. Fact is, none of them really give a shit if that's true or not. They want their stupid racist team name because it's always been their stupid racist team name and they'll be god damned if a bunch of injuns are gonna take it away from them.

It reminds me of that Louis CK bit about how people have gotten to the point where they get pissed if they can't have their FAVORITE THING, 100% of the time.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

"Offended" is a term used just to be dismissive, because it doesn't accurately describe what's actually going on. It's usually meant to be "hurtful," which is what this name is to some people. If I even hurt one person with my words, I'd be sure to change them. I have the ability to get over myself and not fight with people about things that don't actually have personal relevance to me.

 

[Gannd]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What's funny about that? It's true.

 

[I am Michael Bolton]

"Offended" is a term used just to be dismissive, because it doesn't accurately describe what's actually going on. It's usually meant to be "hurtful," which is what this name is to some people. If I even hurt one person with my words, I'd be sure to change them. I have the ability to get over myself and not fight with people about things that don't actually have personal relevance to me.

So if you said 'i like dogs' and someone asked you to stop saying that, you would? Perhaps that person needs to stop expecting that everyone should cater to his/her sensitivities.
They are words. There is no actual damage being done unless the other person gives said words power.

I'm not going to alter my speech just because someone is bothered by a word I use if I don't see anything wrong with said word. If I am advised about the backgroud and history of the word and how it's been used to hurt others and still choose to not cease using it that is on me and although it would be a jackass thing to do, it will be my decision to either cease or continue. Noone elses.

We're not talking about altering your vocabulary at the work place, we are talking about a name of a team that is privately owned and strangers not liking said name and believing that due to how they're offended by the word that the owner should be forced/ pressured to change the name. It's ridiculous.

 

[genjiZERO]

What I don't get is how people loath "Red Skins", but are still aright with the word "Indian" to describe people indigenous to the American continents.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

So if you said 'i like dogs' and someone asked you to stop saying that, you would? Perhaps that person needs to stop expecting that everyone should cater to his/her sensitivities.

Holy shit.

 

[Kid Bushido]

Washington I will Kill Andrew Jackson and his family tree when time machines are invented

 

[Kano on the Phone]

So if you said 'i like dogs' and someone asked you to stop saying that, you would? Perhaps that person needs to stop expecting that everyone should cater to his/her sensitivities.
They are words. There is no actual damage being done unless the other person gives said words power.

I'm not going to alter my speech just because someone is bothered by a word I use if I don't see anything wrong with said word. If I am advised about the backgroud and history of the word and how it's been used to hurt others and still choose to not cease using it that is on me and although it would be a jackass thing to do, it will be my decision to either cease or continue. Noone elses.

We're not talking about altering your vocabulary at the work place, we are talking about a name of a team that is privately owned and strangers not liking said name and believing that due to how they're offended by the word that the owner should be forced/ pressured to change the name. It's ridiculous.

"Some organization which my tax dollars subsidize indirectly through tax exemptions might have to make a transparent change which costs me nothing and I won't notice beyond a 'wow, that's different' for a month to keep some fellow human beings from being genuinely hurt at feeling like who they are at their core is being mocked and I am fucking OUTRAGED."

 

[Jado]

Well few people have issues with Celtics or Vikings as mentioned. Or Fighting Irish.

The Celts were called Celts. Vikings? Vikings. Fighting Irish? The Irish pride themselves on their toughness. The Leprachaun is a short fictional creature from Ireland's own folklore (it's not an Irish human). The Redskins? It's a racist slur maliciously given to Native Americans by European colonisers. Putdown. Against their will. They don't like it.

The equivalent to Redskins is not Celts or Vikings. It's the Niggers, Camel Jockeys, Coons, Kikes, Spics, Chinks, Crackers, etc.

This asshole Dan Snyder would probably be among the first to demand the banning of a team using a Jewish slur.

 

[richiek]

The Celts were called Celts. Vikings? Vikings. Fighting Irish? The Irish pride themselves on their toughness. The Leprachaun is a short fictional creature from Ireland's own folklore (it's not an Irish human). The Redskins? It's a racist slur maliciously given to Native Americans by European colonisers. Putdown. Against their will. They don't like it.

The equivalent to Redskins is not Celts or Vikings. It's the Niggers, Camel Jockeys, Coons, Kikes, Spics, Chinks, Crackers, etc.

This asshole Dan Snyder would probably be among the first to demand the banning of a team using a Jewish slur.

Also, it's important to note that name like Celtics and Vikings were chosen due to the large ethnic communities that reside there (the Irish in Boston, and Scandinavians in Minnesota). Native Americans has pretty much zero input in the choice of names like Redskins and Braves.

 

[richiek]

An open letter to Dan Snyder: Rename the Washington Redskins

So that's why the team is located in suburban Maryland. Good for DC local government.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

So nine percent of people offended by a racial term is the exact mark where it's ok?

That's not what I said.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

That's not what I said.

Actually, it's exactly what you said. What other argument could you be presenting with that?