It seems that way! You know, I'm really not a harsh critic either. It's just when I buy/play a game that has a bigger budget and better resources than most, I expect greater things. It's also by one of the most "talented" and respected developers around. My expectations when playing a so called "AAA" game is much different than any other game and they're hardly ever met. I know I'm generalizing a bit here, but that's just how I feel about these types of games. You have 100's of people, tons of money, advertising power, and top of the line resources and this is what you produce? I'll never understand why games like this get the attention they receive. I guess people really are easily swayed by visuals, I don't know.
The Last of Us |OT| It Cant Be For Nothing (Spoilers)
- Thread starter Pranay
- Start date
It seems that way! You know, I'm really not a harsh critic either. It's just when I buy/play a game that has a bigger budget and better resources than most, I expect greater things. It's also by one of the most "talented" and respected developers around. My expectations when playing a so called "AAA" game is much different than any other game and they're hardly ever met. I know I'm generalizing a bit here, but that's just how I feel about these types of games. You have 100's of people, tons of money, advertising power, and top of the line resources and this is what you produce? I'll never understand why games like this get the attention they receive. I guess people really are easily swayed by visuals, I don't know.
CambriaRising
Member
Enevitably, the AI would fuck you over no matter how good it was. They can either hang back every single time, or follow you and be invisible.
shadyspace
Banned
So ND fucking lied about the autosave glitch being fixed then
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
Not true. At the very least if there truly is no better solution I'd rather the AI sit in some corner while I take care of everything than run around like idiots.
Again it's a small thing and the overall game is really good, but still.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I can't imagine it being much better on the hardware they're working on. To create AI partners that intelligently read and understand all the various enemy patterns, routines, sounds, turns of the head, etc and avoid detection 100% of the time...might just be technically impossible, not to mention astronomically expensive for a game that already has a huge budget.
I'm trying to think of games that are heavy on stealth and have a companion AI from start to finish...Someone give me an example so we can compare. I'd happily concede that the game is an advancement in AI overall. The only other option would be to have a mass effect controllable AI where you tell it where to go or have the companion fade in the background until you clear all enemies ( which would have been the easier solution)
I rather that, then constant game overs or enemies being alerted from AI companions dying constantly and getting caught. ND made the right choice, I commend them for having the balls.
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
Well even if you were to keep them invisible you can make them at least appear a little smarter. I'm not talking about some crazy in-depth AI stealth programming or whatever, just something simple like have them remain in crouch and not sprint while knocking over all the cans on the table.
And there's a bit of trade off. Friendly AI capable of stealth is much harder to design than enemy AI capable of detecting the player or other AI. For friendly AI to do stealth, you'd have to nerf enemy detection AI to some degree and make it even more forgiving than what we currently experience in TLoU.
Some other games have companion AI stay behind while you clear an area, like Elena in the UC games. But, with TLoU, that would deny you one type of play style for an enemy encounter.
I've been playing signed on with no issues. I won't take the chance again though
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
Which is?
CambriaRising
Member
Haven't had an issue.
Exactly. Let's not forget how the game's overall story is designed. The game and story are designed to make you feel like you are PROTECTING ELLIE. It would lose all its impact if ellie would constantly hang in the background while you take out enemy AI.
The human AIs would mostly likely be like MGS. Where soldiers just follow a certain pattern around a room.
MDSVeritas
Member
The fact that it may have happened to someone doesn't mean that Naughty Dog didn't fix the original problem. You'd see a heck of a lot more posts about it if was still happening to the degree it was. What benefit would it give them for them to say they fixed it if they didn't when people would still get the issue?
Avoid clearing the enemies in the area? You can stealth without killing anyone.
â Narayan
Member
Is it just me, or does your flashlight's effectiveness correspond to your controller's battery level?
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
Agreed but it still doesn't change the fact that the AI could of been done better. As I said earlier, nothing fancy just less sprinting and knocking shit over when I'm trying to stealth.
See, I can't do this. Pretend that something flat out retarded isn't a big deal? I totally get that the game would have been more annoying if the enemies/clickers spotted the NPCs, but then that makes me question why even construct the game the way it is if it's going to break the immersion? I get that it's a tough balance for the developers, but when you're striving to create a realistic game with real world applications then I'd rather deal with the annoyances that come with it.
Conscience Falls
Member
It's sure still happening, not on the degree it was before perhaps, but I can personally say it still exists.
Completed.
*wipes tear*
Awesome stuff!
The most impressive story in a game to date, i've played.
Well written, Well Acted,
and, the Gameplay was awesome! Great level design and beautiful Graphics.
I loved Uncharted series for obviously the same reason, but The Last Of Us takes it all further.
It's kinda sad when "game/s" bitchslap, Blockbuster Movies of today. LOL
10/10 from me
I spit on anyone who rates this below a 9'er.
*cough.. gargle wannahockaloogie kack snort vomitinmouth*
lol
Took my time, i never rushed (depending of), and took in all the atmosphere.
Brilliant stuff!
If this gets ported to Playstation 4, yeah, Day 1.
*wipes tear*
Awesome stuff!
The most impressive story in a game to date, i've played.
Well written, Well Acted,
and, the Gameplay was awesome! Great level design and beautiful Graphics.
I loved Uncharted series for obviously the same reason, but The Last Of Us takes it all further.
It's kinda sad when "game/s" bitchslap, Blockbuster Movies of today. LOL
10/10 from me
I spit on anyone who rates this below a 9'er.
*cough.. gargle wannahockaloogie kack snort vomitinmouth*
lol
Took my time, i never rushed (depending of), and took in all the atmosphere.
Brilliant stuff!
If this gets ported to Playstation 4, yeah, Day 1.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Not sure about that, I haven't had any problems after they said it was fixed. Played the single player while it was online and everything.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
Ellie got fucked up when she went to college. She stayed like that for a few minutes even while I got on and off the horse to scavenge. It was even more hilarious because she morphed back via some continuous deformation from her glitched form.
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
Perhaps a system then where you can tell Ellie where to move and she would then do it, without sprinting and knocking shit over (yeah I keep saying this, it really bothered me). That way you wouldn't even need to develop an AI that could understand enemy patterns and whatnot, it would be entirely dependent on you to make sure she moves at the opportune time and is always out of sight.
I suppose even then you could argue you'd lose Ellie's sense of independence, which I can see. But again, I would settle for less sprinting and knocking shit over.
Perhaps a system then where you can tell Ellie where to move and she would then do it, without sprinting and knocking shit over (yeah I keep saying this, it really bothered me). That way you wouldn't even need to develop an AI that could understand enemy patterns and whatnot, it would be entirely dependent on you to make sure she moves at the opportune time and is always out of sight.
I suppose even then you could argue you'd lose Ellie's sense of independence, which I can see. But again, I would settle for less sprinting and knocking shit over.
I definitely agree with you. That is a rather poor design issue, especially in the audio department. I'm playing on hard without listen mode, and [mid game spoiler]
both Tess and Bill
sometimes i game
Member
I'm about two or three hours in. Really liking it, but....
1. Why the fuck does your group do everything so loudly? Slamming down ladders, slamming around items, be fucking quiet what the hell
2. Yeah, NPCs running around on top of Infected and never triggering enemies is weird. An easy fix would be they always stay put while you clear rooms
3. Sometimes runners can see me miles away, other times I can take them down with stealth head first
4. Story is fine, started well and has slowed down
5. This is weird and I know some people are going to think I'm crazy. I don't find this game to be that impressive, visually. It seems technically the pieces are in place, but character models look sort of simple, glossy and underwhelming, and areas are just dark rooms. All decorative items from cars to toasters are really blocky and simple. I find Tomb Raider and Uncharted 3 look better.
Edit: The listening sonar ability is helpful, but what is he, Spider-Man?
1. Why the fuck does your group do everything so loudly? Slamming down ladders, slamming around items, be fucking quiet what the hell
2. Yeah, NPCs running around on top of Infected and never triggering enemies is weird. An easy fix would be they always stay put while you clear rooms
3. Sometimes runners can see me miles away, other times I can take them down with stealth head first
4. Story is fine, started well and has slowed down
5. This is weird and I know some people are going to think I'm crazy. I don't find this game to be that impressive, visually. It seems technically the pieces are in place, but character models look sort of simple, glossy and underwhelming, and areas are just dark rooms. All decorative items from cars to toasters are really blocky and simple. I find Tomb Raider and Uncharted 3 look better.
Edit: The listening sonar ability is helpful, but what is he, Spider-Man?
It certainly can be killer when I am slowly crouching through an area of 5-6 clickers and suddenly, loud footsteps running on me. Freaks me out every time.
Would it be a spoiler to ask what the time frame is for an infected body to pump out spores? The first infected bodies you come across are newly infected I recall. So were the second set, and it did appear like there were spores in the air (or maybe it was dust). And honestly, if I was Joel or any of these people I'd be rockin a gas mask whenever I went out of quarantine.
Good to know that I'm not the only one having AI issues. Too me personally not a perfect 10 game with that in it. Sometimes it feels like playing a Splinter Cell game with a permanent ,dreaded escort mission attached.
The sense of having to protect Ellie also loses its impact when you see Ellie literally bump head on into an enemy and nothing happens. As soon as you realise your companion AI enters dumb, invisible mode during the stealth sections, does that not in itself take away the sense of having to protect her?
I don't think you can have your cake and eat it with this issue. If people are going to (rightly) praise the game for the majority of the time, when it gets the sense of tension and immersion spot on, then you also have to acknowledge that the design decision Naughty Dog made here actively undermines the sense of immersion and tension. It brutally pulls back the curtain every time it happens. Telling people to ignore it simply isn't credible in a game which relies so, so much on its atmosphere and presentation.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Well, this game must be pretty effective, because I dreamt last night that there was this arcade game turning people into runners, and I had to escape from the mall via the service corridors and head out into the country on foot while dodging and killing infected to find an arcade without the game.
PuppetMaster
Member
Just beat it. God damn this was an amazing ride. I can't think of anything I have played that even comes close. Bravo NDog.
10/10
10/10
More_Badass
Member
Surprisingly it hasn't really been that blatant for me. Maybe because I'm so focused on the enemies. But I'm 56% in and for the most part, Ellie stays crouched and gives the illusion of staying hidden. My brother had one really noticeable moment when Ellie and a hunter go through a doorway at the same timePerhaps a system then where you can tell Ellie where to move and she would then do it, without sprinting and knocking shit over (yeah I keep saying this, it really bothered me). That way you wouldn't even need to develop an AI that could understand enemy patterns and whatnot, it would be entirely dependent on you to make sure she moves at the opportune time and is always out of sight.
I suppose even then you could argue you'd lose Ellie's sense of independence, which I can see. But again, I would settle for less sprinting and knocking shit over.
But for me, I really haven't noticed it
Finished the game beginning to end without it happening.
thomasmahler
Moon Studios
Finished the game yesterday night.
You know what this games problem is? It's been too influenced by Super Meat Boy.
Remember when you first played Resident Evil 1? The only time you felt safe was when you just saved and you're close to a Save Room - Other than that, you constantly shat your pants about the possibility of a Zombie jumping through a window, coming out of a closet, etc.
Killing a zombie with a knife in Resident Evil 1 took tons of skill - Yes, the inaccurate controls (Last of Us has those too, btw, combat feels worse than Uncharted to me) were part of it, but that was the beauty behind the design: After knifing a Zombie, you took a deep breath to calm your nerves again.
What they're missing is the feeling of LOSS. Dark Souls - or hell, even ZombiU, shows how to make the player shit his pants: You're SAFE near a save room and then you shit your pants until you reach the next safe room because a lot of time, nerves and effort are at risk every second. Die in The Last of Us and you're just asked to try the last minute of gameplay again until you do it. The constant hand-holding makes sure you're never ever scared about Zombies at all. In Super Meat Boy, the instant-respawn makes sense, since it's JUST ABOUT THE GAMEPLAY - figuring out how to make this or that jump. TLOU isn't. It has a lot of gameplay/control issues and this instant-respawn system makes sure you just never really give a shit about failure.
Story-wise, it's not as well written as Walking Dead was - even though it lifts some ideas straight from that game. It also didn't really end properly, in my opinion, but I won't spoiler anything here.
All in all, I think it's still a 'very good' game - but it's a far cry from the phenomenon the press is making it out to be.
This is the same press bullshit that Bioshock Infinite got: A good game plagued by tons of issues is being praised as the second coming. Hop aboard the hype train everyone!
You know what this games problem is? It's been too influenced by Super Meat Boy.
Remember when you first played Resident Evil 1? The only time you felt safe was when you just saved and you're close to a Save Room - Other than that, you constantly shat your pants about the possibility of a Zombie jumping through a window, coming out of a closet, etc.
Killing a zombie with a knife in Resident Evil 1 took tons of skill - Yes, the inaccurate controls (Last of Us has those too, btw, combat feels worse than Uncharted to me) were part of it, but that was the beauty behind the design: After knifing a Zombie, you took a deep breath to calm your nerves again.
What they're missing is the feeling of LOSS. Dark Souls - or hell, even ZombiU, shows how to make the player shit his pants: You're SAFE near a save room and then you shit your pants until you reach the next safe room because a lot of time, nerves and effort are at risk every second. Die in The Last of Us and you're just asked to try the last minute of gameplay again until you do it. The constant hand-holding makes sure you're never ever scared about Zombies at all. In Super Meat Boy, the instant-respawn makes sense, since it's JUST ABOUT THE GAMEPLAY - figuring out how to make this or that jump. TLOU isn't. It has a lot of gameplay/control issues and this instant-respawn system makes sure you just never really give a shit about failure.
Story-wise, it's not as well written as Walking Dead was - even though it lifts some ideas straight from that game. It also didn't really end properly, in my opinion, but I won't spoiler anything here.
All in all, I think it's still a 'very good' game - but it's a far cry from the phenomenon the press is making it out to be.
This is the same press bullshit that Bioshock Infinite got: A good game plagued by tons of issues is being praised as the second coming. Hop aboard the hype train everyone!
robotzombie
Member
Any suggestions on what to spend my supplement points on first? I have 60 so far, wondering if I should go health first, or maybe try for weapon sway?
I went to increase maximum health since you suffer a lot of damage.
toastyToast
Member
Almost had a heart attack in one section earlier (mid gameish)
God damn!
the bit where Joel gives Ellie the rifle and she's covering while you do that section with like 15 dudes. I had maybe 3 rifle bullets and 5 arrows plus a couple smoke bombs. I attempted to stealth kill someone but then it turned out there were another 2 guys behind him climbing up the stairwell. They pushed me off the dude I was trying to choke and laid into me until I had the opening to throw a smoke bomb. Accidentally dropped two since I was in panic mode then I booked it as far I could which to my luck lead me to a god damn corner with no way out and I had no health at all. For the next 10 minutes I was throwing bricks, threatening dudes with an empty gun and hoping to god that Ellie shot someone.
God damn!
RustyNails
Member
Ok I am not getting good at encounters with fungi people. Can someone tell me how they proceed with their encounters/room full of infected with clickers and runners? (still about 3 hours in)
Lion Heart
Banned
The LFE in this game is ridic. I actually had to turn down the dB on the sub a notch.
Like when the music is solely coming from the LFE, it really sets the mood and creates a tense environment. I pity anyone without a kickass sub.
Only problem is I have an ear condition and my left ear is throbbing like crazy after playing it.
Like when the music is solely coming from the LFE, it really sets the mood and creates a tense environment. I pity anyone without a kickass sub.
Only problem is I have an ear condition and my left ear is throbbing like crazy after playing it.
Krappadizzle
Member
My score for this game would be a 9.7 out of 10. That small .3 differential would be completely based on technical issues. If it ran at a constant 30 fps or ideally 60 fps it'd be masterful. VA is incredible, animation is peerless, score is perfectly timed, lighting is second only to Arma 3, sound design is incredibly immersive and texture work, while it eventually repeats, it feels remarkably unique to each situation.
Playing on Survival, puts a ton of emphasis on actual scrounging around for ammo, supplies, etc... Survival feels how the game should have been played. Even on Hard difficulty, you could manage to build up enough of a stockpile to feel empowered. Survival is all about making every single, every single....... every single fucking shot count. For better or worse.
Playing on Survival, puts a ton of emphasis on actual scrounging around for ammo, supplies, etc... Survival feels how the game should have been played. Even on Hard difficulty, you could manage to build up enough of a stockpile to feel empowered. Survival is all about making every single, every single....... every single fucking shot count. For better or worse.
The_Hitcher89
Member
Any plans for a dedicated multiplayer thread?
Best animation of all time?
Best animation of all time?
You gotta take down the clicker first if possible (stealth with a shiv or melee with a pipe or wood). You can sprint away from the runners and they'll lose you if you get out of their LOS
I did health first and then listening distance. Weapon sway hasn't been an issue cos I'm usually stealthing the tougher enemies
More_Badass
Member
Can you please answer to what is different in Survivor?
So I know there are less supplies...
What about damage and health? Are there remixed enemies, better equipped enemies?
How much more difficult is it than Hard?
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
What about the (mid-game spoiler)
bloaters or whatever they are called? The guys that have been infected for a very long time and throw bombs of spores at you? Is there something I'm missing or is it just a plot whole that you can inhale those spores and only lose a little bit of health but be fine in the long run?
MDSVeritas
Member
I think it was a more nuanced story than TWD. Both were incredible, but there were distinct differences in how the world and characters were presented. Also, I'm sure Last of Us has been in development for quite some time, I don't think they were lifting any major ideas from TWD.