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[LuchaShaq]

Is there any reason GRR Martin doesnt release the entire map?

Or is it just so that he can invent new parts without people going crazy?

He has said on multiple occasions he isn't good with distances/sizes/maps. It's why he never really writes specifically how long it takes for a character to get from location A to location B etc.

I think he is even quoted on saying he made the wall bigger than he meant to haha.

 

[DrForester]

Is there any reason GRR Martin doesnt release the entire map?

Or is it just so that he can invent new parts without people going crazy?

Wait, this book he put out last year isn't a complete map?

 

[ReiGun]

Anyone else in Team White Walkers and hope they just kill everyone so that we can start from scratch? Lets be real everyone vying for the crown is an asshole.

I want there to be a winner. I want one of these assholes to win then realize they've been fighting for nothing cause this war of theirs has thoroughly fucked Westoros.

 

[Iksenpets]

Wait, this book he put out last year isn't a complete map?

No, it still cuts off and has the eastern continent stretching off the edge of the map.

Here's a pic one of the book wikis put together making a world map based on what's in there. Like GRRM said in one of those quotes above, he likes to restrict things to what his characters know and include errors that his characters would make, so there are noticeable differences between this map and the maps in the books and the official map for the show, so this definitely isn't show canon: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/1/10/WorldofIceandFire.png

 

[gotoadgo]

Ramsay is dumb. Without the ability to further the bloodline, Theon is useless.

I think they've made it pretty clear Ramsay isn't of sound mind. He's clearly insane and is doing this more for pleasure than any sort of real tactical advantage.

 

[EatChildren]

Ramsay probably doesn't really give a shit whether the Iron Born leave the North, and a part of him probably wants them to stay so he can flay them.

 

[kellycandthedragons]

Ramsay probably doesn't really give a shit whether the Iron Born leave the North, and a part of him probably wants them to stay so he can flay them.

More like all of him LOL

 

[Guevara]

As the only two named castrati I keep thinking there's going to be some parallel between Theon and Varys. We got Varys' backstory and obviously it's not the same as Theon's (Varys wasn't highborn, etc etc) but maybe less occupied by banging hood rats Theon starts worrying about the health of the realm? Just a theory.

 

[CrocMother]

Never expected to randomly run into Brienne of Tarth nudes photos...

should have kept the hair for the show

 

[kellycandthedragons]

I think they've made it pretty clear Ramsay isn't of sound mind. He's clearly insane and is doing this more for pleasure than any sort of real tactical advantage.

I kind of really want to see him interact with someone besides Theon. Those guys he shot seemed outraged, like it was some big surprise that he was twisted enough to kill his own men. Which makes me think he may be normal when interacting with other people. So more of a secret sicko, which is always way more unsettling. It could explain why those two girls seemed totally okay with his sick joke on Theon. To them he's the nice guy giving the evil, womanizing, child killing monster exactly what he deserves.

 

[vladimirdlc]

I kind of really want to see him interact with someone besides Theon. Those guys he shot seemed outraged, like it was some big surprise that he was twisted enough to kill his own men. Which makes me think he may be normal when interacting with other people. So more of a secret sicko, which is always way more unsettling. It could explain why those two girls seemed totally okay with his sick joke on Theon. To them he's the nice guy giving the evil, womanizing, child killing monster exactly what he deserves.

At least we know his father seems to know about his wicked ways... family secret?

 

[Rorschach]

Ramsay probably doesn't really give a shit whether the Iron Born leave the North, and a part of him probably wants them to stay so he can flay them.

I thought about that, but then there's no need for the ransom note.

And as for value, Theon was held hostage by the Starks for years to keep Balon in line. The second he gets back, Balon launches a war. I would have kept his member in tact or at least not let Balon know about it. I wonder if Bolton knows about the dick in a box.

As the only two named castrati I keep thinking there's going to be some parallel between Theon and Varys. We got Varys' backstory and obviously it's not the same as Theon's (Varys wasn't highborn, etc etc) but maybe less occupied by banging hood rats Theon starts worrying about the health of the realm? Just a theory.

Hey, Grey Worm has a name!

If daddy dearest dies, I think Theon goes out for Bolton's head while everyone is distracted with White Walkers, weddings, and Dragons.

 

[kellycandthedragons]

I thought about that, but then there's no need for the ransom note.

Was it a ransom note though? I don't seem to remember him saying he'd give Theon back if he obeys. Just that if he doesn't, he will send Theon back in little pieces. To a sane person, that implies that if you comply, they will give the person back. But we saw clearly that the man is far from sane. In fact, I would not be surprised if he actually sent the dick first because he knew Theon's father wouldn't care. It would mean he'd have an excuse to do more messed up shit to Theon AND flay more people. "Hey, I did warn them to leave! Not my fault."

Is he smart enough to do that? Maybe. Possibly not. If he is, we are dealing with a family that I'd say is scarier than the Lannisters because it's like a family of meaner Tywins that also shares such interests as backstabbing, torture, and trolling just for funsies.

 

[ReiGun]

Never expected to randomly run into Brienne of Tarth nudes photos...

should have kept the hair for the show

Well....that happened.

 

[toastyToast]

Finally caught up. Man... fucking Starks. I don't even feel bad for them anymore. Ned was a fucking idiot threatening the Queen and committing high treason talking that shit. The same guy who aided in usurping the crown in the first place, but no, as long as it's masked behind duty or honor it can be rationalized somehow. That seems to be their mantra, "If it's a dumb idea, it's probably the right idea." Robb shits on the Freys and then shows his face trying to make nice and expects an army in return. He executes the bannerman that owns half his army because he wanted retribution for something his mother is solely to blame for. Cat letting Jaime go was fucking stupid. It's open war and she sent him with one guard. There wasn't anything guaranteeing his safe delivery and even if it was what she wanted to do, she could have an organized an exchange while keeping Robb in the loop but Robb is a fucking idiot and was too busy playing war. They could have just hid the evidence acted like the Lannister kids didn't happen but fuck that shit, I'm a Stark on my cloud of self righteousness casting judgment on all.

It seems like the longer they're away from their parents the smarter the the kids get.

 

[Rorschach]

Finally caught up. Man... fucking Starks. I don't even feel bad for them anymore. Ned was a fucking idiot threatening the Queen and committing high treason talking that shit. The same guy who aided in usurping the crown in the first place, but no, as long as it's masked behind duty or honor it can be rationalized somehow. That seems to be their mantra, "If it's a dumb idea, it's probably the right idea." Robb shits on the Freys and then shows his face trying to make nice and expects an army in return. He executes the bannerman that owns half his army because he wanted retribution for something his mother is solely to blame for. Cat letting Jaime go was fucking stupid. It's open war and she sent him with one guard. There wasn't anything guaranteeing his safe delivery and even if it was what she wanted to do, she could have an organized an exchange while keeping Robb in the loop but Robb is a fucking idiot and was too busy playing war. They could have just hid the evidence acted like the Lannister kids didn't happen but fuck that shit, I'm a Stark on my cloud of self righteousness casting judgment on all.

It seems like the longer they're away from their parents the smarter the the kids get.

Ned discovering and outing the Lannisters wasn't what killed him. What killed Ned was telling Cersei about it beforehand and letting her "flee" so they would spare her kids. His mercy killed him, not his duty to the crown or the realm or whatever. That allowed Cersei to put her plans in motion.

Well, it was also stupid to hand over Robert's last words too, but he did a lot of stupid things. His mercy was the catalyst to everything, though.

Anyway, I agree with your overall sentiment. The Starks have to be the dumbest family in Westeros. Bad genes. As I've said before, they're too stupid to live. And it somehow spread to Ned's wife. The only one seemingly unaffected is Bran, but he's still got time to fuck up.

 

[Massa]

Robb didn't necessarily expect Frey to give him an army. He could have said no, and Robb would probably march back to Winterfell instead of attacking Casterly Rock. Violating the guest right is not something anyone could have expected, and Robb surrounded himself with enough men until he got that bread and salt.

 

[Kozak]

What killed the Starks was the huge domino effect that Robert dying had.

If Robert lowered his spear a second earlier or twisted away from the Boar the Lannisters would be DONE.

Of course then there wouldn't be much of a show

 

[gotoadgo]

What killed the Starks was the huge domino effect that Robert dying had.

If Robert lowered his spear a second earlier or twisted away from the Boar the Lannisters would be DONE.

Of course then there wouldn't be much of a show

It always makes me laugh that the entire story essentially stems from a hunting accident.

 

[lexi]

It always makes me laugh that the entire story essentially stems from a hunting accident.

It wasn't an accident.

Such a dutiful boy to make sure his Grace did not lack refreshment

Referring to Lancel Lannister

 

[Martian]

It always makes me laugh that the entire story essentially stems from a hunting accident.

Same here. But then again, most of season 1 was before robert died, and that was pretty cool as well

 

[Dysun]

Lancel just helped Robert do what he does, he got himself killed

 

[Nameless]

What killed the Starks was the huge domino effect that Robert dying had.

If Robert lowered his spear a second earlier or twisted away from the Boar the Lannisters would be DONE.

Of course then there wouldn't be much of a show

You could also argue that it was Bran disobeying Cat's instructions of no climbing that set things in motion. If he doesn't see Jamie & Cersei together he isn't pushed, Tyrion is captured by the Catelyn, and Tywin doesn't declare war on the Starks in response.

 

[gotoadgo]

It wasn't an accident.

So it wasn't. I really need to watch season 1 again now that I have a firmer grasp of who is who and what the hell is going on.

 

[ReiGun]

You could also argue that it was Bran disobeying Cat's instructions of no climbing that set things in motion. If he doesn't see Jamie & Cersei together he isn't pushed, Tyrion is captured by the Catelyn, and Tywin doesn't declare war on the Starks in response.

But then there's still Ned investigating Jon Ayran's death, which led to him discovering Joffery was a bastard.

 

[Jackpot]

Never expected to randomly run into Brienne of Tarth nudes photos...

should have kept the hair for the show

She's done tons of those pics.

 

[Kozak]

Lancel just helped Robert do what he does, he got himself killed

Yup.

Robert was going to get drunk whether Lancel allowed it or not. Cersei telling Lancel to keep the King constantly supplied only removed the scoldings that Robert would have gave Lancel if he didn't keep him constantly refreshed.

 

[Sayter]

Fuck episode 9. >:^(

 

[Nameless]

But then there's still Ned investigating Jon Ayran's death, which led to him discovering Joffery was a bastard.

True. But they don't have cause to kill his men, lock him in a dungeon, and behead him in the square. Also, IIRC, Cat coming to King's landing and warning Ned about the Lannister's involvement in what happened to Bran added fuel to his investigative fire.

Ned might have still died, but I'm not sure if the Wolf Lion War happens.

 

[Azih]

The Starks have to be the dumbest family in Westeros.

Nah, not stupid. They're just not suited to life south of the Neck. They stay at home and they're large and in charge.

The skills and approach required to hold the North seem diametrically opposed to the machinations required to rule the South in Westeros.

 

[Showaddy]

Nah, not stupid. They're just not suited to life south of the Neck. They stay at home and they're large and in charge.

The skills and approach required to hold the North seem diametrically opposed to the machinations required to rule the South in Westeros.

This. It also works both ways in that while Tyrion is great at playing the game down south, I reckon he'd be screwed trying to rule the North.

 

[Lothar]

Yup.

Robert was going to get drunk whether Lancel allowed it or not. Cersei telling Lancel to keep the King constantly supplied only removed the scoldings that Robert would have gave Lancel if he didn't keep him constantly refreshed.

I hope you don't think that Robert would have died regardless of what Cersei did because that's a terrible read on the story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_WQUOHZ6Dg

"It wasn't wine that killed the king or the boar. It was your mercy that killed the king."

 

[Nameless]

While we're talking about different choices and alternate fates, Theon is a pretty interesting case. If Robb doesn't send him to negotiate with Balon he definitely dies in The Red Wedding. He was fortunate getting sent to the Iron Islands and had he followed Balon's orders , taken the Sea Bitch, and conquered those fishing villages he would have had his penis and at least some respect from his father right now. Instead he's a eunuch named Reek locked away in a mad man's torture chamber.

In a weird way, though, it worked out better for the Starks. If Theon hadn't marched on Winterfell, Ramsay no doubt would have. Bran & Rickon(Hodor, Osha, the wolves) don't get away from him.

 

[Kozak]

I hope you don't think that Robert would have died regardless of what Cersei did because that's a terrible read on the story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_WQUOHZ6Dg

"It wasn't wine that killed the king or the boar. It was your mercy that killed the king."

No, I think that Robert was the reason Robert got killed by a Boar.

Cersei used Robert to kill Robert.

 

[Vashetti]

What killed the Starks was the huge domino effect that Robert dying had.

If Robert lowered his spear a second earlier or twisted away from the Boar the Lannisters would be DONE.

Of course then there wouldn't be much of a show

I fucking love that episode so much. It's so ominous all the way through, you know something bad is going to happen.

I call it the episode where everything turns to shit.

As soon as Robert dies, any semblance of safety Ned had is gone.

I love the chaos that ensues with the Stark affiliates being bumped off, Arya making her escape, etc.

 

[RDreamer]

It always makes me laugh that the entire story essentially stems from a hunting accident.

It makes me laugh that essentially the realm was held together by Robert and Cersei's marriage.

 

[Vashetti]

It makes me laugh that essentially the realm was held together by Robert and Cersei's marriage.

sogood.gif

Easily one of the best scenes in the entire show.

Also, obligatory:

 

[Sajjaja]

It makes me laugh that essentially the realm was held together by Robert and Cersei's marriage.

I was watching season 1 two days ago and laughed at that exact moment when Robert said the realm was being held together by his marriage to Cersei. They laughed but it was so damn true lol.

I'll always wonder why Ned held off from spilling the beans about the truth about Joffrey to Robert.

 

[Ckonetoo]

Just finished all three seasons, avoided this this thread for possible spoilers but DAMN this is the best show i ve seen in years!

 

[RDreamer]

sogood.gif

Easily one of the best scenes in the entire show.
[/IMG]

Definitely. It's one of my favorite in this show or any show.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I'll always wonder why Ned held off from spilling the beans about the truth about Joffrey to Robert.

IIRC, he learned it while Robert was out hunting, and he simply didn't have the heart to tell his dying friend none of the children were his.

I disagree with Varys that his mercy killed the king. The wine and boar did kill him, but it was Ned's mercy that got him arrested and captured, for sure. But even then he wasn't supposed to die, only take the Black. Joffrey was the wild card that got Ned killed.

 

[fader]

would you say that Jamie and Tyrion have a pretty good relationship?

 

[Neki]

would you say that Jamie and Tyrion have a pretty good relationship?

Jaime seems like the only person who legitimately cares for Tyrion, but he did take part in the fake wife thing so I don't know really.

 

[fader]

Jaime seems like the only person who legitimately cares for Tyrion, but he did take part in the fake wife thing so I don't know really.

that was an messed up story.... maybe Jamie was just following orders?

 

[Rorschach]

that was an messed up story.... maybe Jamie was just following orders?

He was just trying to get his little brother laid and build up his confidence. As twisted as Jaime is, it was a kindness he was doing his brother. Tywin was the one that took it up a notch when he found out.

Nah, not stupid. They're just not suited to life south of the Neck. They stay at home and they're large and in charge.

The skills and approach required to hold the North seem diametrically opposed to the machinations required to rule the South in Westeros.

Their mistakes are common sense mistakes. It doesn't matter where they're from. And they receive ample warnings to boot. They're downright stupid.

 

[Dysun]

would you say that Jamie and Tyrion have a pretty good relationship?

Safe to say Jaime cares somewhat for his brother based on these season 1 scenes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWWqBOAV5NI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6zRHaezK5k

There's also the scene where the three Lannisters eat at Winterfell that I didn't see when searching

 

[fader]

He was just trying to get his little brother laid and build up his confidence. As twisted as Jaime is, it was a kindness he was doing his brother. Tywin was the one that took it up a notch when he found out.



Their mistakes are common sense mistakes. It doesn't matter where they're from. And they receive ample warnings to boot.

oohh. That makes sense,I guess Jamie didnt expect him to fall in love with her but when Tywin found out, he.... you know....

 

[fader]

Safe to say Jaime cares somewhat for his brother based on these season 1 scenes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWWqBOAV5NI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6zRHaezK5k

There's also the scene where the three Lannisters eat at Winterfell that I didn't see when searching

wow Jamie looks totally different clean and shaved...

 

[Steelyuhas]

Ommegang announces next Game of Thrones beer: Take the Black Stout

 

[Neki]

I also don't know why Stannis would take all of Renly's bannermen and put them onto boats to go to Blackwater Bay. Why didn't he just march on King's Landing with all his men and siege the mud gate from land?