Master Thespian
Member
http://io9.com/5951614/this-prosthetic-hand-was-made-for-a-16th+century-knight
They should give him a golden version of this. The thought of Jaime never busting out his god tier swordplay ever again saddens me.
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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 3 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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They should give him a golden version of this. The thought of Jaime never busting out his god tier swordplay ever again saddens me.
his future career is definitely as an alchemist
Nameless
Member
lol'd so hard
Hilarious.
Joffrey definitely won me over the last couple of seasons. Don't get me wrong, sooner later he has die for beheading Ned; that's something which can never be forgiven. But he steals every scene he's in and has emerged as perhaps the show's most entertaining character. It's rare to start laughing as soon as someone comes on screen and have them constantly deliver. Hate that guy. Love that guy.
kellycandthedragons
Banned
If we don't know his intentions, how do you know he's honest? As far as I'm concerned he's full of shit just like everyone else in King's Landing. He may say he's working for the good of the realm, but what does that mean, really? Does that mean he's above doing despicable stuff so that the realm can prosper? Does it mean he cares about the well-being of the realm on a day to day basis? Or does it mean that he cares about long-term success, even if that means temporary chaos?
All I'm saying is that a man who supposedly knows damn near everything because of his spies can easily set up assassinations on each of the Lannisters and stop the war, free Sansa, and seat someone suitable on the throne. But he didn't. Look how quickly he got that attempt on Dany set up, and that was half a world away. No, he cares about the good of the realm as far as it suits his own desires. Because if he really did care, why has he allowed these plans with the Boltons to happen? Surely a man as intelligent as Varys can see that the red wedding and Bolton betrayal will probably cause the north to turn into a really tense place, ripe for outbreaks of fighting? Why didn't he allow Ned to escape and live to fight another day? He didn't piece together himself that Joffrey was of incest? The man had a conversation with Littlefinger about seeing each other with eyes they own. He must have known what Ned and Jon were looking into. Most of all, why was he in that underground tunnel or whatever, talking to that guy? The one Arya overheard? Varys is definitely just as shady as everyone else. So I don't believe this "for the realm" business he spouts. He has his own goals and we don't know what those are, so I refuse to call him honest just yet.
Honesty=/=Goodness. Nor does he take sides.
It will probably happen in season 4 or 5... you can expect ANYTHING to happen in this story after the red wedding.
"Can you free me?"
"I can...but will I?"
Varys wants the good of the realm by which he understands peace. People don't give a shit who's the king as long as there is peace and they can live their lives. He isn't a hero though. He will do all he can to ensure the good of the real but he will stop at the very moment something that he has done might implicate him or cast a light on him.
Say Varys has every Lannister assassinated. Now what? What does the kingdom do? Stannis steps in. What if he's a dickwad too? Should he have him assassinated too? And then what? Keep the throne for himself? Determining who's going to be the king is not the job he has chosen for himself. Neither is dispensing justice. He provides information and a voice of reason for whoever sits on the throne. Good or bad.
What on earth is that zombie in the middle doing?
kellycandthedragons
Banned
I wasn't saying honesty and goodness are the same thing. I'm saying that if he is being honest about wanting the good of the realm, why has he not taken opportunities to remove people who are harmful to the realm and put people in power who aren't? He just sits back and let the Lannisters be dicks to everyone.
Stannis was known as a just man before Melisandre came along, even if people didn't particularly like him. And I thought it was assumed Varys would get rid of him too because he doesn't like magic. Making Renly or some less megalomaniac "for the family!" Lannister king. And determining who's going to be the king IS the job he's chosen for himself if he claims to want what's best for the realm.
I don't believe in his honesty about wanting what's best for the realm because he is passive and doesn't take the opportunities he has to put the good people in power. He prefers to make simpering faces while claiming his hands were tied. How exactly would he have been implicated if he let Ned escape? I was under the impression that he was visiting him in secret. Plus I will not let it go that he was planning something early in the first season and we have yet to see the fruits of that plan or hear mention of it again.
At the very least, his idea of what's best for the realm is questionable because he seemed to be advocating war with the Dothraki and we don't know if he means long term peace or short term peace.
"We will be at war soon, my friend."
"What good is war NOW? We're not ready."
http://www.youtube.com/tv?v=aDnbHTcBWbQ
Not really a conversation someone has if they care about the immediate good of the realm. He has plans. He is not honest. Or his honesty is a murky, grey honesty.
ETA: Isn't it wonderfully convenient that he told Jorah he'd received his pardon just in time for Jorah to decide to stop the assassination attempt? If he wanted to assassinate her, why not notify him after the fact? He claims to want something but takes actions so that it doesn't happen. Just like he clearly knows its true about Joffrey(http://www.youtube.com/tv?v=x_WQUOHZ6Dg), but doesn't free a man who could be in a good position to act on that truth without implicating himself. Just like he doesn't slip a note to Robb warning him about the wedding. In that clip with fat guy who's name I can never remember, he says "Delay, you say; move fast, I reply." What makes Drogo determined to attack Westeros sooner rather than later? The assassination failing.
Now I know I'm making a huge assumption by side-eyeing the timing of Jorah receiving the pardon, but it seems to me that Varys is pushing for conflict, not peace. He seems to be inconsistent, from my point of view. Instead of telling Tyrion flat out that he needs to be working to make the realm a better place, he tries to slip Shae some diamonds under the table. All that did is make her even more angry with Tyrion because now she thinks he's being a coward and letting Varys do his dirty work (that's how I understood the scene anyway). Whereas he could have had a straightforward conversation with Tyrion about the dangers of keeping Shae around any longer.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Stop it zombie, you're embarrassing yourself.
The pardon was Jorah's reward for Daenerys' death. It wasn't a way to stop it. It was "here's your money, now do the job." Stopping the assassination was all Jorah's doing.
kellycandthedragons
Banned
I am aware that it is his reward... on paper. I'm not saying Varys told him "okay, stop this guy from assassinating her." I'm saying why not wait until the thing was done to give him notice of the pardon if he really wanted her dead? It's like he was making a hail mary pass, hoping that something would be done to stop it. If he wanted this assassination to come out of nowhere, the reasonable thing to do would be to order the hit, wait for word from Jorah that it was successful, then say "okay you're clear."
But instead, he gets to say that he really did try to kill her, but someone conveniently interfered and the thing was botched. Giving the appearance of wanting peace while actually increasing the chances of war.
PhoenixDark
Banned
He could be honest about wanting what's best "for the realm," it just might not be what you think is best for the realm.
Moff
Member
I agree completely.
littlefinger plays the same game as varys, but we have seen him lie on many occasions.
the both conspire and put events in motion in the background, but littlefinger does it clearly for his own personal gain, he is the evil counterpart.
but varys? not that we know of, and he was a present character in all three seasons.
he says he does what he thinks is best for the realm. and I tend to believe him. I would even go so far and say he is one of the very few "good" persons on this show.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
To put doubt in your head, remember the conversation that Arya overheard between Illyrio and him.
They are manipulating the people into war, they just disagree on the time frame. Why do they want war if he just wants the best for the realm? Varys talks about how war just hurts the common folk the most.
PhoenixDark
Banned
It's also worth noting that Varys' intentions aren't entirely vague
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDnbHTcBWbQ
edit: beaten
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDnbHTcBWbQ
edit: beaten
Moff
Member
I guess he knows that war is inevitable to put another targaryen on the throne. which is apparently their goal since they are talking about drogo.To put doubt in your head, remember the conversation that Arya overheard between Illyrio and him.
They are manipulating the people into war, they just disagree on the time frame. Why do they want war if he just wants the best for the realm? Varys talks about how war just hurts the common folk the most.
their plan was probably to create an instability so khal drogo can take the iron throne fast and easy for vyserys.
the targaryen rule was long and stable, I can somehow see that as a solution that might be "the best for the realm", but it cannot be reclaimed entirely witthout bloodshed
Amey
Member
The best ending scene:
Nothing else matters..
Didn't quite understand why she needs fastest ship. Route from Pyke to Dreadfort passes mostly over land.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Amazing.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
She mentioned the Narrow Sea. So she's going to circumnavigate Westeros, apparently. Not sure why... I know the Greyjoys are sailors rather than riders and all, and yes the Dreadfort is much deeper East, but that's a damn long sea voyage too, I'd think.
She also mentions the Weeping Water. To give you an idea, this is the river that leads up to the Dreadfort on this map.
Yeah, she has to make a heck of a journey here, and its likely safer for her crew to go by sea, given its their expertise, even if it makes it much longer.
kellycandthedragons
Banned
If he wants a Targaryen on the throne because their rule was long, then I still say he's full of crap because that's not wanting what's best for the realm. It's wanting to maintain the status quo. We saw that when he talked to Littlefinger about supporting the lie. That's not "best for the realm." That's an enemy of progress. He doesn't know what Dany is like, and he clearly didn't know Viserys was insane because he seems to have been supporting him before Dany's dragons came. If he would rather put people on the throne just because that's what the realm knew for hundreds or thousands of years, he doesn't care about the good of realm. Supporting a system just because its the way its always been is not to the benefit of the people in that system. Especially considering that I doubt the Targaryen rule was all that stable. If enough Targaryens were crazy for them to have a saying about the gods flipping a coin, that does not seem like a family you should want to get back in power imo.
I suppose it's kind of a never ending debate though, because he's dealing in such an abstract concept.
Dutch Gronk
Banned
Going by ship would make escaping with Theon easier as well as they're pretty much home and dry once they get him into the boat. If they go by foot they'd have to evade Ramsay's force + Roose Bolton's returning army on the way back.
I could be remembering wrong but don't the Iron Islands hold Moat Cailin? She could be headed there and who knows, Karhold might join them to shit on Bolton. Their Lord may have been killed by their own Kin but they still have thousands of years of history in the North and killing guests protected under guest right is considered pretty bad still.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
She's going to run a rescue mission, not to wage war. She needs to get there fast and then haul ass back home even faster.
Because it wouldn't sound cool to say lend me the clunker, dad, I don't have to go far.
Chuckie
Member
Lmao!
Moff
Member
oh I agreet that this is absolutely debatable.
but I would say that we do not know enough about the 300year targaryen rule or varys' specific reasons to judge this matter better than him.
I do believe him though when he says he is doing it for the best of the realm, which makes him a "better" person than most others.
I simply doubt that there is somewhere a sealed letter that promises him riches, power and glory as soon has a targaryen sits the throne.
Hours Left
Member
It would paint him into a corner. He'd have to commit to it then when the story isn't even finished.
kellycandthedragons
Banned
No. He has said he doesn't release the entire map because he doesn't want us to know more than the characters do. It's a map of the world as the people of Westeros know it. So it's not completely accurate. The farther away from Westeros you get, the more the map is influenced by legend and rumor and the less accurate it is.
http://grrm.livejournal.com/297016.html is the source, but due to a spoiler in the post I have put the part I'm referencing here.
It's possible he's bullshitting just so he doesn't get painted into a corner, but it seems like an awful lot of work to write a book of maps if you want to avoid committing.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
For me the question is less whether or not Varys wants a Targaryen on the throne, more if he thinks a Targaryen conquest is inevitable. Varys isn't a stupid. His "good of the realm" goal comes with the disclaimer "as long as I'm still around". Like when he spoke with Tyrion, he believes Dany and her dragons is an inevitability. "And then there will be no place to hide." But, in the same breath, he made no effort to stop her assassination attempt, something which would have gone through if not for Jorah.
As I said earlier in the thread, up until there was a railroad coast to coast it was much easier for people to circumnavigate the Americas if they wanted to get from New York to San Francisco rather than travelling overland. Logistics and effort required alone make a sea trip the better choice. Add to that a ton of strategic advantages and it's by far the better choice.
kellycandthedragons
Banned
It seems creepier written down.
For those with less keen eyesight:
"To all the lords and noble men of Westeros,
The Night's Watch implores you to heed our warnings. Winter is coming, but not as we have seen for hundreds of years past. Only one man has returned from north of the wall, the only man left from my company of brothers with news of sights I thought never to report.
The White Walkers have risen again and they ride through the northern lands beyond the wall, taking our fallen and making them their own kind.
An army of the dead marches forth hundred, perhaps thousands, who can only be killed by fire. Prepare your defenses my lords. They are coming.
Aemon, Maester of the Night's Watch, Castle Black"
Not sure where these "pictures from the set" come from, but apparently there are quite a few of them and they look quite legitimate. If so, Aemon didn't ask for help defending the wall. I assumed that he did, since the Dragonstone crew decided to go north.
Solon Solute
Neo Member
So...early 2014 till the Season 4 Box set?
Ramsay gonna Ramsay!
Yeah he should have sent a foot or something.
Although, I suppose Ramsey didn't count on Balon not giving a fuck about his son.
Even if he somehow thought the Iron Born grew hearts, you don't devalue your bargaining chip. Westeros is all about bloodlines and family names. Theon is the last one who can continue the Greyjoy name. That is high value right there. Value that can possibly get shit done.
Steelyuhas
Member
They are the interactive features from HBO GO. They have set pictures, storyboards, discussion from the writers and actors about scenes from the episodes.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Anyone else in Team White Walkers and hope they just kill everyone so that we can start from scratch? Lets be real everyone vying for the crown is an asshole.
I'm rooting for any natural disaster to wipe the world clean.
Let the cleansing begin!
kellycandthedragons
Banned
He's useless to Balon. But he's still pretty useful if they don't care about bargaining. If he just wants to make him his bitch, which seems to be the case, then heyyyy who cares. "You can still fetch my breakfast without a cock."
timetokill
Banned
Inevitably the map will pan out enough to reveal it was Earth all along.
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