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[Pseudo_Sam]

People keep talking about a jury.

But I now know that someone can follow me from a store in the middle of the night through a neighborhood that I do have business being in - and when I tell them to kiss my ass and we get into it (God help me if its in a hard to see area) - I can get shot and killed.

Legally.

Who gives a fuck if I ever felt threatened? It won't matter because I'll be dead.

I am basically going to repeat what I said earlier (sarcasm and all) because it is still entirely applicable:

Boy, it's a good thing you know everything that happened that night. Too bad you didn't let the jury know about your powers of omniscience, you could have saved them a lot of time.

 

[eBay Huckster]

I'm an individualist. I think that the spread of individualism is the only cure for racism.

it's this
this is what that earlier post was missing in the drive for your new gold medal in the "white privilege" "not ever going to understand race relations" olympics

 

[Shabutaro]

I wonder if Zimmerman would have been brave enough to confront TM without a gun strapped to his hip.

The same thing I thought. Doubt it.

 

[toastyToast]

This thread is getting worse and worse

 

[IrishNinja]

I don't know if this came up yet, but George Takei posted this article today.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shots/

yeah, the timing of these cases can't be echoed enough....it's absolutely disgusting and paints a pretty horrid picture, for all the progress we feel we've made.

It's not needless. Too many people think their gut feelings are paramount to the findings of a jury after a thorough criminal investigation/trial. Sorry if I offended you, but vulgar language and sarcasm absolutely have their place in civilized discussion, especially in the context of an open forum such as this. I think that my point was pretty clear, and that's all that really matters.

yes, it is needless, and for several reasons:

1) you need to either step up your debate/conversational skills to a mature level of exchange or reevaluate how you speak to others if you wish to have an honest exchange, and to that

2) the bolded bit is pretty indicative of the root of the problem here: you've no real interest in such. why else would you show up, quoting something from way earlier - made by a mod who was given said role for countless intelligent contributions on a range of topics, by the way - and cussing them out like your vocabulary was so limited as to leave you devoid of other options?

for the reason you just said: all that really matters is you got to say your piece, not how anyone should receive it, as though you were speaking in a vacuum and not, again, to the smart, open forum you seem to cherish. my only offense is at your lack of genuine intent to take part in a discussion with other intelligent beings, when what you apparently wanted was to yell nonsense out of your car window in a clear, enunciated way so that everyone on the block could be blessed with the profane gems you just dropped upon them.

"everyone here was speaking from their gut, till that one mystery man yelled 'fuck off' in a manner clearly rooted in rationale...guys i'm gonna go inside and think about my life"

The guest on CNN was spot on. The Jury didnt find that Zimmerman was innocent. They found out he wasnt guilty beyond a reasonable doubt based on the fact that there were no credible witnesses or testimonies. People need to accept that

People sure as fuck don't have to accept injustice.

preach

 

[Epsilon-delta]

People keep talking about a jury.

But I now know that someone can follow me from a store in the middle of the night through a neighborhood that I do have business being in - and when I tell them to kiss my ass and we get into it (God help me if its in a hard to see area) - I can get shot and killed.

Legally.

Who gives a fuck if I ever felt threatened? It won't matter because I'll be dead.

Yes because you can't counter claim their self-defense claim with your own since you're dead. This puts the burden of proof on the state and with little to no evidence, the state's only option is to poke holes in the defense claim.

It's a shitty situation to be put in and reading some of these replies, people are fine with that. Pretty damn scary all around.

 

[Soler]

If only it weren't Zimmerman and instead an actual police officer. Trayvon would probably still be alive.

Cops can be shit heads too

 

[Angelus Errare]

this
this is what that earlier post was missing in the drive for your new gold medal in the "white privilege" "not ever going to understand race relations" olympics

Hey man, if those slaves were individualistic they would have been free and could have been sipping lemonade with their former masters building America...together!

If blacks we were individualistic in the 20s-70s we wouldn't have been segregated, lynched waterhosed and beat!

Individualism the cure for racism! Watch out racists of the America, I'm not black I'm an individual you can't be racist against me anymore, my individualism blinds you to my skin color!

 

[Epsilon-delta]

I feel like your blaming trayvon for fighting a strange man who was stalking him at night..
A cop would have a uniform or a badge or a marked car....or clearly identified themselves..I don't know...things that would have hopefully avoided this whole situation

He like some others, have no shame in victim blaming.

 

[DY_nasty]

I am basically going to repeat what I said earlier (sarcasm and all) because it is still entirely applicable:

Boy, it's a good thing you know everything that happened that night. Too bad you didn't let the jury know about your powers of omniscience, you could have saved them a lot of time.

The funny thing is, no one needs to know everything lol. I just said the basic parts of the story - which happen to revolve around vigilantism at its finest.

I didn't need to know who pushed who first at all. It won't matter.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Cops can be shit heads too

Never said otherwise, but the situation is much less likely to escalate (for a variety of reasons) if a uniformed cop approached Trayvon rather than a random dude with a gun.

 

[travisbickle]

I did believe he would be found guilty, until the dude with the moustache on Fox news said something along the lines of "you'd shoot a stranger in your neighbourhood, that's self defence, right?"

 

[ampere]

I am basically going to repeat what I said earlier (sarcasm and all) because it is still entirely applicable:

Boy, it's a good thing you know everything that happened that night. Too bad you didn't let the jury know about your powers of omniscience, you could have saved them a lot of time.

We know Zimmerman made a 911 call and was told not to follow TM.

Zimmerman created this situation when he was advised not to, and it ended with a dead child. It's pretty straightforward that he's either dangerously mentally ill, and should be treated and not have a firearms licence or he did it with malicious intent and should be locked up and not have a firearms licence.

 

[casabolg]

The poor comparison between the warning shot SYG and the zimmerman SYG being racism is spreading around on Facebook now quite a bit.

 

[Metaphoreus]

And its been explained that her defense was 'warning shots' but what the investigation showed was attempted murder where the bullet(s) deflected and went through the ceiling.

Can you link to a source for that? Or to where it was originally explained, if that provides a source?

 

[faceless007]

Like a what? You're not as clear as you think you are.


------------------------------

What crime did he commit exactly? Were you there that night? Or are you simply basing it off your 'common sense' e.g. OH MY GOD SOMEONE DIED AND I'M SO ANGRY! THAT GUY, HE WAS INVOLVED SOMEHOW! I DONT KNOW HOW! NEITHER DOES ANYONE BUT HIM! BUT SOMEONE HAS TOPAY!


That is not how reality and society works. It is especially not how a system based on justice works. You actually need evidence of the events in such a system.

Is Zimmerman completely innocent?

Most likely not.


Is he guilty of a second degree murder?

Absolutely no evidence to prove that.


How about manslaughter?


Not beyond a reasonable doubt. So no. The state could not prove he deserved to be found guilty. And they did the best job they could with the evidence they had. Hell, they illegally withheld evidence that should have been turned over to the defense. And they still couldn't convict him.

The only, and I mean only, thing that a legitimate system based on meting out justice; can do in this situation was err on the side of caution and let a potentially guilty man go instead of running the risk of convicting a innocent man.


You think he should still be punished? Fine, that just your opinion, and you're entitled to it. But all your opinion amounts to is nothing more valid than vengeance. Vengeance isn't justice. It's just a selfish way for the simpletons to make themselves feel better about their little corner of the world while disregarding any implications their actions have for the rest of society. Remember, your not the only one out there with an opinion on whose guilty or not. Maybe we should just let everyone met out punishment to whomever they think is guilty. Witch hunts worked so well before, and I certainly can't recall an incident where they failed to deliver justice.

I don't know why this post is getting quoted so many times; it revolves entirely around a faulty assumption, namely that justice is perfectly served under the law, and that questioning the application of the law is itself irrational. I shouldn't have to explain why this is wrong.

People are not angry that Zimmerman did something illegal and got away with it. People are angry that Zimmerman did something that should by any reasonable standard be illegal and got away with it. If due to the absurdities of Florida state criminal law, a weak prosecution, and an unfortunate lack of evidence from one party involved, Zimmerman was declared not guilty despite his undisputed and entirely negligent role in creating the circumstances that led to the shooting of an unarmed person, that just proves that the self-defense laws in Florida are severely flawed and the justice system broken. Of course, this is by no means the first or only case that proves that, but it is the latest and one of the most tragic.

The justice system has not revealed some infallible and unimpeachable truth about objective reality here. It would be idiotic to say that the verdict actually vindicates or absolves Zimmerman in any but a strict legal, formal sense. It's only revealed that six people who don't bother to pay attention to the news were sufficiently swayed by a high-powered legal team and a horribly deficient prosecution not to convict someone under a precisely worded statute. Is this a victory for following the absolute letter of the law? Probably. Is this is a victory for anyone considering the ethics of what happened and what it means for our broader society? Absolutely not.

 

[ampere]

The poor comparison between the warning shot SYG and the zimmerman SYG being racism is spreading around on Facebook now quite a bit.

I think a lot of people are confused about SYG, I was earlier. There's no SYG applicability in the Zimmerman / TM case, if there were the case would have been thrown out and not tried for 2nd degree.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Ok, so this seems like its been going on for a really long time, and I dont know if I'll anything that hasn't already been said,but Ill try.
So I understand what you're saying. Taking pride in having a some extra melanin, or two X chromosomes is kind of a strange concept on a superficial level. The achievements of other African Americans has nothing to do with me, so why should I be proud? I should be proud of my own actions and want to progress because I want it, not because of some artificial ties to people I know nothing about.
BUT, I think the biggest problem with the logic (not you) is that it ignores the social climate. African Americans have been put down as a group. Told they were ugly as a group. Told they were stupid, cant achieve, were inferior. Black was ugly and useless. People wanted to be something else, anything else to escape that. But to counter that, pride in ones race arose. Black became beautiful and strong and something to be proud of. It was necessarily to take pride in your race, because everyone was telling you it was the worst thing to be. Of course it functioned on an individual level. Individuals were tired of feeling that way, so they took pride in their own hair and skin and features, but that's hard to do alone, when everyone is hating on you. Plus, when you and all your family and friends are being persecuted for the same thing, something that ties you all together and makes you the same, it becomes a group pride. A pride in ones race and culture.
. People have pride in their ethnicity because its not really as superficial as just skin tone. Its not like left hand pride or right hand pride, it comes with serious social implications. Being black was and still carries a slew of challenges. To be proud of a black doctor or physicist or poet is an extension of yourself. You see people struggling like you, making progress and overcoming. They become role models for you and for the future of your race.

I don't usually point out people being Juniors.. but damn Junior, you came correct!

I am basically going to repeat what I said earlier (sarcasm and all) because it is still entirely applicable:

Boy, it's a good thing you know everything that happened that night. Too bad you didn't let the jury know about your powers of omniscience, you could have saved them a lot of time.

DY answered this himself but I'll still input here. If you reread his statement, it's VERY broad and doesn't assume anything in it's example that isn't known about this case as a fact. Zimmerman did indeed identify and follow Trayvon and "they got into it." He didn't say who did what or when they did it.

The funny thing is, no one needs to know everything lol. I just said the basic parts of the story - which happen to revolve around vigilantism at its finest.

I didn't need to know who pushed who first at all. It won't matter.

Church!

 

[Shabutaro]

I did believe he would be found guilty, until the dude with the moustache on Fox news said something along the lines of "you'd shoot a stranger in your neighbourhood, that's self defence, right?"

Fox has been saying some really crazy stuff about it. That guy with the super wierd mustache was asking really slanted questions to a contributor tonight. Making sure to reference the "crazy cracker" line. Its just kind of sickening to hear.

A poster earlier talked about men in a bar cheering at the verdict. For people who erupt into cheers at the thought of Zimmerman being free, what does this case mean to them? A guilty ruling would have been a victory for civil rights for alot people.
But on the opposite side, what does the innocent ruling mean? I mean i can understand being ok with the verdict but to cheer is interesting. Not hating or anything, just wondering what kind of landmark case this is for the other side.

 

[Maninthemirror]

We know Zimmerman made a 911 call and was told not to follow TM.

Zimmerman created this situation when he was advised not to, and it ended with a dead child. It's pretty straightforward that he's either dangerously mentally ill, and should be treated and not have a firearms licence or he did it with malicious intent and should be locked up and not have a firearms licence.

Things that played well
For the defense


- GZ made the 911 call, that could have gone to the juries as not intent but fear
- gz persuing tm despite 911 telling not to played into prosecution but he was a neighborhood watch. Jury could not be convinced his intent to kill at this point
- we know tm was on top of gz at one point according to an eye witness this played to the defense as well as gz being bloodied from the fight
- the witness who heard the 911 was the worst witness the prosecution put up , she was the first one and the worst one. She was all over the place, that somewhat collapsed the prosecution 911 argument
- both moms heard their own sons in the 911 screams
- juries could not be convinced that according to florida law, gz in the fight intended to murder tm . Prosecution could not prove it, defense put doubt in juries mind
- gz acquitted of murdering tm of 2nd degr and manslaughter

Thats it

 

[SRTtoZ]

Can you link to a source for that? Or to where it was originally explained, if that provides a source?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgXQLBkKA8w

 

[Epsilon-delta]

I don't know why this post is getting quoted so many times; it revolves entirely around a faulty assumption, namely that justice is perfectly served under the law, and that questioning the application of the law is itself irrational. I shouldn't have to explain why this is wrong.

People are not angry that Zimmerman did something illegal and got away with it. People are angry that Zimmerman did something that should by any reasonable standard be illegal and got away with it. If due to the absurdities of Florida state criminal law, a weak prosecution, and an unfortunate lack of evidence from one party involved, Zimmerman was declared not guilty despite his undisputed and entirely negligent role in creating the circumstances that led to the shooting of an unarmed person, that just proves that the self-defense laws in Florida are severely flawed and the justice system broken. Of course, this is by no means the first or only case that proves that, but it is the latest and one of the most tragic.

The justice system has not revealed some infallible and unimpeachable truth about objective reality here. It would be idiotic to say that the verdict actually vindicates or absolves Zimmerman in any but a strict legal, formal sense. It's only revealed that six people who don't bother to pay attention to the news were sufficiently swayed by a high-powered legal team and a horribly deficient prosecution not to convict someone under a precisely worded statute. Is this a victory for following the absolute letter of the law? Probably. Is this is a victory for anyone considering the ethics of what happened and what it means for our broader society? Absolutely not.

Very well said.

 

[FreedomFighter]

The poor comparison between the warning shot SYG and the zimmerman SYG being racism is spreading around on Facebook now quite a bit.

I don't really think it's a poor comparison though. Same with the Michael Vick, 21 months, while Zimmerman gets off. They're just making the point that Blacks get harsher sentences for lesser crimes. Which is true. In fact, Blacks get harsher sentences for committing the same crimes as whites... the research and literature on this in the criminal justice circles in academia is pretty robust actually.

I think that's what those comparisons are trying to get at.

 

[Pseudo_Sam]

yes, it is needless, and for several reasons:

1) you need to either step up your debate/conversational skills to a mature level of exchange or reevaluate how you speak to others if you wish to have an honest exchange, and to that

2) the bolded bit is pretty indicative of the root of the problem here: you've no real interest in such. why else would you show up, quoting something from way earlier - made by a mod who was given said role for countless intelligent contributions on a range of topics, by the way - and cussing them out like your vocabulary was so limited as to leave you devoid of other options?

for the reason you just said: all that really matters is you got to say your piece, not how anyone should receive it, as though you were speaking in a vacuum and not, again, to the smart, open forum you seem to cherish. my only offense is at your lack of genuine intent to take part in a discussion with other intelligent beings, when what you apparently wanted was to yell nonsense out of your car window in a clear, enunciated way so that everyone on the block could be blessed with the profane gems you just dropped upon them.

What a bunch of bullshit. Because I said fuck, nothing I said was genuine? I wasn't trying? I was trying to impress with my wit? Let me spare you the mystique of the thing and spell it out:

F U C K

There it is, in all it's anarchistic non-intelligent non-genuine glory. Soak it in. Because nobody in the history of debate has ever used profanity to try and prove a point. And there is literally nothing worse than the word fuck. But seriously, there was no hard evidence to convict GZ on. In the absence of such evidence, the jury has no choice but to find him not guilty. Not guilty != innocent, mind you, but it is the correct verdict based on the evidence (or lack thereof). That is the point, and that is what matters. Our justice system is not predicated on revenge. Neither you nor anyone else in this thread is smarter or more qualified to pass judgement on Zimmerman than an entire jury.

 

[cws]

This is screwed up, nobody had to get armed or even die that night. "DO NOT LEAVE THE CAR", that shithead should have just stayed in its place instead of trying to be the towns hero. What did he expect following and teenager with a loaded gun at night ? Ridiculous...

 

[kingmozo9]

As a black male, what's fair is fair. Trayvon wasn't an angel, if someone has authority over you.. no need to feel like you are above them and escalate a situation.

You remind me of this character in Django for some reason....

 

[Angry Fork]

I don't know why this post is getting quoted so many times; it revolves entirely around a faulty assumption, namely that justice is perfectly served under the law, and that questioning the application of the law is itself irrational. I shouldn't have to explain why this is wrong.

People are not angry that Zimmerman did something illegal and got away with it. People are angry that Zimmerman did something that should by any reasonable standard be illegal and got away with it. If due to the absurdities of Florida state criminal law, a weak prosecution, and an unfortunate lack of evidence from one party involved, Zimmerman was declared not guilty despite his undisputed and entirely negligent role in creating the circumstances that led to the shooting of an unarmed person, that just proves that the self-defense laws in Florida are severely flawed and the justice system broken. Of course, this is by no means the first or only case that proves that, but it is the latest and one of the most tragic.

The justice system has not revealed some infallible and unimpeachable truth about objective reality here. It would be idiotic to say that the verdict actually vindicates or absolves Zimmerman in any but a strict legal, formal sense. It's only revealed that six people who don't bother to pay attention to the news were sufficiently swayed by a high-powered legal team and a horribly deficient prosecution not to convict someone under a precisely worded statute. Is this a victory for following the absolute letter of the law? Probably. Is this is a victory for anyone considering the ethics of what happened and what it means for our broader society? Absolutely not.

^^^

 

[Casimir]

I like how you typed all that out like I didn't present you a simply answer as to why people are upset lol.

I'm not even mad. I knew Zimmerman was getting off after the prosecution shot for 2nd degree in spite of a lack of evidence and a grossly mismanaged start to the entire ordeal.

Go back to my simple statement and your question is answered. Its not about Florida Law by definition. Its about the fact that you can be an active vigilante and its okay. There is no witch hunt here.

Witch hunt does not mean what you think it means either.


You didn't post the youtube link before

Point still stands though. That's her version of self-defense, shitty legal advice, overconfidence, etc.

I copied most of it from a previous post to someone else. But okay, pat yourself on the back.
------------------------------------

Also you should actually read the post. Because I both explain and answered your question. Yes it is against the law and common sense to want or allow vengeance. Though to be fair, your grammar follows no decipherable format at that junction so it's hard to figure out what you're even trying to say (I'm not exactly a model of excellence myself, but what the hell did you type?) [I don't mean to offended if English isn't your first language].

-------------------

Persecution of a person/group due to perceived faults or guilt in the court of public opinion regardless of actual said guilt or evidence? Because that what it means in the modern sense of the term. Go figure.



-------------------


Youtube link? What the hell are you going on about?


-------------------

I assume you're talking about the lady who was given 20 years for a warning shot? Again..what are you trying to say? My previous argument still stands unchallenged, regardless.



Oh by the way, you never clarified what you were insinuating I was. But let me guess? racist. It was racist right? Yeah I'm clearly a racist for respecting and supporting a fair justice system over a angry mob out for vengeance.

 

[FreedomFighter]

Ok, so this seems like its been going on for a really long time, and I dont know if I'll anything that hasn't already been said,but Ill try.
So I understand what you're saying. Taking pride in having a some extra melanin, or two X chromosomes is kind of a strange concept on a superficial level. The achievements of other African Americans has nothing to do with me, so why should I be proud? I should be proud of my own actions and want to progress because I want it, not because of some artificial ties to people I know nothing about.
BUT, I think the biggest problem with the logic (not you) is that it ignores the social climate. African Americans have been put down as a group. Told they were ugly as a group. Told they were stupid, cant achieve, were inferior. Black was ugly and useless. People wanted to be something else, anything else to escape that. But to counter that, pride in ones race arose. Black became beautiful and strong and something to be proud of. It was necessarily to take pride in your race, because everyone was telling you it was the worst thing to be. Of course it functioned on an individual level. Individuals were tired of feeling that way, so they took pride in their own hair and skin and features, but that's hard to do alone, when everyone is hating on you. Plus, when you and all your family and friends are being persecuted for the same thing, something that ties you all together and makes you the same, it becomes a group pride. A pride in ones race and culture.
. People have pride in their ethnicity because its not really as superficial as just skin tone. Its not like left hand pride or right hand pride, it comes with serious social implications. Being black was and still carries a slew of challenges. To be proud of a black doctor or physicist or poet is an extension of yourself. You see people struggling like you, making progress and overcoming. They become role models for you and for the future of your race.

Good point. The bolded is called an 'oppositional identity'.

 

[Metaphoreus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgXQLBkKA8w

Thanks. That definitely puts the story in a different light.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Oh by the way, you never clarified what you were insinuating I was. But let me guess? racist. It was racist right? Yeah I'm clearly a racist for respecting and supporting a fair justice system over a angry mob out for vengeance.

This assumption is the problem. At least for me.

(Trimmed your quote for clarification since you had another bolded sentence)

 

[Liberty4all]

The one thing this thread has concluded for me is that Zimmerman will never be a "free" man guilty or not. At least not as long as he stays in the US.

His life is ruined stateside and he may very well be dodging vigilante bullets as long as he lives right or wrong.

 

[DY_nasty]

I copied most of it from a previous post to someone else. But okay, pat yourself on the back.
------------------------------------

Also you should actually read the post. Because I both explain and answered your question. Yes it is against the law and common sense to want or allow vengeance. Though to be fair, your grammar follows no decipherable format at that junction so it's hard to figure out what you're even trying to say (I'm not exactly a model of excellence myself, but what the hell did you type?) [I don't mean to offended if English isn't your first language].

-------------------

Persecution of a person/group due to perceived faults or guilt in the court of public opinion regardless of actual said guilt or evidence? Because that what it means in the modern sense of the term. Go figure.



-------------------


Youtube link? What the hell are you going on about?


-------------------

I assume you're talking about the lady who was given 20 years for a warning shot? Again..what are you trying to say? My previous argument still stands unchallenged, regardless.



Oh by the way, you never clarified what you were insinuating I was. But let me guess? racist. It was racist right? Yeah I'm clearly a racist for respecting and supporting a fair justice system over a angry mob out for vengeance.

In my first as a reply to you (as I was replying to someone else before) I pretty much said the same thing you were - without the assumption part. Not sure where that came from tbh.

The youtube link was in response to someone else. I quoted two ppl in the message you're referring too.

Not even sure what you're talking about with the insinuation bit lol

HOWEVAH Disagreeing with a law does not make one out for vengeance. That's really frustrating leap that you and others keep taking.

 

[FreedomFighter]

As a black male, what's fair is fair. Trayvon wasn't an angel, if someone has authority over you.. no need to feel like you are above them and escalate a situation.

You know, the typical defense in a case like this is dragged the deceased through the mud to make it seem like he deserved his fate and that's pretty fucked up. Regardless of what Treyvon may or may not have done (are any of his character smears even validated at all?), he wasn't doing anything wrong and if Zimmerman had followed the directions of the dispatcher, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

But the fact that you seem to be saying he deserved to be killed or didn't deserve justice because he "wasn't an angel" is pretty disgusting.

 

[Scofield94941]

 

[DY_nasty]

I don't know why this post is getting quoted so many times; it revolves entirely around a faulty assumption, namely that justice is perfectly served under the law, and that questioning the application of the law is itself irrational. I shouldn't have to explain why this is wrong.

People are not angry that Zimmerman did something illegal and got away with it. People are angry that Zimmerman did something that should by any reasonable standard be illegal and got away with it. If due to the absurdities of Florida state criminal law, a weak prosecution, and an unfortunate lack of evidence from one party involved, Zimmerman was declared not guilty despite his undisputed and entirely negligent role in creating the circumstances that led to the shooting of an unarmed person, that just proves that the self-defense laws in Florida are severely flawed and the justice system broken. Of course, this is by no means the first or only case that proves that, but it is the latest and one of the most tragic.

The justice system has not revealed some infallible and unimpeachable truth about objective reality here. It would be idiotic to say that the verdict actually vindicates or absolves Zimmerman in any but a strict legal, formal sense. It's only revealed that six people who don't bother to pay attention to the news were sufficiently swayed by a high-powered legal team and a horribly deficient prosecution not to convict someone under a precisely worded statute. Is this a victory for following the absolute letter of the law? Probably. Is this is a victory for anyone considering the ethics of what happened and what it means for our broader society? Absolutely not.

I love this post.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

Yeah I'm clearly a racist for respecting and supporting a fair justice system over a angry mob out for vengeance.

The justice system is far from fair but keep telling yourself that.

 

[Devolution]

What angry mob? People not thrilled someone could just up and kill another human being who was completely unarmed, nonthreatening and even trying to flee? Yeah totally crazy on our behalf to be mad.

 

[IrishNinja]

There it is, in all it's anarchistic non-intelligent non-genuine glory. Soak it in. Because nobody in the history of debate has ever used profanity to try and prove a point. And there is literally nothing worse than the word fuck. But seriously, there was no hard evidence to convict GZ on. In the absence of such evidence, the jury has no choice but to find him not guilty. Not guilty != innocent, mind you, but it is the correct verdict based on the evidence (or lack thereof). That is the point, and that is what matters. Our justice system is not predicated on revenge. Neither you nor anyone else in this thread is smarter or more qualified to pass judgement on Zimmerman than an entire jury.

1) while it's true that people have cussed each other in intellectual debates before, it's not very strong ground to stand on as an opening. but again, as you said, exchange isnt what matters

2) that is the point to you, the rest of us are free to debate what strikes us as a clear injustice. mind you, you've put in solid work to shut that down with your personal attacks and scathing sarcasm, yet still somehow it continues

3) if you're going to hinge on the fallacy of appealing to authority, a random floirda jury is a piss-poor one to use - as an FL resident i feel very safe with this statement

TL;DR the only thing you have firmly established is that yes, you are likely no smarter than the jurors, but there is no reason to assume this tragedy extends to others

As a black male, what's fair is fair. Trayvon wasn't an angel, if someone has authority over you.. no need to feel like you are above them and escalate a situation.

this is all kinds've messed up; kind've having a hard time with which part's worse, the "no angel" victim-blaming or pretending zimmerman's authority existed outside of what he practiced in front of mirrors every night

 

[FreedomFighter]

This is pretty much what's going to happen. I don't think the streets are going to let this slide.

 

[Jmanunknown]

Oh by the way, you never clarified what you were insinuating I was. But let me guess? racist. It was racist right? Yeah I'm clearly a racist for respecting and supporting a fair justice system over a angry mob out for vengeance.

Oh please thats bs america's over crowded prison system should be enough to prove to you that the justice system is not fair but, add to the fact that the so called fair justice system puts a lot more minority people in jail than the majority race should tell you something but, don't let that stop you from continuing to support that fair justice system.

 

[Jak140]

Zimmerman may be not guilty in the eyes of the law, but fuck anyone who thinks that means he's innocent. His actions resulted in the death of an innocent teen who was minding his own goddam business until Zimmerman decided to take the law into his own hands. Even worse, he seems to feel no remorse for his actions. Not guilty doesn't mean he's vindicated, it means the laws are flawed. Yes, no innocent man should go to jail, but Zimmerman created the situation by stalking an adolescent in the dark with a gun without even identifying himself as a neighborhood watch captain. Imagine yourself in that situation walking home alone at night in the rain being pursued by a strange man and ask yourself why you think what he did should go unpunished. If there isn't a law against what Zimmerman did, there should be.

I can't blame the jurors if their hands were tied by the law, but I hope they would have given the same verdict regardless of race. I hope they can see what he did was wrong, and if they do, I hope they can still sleep at night despite the weight of it. If Zimmerman never goes to jail, I don't feel an iota of pity for him if the rest of his life is hell, because it's a hell of his own creation.

 

[Ecotic]

This country has grown weak; decadent. There was a time when we used to turn to good old fashioned race riots to solve our problems, and we can do it again. Lord knows I've been dying all my life to do some actual looting in an environment conducive to it. Plus with current self-defense laws I'd be basically invincible in a court of law. My trial:

Prosecutor: Mr. Ecotic, tell us again in your own words what happened the night in question.
Me: Well sir I was walking back from the mall with my new LCD teevee and high priced jewelry when a random thug called out my name from a distance, so fearing for my life I had little choice but to fire five warning shots in his direction. And might I add that crime was rife in this particular neighborhood, especially of the black persuasion.
Prosecutor: Mr. Ecotic, isn't it true that this particular neighborhood was 95% black, and therefore the crime being predominantly black merely follows demographic destiny?
Me: Well... that's... possible.
Prosecutor: And isn't it true SIR, that on this particular night most all the houses in this neighborhood were ransacked and there was a notable loss of teevees and jewelry?
Me: Hey look, if I wasn't planning on buying a teevee that day, would I have bought a teevee stand the day before?

*Jury Murmurs*

NOT GUILTY!!

The system works.

 

[methane47]

From my facebook feed

 

[ampere]

Things that played well
For the defense


- GZ made the 911 call, that could have gone to the juries as not intent but fear
- gz persuing tm despite 911 telling not to played into prosecution but he was a neighborhood watch. Jury could not be convinced his intent to kill at this point
- we know tm was on top of gz at one point according to an eye witness this played to the defense as well as gz being bloodied from the fight
- the witness who heard the 911 was the worst witness the prosecution put up , she was the first one and the worst one. She was all over the place, that somewhat collapsed the prosecution 911 argument
- both moms heard their own sons in the 911 screams
- juries could not be convinced that according to florida law, gz in the fight intended to murder tm . Prosecution could not prove it, defense put doubt in juries mind
- gz acquitted of murdering tm of 2nd degr and manslaughter

Thats it

Maybe it's the prosecution that really failed. I think to not convict him on anything seems crazy, he doesn't even lose his firearms licence? Is it because they only tried to get him on 2nd degree or manslaughter? Could they have had more lesser charges?

Saying "I feel it was all God's plan" and having no remorse with regards to killing a kid should constitute dangerous insanity... very frustrating this whole thing.

 

[RiccochetJ]

I don't know if this came up yet, but George Takei posted this article today.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shots/

Well see the extenuating circumstances here is that she's black and a woman.

 

[Shabutaro]

Good point. The bolded is called an 'oppositional identity'.

Never knew it had a term actually! Googled it and found a really interesting document that Im going to have to read tomorrow.

 

[Devolution]

Not even sure why someone has to be a complete angel to be spared death. Victim blaming stuff makes my head spin.

 

[Professor Beef]

Victim blaming stuff makes my head spin.

i hope the kitties on your beard don't go flying

 

[SRTtoZ]

Maybe it's the prosecution that really failed. I think to not convict him on anything seems crazy, he doesn't even lose his firearms licence? Is it because they only tried to get him on 2nd degree or manslaughter? Could they have had more lesser charges?

Saying "I feel it was all God's plan" and having no remorse with regards to killing a kid should constitute dangerous insanity... very frustrating this whole thing.

People who have had the worst losses in life have also claimed that it was gods plan so you really can't go based on that. Religious people actually believe that and it probably helps them cope with the situation. This is an entirely different subject all together.