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[Hot Coldman]

Yup.

ehhhhhhhh I'd describe that more as a harsh-but-fair observation

the bucks stops with you, essentially, and that will never change

 

[Psychotext]

What "job" is that exactly? Newsflash: installing internet filter software is not a parent's "job".

You probably shouldn't bother childproofing your house or keeping bottles of bleach etc out of reach either. Sounds like effort that maybe someone else could handle instead.

 

[Majine]

They should allow them to turn this off by asking cashiers in any supermarket.

 

[Red Liquorice]

Just the beginning. The will put everything behind an opt-in wall - Legal pornography, download sites, maybe even adult-themed discussion forums. If you opt in to access these, you can easily be flagged as someone to keep an eye on.

Does anyone actually believe this will stop child porn either? I don't like the insidious way they are doing this under the pretext of ridding the UK of this evil. People accessing this type of stuff probably don't just go to google and type in "child p*rn" - that is surely going to flag something at their ISP already if it's a regular activity?

If anything all this should be opt-out. It's parents responsibility to keep their children from accessing anything they don't want them to. They buy their kids iphones, tablets and laptops - the kids often know how to use them better than the parents do, then they complain about what their kids are accessing? Does no one else see what's wrong here.

Take some fucking responsibility for your own, instead of asking the government to babysit your kids.

 

[Symphonia]

What "job" is that exactly? Newsflash: installing internet filter software is not a parent's "job".

Newsflash: it's your job to keep your children safe. When I take my daughter to the park, I don't just sit down on the bench and rely on other parents to ensure she's safe while she climbs the climbing frame. The same principle applies here. While your child is on your computer and using your internet, it is your job to make sure they're protected from anything indecent, not the governments.

 

[MJLord]

...and like that, GAF are experts in parenting. First of all, fuck you guys for trying to tell me how to raise my own kids. You have no clue what I do and don't do, and GAF judging me on my parenting skills is a bit like me trying to tell a pilot how to fly a plane.

I'm guessing you don't have children of your own. When you do, you'll realise that life is not as simple as "take some responsibility and educate your children". It's a fucking minefield out there, and no parent stands behind their children watching their internet usage all the time. For one, it's just not feasible, and also, I like to have some kind of trust in my children and not have to constantly monitor what they do online.

I'm not sure how much you know about local web blocking software, but it can degrade performance and the fact that it embeds itself so deeply into the operating system is a huge issue - apart from the incompatibilities that the software can introduce, there are potentially many little vulnerabilities being introduced that any nasty piece of malware may be able to hook into.. Besides, I am not even sure if there *is* any appropriate blocking software for Fedora.

Nothing is being forced on anyone. There is a filter that can be taken off with a one minute phonecall. It's NOT A BLOCK. One phonecall, and you opt-out and everything is as it was before.

Ultimately, pornography is harmful for children in that it gives girls an unrealistic body image ideal and teaches boys that women are by and large semen-recepticles. Children do not have the life experience to be able to put pornography into context, and anything that can be done to limit their intentional or unintentional access to it is a good thing.

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-desktop-74/parental-control-in-linux-521665/
There is a thread to get you started.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

You probably shouldn't bother childproofing your house or keeping bottles of bleach etc out of reach either. Sounds like effort that maybe someone else could handle instead.

He must get the council health and safety officers into his house to ensure everything is done just right or they do it for him.

I'm sure his favourite phrase is "Garden is just an anagram of danger".

 

[Velcro Fly]

Parent is as much a verb as it is a noun. I know there is no manual for this sort of thing, but I've always felt the bigger stuff was really obvious. I didn't have a computer in my room until I graduated high school. If you can't lock up the laptop or the iPad when your kid goes to bed to keep them from seeing porn, then I don't know what else to say. I'm not meaning to critique anyone's parenting, but censoring the entire Internet so people no longer have to parent their kids is awful.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

Not familiar with laws and stuff but

Does this have to pass the house of parliament or the Scottish Parliament?

 

[Deaf Spacker]

...and like that, GAF are experts in parenting. First of all, fuck you guys for trying to tell me how to raise my own kids. You have no clue what I do and don't do, and GAF judging me on my parenting skills is a bit like me trying to tell a pilot how to fly a plane.

I'm guessing you don't have children of your own. When you do, you'll realise that life is not as simple as "take some responsibility and educate your children". It's a fucking minefield out there, and no parent stands behind their children watching their internet usage all the time. For one, it's just not feasible, and also, I like to have some kind of trust in my children and not have to constantly monitor what they do online.

I'm not sure how much you know about local web blocking software, but it can degrade performance and the fact that it embeds itself so deeply into the operating system is a huge issue - apart from the incompatibilities that the software can introduce, there are potentially many little vulnerabilities being introduced that any nasty piece of malware may be able to hook into.. Besides, I am not even sure if there *is* any appropriate blocking software for Fedora.

Nothing is being forced on anyone. There is a filter that can be taken off with a one minute phonecall. It's NOT A BLOCK. One phonecall, and you opt-out and everything is as it was before.

Ultimately, pornography is harmful for children in that it gives girls an unrealistic body image ideal and teaches boys that women are by and large semen-recepticles. Children do not have the life experience to be able to put pornography into context, and anything that can be done to limit their intentional or unintentional access to it is a good thing.

Until I was 18 I was not allowed a computer in my bedroom because my parents actually did their job and supervised me whilst I used a computer, that wouldn't have been possible if I had one in my bedroom.

If you chose to have children, you need to raise them and supervise them. It's not our problem if you can't supervise your children to ensure that they don't see tits or arse etc and you shouldn't need to rely on the government to block inappropriate content.

 

[jakonovski]

Finland went this route, but they straight up called it a child porn filter. It of course encompassed a whole lot of legit porn sites in addition to the subject matter, as well as stuff like the site of the Thai royal family (yay casual racism!). It is of course nigh impossible to get anything off the filter, because nobody in charge thought it would be possible to make mistakes.

They also said the filter wouldn't be used for anything else, but there's been repeated attempts to include gambling sites to it.

 

[AzureSkies]

DAVID CAMERON PASSES STUPID LAW THAT TAKES AWAY RIGHTS.

More news at 10.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

What "job" is that exactly? Newsflash: installing internet filter software is not a parent's "job".

If you can't even do that right why should you have children? Maybe your government should raise your kids for you too.

 

[Hot Coldman]

so I'm gonna nominate "I refuse to personally install porn filters despite my massive aversion to that sort of content because WAAHHHH PERFORMANCE ISSUES" as the bestest post

who's with me

 

[SKINNER!]

What "job" is that exactly? Newsflash: installing internet filter software is not a parent's "job".

Do you get the government to allocate you a person to buckle your kid's seatbelts in the car, hold their hand when they cross the road and childproof the house?

Protecting what your kids see on the internet is a parent's job. No different from making sure they don't watch any TV shows and movies above PG or read any inappropriate magazines/books.

EDIT: beaten by Psychotext.

 

[Deaf Spacker]

so I'm gonna nominate "I refuse to personally install porn filters despite my massive aversion to that sort of content because WAAHHHH PERFORMANCE ISSUES" as the bestest post

who's with me

I'm with you.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

The thing is I'm not saying kids should have unfettered access to porn, absolutely not. It doesn't promote a healthy image of sex to impressionable people and the rise of throat infections among 16-20 year old girls is probably down to A2M porn. That guys and girls see this kind of sex as normal and is promoted as normal sex is not very healthy. But, and there is one, it is down to fucking parents to teach their kids about this stuff and explain that porn is not a realistic or healthy image of what sex is.

Spoiler

The best thing to come from porn is the Hollywood wax, and for that I am thankful!

Oh come on, that was uncalled for. Seriously.

It's not too hard to imagine why parents want this, namely because it can be very hard for them to "stay ahead" of their kids. The world has become incredibly complex and parents have the desire to protect their children without putting them in a prison. I don't agree with his opinion and I consider filters or blocks dangerous, but it's not too hard to see why a parent would feel the way he does.

Then make it an opt-in filter. Job done.

 

[Symphonia]

Oh come on, that was uncalled for. Seriously.

While the question about whether he should have children in the first place was out of order, I can see where ElectricBlue is coming from. After all, it's really NOT the governments job to babysit every child in the UK. If you choose to have a child, you're choosing to accept responsibility for them. It doesn't take five minutes to install and configure a content filter on a computer. I don't expect the country to have their entire internet access revoked for the sake of my child, why should anyone else? Just accept the responsibility you chose to carry when you had your child and deal with it like an adult. Simple.

 

[Vashetti]

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Oh come on, that was uncalled for. Seriously.

It's not too hard to imagine why parents want this, namely because it can be very hard for them to "stay ahead" of their kids. The world has become incredibly complex and parents have the desire to protect their children without putting them in a prison. I don't agree with his opinion and I consider filters or blocks dangerous, but it's not too hard to see why a parent would feel the way he does.

As a parent, I am rather appalled that people should be inconvienced in any way for the sake of my inability to do simple shit to raise my kids.

Also, if they are unwilling to 'stay up on what the kids are up to' they are likely shitty parents.

 

[kurtrussell]

T But, and there is one, it is down to fucking parents to teach their kids about this stuff and explain that porn is not a realistic or healthy image of what sex is..

And this is my point. So many posts about "you should do this, you should educate them, you should say this.." etc. GAF does not seem to realise that raising a child is not like reading a parenting manual and applying things that should work in theory.

To use your example above. Of course I've spoken to them about this kind of thing. However, a parent's words are never going to trump peer pressure, and if many of their peers have access to this material and actively force expectations, then there's not a lot I can do as a parent. I'd much rather that the potential for their peers to access this material was severely limited.

In addition, I've noticed a lot of "I didn't have a computer / phone until I was 16/18" type posts. Life has changed a lot, and kids mostly have phones when they hit secondary school, and internet usage has become so pervasive, that my kids cannot even check their homework diaries without being online. Everything is done almost exclusively online now, meaning regular access to a computer is pretty much a necessity.

 

[Captain_Spanky]

As a parent

You should be taking responsibility for your children's lives not expecting the rest of us to sign up for the government's pervert register just so you can be lazy.

 

[Kentpaul]

The UK is going to go to fucking shit unless we get labour back in change, I'm just so fucking glad scotland will be going independent next year.

The tory government is fucking up everything. Fuck this shit. FUCK IT.

 

[Symphonia]

In addition, I've noticed a lot of "I didn't have a computer / phone until I was 16/18" type posts. Life has changed a lot, and kids mostly have phones when they hit secondary school, and internet usage has become so pervasive, that my kids cannot even check their homework diaries without being online. Everything is done almost exclusively online now, meaning regular access to a computer is pretty much a necessity.

And that, sir, is where the content filter comes in. It really is not that difficult to get a grasp of, you know.

 

[Photolysis]

Moronic politicians trying to control something they don't have the slightest knowledge of. Me having to opt in to anything because of clueless politicians and bad parents is nonsensical.

On a related subject, there's been a big deal over child porn recently; they literally seem to think that people into child porn go along to Google and get it from there. Instead of it being hidden underground where it's hard to find.

You have a generation of people who grew up using the internet who will run rings around these fools.

 

[JoeM86]

The UK is going to go to fucking shit unless we get labour back in change, I'm just so fucking glad scotland will be going independent next year.

The tory government is fucking up everything. Fuck this shit. FUCK IT.

Labour didn't exactly do a good job either.

What we need is a political party that isn't filled with idiots. Unfortunately, that doesn't exist.

 

[Kentpaul]

If scotland doesn't go independent next year i am moving out of the UK. I will not be apart of a weak nation.

Labour didn't exactly do a good job either.

What we need is a political party that isn't filled with idiots. Unfortunately, that doesn't exist.

Labour is the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Chili]

I get why parents may be in favour of an ISP-level block on pornography. It is a very clean solution, no need for dodgy software, won't affect performance, no technical knowledge required. I get all that. What I don't understand is why parents can't simply opt-in to the filter rather than having it applied by default on every internet connection in the United Kingdom. You want to protect your children from pornography? Then log on to your ISP account and check the box yourself. And that way at least some form of parental responsibility remains intact by the nanny state.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

And this is my point. So many posts about "you should do this, you should educate them, you should say this.." etc. GAF does not seem to realise that raising a child is not like reading a parenting manual and applying things that should work in theory.

To use your example above. Of course I've spoken to them about this kind of thing. However, a parent's words are never going to trump peer pressure, and if many of their peers have access to this material and actively force expectations, then there's not a lot I can do as a parent. I'd much rather that the potential for their peers to access this material was severely limited.

In addition, I've noticed a lot of "I didn't have a computer / phone until I was 16/18" type posts. Life has changed a lot, and kids mostly have phones when they hit secondary school, and internet usage has become so pervasive, that my kids cannot even check their homework diaries without being online. Everything is done almost exclusively online now, meaning regular access to a computer is pretty much a necessity.

It's up to you to decide whether you want your kids to have unfettered access to the internet by giving them those tools (laptops, tablets, smartphones) or if you believe that having the piss taken out of them at school is worse for them, because that's what it boils down to. You don't want your kids to feel like they are going without the latest thing that all of their friends have.

Also, you still haven't made a compelling argument as to why the filter should be opt out rather than opt in. Give it a wide advertising scheme like those quit smoking adverts and call it a day. Also give the advice via ISPs for new connections.

 

[jakonovski]

And this is my point. So many posts about "you should do this, you should educate them, you should say this.." etc. GAF does not seem to realise that raising a child is not like reading a parenting manual and applying things that should work in theory.

To use your example above. Of course I've spoken to them about this kind of thing. However, a parent's words are never going to trump peer pressure, and if many of their peers have access to this material and actively force expectations, then there's not a lot I can do as a parent. I'd much rather that the potential for their peers to access this material was severely limited.

In addition, I've noticed a lot of "I didn't have a computer / phone until I was 16/18" type posts. Life has changed a lot, and kids mostly have phones when they hit secondary school, and internet usage has become so pervasive, that my kids cannot even check their homework diaries without being online. Everything is done almost exclusively online now, meaning regular access to a computer is pretty much a necessity.

I predict that after the filter is put on, time will pass, and at some point you will have the surprise of finding out that your kids figured out how to access porn despite the filter.

Who are you going to blame then?

 

[Captain_Spanky]

The UK is going to go to fucking shit unless we get labour back in change, I'm just so fucking glad scotland will be going independent next year.

This law, especially the "rape porn" part, is bringing the rest of the country more in line with Scotland in that regard. To be honest that's the most worrying part. This country already has horrific laws about alternative sexuality and this muddies the waters further. Is rape porn when there is actual non-consent, which is illegal already, or is it anything that appears to be rough and violent in nature. Is Irreversible now illegal? If not, why not etc. It's typical wooly wording that helps no one.

 

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

is 100% block of porn possible ? if they did this, will i not be able to see any naked pics/videos at all ?

 

[Kentpaul]

This law, especially the "rape porn" part, is bringing the rest of the country more in line with Scotland in that regard. To be honest that's the most worrying part. This country already has horrific laws about alternative sexuality and this muddies the waters further. Is rape porn when there is actual non-consent, which is illegal already, or is it anything that appears to be rough and violent in nature. Is Irreversible now illegal? If not, why not etc. It's typical wooly wording that helps no one.

People who watch rape porn should be changed with the same crime the rapist got charged with. Don't want to get into that right now, I'm just pissed of at this big brother state bullshit.

 

[Portugeezer]

Opt out? Should be opt in what is this, nanny state much?

Ridiculous... but didn't they also block pirate bay, so easy for people to access it regardless.

 

[MJLord]

And this is my point. So many posts about "you should do this, you should educate them, you should say this.." etc. GAF does not seem to realise that raising a child is not like reading a parenting manual and applying things that should work in theory.

To use your example above. Of course I've spoken to them about this kind of thing. However, a parent's words are never going to trump peer pressure, and if many of their peers have access to this material and actively force expectations, then there's not a lot I can do as a parent. I'd much rather that the potential for their peers to access this material was severely limited.

In addition, I've noticed a lot of "I didn't have a computer / phone until I was 16/18" type posts. Life has changed a lot, and kids mostly have phones when they hit secondary school, and internet usage has become so pervasive, that my kids cannot even check their homework diaries without being online. Everything is done almost exclusively online now, meaning regular access to a computer is pretty much a necessity.

You've really just cut to the heart of why many many people oppose this. The internet is an essential medium through which we can share information and spread ideas. Unfortunately people use it to share information that we don't view as moral. If you start to block things automatically because a certain group doesn't agree with it then what? If a group of highly religious people were in control would everything that went against their beliefs be blocked? It is after all immoral to them.

Cameron shouldn't be blocking the medium because it is just that. He should be going after the people who create this content. His triangle metaphor is incorrect. It is a straight line between the content creators and the people who watch it. The line is the ISP.

As for your kids being able to view it. Explain what it is. Keep an eye on them. They'll mature into adults who will think of it as you or I.

 

[Symphonia]

Is 100% block of porn possible ? if they did this, will i not be able to see any naked pics/videos at all ?

If this does go ahead, the least I want to see is David Cameron's head where the tits are. I will at least be amused for thirty seconds before I clock on that the muggy cunt has restricted my freedom further.

 

[Captain_Spanky]

People who watch rape porn should be changed with the same crime the rapist got charged with. Don't want to get into that right now, I'm just pissed of at this big brother state bullshit.

But what do you mean by rape porn? Porn depicting actual rape or consenting adults engaging in one of the most common female fantasies?

 

[Soodanim]

I'm not sure how much you know about local web blocking software, but it can degrade performance and the fact that it embeds itself so deeply into the operating system is a huge issue - apart from the incompatibilities that the software can introduce, there are potentially many little vulnerabilities being introduced that any nasty piece of malware may be able to hook into.. Besides, I am not even sure if there *is* any appropriate blocking software for Fedora.

I haven't used it in a while, but doesn't OpenDNS have options for filters? That makes your OS irrelevant. There are probably ways of filtering using your Router, too.

 

[MJLord]

But what do you mean by rape porn? Porn depicting actual rape or consenting adults engaging in one of the most common female fantasies?

EDIT : Smaller image

 

[kurtrussell]

I get why parents may be in favour of an ISP-level block on pornography. It is a very clean solution, no need for dodgy software, won't affect performance, no technical knowledge required. I get all that. What I don't understand is why parents can't simply opt-in to the filter rather than having it applied by default on every internet connection in the United Kingdom. You want to protect your children from pornography? Then log on to your ISP account and check the box yourself. And that way at least some form of parental responsibility remains intact by the nanny state.

And this is perhaps the most reasonable argument presented so far. I'm entirely in favour of an opt in filter at isp level and would actively engage this should AAISP offer one.


However, this still does not address the issue of parents that literally do not give a shit which introduces a vector for questionable material to be introduced via their peers.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I haven't used it in a while, but doesn't OpenDNS have options for filters? That makes your OS irrelevant. There are probably ways of filtering using your Router, too.

Yup, the Virgin "super"hub has options to filter adult content from what I remember and even specific IP addresses so parents can even block specific websites like Youporn etc...

 

[jimi_dini]

Firstly, before we all implode with rage, let's remember that it's a filter not a block. If you want to watch porn online, opt in. If you feel too embarrassed / ashamed to do so, then you have a much more deep rooted problem that would probably benefit from a few sessions with a therapist.

The filter will block content. The filter is just not mandatory

Spoiler

yet

. Plenty of people may also be ashamed to call/not bother. And don't assume that the filter will never block non-porn content.

It's maybe just maybe a way to actually have a working infrastructure for censorship. Plenty of governments do exactly this. I wonder why that's the case. Maybe there will be "few" more problems in a few years and a "few" people will be fed up by it.

For example in Australia:

http://www.theage.com.au/technology...of-sneaking-in-web-filter-20130517-2jq3p.html

The federal government has been accused of sneaking mandatory web filtering through the back door after one of its agencies inadvertently blocked 1200 websites using a little-known law.

Technology news website Delimiter this week revealed the Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) last month used a telco law to ask major internet service providers (ISPs) to block a website it believed was defrauding Australians.

Isn't that nice? Australian government trying to protect Australians. That's definitely not internet censorship. It's about helping Australians to not get defrauded. Same here. It's not about internet censorship. It's about protecting children. Child porn!!!! Think about the children!!! Internet censorship is done by China. Western countries just filter sites that they assume are bad for their citizens. Completely different.

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/te...-website-took-down-250000-20130605-2np6v.html

The largest number of sites censored when attempting to block one particular site ASIC believed was defrauding Australians was 250,000. Of these, ASIC said about 1000, or 0.4 per cent, were active sites.

...
In another already reported case, about 1200 sites were blocked by mistake. On the other eight occasions ASIC said "only the targeted criminal site, or the targeted site and a very small number of other sites" were affected.
...
Use of section 313 to block websites was only uncovered last month after the webmasters of the Melbourne Free University site couldn't figure out why it was no longer accessible. After making a number of inquiries to their ISP, the webmasters were told that the Australian government had blocked access to the site. The ISP wouldn't provide any more detail.

They may also just do this because the porn industry gave them lots of cash to do it. Maybe it's both.

 

[axisofweevils]

What worries me about this is the Scunthorpe Problem. (A place in the UK that has an unfortunate habit of being blocked by these filters because it has a rude word in its name.)

No porn filter is 100 % effective and how would it distinguish between real porn and anatomical diagrams, for example.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

Just read this in the paper this morning. FUCK THIS SHIT. I look forward to finding ways around this.

 

[kurtrussell]

Just read this in the paper this morning. FUCK THIS SHIT. I look forward to finding ways around this.

There is a really easy way around this. You just call up and ask your isp not to engage filtering.

 

[Captain_Spanky]

EDIT : Smaller image

You're right, but it's still a conversation that needs to happen.

From BBC - Online Pornography To Be Blocked By Defeault

In addition, the prime minister said possessing online pornography depicting rape would become illegal in England and Wales - in line with Scotland

It's pretty much the first sentence. It needs to be part of the conversation. It's tightening our countries already pretty shocking laws about sex. Now whether they are enforced is another matter (the BDSM laws in general are not) but if this is a shift the country takes it's a cause for concern in my opinion. It's a minefield for sure but one we need to navigate.

 

[Ziltoid]

However, this still does not address the issue of parents that literally do not give a shit which introduces a vector for questionable material to be introduced via their peers.

Why should the decisions of stupid parents affect the rest of us?

 

[Dabanton]

Other measures announced by the prime minister included:

New laws so videos streamed online in the UK will be subject to the same restrictions as those sold in shops

Whats this one all about?

How would this affect sites like youporn and their ilk?

 

[Bony Manifesto]

However, this still does not address the issue of parents that literally do not give a shit which introduces a vector for questionable material to be introduced via their peers.

Clearly we need some sort of 'filter' for people becoming parents. We should sterilize everyone in the UK at birth and then reverse it when people explicitly request they want to have a child.

 

[Wind's Howling]

Whats this one all about?

How would this affect sites like youporn and their ilk?

Meaning you have to immigrate somewhere other than the UK if you want to watch online streaming porn on your mobile.