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[Jonm1010]

Yes they have. Hardware sales increased in all territories with the release of Pikmin 3 and you'll see the same thing happening with The Wonderful 101, Wii Play U, Wind Waker HD, Donkey Kong, Super Mario 3D World and Wii Fit U.

Software sells hardware at the end of the day. We saw this when the Wii U had a sales bump in March with the releases of Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate and Lego City Undercover.

You'd be a fool to think that the releases of those titles I've listed above, alongside the likes of Rayman Legends, CoD Ghosts, Assassin's Creed IV, Watch Dogs, Sonic Lost World and Mario and Sonic At The Olympics won't have a positive effect on hardware sales even before you start to take the $50 price cut into consideration.

The Wii U is going to have an installed userbase over 8m before the end of the year imo, the PS4 and One will both be under 2m and hopefully all this talk of the Wii U being 'd00med' will stop.

You think the wiiU is going to sell over a million units a month on average til the end of the year to hit 8million? In the face of two huge competitors, their own new handheld and against current gen competition?

Do people think through before they post?

 

[Warm Machine]

And then this post goes on to imply that Nintendo can't even reach GameCube sales this gen, even though not one system seller has been released for the platform and the console went through the most anemic drought ever for a major video game manufacturer.

Amazing.

Lets be fair. Nintendo thought that a lot of their released software so far were going to be system sellers. Otherwise they would never have launched with them. They likely thought NSMBU was going to do bananas.

 

[SmokyDave]

Yes they have. Hardware sales increased in all territories with the release of Pikmin 3 and you'll see the same thing happening with The Wonderful 101, Wii Play U, Wind Waker HD, Donkey Kong, Super Mario 3D World and Wii Fit U.

Software sells hardware at the end of the day. We saw this when the Wii U had a sales bump in March with the releases of Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate and Lego City Undercover.

You'd be a fool to think that the releases of those titles I've listed above, alongside the likes of Rayman Legends, CoD Ghosts, Assassin's Creed IV, Watch Dogs, Sonic Lost World and Mario and Sonic At The Olympics won't have a positive effect on hardware sales even before you start to take the $50 price cut into consideration.

The Wii U is going to have an installed userbase over 8m before the end of the year imo, the PS4 and One will both be under 2m and hopefully all this talk of the Wii U being 'd00med' will stop.

Dude, you should probably start reading the sales threads before you make these sorts of assertions. You're way off the mark.

If anything, sales have gone down in Japan since W101 launched (and subsequently bombed). Pikmin caused a minor blip over there, nothing more.

 

[Rushersauce]

Pokemon on iOS plz.

NO.
And what a crappy article, no clicks from me.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

I love posts that say Nintendo CANNOT compete without bleeding edge tech, but then need to immediately dismiss the Wii as a "fad", like the pet rock or the chia pet.

So far the wii sports/wii fit/waggle crap has proved to be a fad.

Non gamers bought Wii for those games, and it ended up gathering dust like every other diet/exercise fad fat, lazy people buy into and give up on instead of changing their lifestyle and actually being healthy.

The vast majority of those people aren't buying another motion control game console. If nintendo wants to capture non-gamers again, they'll have to come up with something totally different to pull them in again.

Maybe they will, maybe they won't. The rise of smartphones, tablets, facebook games etc. makes that non-gamer/casual gamer market harder to tap into with a pricey console though since those people can get games for free or $1-3 on devices they already own.

 

[Guevara]

profit is profit is profit is profit

2 consecutive years of losses. And almost everything (hardware and software) has missed sales targets. I really don't know how anyone can spin this as "good" or even "ok".

 

[fred]

So you are saying they are going to sell more than 4 million machines in the next 4 months world wide?

I can't see why not. 1m between now and 31st October and 3-4m between 1st November and 31st December is very doable if Nintendo can get enough stock on shelves. It's all in the software at the end of the day.

 

[commish]

I can't see why not. 1m between now and 31st October and 3-4m between 1st November and 31st December is very doable if Nintendo can get enough stock on shelves. It's all in the software at the end of the day.

Right....

 

[chadboban]

Indeed, come November 15th-22nd, the WiiU and Nintendo have a real fight on their hands.

If not for the 3DS, they could be in trouble.


They need to concede defeat with the WiiU by next year if things have not turned around, and release a next gen console on par or better than the Xbox One and PS4.

Should it not turn around, they'll just ride it out like they did with the Gamecube. Releasing a new console so soon would only make things worse.

A little off topic: Honestly, reading this thread, I kinda miss the days when I was oblivious to all this stuff. Sure it's nice to be informed about how gaming is progressing, but I still remember the times when I used to play games without the knowledge of sales and financial woes of gaming companies. I was so out of the loop I had no idea the Gamecube had such low lifetime sales. Hell I thought the Dreamcast was successful because I loved the thing so much. I really miss just enjoying a game for what it was without having to go online to find out that it sold like crap or to see people fighting over which console is best or which one sucks. I know I'm now more aware of the gaming culture and the industry in general and it's all really fascinating stuff, but I just kind of miss the days when I just didn't give a shit about those aspects.

 

[ScOULaris]

While we've done this song and dance before, I do honestly think that things are looking worse than ever for Nintendo. Not only are sales down below where they should be across all of their hardware, but their whole approach to the market just seems to be going in totally the wrong direction. They'd have to completely change course on both hardware and software fronts to right this ship.

 

[Burai]

Then the question becomes: why would Apple ever agree to such an arrangement?

They wouldn't get ownership of Nintendo IP. They'd get a worse revenue split than any other software developer they work with. They'd set the terrible precedent of making an exception for one developer (why not EA? Why not Microsoft? Et cetera).

They've already added the controller APIs, without Nintendo. Third parties will already be shipping controllers, without Nintendo. They're already one of the largest companies in the world, without Nintendo.

What does Apple gain out of the relationship you describe? Most people arguing that Nintendo should go mobile are saying it's (potentially) for Nintendo's benefit, not Apple's.

Exactly. Apple have made a whole ton of money out of gaming on iOS and have spent very little time and money to do so. They don't want or need to bend over backwards to get AAA developers on board.

Nintendo aren't worth shit to Apple.

 

[Bisnic]

Always considered $250 to be the console sweet spot.

You could almost say the Wii U is already 250$. You're just "forced" to buy the included Wind Waker HD with it.

 

[Shiggy]

I can't see why not. 1m between now and 31st October and 3-4m between 1st November and 31st December is very doable if Nintendo can get enough stock on shelves. It's all in the software at the end of the day.

Great song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQDHCyFe2rY

After the epic W101 bomba I'd have even less faith in the sales potential of the upcoming titles.

 

[Carpe Diem]

Think that about covers it.

OMFG...I laughed so hard

 

[Azure Dream]

You could almost say the Wii U is already 250$. You're just "forced" to buy the included Wind Waker HD with it.

That's if you value the Wind Waker HD as a $50 product, which some people do not. Some of us also aren't interested in replaying games we played plenty of in the Gamecube era. And you don't even get a physical disc copy, just a download code.

 

[Warm Machine]

The whole thing about Nintendo right now is that they are by far the most interesting story and discussion point out there. They have the most to lose right now, the most competition from all sides, and have the most to gain by fixing their problems, embracing the youth market, and moving forward.

In regards to the DOOMED talk.

Nintendo Consoles were at 98% market share in North America during the NES.
Dropped to 50% in the 16-bit era.
Dropped to sub 25% in the 32-bit era.
Dropped to around 10% in the Xbox/PS2/GC
Increased to 38ish% in the current era.

They were on a slide for years. Lord knows what the WiiU is going to end up with. It is incredibly interesting finding out though.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

I can't see why not. 1m between now and 31st October and 3-4m between 1st November and 31st December is very doable if Nintendo can get enough stock on shelves. It's all in the software at the end of the day.

I just can't see how any of the games coming out this fall are going to jump system sales up that much, with core gamers mostly focused on the PS4 and X1 launches, as well as all the great games coming out for PS3/360.

A Zelda remake, another Mario platformer etc. just aren't going to get that many people to buy in IMO. Sales will improve some for sure, but I can't see that level as that's just more stuff that appeals only to kids/families and Nintendo diehards. And a lot of those will probably be more focused on 3DS with the new Zelda and Pokemon games coming out.

 

[Guevara]

The whole thing about Nintendo right now is that they are by far the most interesting story and discussion point out there. They have the most to lose right now, the most competition from all sides, and have the most to gain by fixing their problems, embracing the youth market, and moving forward.

Personally I think Microsoft is the most interesting of the big gaming companies right now. They're almost certain to pivot in the next 3-6 months.

 

[Partition]

Plastic Iphone, Apple following Samsungs lead, they admitted defeat and lost!

Or Apple is just making a device to appease a market they aren't meeting their demand? Like China?

 

[braves01]

Nintendo should expand more aggressively into toys and merchandise. Maybe partner with Mattel or something to make a major new line of Pokemon toys or Animal Crossing toys. Those seem like they would sell well (for years) across a pretty wide swath of ages and across both genders.

Interest in the toys will help buoy game sales and vice versa. It would help create self-reinforcing demand for Nintendo products.

 

[Bizazedo]

I can't see why not. 1m between now and 31st October and 3-4m between 1st November and 31st December is very doable if Nintendo can get enough stock on shelves. It's all in the software at the end of the day.

What games do you see driving this? Please don't say Wind Waker remake, but if you honestly feel that should be included, that's fine.

If the next-gen machines weren't arriving in November (and look at what the announcement of those machines did to 360 / PS3 sales), I think more people would be on board, but as stated ... your previous examples of Pikmin 3 and Wonderful 101 actually didn't boost sales. A small blip for Pikmin 3 (and the # it did help boost it to was, honestly, irrelevant) and Wonderful 101 is unfortunately going through undeserved hell at the moment.

 

[airmangataosenai]

What? Nintendo reported only one year of operaring loss since they went public, that is last year, as far as I know.

No, their gaming division was in the red for both 2011 and 2012 (Operating Income is what shows this). The overall company made a small profit in 2012 (Net Income) on the back of currency speculation. The 3DS hasn't done well enough thus far to produce a profit for the division.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Or Apple is just making a device to appease a market they aren't meeting their demand? Like China?

They've talked about it (or rumors hinted at anyway) being both for emerging markets where cheaper devices sell better, but also to be a cheaper option in western markets to get it in more people's hands and sell more apps.

 

[LocalE]

This could be me not paying enough attention to 3DS releases, but where are the great titles?

Yes, this is just you not paying enough attention. It doesn't take much looking to find some great games for the 3DS.

Enter the 2DS; this may not be for me, but I can't see this thing selling much after the initial batch that gets picked up for kids alongside a Pokemon game.

I think you hit a nail on the head. It's not for you.
And I'd bet it sells pretty well for some time, myself.

Great article...*snip*

Interesting that we read the same article.

Trying to claim that because someone doesn't understand the intricate financial complexities of Nintendo's balance sheets doesn't diminish a persons ability to identify problems and failures in certain aspects of a companies strategy and performance.

Actually, I wasn't claiming very much. I am actually curious the extent to which that person, and others who share similar opinions and conclusions, has really considered the issue. Because they seem so certain that they understand the situation. It would be nice to know that they had actually made the effort to understand and analyze the situation before becoming so certain in their conclusions.
And for all I know, that person has considered some of those aspects and has some insight into the situation which I am not privy to.

I completely disagree.

They have a good console that just needs more software. It has a lot of potential.

I agree.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And I also got a kick out of seeing that Patcher hails this as a well-written article.
Good thing he doesn't get paid to recognize well-written articles, I guess.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Been said, but I do think Nintendo is in a much harder position than in previous generations. Their console has had an anemic launch, and their handheld business is shrinking over their last hardware generation by significant margins. And both markets are under attack from other devices and segments, which they seem ill prepared to respond to. Just having years of success and lots of cash does not mean they will succeed in the future to anywhere near the same degree. They're not dying - yet - but are certainly in a very defensive position, with their core markets eroding out from under their (slowly marching elephant) feet.

 

[John Harker]

Let's look at it another way, I'll even use the examples being tossed around in the thread, I care less that there at 8MM Wii Us than 2MM PS4/XBO's out there, when the software conversation rate on a Wii U is anemic. if I'm going to ship a game and sell less than 10k units on it, how important is it really to me that there are so many Wii U's out there? Pre order numbers for some PS4 titles alone are higher than what some Wii U games have LTD.

The numbers are talking right now, and they are saying that, even at the ultimate best case scenario, and Nintendo is helping me, I can MAYBE move 150k units as a ceiling. I'm more likely to be around 30k-50k if it's multiplatform, and this isn't even factoring in quality or genre. It's just the market.

If Mario can sell 800k off 1.1MM units, I'm sure Nintendo will make it out fine themselves.
It's just not a system to date that, by it's very nature, compels consumers to purchase natively, which makes it even more difficult to convert for software not tied to Nintendo IP.

Which is a shame. Because I think it's sweet.

 

[fred]

What games do you see driving this? Please don't say Wind Waker remake, but if you honestly feel that should be included, that's fine.

If the next-gen machines weren't arriving in November (and look at what the announcement of those machines did to 360 / PS3 sales), I think more people would be on board, but as stated ... your previous examples of Pikmin 3 and Wonderful 101 actually didn't boost sales. A small blip for Pikmin 3 (and the # it did help boost it to was, honestly, irrelevant) and Wonderful 101 is unfortunately going through undeserved hell at the moment.

I've already listed them.

 

[Warm Machine]

Personally I think Microsoft is the most interesting of the big gaming companies right now. They're almost certain to pivot in the next 3-6 months.

I see that as well. I'm really curious to see how much the enthusiast gamer internet really matters when it comes to the market at large and swaying favour. Also, price is a huge factor coming up.

 

[Bizazedo]

I've already listed them.

So you did, apologies!

Rayman Legends
CoD Ghosts
Assassin's Creed IV
Watch Dogs
Sonic Lost World
Mario and Sonic At The Olympics

These?

4 multiplats, 3 of which should theoretically be better on a PS4 or XBone, and Sonic Lost World and Mario and Sonic?

Re-stating, to be clear. You base a 4 million+ sold statement on a majority of titles where they're inferior to other versions on competitors? In a market where even if potential customers are not getting the PS4 or XBone, they probably already have a 360 or PS3 and thus wouldn't need to get a Wii U?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I've already listed them.

Show me Pikmin 3 numbers that increase sales in all territories as you claim.

 

[Shiggy]

I've already listed them.

But do you really think another 3D Mario is going to increase the sales a lot when NSMB U, the sequel to the way more successful 2D games, hasn't done much for Wii U sales? And why shall we expect more for DKCR2 either when it's yet another 2D platformer that caters mostly to the NSMB audience? A Zelda remake probably won't do much either based on the numbers that Skyward Sword posted.

Of course, there are also the casual titles, namely Wii U Party and Wii Fit U. It seems as if not even Nintendo believes in the success of the latter anymore. And Wii U Party is yet another game that's more of the same, I doubt that many people are willing to invest into Wii U hardware if they only get sequels to Wii games.

 

[Jonm1010]

So you did, apologies!


These?

4 multiplats, 3 of which should theoretically be better on a PS4 or XBone, and Sonic Lost World and Mario and Sonic?

Re-stating, to be clear. You base a 4 million+ sold statement on a majority of titles where they're inferior to other versions on competitors? In a market where even if potential customers are not getting the PS4 or XBone, they probably already have a 360 or PS3 and thus wouldn't need to get a Wii U?

I think he's putting his real money behind Mario 3d, zelda, wii play and wii fit driving the sales. I think he's way overvaluing them in the face of the competition but at this point he doesn't seem like he's gonna be reasoned with.

 

[Shiggy]

I think he's putting his real money behind Mario 3d, zelda, wii play and wii fit driving the sales. I think he's way overvaluing them in the face of the competition but at this point he doesn't seem like he's gonna be reasoned with.

While we are at vastly overestimating the sales impact of Wii U titles, what did happen to Snowden's Secret?

 

[chadboban]

I can't see why not. 1m between now and 31st October and 3-4m between 1st November and 31st December is very doable if Nintendo can get enough stock on shelves. It's all in the software at the end of the day.

I like Nintendo, plan to buy a Wii U by the end of this year with a bunch of games but fred, dude you're WAY delusional with those predictions. In order for them to accomplish what you're saying they will have to sell at least 80,000 units a week on average in every territory (NA,EU and JP) starting this week and I honestly just don't see that happening.

 

[Satchel]

I actually like my WiiU and 3DS, but I can understand why the WiiU isn't doing so well.

I think Nintendos next console should be a powerful handheld packed in with a wireless HDMI sender that instantly turns it into a home console. Similar power to WiiU but in portable form.

I think something like that would do really well and allow Nintendo's teams to focus on one platform. But create games that work at home or on the go given the platform acts as both.

 

[d31m0s]

Yes, let's completely overlook the fact that the Wii put Nintendo in a comfortable financial position for this next generation.

This guy is baiting HARD.

Nintendo has enough money to last 20+ years at this small loss.They have the highest profit margin of any game console maker and if microsoft could survive the losses of the original xbox then nintendo can survive these miniscule losses by comparison

 

[jaz013]

So, basically, this article is 'right' because "Nintendo" and "reasons"....


Yep, another Nintendooooooomed article.

 

[Lumyst]

I remember long ago I saw video game consoles more like "children's toys", and the video game, computer, and movie industry as separate, but now here we are, with iPhones/pads, smartphone-gaming, consoles connected to the internet. We have Sony, a hardware maker but also they have a say in the entertainment (music, tv, movie) industry, and Microsoft, the maker of Windows, of MS office, of the OS on all the computers in my life; all with a stake in not only video games but in the other technologies of the world: phones, smart devices, computers (even Sony makes Windows PCs, there's two of them in my household), add to that media. It seems Nintendo is up against two competitors who are, like it or not, bringing a convergence of many forms of entertainment and many forms of technology into game consoles, sometimes letting those things mesh with the games themselves, and as always, the internet and connectivity is also a part of that. And the issue is, many of the potential customers of video game consoles are now expecting that smooth meshing of so many technologies and media as a standard that video game consoles must meet. There are some efforts shown with the WiiU (TVii, the standard media apps, but I admit it would have been nice to stream BluRay movies to the gamepad...) but I wonder if they will go all out next time, because the video game console might have evolved beyond being a toy.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

I actually like my WiiU and 3DS, but I can understand why the WiiU isn't doing so well.

I think Nintendos next console should be a powerful handheld packed in with a wireless HDMI sender that instantly turns it into a home console. Similar power to WiiU but in portable form.

I think something like that would do really well and allow Nintendo's teams to focus on one platform. But create games that work at home or on the go given the platform acts as both.

I agree.

Being able to focus on one platform would be huge since they're so reliant on first party software to sale hardware and make profit for them.

The split console/portable market hurts them as plenty of gamers are like me and just opt for the cheaper portable system to get our or Mario/Metroid/Zelda fix. And having to make those games for the portable means fewer of them for the console, which is a big part of the Wii U's lagging sales.

 

[mattiewheels]

Nintendo is not dead. The 3DS proves that. I just think the Wii U is overpriced even at $299

Nintendo is dead in the home console market. Japan isn't really interested in consoles anymore, and they serve a pretty niche audience in the rest of the world. Handhelds are their future, but consoles are something they either turn their attention back to the casual audience that bought the Wii, or they become irrelevant for the most part.

 

[Warm Machine]

I'm interpreting the death of Nintendo as being not the death of Nintendo the corporation, but the death of their current business model(s) and traditional console, handheld strategy.

Personally, I do think that model is "doomed" for them based on the market and kids growing up in a distinctly different era than we had 5 years ago. The two pillar Nintendo with physical boxed games will likely be gone forever in 3 years to be replaced with something a lot more contemporary and forward looking.

I doubt Nintendo is ever going to shake their perceived market without significant investment in games for the 20 something demographic. Really, there is no point in that anyway. The handheld or flexible game market doesn't require it to thrive.

 

[Sendou]

Nintendo is dead in the home console market. Japan isn't really interested in consoles anymore, and they serve a pretty niche audience in the rest of the world. Handhelds are their future, but consoles are something they either turn their attention back to the casual audience that bought the Wii, or they become irrelevant for the most part.

Even if that was the case Wii U is a very poor indicator of that.

 

[Jonm1010]

Nintendo has enough money to last 20+ years at this small loss.They have the highest profit margin of any game console maker and if microsoft could survive the losses of the original xbox then nintendo can survive these miniscule losses by comparison

investors don't think like that. The blackberry point in the OP actually is a very good analogy.

While we are at vastly overestimating the sales impact of Wii U titles, what did happen to Snowden's Secret?

Not sure. I just noticed today I saw a thread he posted in got bumped and it said banned. Wonder what he did?

 

[SporeCrawler]

2 consecutive years of losses. And almost everything (hardware and software) has missed sales targets. I really don't know how anyone can spin this as "good" or even "ok".

the numbers are bad but far from nintendoom

sony or MSs Xbox devision posts losses too. however nobody says Sonydooomed or Xboxdoomed

 

[Jonm1010]

the numbers are bad but far from nintendoom

sony or MSs Xbox devision posts losses too. however nobody says Sonydooomed or Xboxdoomed

Actually the growing sentiment about the Xbox is if it isn't another wild success Microsoft might get out of the console game altogether.

However xbox is rolled Into a division with a lot of other failures and expenses not related to Xbox so its hard to measure the xboxs financial successes and failures.

 

[Log4Girlz]

The "3DS is 20% under DS therefore Nintendo is on the brink of financial ruin" has always baffled me. Oh look, they didn't manage to follow up one of the biggest hits of all time with an even greater hit. Is that bad? Sure, probably, from a business perspective. Does it literally represent a chance of financial devastation? If it does then something is massively fucked up somewhere. That's simply not reasonable expectations.

The WiiU is a more credible problem.

Some are worried about the trend, particularly in the North America which has traditionally bought the most Nintendo hardware of any form. It is quite down in the Americas. Also, in the past, their handhelds saw no real competition from anyone, or any market. But mobiles are now targeted squarely at people's pockets and they play games just fine.

 

[Sendou]

investors don't think like that. The blackberry point in the OP actually is a very good analogy.

It's not because they're not even in remotely similiar situations. However people should realize that company just doesn't go on with making losses. That would mean the company continued existing with failing to do the one task it has. If Nintendo would continue bringing in the losses they would ultimately have to change their whole approach to business and if that failed then I guess they would end up selling their property (including IP's) but I really doubt it would come down to that. Going 3rd party would be first in line after dropping one platform though.

I'd stress that Wii U isn't a good indicator whether Nintendo can go on with two platforms. It has been such a failure on so many levels so far. I refuse to believe it's the best they can do.

 

[mantidor]

No, their gaming division was in the red for both 2011 and 2012 (Operating Income is what shows this). The overall company made a small profit in 2012 (Net Income) on the back of currency speculation. The 3DS hasn't done well enough thus far to produce a profit for the division.

What do you mean by their gaming division? Wouldn't that be the only one?

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Personally I think Microsoft is the most interesting of the big gaming companies right now. They're almost certain to pivot in the next 3-6 months.

I think they've done more than their fair share of pivoting already...

 

[Haines]

Troll article to get page views. Yuck.