Could this be a "breakout" Holiday season for the Wii-U?

Prankster01, calling someone "a deluded fanboy talking out of your ass" is not the best idea. Take a breather.


Anyway, I don't see any kind of steady increase in hardware sales until maybe MK8 for this console at this point. :( But 3D world should help a bit during the holidays
 
The Wi U is shit. You're just a deluded fanboy talking out of his ass. And Nintendo stand to make far more money by opening up their games to a larger market (albeit giving a cut to Sony/MS/Valve).

Skylanders proves that cutesy games do sell (in vast numbers) on mainstream consoles. The Wii U is not mainstream, and nothing that will ever come out on Wii U will ever attain mass market penetration.

Tomb Raider sold 3 million copies in FOUR WEEKS and was a disappointment. There aren't even 3 million ACTIVE Wii U systems on the market. The Wii U is also not even going to have the same worldwide penetration rate as the Dreamcast - especially now that the world has set its eyes on the PS4/XBone.

What makes you even think that Nintendo are going to be able to profit on their games, when there is no hope in hell that their games will ever be able to rack up the necessary sales to even approach Tomb Raider levels? Plus, Nintendo lose money on their Wii U hardware.

Your argument comes off as inane. Sony and Microsoft have a very hospitable third party publishing strategy. Nintendo can (and will be given the leeway) to delay their games if necessary. And the PS4/XBone/PC architecture is a far cry from the convulated hardware that the PS2 and Saturn had.

Here's a thought for you to maybe try to comprehend: you ever looked at UPlay or Origin? People don't have to spend a penny to get that to play the latest Ubisoft / EA game. And yet they still complain, because they want the game to be under the Steam umbrella. Even indie developers who get good reviews for their games struggle to sell them if the games aren't on Steam. Sure, these devevelopers don't have to pay Valve a cut if they sell the game via their own portal, but they still lose out as people aren't prepared to have to go through that extra hassle of having to acquire the said game.

What makes you think that the mainstream will pick up a Wii U / Nintendo console, when they already have a mainstream console? And what makes you think that people will be prepared to pay for this service, when Uplay and Origin have shown how hard it is for people to want to switch over.

I see Nintendo as being the equivalent of that indie developer who isn't on Steam. Sure, they get to keep all the money, and release games at their convenience. But Nintendo is missing out, and they only have themselves to blame for their pathetic sales figures.

There is a saying: when you do something, do it well, otherwise don't do it all.

Nintendo don't do consoles well. For them to continue down this path is not only a waste of their time (and a drain on their resources), but on their audiences as well. Hell, they can't even make extra money from the license fees as no-one wants to touch them.

So yes, the Wii U is shit. And your pathetic putdown looks like the sad bickering of a deluded fanboy who has got more money than sense. Shame the mainstream doesn't share your point of view, as that probably explains why Nintendo has only accrued 3 million sales to date. Oh wait: things will pick up next year, I hear you say? Keep dreaming.

Dude, chill out.

Calling people deluded fanboys talking out of their asses is not the way to have this conversation.

Edit: beaten
 
As in "breakout" of the sales slump.... With the other "Big two" geared to fight to the death in NA and EU this holiday season, all indications point out that supplies could be very limited post launch for the PS4 and XB1... Does this give the Wii-U a chance to sneak in and get a big boost in holiday sales with bare shelves for the other two? Another factor could be that many Wal-Mart's are currently sold out of premium Wii-U's from their Holiday Layaways, (in my area at least) but there are plenty of PS3 bundles and SS 360's available on shelves. This could be because there has been limited stock ordered by retailers in the past, or people are finally starting to realize it exists and parents need something "new" for their kids. Will the below list be enough to push hardware sales even with Donkey Kong pushed back into 2014?

The reason PS3 and 360 are available on shelves is because they've been out for 7 and 8 years, respectively. Most people that wanted them already have one, and the few that have held out this long probably won't bite on a more expensive Wii U. I don't see the Wii U having a breakout holiday this year because the cost is still prohibitive for it being basically last-gen. Anyone looking to buy it will be looking at it and comparing its more expensive price point to the 360 and PS3 and going "why would I get that when there's a massive library for these other two, and their 1-year or older titles are dirt cheap?".

I really only see the Wii U selling to die-hard Nintendo fans and to a few parents here and there that want to give their child a console but want it to be "kiddie" friendly (aka children ages 5 to 8).

I'm not saying that it only targets that demographic, but just that the general public impression of the Nintendo brand is as such.

If they released a $149 or $199 sku with the pro controller instead of the tablet and maybe bundled in a Mario game in the $199 sku then my opinion would be different. (Maybe this last part is just my desire for such a sku to be released so I can own a Nintendo console again.)

All my statements are based on anecdotal evidence though and my own personal opinion.

Rant snippet

Really uncalled for man. You can disagree with someone without resorting to name calling like that. Personally I don't think the Wii U is ever going to reach huge success levels. Hopefully it at least turns a meager profit for Nintendo so that they can go back to the drawing board and give us the Nintendo experience but with a "core" console approach in 5 or 6 years, around the time that PS4 and XB1 start showing their age. I'd be totally down for that. All of my personal beefs against Nintendo's approach to the console itself aside, Mario 3D World looks like an absolutely amazing game, and it's that kind of stuff that's kept Nintendo in the console sphere far longer than any of their other competitors along the way.
 
Prankster01, calling someone "a deluded fanboy talking out of your ass" is not the best idea. Take a breather.


Anyway, I don't see any kind of steady increase in hardware sales until maybe MK8 for this console at this point. :( But 3D world should help a bit during the holidays
I didn't appreciate the personal attack. I know my history. I have offered up "solutions" in previous posts. Hell, I even conceded when I was "wrong". But the level of fanboyism and delusionment shown by some people, who fail to see reason, yet making attacks on my credibility is insulting.

Edit: if I've offended anyone (including the person who I responded to), then I apologise.

Sincerely sorry.
 
What makes you even think that Nintendo are going to be able to profit on their games, when there is no hope in hell that their games will ever be able to rack up the necessary sales to even approach Tomb Raider levels? Plus, Nintendo lose money on their Wii U hardware.

I highly doubt Nintendo spends $100m on a development budget.

Reggie has been quoted saying that the average Wii (original Wii) title cost around $5 to $10 million, including all marketing costs. They are a lot more conservative with their marketing these days, focussing on Nintendo Directs. I'd guess that their development costs for a Wii U game have probably doubled from the Wii, based on when Miyamoto said that Wii U development cost twice the amount of resources than before.
 
I didn't appreciate the personal attack. I know my history. I have offered up "solutions" in previous posts. Hell, I even conceded when I was "wrong". But the level of fanboyism and delusionment shown by some people, who fail to see reason, yet making attacks on my credibility is insulting.

You're gonna go far here.
 
I highly doubt Nintendo spends $100m on a development budget.

Reggie has been quoted saying that the average Wii (original Wii) title cost around $5 to $10 million, including all marketing costs. They are a lot more conservative with their marketing these days, focussing on Nintendo Directs. I'd guess that their development costs for a Wii U game have probably doubled from the Wii, based on when Miyamoto said that Wii U development cost twice the amount of resources than before.
If this is the case, then fair play. But Miyamoto has also stated that Nintendo underestimated HD development - time, manpower etc. Hence why the Wii U still has no games.

It's easy to say that Nintendo throws out 10+ games a year. Those are mostly "indie" projects (with budgets and development time) to match. Most of those also come out for the 3DS - as it's cheaper to develop for it (plus larger userbase).

But console development is a different kettle of fish entirely. And I don't see Nintendo releasing anything "groundbreaking" (like Mario 64 etc) if they continue to play in that field. The sales figures just won't justify the R&D costs.

Next gen, there are very few developers making console exclusive games, as they all know that one console alone will not allow them to recoup. I don't see Nintendo being able to recoup when it comes to their own games. As great as they are, their sales will be hampered by the hardware they are hosted on. Even Rayman Legends had to go multi-plat, yet was still a disappointment. And that was an "indie" title.

I honestly don't see how games like MK8 will do well. Games like W101 have flopped, and this has hurt Nintendo, and the situation is only going to get worse.
 
It's easy to say that Nintendo throws out 10+ games a year. Those are mostly "indie" projects (with budgets and development time) to match. Most of those also come out for the 3DS - as it's cheaper to develop for it (plus larger userbase).

Indie projects? With budgets and development time to match? What the hell are you even talking about here? I mean this year they did release HarmoKnight but that's only one game...
 
The Wi U is shit. You're just a deluded fanboy talking out of his ass. And Nintendo stand to make far more money by opening up their games to a larger market (albeit giving a cut to Sony/MS/Valve).

Skylanders proves that cutesy games do sell (in vast numbers) on mainstream consoles. The Wii U is not mainstream, and nothing that will ever come out on Wii U will ever attain mass market penetration.

Tomb Raider sold 3 million copies in FOUR WEEKS and was a disappointment. There aren't even 3 million ACTIVE Wii U systems on the market. The Wii U is also not even going to have the same worldwide penetration rate as the Dreamcast - especially now that the world has set its eyes on the PS4/XBone.

What makes you even think that Nintendo are going to be able to profit on their games, when there is no hope in hell that their games will ever be able to rack up the necessary sales to even approach Tomb Raider levels? Plus, Nintendo lose money on their Wii U hardware.

Your argument comes off as inane. Sony and Microsoft have a very hospitable third party publishing strategy. Nintendo can (and will be given the leeway) to delay their games if necessary. And the PS4/XBone/PC architecture is a far cry from the convulated hardware that the PS2 and Saturn had.

Here's a thought for you to maybe try to comprehend: you ever looked at UPlay or Origin? People don't have to spend a penny to get that to play the latest Ubisoft / EA game. And yet they still complain, because they want the game to be under the Steam umbrella. Even indie developers who get good reviews for their games struggle to sell them if the games aren't on Steam. Sure, these devevelopers don't have to pay Valve a cut if they sell the game via their own portal, but they still lose out as people aren't prepared to have to go through that extra hassle of having to acquire the said game.

What makes you think that the mainstream will pick up a Wii U / Nintendo console, when they already have a mainstream console? And what makes you think that people will be prepared to pay for this service, when Uplay and Origin have shown how hard it is for people to want to switch over.

I see Nintendo as being the equivalent of that indie developer who isn't on Steam. Sure, they get to keep all the money, and release games at their convenience. But Nintendo is missing out, and they only have themselves to blame for their pathetic sales figures.

There is a saying: when you do something, do it well, otherwise don't do it all.

Nintendo don't do consoles well. For them to continue down this path is not only a waste of their time (and a drain on their resources), but on their audiences as well. Hell, they can't even make extra money from the license fees as no-one wants to touch them.

So yes, the Wii U is shit. And your pathetic putdown looks like the sad bickering of a deluded fanboy who has got more money than sense. Shame the mainstream doesn't share your point of view, as that probably explains why Nintendo has only accrued 3 million sales to date. Oh wait: things will pick up next year, I hear you say? Keep dreaming.

You know what's funny? I've never had a Nintendo since the Famicom. I went Mega Drive > PlayStation > PlayStation 2 > PC. The 3DS will be the first Nintendo system I'll be buying for myself this weekend. So yeah, you know where to shove that "fanboy" drivel.

Tomb Raider was a massive disappointment to Square-Enix because it did not meet their sales goal -- a goal which they based on the large budget they injected into its development. They pumped so much money into it that in order to recoup it and still get a tidy profit, the game had to sell more than 3~4 million, and when it did not, they scratched it off as a failure. Meanwhile, you have Dark Souls which, while selling "only" 2.3 million, was a commercial success for Capcom. You know why? Because they budgeted it reasonably and to expectations.

As for Origin and uPlay, are you fucking serious? Most players prefer Steam over Origin and uPlay because they are already entrenched with Steam's ecosystem. Indie developers would much rather go Steam than Origin and uPlay because of Steam's larger PC playerbase. Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo, on the other hand, have their own separate consoles and the only relevance your comparison has regarding this is in multiplatforms. But here's the thing: Nintendo doesn't thrive on multiplatforms. They've basically given a big "fuck you" to third-party developers (which, I personally think, is to their detriment) since the GC games and onwards (some would go as far as to say the N64 days). Multiplats have never been a big factor in Nintendo's success. They've always relied on their first-party games and IPs. And THAT is why your whole "Nintendo needs to go third-party" is both short-sighted and moronic.

You would know all this if you've only done your homework. Which, as you've shown so far, you clearly haven't. Your problem is that you spout opinions and hold them as fact ("the 3DS WILL fail come 205!", "Wii U WILL be on life support by 2015!"), driven by your irrational hate for Nintendo's consoles. Meanwhile, more reasonable people here are playing the wait-and-see attitude. Even those who have no love Nintendo.

EDIT: Read your apology. I understand, and I accept it. It's just the level of anti-Nintendo hate in threads like this have become overbearing and, while I do not hold any real loyalty to consoles, I recognize Nintendo for being the only competitor so far that is offering something different from Sony and Microsoft, both of which are also offering good games. I don't put consoles down, no matter their performance.

Unless they do something stupid and anti-consumer. Like what the Xbone did. Fortunately, Microsoft seems to be dialing it down.
 
I cannot picture a scenario where Nintendo convinces people that they want a Wii U this holiday. I mean, how could they? Right now, they have like, zero traction, and everyone is excited for the new consoles. Nintendo need more than just Mario 3D Land I think, and they don't have it.
 
The Wi U is shit. You're just a deluded fanboy talking out of his ass. And Nintendo stand to make far more money by opening up their games to a larger market (albeit giving a cut to Sony/MS/Valve).

Skylanders proves that cutesy games do sell (in vast numbers) on mainstream consoles. The Wii U is not mainstream, and nothing that will ever come out on Wii U will ever attain mass market penetration.

Tomb Raider sold 3 million copies in FOUR WEEKS and was a disappointment. There aren't even 3 million ACTIVE Wii U systems on the market. The Wii U is also not even going to have the same worldwide penetration rate as the Dreamcast - especially now that the world has set its eyes on the PS4/XBone.

What makes you even think that Nintendo are going to be able to profit on their games, when there is no hope in hell that their games will ever be able to rack up the necessary sales to even approach Tomb Raider levels? Plus, Nintendo lose money on their Wii U hardware.

Your argument comes off as inane. Sony and Microsoft have a very hospitable third party publishing strategy. Nintendo can (and will be given the leeway) to delay their games if necessary. And the PS4/XBone/PC architecture is a far cry from the convulated hardware that the PS2 and Saturn had.

Here's a thought for you to maybe try to comprehend: you ever looked at UPlay or Origin? People don't have to spend a penny to get that to play the latest Ubisoft / EA game. And yet they still complain, because they want the game to be under the Steam umbrella. Even indie developers who get good reviews for their games struggle to sell them if the games aren't on Steam. Sure, these devevelopers don't have to pay Valve a cut if they sell the game via their own portal, but they still lose out as people aren't prepared to have to go through that extra hassle of having to acquire the said game.

What makes you think that the mainstream will pick up a Wii U / Nintendo console, when they already have a mainstream console? And what makes you think that people will be prepared to pay for this service, when Uplay and Origin have shown how hard it is for people to want to switch over.

I see Nintendo as being the equivalent of that indie developer who isn't on Steam. Sure, they get to keep all the money, and release games at their convenience. But Nintendo is missing out, and they only have themselves to blame for their pathetic sales figures.

There is a saying: when you do something, do it well, otherwise don't do it all.

Nintendo don't do consoles well. For them to continue down this path is not only a waste of their time (and a drain on their resources), but on their audiences as well. Hell, they can't even make extra money from the license fees as no-one wants to touch them.

So yes, the Wii U is shit. And your pathetic putdown looks like the sad bickering of a deluded fanboy who has got more money than sense. Shame the mainstream doesn't share your point of view, as that probably explains why Nintendo has only accrued 3 million sales to date. Oh wait: things will pick up next year, I hear you say? Keep dreaming.

Edit: I've already mentioned that one way Nintendo could carry on in the hardware stakes is by paving the way to a 3DS successor, and releasing a portable Wii U that is 2DS compatible.

But some people will probably think that's a dumb idea. But whatever. It's not as if HD development doesn't cost a tonne of money. And it's not as if marketing also doesn't cost a tonne of money. Asset creation is expensive, hence why we got a HD update. If anyone cares about Nintendo games, to the extent that they don't want the games to be compromised, they would need to think how best Nintendo can go about selling a lot of copies in order for their software division to remain profitable. Because Nintendo (from a mainstream console perspective) are finished. The stakes are only going to get higher.

Why is this kind of rhetoric being tolerated here? I see bans getting passed out in other threads for name calling and trolling. I may not agree with MS policies but I don't call the people who are buying an XBone deluded or ass-talkers... It's the Internet, everyone is over the top, lets not take things too seriously and start attacking each other over console war silliness.
 
Indie projects? With budgets and development time to match? What the hell are you even talking about here? I mean this year they did release HarmoKnight but that's only one game...
Allow me to repeat myself. Games developed for the 3DS are significantly less resource intensive (time, money, manpower etc) than developing for Wii U.

I seem to recall the original Radiant Silvergun (or was it Ikaruga?) only taking 4 people 6-8 months to develop. So yeah, 3DS games are "indie/arthouse" games in comparison.
 
Allow me to repeat myself. Games developed for the 3DS are significantly less resource intensive (time, money, manpower etc) than developing for Wii U.

I seem to recall the original Radiant Silvergun (or was it Ikaruga?) only taking 4 people 6-8 months to develop. So yeah, 3DS games are "indie/arthouse" games in comparison.

Yeah I'm well aware that developing on less powerful hardware takes less resources but categorizing them as "indie/arthouse" games sounds like you have no idea that while there is a gap it isn't that huge.
 
You know what's funny? I've never had a Nintendo since the Famicom. I went Sega > PlayStation > PlayStation 2 > PC. The 3DS will be the first Nintendo system I'll be buying for myself this weekend. So yeah, you know where to shove that "fanboy" drivel.

Tomb Raider was a massive disappointment to Square-Enix because it did not meet their sales goal -- a goal which they based on the large budget they injected into its development. They pumped so much money into it that in order to recoup it and still get a tidy profit, the game had to sell more than 3~4 million, and when it did not, they scratched it off as a failure. Meanwhile, you have Dark Souls which, while selling "only" 2.3 million, was a commercial success for Capcom. You know why? Because they budgeted it reasonably and to expectations.

As for Origin and uPlay, are you fucking serious? Most players prefer Steam over Origin and uPlay because they are already entrenched with Steam's ecosystem. Indie developers would much rather go Steam than Origin and uPlay because of Steam's larger PC playerbase. Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo, on the other hand, have their own separate consoles and the only relevance your comparison has regarding this is in multiplatforms. But here's the thing: Nintendo doesn't thrive on multiplatforms. They've basically given a big "fuck you" to third-party developers (which, I personally think, is to their detriment) since the GC games and onwards (some would go as far as to say the N64 days). Multiplats have never been a big factor in Nintendo's success. They've always relied on their first-party games and IPs. And THAT is why your whole "Nintendo needs to go third-party" is both short-sighted and moronic.

You would know all this if you've only done your homework. Which, as you've shown so far, you clearly haven't. Your problem is that you spout opinions and hold them as fact ("the 3DS WILL ail come 205!", "Wii U WILL be on life support by 2015!"), driven by your irrational hate for Nintendo's consoles. Meanwhile, more reasonable people here are playing the wait-and-see attitude. Even those who have no love Nintendo.

EDIT: Read your apology. I understand, and I accept it. It's just the level of anti-Nintendo hate in threads like this have become overbearing and, while I do not hold any real loyalty to consoles, I recognize Nintendo for being the only competitor so far that is offering something different from Sony and Microsoft, both of which are also offering good games. I don't put consoles down, no matter their performance.

Unless they do something stupid and anti-consumer. Like what the Xbone did. Fortunately, Microsoft seems to be dialing it down.
The quote below perfectly illustrates my point for why the Wii U is dead.
I cannot picture a scenario where Nintendo convinces people that they want a Wii U this holiday. I mean, how could they? Right now, they have like, zero traction, and everyone is excited for the new consoles. Nintendo need more than just Mario 3D Land I think, and they don't have it.

Why is this kind of rhetoric being tolerated here? I see bans getting passed out in other threads for name calling and trolling. I may not agree with MS policies but I don't call the people who are buying an XBone deluded or ass-talkers... It's the Internet, everyone is over the top, lets not take things too seriously and start attacking each other over console war silliness.
Kageshinzo started it.
 
Yeah I'm well aware that developing on less powerful hardware takes less resources but categorizing them as "indie/arthouse" games sounds like you have no idea that while there is a gap it isn't that huge.
I think the jump is always four-fold per generation.

3DS I think is GC level power. Wii U is 360/PS3. That in itself means that you need something like 16x (although I could be wrong here in the maths) more resources to do Wii U development.
 
3DS I think is GC level power. Wii U is 360/PS3. That in itself means that you need something like 16x (although I could be wrong here in the maths) more resources to do Wii U development.

That's not how it works. I think I can fairly say that even when I'm not an expert. I think you should have to consider how much infastructures and middleware have gone forward since ten years ago.

I think you would be surprised how long 3DS games take to develop even with relatively big teams.
 
In fairness, Kageshinzo called Prankster's posts shit. Not defending the name calling but his reply wasn't unprovoked.

Well, if you read responses like this

Maybe you should look in the mirror, and then look at screenshots of GTA V, and then remind yourself that you're talking bollocks.

someone is bound to be blunt and call out his posts sooner or later. Today, that just happened to be me.
 
They need to get the price of this thing down. I looked into picking one up last week to play Zombie U and Wonderful 101 but the price isn't very attractive with the next gen consoles almost here. If it were £129 or £149 with a game bundle I'd jump on without thinking. But £250 with a remake of Zelda is lunacy. If MS and Sony drop the price of the 360 and PS3
this Christmas to just over the £100 mark I think the Wii U is done in the UK anyway. It has less shelf space in my local game shop than the PSP does. I don't recall seeing a demo station anywhere local either
 
That's not how it works. I think I can fairly say that even when I'm not an expert. I think you should have to consider how much infastructures and middleware have gone forward since ten years ago.

I think you would be surprised how long 3DS games take to develop even with relatively big teams.
Point taken. But the 3DS's "meagre" power and significantly larger instal base (in comparison) make it a far more attractive proposition for Nintendo to make risky projects, or even plough a lot of resources into a game.

I think Wii U games can only be hurt because Nintendo will cut back on things like asset creation as the instal base won't be there.

I could be really wrong about the Wii U, and things might pick up after a price drop, but Nintendo actually lose money per console sold, and will only stand to lose more in future.
 
kingofpopcorn1.gif
 
The Wi U is shit. You're just a deluded fanboy talking out of his ass. And Nintendo stand to make far more money by opening up their games to a larger market (albeit giving a cut to Sony/MS/Valve).

Skylanders proves that cutesy games do sell (in vast numbers) on mainstream consoles. The Wii U is not mainstream, and nothing that will ever come out on Wii U will ever attain mass market penetration.

Tomb Raider sold 3 million copies in FOUR WEEKS and was a disappointment. There aren't even 3 million ACTIVE Wii U systems on the market. The Wii U is also not even going to have the same worldwide penetration rate as the Dreamcast - especially now that the world has set its eyes on the PS4/XBone.

What makes you even think that Nintendo are going to be able to profit on their games, when there is no hope in hell that their games will ever be able to rack up the necessary sales to even approach Tomb Raider levels? Plus, Nintendo lose money on their Wii U hardware.

Your argument comes off as inane. Sony and Microsoft have a very hospitable third party publishing strategy. Nintendo can (and will be given the leeway) to delay their games if necessary. And the PS4/XBone/PC architecture is a far cry from the convulated hardware that the PS2 and Saturn had.

Here's a thought for you to maybe try to comprehend: you ever looked at UPlay or Origin? People don't have to spend a penny to get that to play the latest Ubisoft / EA game. And yet they still complain, because they want the game to be under the Steam umbrella. Even indie developers who get good reviews for their games struggle to sell them if the games aren't on Steam. Sure, these devevelopers don't have to pay Valve a cut if they sell the game via their own portal, but they still lose out as people aren't prepared to have to go through that extra hassle of having to acquire the said game.

What makes you think that the mainstream will pick up a Wii U / Nintendo console, when they already have a mainstream console? And what makes you think that people will be prepared to pay for this service, when Uplay and Origin have shown how hard it is for people to want to switch over.

I see Nintendo as being the equivalent of that indie developer who isn't on Steam. Sure, they get to keep all the money, and release games at their convenience. But Nintendo is missing out, and they only have themselves to blame for their pathetic sales figures.

There is a saying: when you do something, do it well, otherwise don't do it all.

Nintendo don't do consoles well. For them to continue down this path is not only a waste of their time (and a drain on their resources), but on their audiences as well. Hell, they can't even make extra money from the license fees as no-one wants to touch them.

So yes, the Wii U is shit. And your pathetic putdown looks like the sad bickering of a deluded fanboy who has got more money than sense. Shame the mainstream doesn't share your point of view, as that probably explains why Nintendo has only accrued 3 million sales to date. Oh wait: things will pick up next year, I hear you say? Keep dreaming.

Edit: I've already mentioned that one way Nintendo could carry on in the hardware stakes is by paving the way to a 3DS successor, and releasing a portable Wii U that is 2DS compatible.

But some people will probably think that's a dumb idea. But whatever. It's not as if HD development doesn't cost a tonne of money. And it's not as if marketing also doesn't cost a tonne of money. Asset creation is expensive, hence why we got a HD update. If anyone cares about Nintendo games, to the extent that they don't want the games to be compromised, they would need to think how best Nintendo can go about selling a lot of copies in order for their software division to remain profitable. Because Nintendo (from a mainstream console perspective) are finished. The stakes are only going to get higher.

How are you even still here? Get off your fucking high horse. Did Nintendo shit in your Cap'n Crunch or something?

This holiday has some great titles coming. I'm really looking to playing a new Mario with my wife and buddies.

That said, I'm more excited for the newer consoles coming next month and am likely to only pick up Mario in the forseeable future(3+ Mos.)

Unless Oddworld:New n' Tasty comes soon, which I'll buy immediately. Which, they need to announce a release date.
 
Point taken. But the 3DS's "meagre" power and significantly larger instal base (in comparison) make it a far more attractive proposition for Nintendo to make risky projects, or even plough a lot of resources into a game.

I think Wii U games can only be hurt because Nintendo will cut back on things like asset creation as the instal base won't be there.

I could be really wrong about the Wii U, and things might pick up after a price drop, but Nintendo actually lose money per console sold, and will only stand to lose more in future.

Look at this and tell me what you see. Well let me state it here: in the history of Nintendo handhelds they have always outsold their home console counterparts by a significant margin. They have always been much simpler to develop to too (3DS is the first handheld to actually have a wide range of 3D games from Nintendo on a handheld, DS had fewer). This isn't a new or unexpected situation for Nintendo. You could say that they will drop Wii U development anyway because it is doing that horribly but what would that make Nintendo? Everytime they announce a new hardware you would have to evaluate whether it's worth it just because Nintendo dropped Wii U and might do it with the new hardware too. It's the same with publishers (fewer now but still the few that support you shouldn't let down) and especially indies supporting Wii U. In other words it would massively hurt Nintendo's public image causing long-term losses way past Wii U's failure to sell.

About assets: Nintendo is already sharing assets between 3DS and Wii U and this will only get more significant as we go on. They even unified their handheld and home console departments to make sharing assets easier. Finally I would like to mention how Nintendo has been expanding their development studios. Crowding 3DS with games from all of them could mean cannabilization between your own software and making it very hard for 3rd parties to find breathing room on 3DS. Nintendo still makes a good amount of money as the platform owner from 3rd party games on their platforms.

Nintendo can afford to take losses on Wii U but they absolutely can't afford to cut it short. It might not have as long life as Wii did but they won't stop supporting it after titles they have announced now have been released.
 
You'd think he'd be a bit more tactful about this, then.
I did actually send a PM to Kageshinzo. I apologised in my PM, asked if we could put our differences aside, learn to tolearate each other like adults, and maybe one day learn to become internet friends.

I just looked at my PM outbox and the message isn't showing. I either think that's because the forum is slow, or I can't send messages.

But yeah: Kageshinzo... I apologise man. I hope we get to put aside our differences, learn to respect each others opinions, and maybe become friends in future.

I'm sorry for reacting the way I did...
 
Look at this and tell me what you see. Well let me state it here: in the history of Nintendo handhelds they have always outsold their home console counterparts by a significant margin. They have always been much simpler to develop to too (3DS is the first handheld to actually have a wide range of 3D games from Nintendo on a handheld, DS had fewer). This isn't a new or unexpected situation for Nintendo. You could say that they will drop Wii U development anyway because it is doing that horribly but what would that make Nintendo? Everytime they announce a new hardware you would have to evaluate whether it's worth it just because Nintendo dropped Wii U and might do it with the new hardware too. It's the same with publishers (fewer now but still the few that support you shouldn't let down) and especially indies supporting Wii U. In other words it would massively hurt Nintendo's public image causing long-term losses way past Wii U's failure to sell.

About assets: Nintendo is already sharing assets between 3DS and Wii U and this will only get more significant as we go on. They even unified their handheld and home console departments to make sharing assets easier. Finally I would like to mention how Nintendo has been expanding their development studios. Crowding 3DS with games from all of them could mean cannabilization between your own software and making it very hard for 3rd parties to find breathing room on 3DS. Nintendo still makes a good amount of money as the platform owner from 3rd party games on their platforms.

Nintendo can afford to take losses on Wii U but they absolutely can't afford to cut it short. It might not have as long life as Wii did but they won't stop supporting it after titles they have announced now have been released.
Which is why I said that the next Nintendo "handheld" might be a portable Wii U mini that is capable of being hooked up to the TV. That way, you unify the handheld and console market by having the Wii U mini play Wii U games and be 2DS backwardly compatible. Kill two birds with one stone.

It could happen. And there's no shame either...

Edit: even you argue that the hardware divisions have been unified. Which means that the next machine has to be a "one size fits all" type.
 
I did actually send a PM to Kageshinzo. I apologised in my PM, asked if we could put our differences aside, learn to tolearate each other like adults, and maybe one day learn to become internet friends.

I just looked at my PM outbox and the message isn't showing. I either think that's because the forum is slow, or I can't send messages.

But yeah: Kageshinzo... I apologise man. I hope we get to put aside our differences, learn to respect each others opinions, and maybe become friends in future.

I'm sorry for reacting the way I did...

No problem. I edited my reply to your post acknowledging your apology before this.
 
Tomb Raider sold 3 million copies in FOUR WEEKS and was a disappointment.

....

Sony and Microsoft have a very hospitable third party publishing strategy.

I just found these two sentences to be somewhat interesting in their contrast. Whilst I don't want to misquote them too much out of context, it is strange that both MS/Sony can have what is a "very hospitable" third party strategy (not disputing that) and yet at the same time, games can be expensive commercial failures if they fail to sell 4 million units in that environment.

I cannot for the life of me see things get any safer from an economic perspective if new machines have more expensive development budgets. To top it off, they also won't have a potential audience of "150 million" people to try and sell them to.
 
You could say that they will drop Wii U development anyway because it is doing that horribly but what would that make Nintendo? Everytime they announce a new hardware you would have to evaluate whether it's worth it just because Nintendo dropped Wii U and might do it with the new hardware too. It's the same with publishers (fewer now but still the few that support you shouldn't let down) and especially indies supporting Wii U. In other words it would massively hurt Nintendo's public image causing long-term losses way past Wii U's failure to sell.

This is basically why Nintendo will, in most probability, coast through this whole 8th generation even if the Wii U will have dismal sales throughout its lifetime. They would rather take losses than have consumers lose confidence in them as a brand if they pull the plug on a console way before its normal lifetime. I personally believe this is a big factor to Saturn's low sales; they had Sega CD and the 32X and then pulled the plug on those when the Saturn came out. I would imagine there were a lot of burned Sega CD and 32X owners then.
 
This is basically why Nintendo will, in most probability, coast through this whole 8th generation even if the Wii U will have dismal sales throughout its lifetime. They would rather take losses than have consumers lose confidence in them as a brand if they pull the plug on a console way before its normal lifetime. I personally believe this is a big factor to Saturn's low sales; they had Sega CD and the 32X and then pulled the plug on those when the Saturn came out. I would imagine there were a lot of burned Sega CD and 32X owners then.
True, but Nintendo have a history of "dropping" support when things have become unbearable - from a financial/sales perspective. Or even of not fully supporting the project after a certain time... The Virtual Boy and Snes "CD" (whatever that thing was in Japan) both testify to this.

Edit: if it's any consolation, I intend to buy a 3DS soon. I only recently bought a Vita (because it was cheap), but want a 3DS because of Zelda and MK7.
 
True, but Nintendo have a history of "dropping" support when things have become unbearable - from a financial/sales perspective. Or even of not fully supporting the project after a certain time... The Virtual Boy and Snes "CD" (whatever that thing was in Japan) both testify to this.

Virtual Boy was its own kind of monster. SNES CD was never even released.
 
True, but Nintendo have a history of "dropping" support when things have become unbearable - from a financial/sales perspective. Or even of not fully supporting the project after a certain time... The Virtual Boy and Snes "CD" (whatever that thing was in Japan) both testify to this.

Edit: if it's any consolation, I intend to buy a 3DS soon. I only recently bought a Vita (because it was cheap), but want a 3DS because of Zelda and MK7.

They didn't market the Virtual Boy as a main system and the successor of the SNES though. If I recall it right, they already announced the N64 then (as Ultra 64) so the VB is basically a side project. If I had my old magazines at hand I'd trawl through it to make sure but I distinctly remember Sega saying that the 32X-SCD combo will be a good substitute for people who want the "next generation" 32-bit experience but can't afford a Saturn.

The Wii U, on the other hand, is Nintendo's main console for the 8th generation. They can't afford to backtrack on it without damaging their image. Maybe they'll update it in a year or two from now kinda like what they did with the Wii and maybe make it more powerful, but they'll have to market it as a Wii U still. They'll have to keep up that confidence in their product.
 
Just because people are excited for the new consoles doesnt mean
that those same people will right away buy those consoles.

I dont see those new consoles as a threat to Nintendo and Nintendo is not a
threat to them. It is quite apparent that given time, people have no problem
buying more than one console.

I do think that there are enough games for the WiiU to validate a purchase
this holiday season for many people. So, whether people like it or not, there
will be a boost in WiiU sales. WiiU will add to its 3+ million user base worldwide.
 
Just because people are excited for the new consoles doesnt mean
that those same people will right away buy those consoles.

I dont see those new consoles as a threat to Nintendo and Nintendo is not a
threat to them. It is quite apparent that given time, people have no problem
buying more than one console.

I do think that there are enough games for the WiiU to validate a purchase
this holiday season for many people. So, whether people like it or not, there
will be a boost in WiiU sales. WiiU will add to its 3+ million user base worldwide.

Who is saying there won't be a boost in Wii U sales? It's the holidays. The only game that's actually relevant at retail this holiday is 3D World.
 
Nintendo needs to promote these deals and bundles like hell if they want to see success. A couple of TV ads isn't going to cut it.
 
Who is saying there won't be a boost in Wii U sales? It's the holidays. The only game that's actually relevant at retail this holiday is 3D World.

Yeah for average Gaffer. For everyone else you might as well add Wii Fit U, Wii Party U and Mario & Sonic at Olympics. One of the previous being a smash hit is improbable but I wouldn't go calling them irrelevant either.
 
Yeah for average Gaffer. For everyone else you might as well add Wii Fit U, Wii Party U and Mario & Sonic at Olympics. One of the previous being a smash hit is improbable but I wouldn't go calling them irrelevant either.

Is Wii Fit U still releasing at retail this holiday, but it certainly will be interesting to see if any of these party games have any pull.
 
Which is why I said that the next Nintendo "handheld" might be a portable Wii U mini that is capable of being hooked up to the TV. That way, you unify the handheld and console market by having the Wii U mini play Wii U games and be 2DS backwardly compatible. Kill two birds with one stone.

It could happen. And there's no shame either...

Edit: even you argue that the hardware divisions have been unified. Which means that the next machine has to be a "one size fits all" type.

I don't see them making a Wii U portable. Their handhelds have always been distinct from their consoles, and with the Wii U being supposedly difficult to develop for, I don't think they'd want to bring that difficulty into the handheld space. I think they can ride the 3DS wave for several years yet to come since it's making them so much $$.

Honestly I think it goes back to the demographic that Nintendo skews towards. Most people (not GAF, not enthusiasts, but the casual consumer) think of the Nintendo brand as the kiddie-appropriate brand. Handhelds are quite often purchased for kiddos (not saying adults don't play them, my wife has one, just that they are frequently purchased for kids). When looking at a PSP or Vita versus a Nintendo DS, I think parents are going to err toward the DS, which makes the "but the games have better graphics/are bigger/are console ports on the Vita" argument largely irrelevant.

In the console sphere however, the demographic is teens on up through 20 and 30-something gamers. And of course there are plenty of over 40 gamers. But at any rate that demographic tends to err toward the more mature content. Some may not agree with teens accessing rated M games, but we all know that they do and many parents don't mind. So in that demographic, MS and Sony trump Nintendo's consoles. Which is why Nintendo has (for years) lagged behind in console units sold, apart from the Wii.

The Wii was an aberration. It's the reason we had Kinect and Move, and it's the reason Kinect 2.0 and the PS4 Eye are coming. Is that a good thing? I dunno. I find it very odd that Nintendo is responsible for making this big splash in motion gaming, then with their next console they abandoned that for touchpad gaming (2nd screen, whatever), and left MS and Sony to their motion gaming scheming.

At any rate, I don't see Nintendo making their portable hardware match their console hardware. It's better for them to keep development costs on the portable low to keep profits high, since big-budget games aren't necessary to move portable units within the bulk of their primary demographic.
 
Just because people are excited for the new consoles doesnt mean
that those same people will right away buy those consoles.

I dont see those new consoles as a threat to Nintendo and Nintendo is not a
threat to them. It is quite apparent that given time, people have no problem
buying more than one console.

I do think that there are enough games for the WiiU to validate a purchase
this holiday season for many people. So, whether people like it or not, there
will be a boost in WiiU sales. WiiU will add to its 3+ million user base worldwide.


Not a single person believes that there wont be a holiday boost in Wii U sales, there will be boost in sales for everything. Its the very nature of holidays. Consumers spend far more money during this time than any other time in the calendar.

The question is not whether sales will rise, the question is: how much will they rise and a far bigger question is, will it drop right back to 5-8k in Japan weekly, 30-40k in US monthly after the holidays over. The Wii U needs to stabilize with far bigger numbers to even catch the GameCube.

If the Wii U goes back to where its at now, then you can safely say that 2013 holidays was not a breakout time for the Wii U. And if it does not happen now, it likely never will. Which is why there is immense pressure on Nintendo and in particular 3D World to change things.
 
Not a single person believes that there wont be a holiday boost in Wii U sales, there will be boost in sales for everything. Its the very nature of holidays. Consumers spend far more money during this time than any other time in the calendar.

The question is not whether sales will rise, the question is: how much will they rise and a far bigger question is, will it drop right back to 5-8k in Japan weekly, 30-40k in US monthly after the holidays over. The Wii U needs to stabilize with far bigger numbers to even catch the GameCube.

If the Wii U goes back to where its at now, then you can safely say that 2013 holidays was not a breakout time for the Wii U. And if it does not happen now, it likely never will. Which is why there is immense pressure on Nintendo and in particular 3D World to change things.

This 100%. Holidays are a terrible indicator of long-term success of consumer electronics. People spend stupid money around the holidays, then reality and credit card payments kick in come Jan/Feb and they pull those reigns back tight again. Wii U needs to start selling a LOT more consoles next year after all the big titles are out alongside M3DW to have any consideration as having broken out of its slump.
 
The thing is even if Wii U starts to pick up pace this holiday and continue that momentum, there's still the question of getting third parties to actually develop for it, whether by multiplatform ports or original ones. There's the danger that the stigma will already have done irreparable damage to the Wii U's image.
 
The thing is even if Wii U starts to pick up pace this holiday and continue that momentum, there's still the question of getting third parties to actually develop for it, whether by multiplatform ports or original ones. There's the danger that the stigma will already have done irreparable damage to the Wii U's image.
Rayman Legends and Zelda WW prove that it takes 6 months to make a port. Original games take 2+ years.

Even if the XBone/PS4 fail (highly unlikely), the Wii U still faces competition from (and is losing against) the PS360.

Unless by some miracle developers start supporting Wii U soon, it's highly unlikely things will pick before middle of next year (from the perspective of a third party's game being on store shelves), and by then it might really be too late.

Despite how the DC fared, which wasn't bad in a lot of ways, it still never managed to have the support of EA. People can argue about this all they want, but FIFA sells bucketloads.

We also are seeing games like Final Fantasy skip out on Wii U, as well as franchises like PES.

It will take a lot of convincing from Nintendo for third parties to even consider developing for its console.

Plus... GTA V.
 
Top Bottom