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[Trey]

Are the animals becoming a problem now?

I wouldn't say a problem. There is a diverse animal ecosystem in Africa, but it's just corny to me that people will dress up as an elephant or a dark person when they think of African theme. There's a very rich culture to be explored, and given her apparent appreciation of said culture, I just wondered how authentic she tried to make it.

Obviously they could have. But they didn't. The general image of Africa is that of black people living there. Yes, there are cities in Afrika that are just as modern as EU or US cities. Dressing up as black guy in a suit isn't really a theme I would like for a party.
Those people are having fun in their own way. It's selfish to give them a checklist of guidelines they have to oblidge to in order to 'not offend people'.

Cultural appropriation is pretty offensive when it's not accurately portrayed or respected. Black face aside.

She says she wants to go Africa to teach english. I wonder if she'll go to one of the metropolitan areas where the black guys are in suits and not Scar's pelt.

 

[Kiraly]

I think more people know about the KKK then what Blackface means.

This is definitely true, I'd say all of the adult population knows about the KKK while barely anyone could tell me what Blackface is.

I don't see why some of you can't seem to grasp that. But these type of posts will be skipped and not answered to.

Plus, you all must be so fun at themed parties - jesus!

 

[deli2000]

No. Blackface is Blackface. The End.

 

[marrec]

Plus, you all must be so fun at themed parties - jesus!

I wouldn't want to associate with someone who's idea of an African themed party is to let people show up in Blackface.

 

[Trey]

This is definitely true, I'd say all of the adult population knows about the KKK while barely anyone could tell me what Blackface is.

I don't see why some of you can't seem to grasp that. But these type of posts will be skipped and not answered to.

Plus, you all must be so fun at themed parties - jesus!

They are being grasped, and answered! Ignorance is not an excuse. These parties can be thrown - people are free to do so - they'll just be side-eyed by other people who are wise to their shtick.

 

[Goku]

Cultural appropriation is pretty offensive when it's not accurately portrayed or respected. Black face aside.

She says she wants to go Africa to teach english. I wonder if she'll go to one of the metropolitan areas where the black guys are in suits and not Scar's pelt.

It's a birthyday party. They shouldn't have to worry about "accurately portraying" a culture just to not offend other people. I can already image them sitting in a meeting discussing about measures to be as culturaly accurate as possible.
"There are too many people dressed as elephants, not cool!"
"Africa also has guys in suits, we should dress guys in suits"

Bottom line is, they don't have to prove anything or apologise to anyone. The KKK guy might also ne there ironically in a "funny" way.

Edit: The underlined sentence is worded terribly and I am geniounly sorry for offending anyone, not my intention. That said, I won't delete it so that people can laugh at my stupidity.

 

[The Adder]

I never claimed it wasn't misguided. But that is also a lot more known to be offensive.

Love this. "It's fine to dress up as a caricature of black people, just a little 'misguided', but everyone knows asian caricatures are offensive! "

 

[Arjen]

This is definitely true, I'd say all of the adult population knows about the KKK while barely anyone could tell me what Blackface is.

I don't see why some of you can't seem to grasp that. But these type of posts will be skipped and not answered to.

Plus, you all must be so fun at themed parties - jesus!

I've tried to explain and argue that the concept of Blackface isn't well known outside the US in a whole lot of threads. Most of the time, the answer is.
You're racist, Blackface is Blackface. The End.

 

[J.ceaz]

It's a birthyday party. They shouldn't have to worry about "accurately portraying" a culture just to not offend other people. I can already image them sitting in a meeting discussing about measures to be as culturaly accurate as possible.
"There are too many people dressed as elephants, not cool!"
"Africa also has guys in suits, we should dress guys in suits"

Bottom line is, they don't have to prove anything or apologise to anyone. The KKK guy might also ne there ironically in a "funny" way.

KKK


funny


This thread is killing me.

 

[Takuan]

It's just a bit of ignorant fun.

 

[besada]

Bottom line is, they don't have to prove anything or apologise to anyone.

No, they don't. And no one has to believe their protestations that they aren't racist, either.

 

[The Adder]

I've tried to explain and argue that the concept of Blackface isn't well known outside the US in a whole lot of threads. Most of the time, the answer is.
You're racist, Blackface is Blackface. The End.

Want to dress up as a character/historical figure who is black? I don't paint myself white to dress up as Superman or Lincoln.

Need to portray someone black in theatre or o n stage? Get a black person.

There is never any good reason for it.

 

[shanshan310]

Oh good, another fling shit at Australia thread. Some of the costumes look tasteless but let's not pretend this is an "Australians are racist" problem :/ Wasn't there another thread on a similar party in the US?

to be fair this is australia, a nation whose watershed moment was being featured in a simpsons episode

ooooh burn.

 

[Stet]

Racist at its worst, orientalist at its best, Australia at its average point.

 

[Jedeye Sniv]

Want to dress up as a character/historical figure who is black? I don't paint myself white to dress up as Superman or Lincoln.

And this is why you will never win 'best costume'

 

[Goku]

Want to dress up as a character/historical figure who is black? I don't paint myself white to dress up as Superman or Lincoln.

Need to portray someone black in theatre or o n stage? Get a black person.

There is never any good reason for it.

Nobody would even care if you did, let alone think it was racist.

 

[marrec]

And this is why you will never win 'best costume'

Black Lincoln seems like a good costume idea.

 

[Jedeye Sniv]

Black Lincoln seems like a good costume idea.

Not as good as white Lincoln portrayed by a black guy. It has layers.

 

[The Adder]

Nobody would even care if you did, let alone think it was racist.

And yet I don't. Because Superman and Lincoln aren't skin colors. They are a character and a person. Skin color is the last thing anyone thinks of or uses to describe them. The fact that you feel the need to do so when portraying someone black is what's racist, the whole history of blackface is just icing on that shit cake.

 

[Arjen]

Want to dress up as a character/historical figure who is black? I don't paint myself white to dress up as Superman or Lincoln.

Need to portray someone black in theatre or o n stage? Get a black person.

There is never any good reason for it.

So if I would like to dress up as Samuel l Jackson in pulp fiction for Halloween (one of my favorite movie characters) I'd be racist?

 

[Irminsul]

Need to portray someone black in theatre or o n stage? Get a black person.

Haha, you really seem to know much about ethnic diversity in some regions outside the US.

 

[marrec]

Not as good as white Lincoln portrayed by a black guy. It has layers.

White Lincoln as portrayed by a white guy in blackface in whiteface.

Literal layers.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

I dont think the make up is necessary.

 

[The Adder]

So if I would like to dress up as Samuel l Jackson in pulp fiction for Halloween (one of my favorite movie characters) I'd be racist?

Dress up as Jules and don't paint yourself black, no.

 

[saelz8]

Guy in the KKK uniform explains everything, doesn't it? It would be like having a Jewish themed wedding, then having a guy dress in a SS uniform.

Oh, it's not racist, just good fun. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt, right? They don't deserve your benefit of the doubt, since they've done fuck-all to earn it.

 

[The Adder]

Haha, you really seem to know much about ethnic diversity in some regions outside the US.

If you've got black people, you've got aspiring black actors. If you don't have black people the US has plenty of young black actors willing to fly out and do the work.

 

[Goku]

So if I would like to dress up as Samuel l Jackson in pulp fiction for Halloween (one of my favorite movie characters) I'd be racist?

Apparantly, only if you paint your face..

 

[shanshan310]

I have a question. Is "blackface" just the act of painting your face with shoe polish and making big red lips? Or is it just any attempt to use make up to make your skin darker?

For example, I saw this play recently that was set in the US (please don't laugh at the horrible accents, I was cringing the whole time): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfmtHDm1D2U&noredirect=1
Would the actor in that be doing "black face", and be considered a racist? I honestly didn't see anything wrong with it at the time, but from the responses here I'm curious if something like that would be offensive in the US.

 

[Baby Milo]

literally people defending an "African" themed party with blackface and KKK costumes

this is goddamn hopeless

welcome to GAF

 

[marrec]

I have a question. Is "blackface" just the act of painting your face with shoe polish and making big red lips? Or is it just any attempt to use make up to make your skin darker?

For example, I saw this play recently that was set in the US (please don't laugh at the horrible accents, I was cringing the whole time): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfmtHDm1D2U&noredirect=1
Would the actor in that be doing "black face", and be considered a racist? I honestly didn't see anything wrong with it at the time, but from the responses here I'm curious if something like that would be offensive in the US.

Due to the history of what is considered 'blackface' in the US, any non satirical attempt to darken a persons skin in attempt to make them look black would be considered offensive. Especially because black actors already have a hard time getting cast in non-stereotypical roles, for them to lose any role to a white actor painted black would be extremely offensive unless it was specific to the story you were trying to tell.

 

[Jado]

Do you get offended when African-Americans make films that mock Whites with the use of painting their faces White. White face ok because only Whites can be racist according to you.

Whiteface is about as offensive as greenface, in that neither have a long history tied to systemic racism and oppression. Blackface is literally alone in having a fucked up history of mocking an entire group of people in the worst way possible.

Nobody would even care if you did, let alone think it was racist.

See above.

I very much doubt she thought "hey, lets have a racist party". I don't think there was any malicious intent, and I don't think darkening your skin instantly makes you a racist. Probably a poor choice of theme, but that's about it.

Racism through sheer ignorance is a thing. There's this mainstream misunderstanding that you're either a good person or an evil Nazi/KKK member. I believe this girl's party was fairly racist through her own immense ignorance of the "country of Africa."

To be honest, I'm more bothered by her awful justifications; saying that she has no ill will against Africans because she wants to go there and teach them English, more or less revealing that she thinks Africans aren't civilized/educated until someone like her treks across the world to bring knowledge into their wilderness. If I made offensive remarks about the French, it makes no sense to pull some absolutely shit defense about wanting go to France and educating them in my language and customs! Comments from the article articulating my meaning:

This is like the weirdest white savior thing I've read in a while. I mean, obviously they aren't educated until they can speak English, right?

Given that a large number of African countries were british colonies and still adhere to the British school structure, I'd hazard a guess that many people could teach her a few things about the language.

As someone who has worked in Africa (Rwanda specifically, because Africa is a big, non-homogenous continent) for a long time, I actually don't want her to go to Africa. Too many privileged white people use Africa and Africans as a path to self-discovery and people get hurt because of it. She's clearly too ignorant to be trusted to check her privilege, and would only be teaching English to bolster her own career or make herself feel better about "helping" all the poor, victimized Africans. She's no better that Mindy Budgor. Keep them out. Go watch "The Kardashians," kid.

100% agree. I went to Africa (Kenya, specifically) on vacation because my (black) Kenyan friends invited me to come with them. I spent weeks before I left studying enough Kiswahili to have basic conversations (and my friends taught me phrases from their tribal languages) and other than some Russian tourists in Mombasa I could barely understand, I don't remember talking to any other white people over the weeks I was there. The main impression I came away with from my trip? Kenyans love tourists and tourist money but they could really do without all the white people trying to rescue them.

YES. I'm so tired of white people going to some unspecified place in Africa and "finding themselves" or "finally understanding hardship" and treating the people who live there like scenery.

 

[SUPREME1]

Do you get offended when African-Americans make films that mock Whites with the use of painting their faces White. White face ok because only Whites can be racist according to you.

*sees name*


Smh.

 

[Arjen]

Dress up as Jules and don't paint yourself black, no.

Okay, I get that with the history of blackface it would be really frowned upon. But is there a point where context starts to matter? Like I want do display the character as accurately as possible because I'm such a huge fan.

 

[Slayven]

Want to dress up as a character/historical figure who is black? I don't paint myself white to dress up as Superman or Lincoln.

Need to portray someone black in theatre or o n stage? Get a black person.

There is never any good reason for it.

Yes that is what I don't get By doing blackface you are saying that the person's only and defining treat is that they are black.

 

[Pryce]

Did not a single person say "Hey, maybe this is not a good idea"?

 

[wsippel]

Even if you don't know what blackface is, the act of painting ones face to look like another race is inherently ignorant and racist. Like doing the chinese eyes thing in a picture. You're making a caricature of someone else's identity.

Yeah, that's complete nonsense. You essentially say that any form of acting is ignorant and wrong.

 

[Whiteshirt]

I have a question. Is "blackface" just the act of painting your face with shoe polish and making big red lips? Or is it just any attempt to use make up to make your skin darker?

For example, I saw this play recently that was set in the US (please don't laugh at the horrible accents, I was cringing the whole time): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfmtHDm1D2U&noredirect=1
Would the actor in that be doing "black face", and be considered a racist? I honestly didn't see anything wrong with it at the time, but from the responses here I'm curious if something like that would be offensive in the US.

Painting your face black is not racist. Blackface as an act of cultural appropriation is racist. This was the whole problem with minstrel shows in the Unitied States (speaking of which, in the 60s and 70s, you could watch some on TV in Victoria).

If you have an intentional plan to entertain/shock/whatever a group of people by "acting black" and use said black people as a cultural prop, then yes you are being racist. It would be like me going to a party dressed as an Asian with my eyes taped.

Yeah, that's complete nonsense. You essentially say that any form of acting is ignorant and wrong.

Acting is not wrong. The act of cultural appropriation for the sole purpose of shock or entertainment is racist.

Of course, there is context to this whole thing but the people dressed as they are at this party are indefensible. At the very best, it is utterly ignorant and tasteless.

 

[Goku]

Whiteface is about as offensive as greenface, in that neither have a long history tied to systemic racism and oppression. Blackface is literally alone in having a fucked up history of mocking an entire group of people in the worst way possible.



See above.
:

I don't agree. Painting your face black today doesn't have the same meaning or intention it had decades ago. Therefor I don't agree with not painting my face because it used to be evil. I want to be able to paint my face without people thunking I'm a racist or have racist intentions, How I would do that I don't know because I'm colored myself, but still I want to be able to.

 

[Irminsul]

Yes that is what I don't get By doing blackface you are saying that the person's only and defining treat is that they are black.

I don't get that. At all.

First of all, why does darkening the skin suddenly mean that the skin colour is the only important feature of the person? It's just one feature, probably not very important, but it's certainly there, so you use it. Why should you act like it isn't there?

That leads to my second point: If you want to portray someone, using physical features is one of the best things you can do to convey your surrounding what you're representing. A rather short white man with a funny hat in early 19th century clothing? That's probably Napoleon. See, another physical feature (height) is used as a pretty clear indicator of the person. No one would ever suggest Napoleon was reduced to his shortness, it's just one practical hint for the audience. It's also not the only feature used, just one of them.

Are all physical features off limits to you (height, weight, gender, hair colour, skin colour, a pronounced nose, whatever) or is skin colour the only one? If all other features don't reduce the character to these features themselves, why does skin colour?

 

[marrec]

I want to be able to paint my face without people thunking I'm a racist or have racist intentions,

Too bad.

What the hell?!

Paging @neogafshitposts

 

[bjb]

I don't agree. Painting your face black today doesn't have the same meaning or intention it had decades ago. Therefor I don't agree with not painting my face because it used to be evil. I want to be able to paint my face without people thunking I'm a racist or have racist intentions, How I would do that I don't know because I'm colored myself, but still I want to be able to.

What the hell?!

 

[poppabk]

Whiteface is about as offensive as greenface, in that neither have a long history tied to systemic racism and oppression. Blackface is literally alone in having a fucked up history of mocking an entire group of people in the worst way possible.

So if darkening your skin does not have a long history of being tied to systemic racism and oppression, as it apparently does not for Australians, then it is not offensive to them. Right?

 

[shanshan310]

Due to the history of what is considered 'blackface' in the US, any non satirical attempt to darken a persons skin in attempt to make them look black would be considered offensive. Especially because black actors already have a hard time getting cast in non-stereotypical roles, for them to lose any role to a white actor painted black would be extremely offensive unless it was specific to the story you were trying to tell.

Ah I see. Makes sense, I guess the circumstances are quite different. We have quite a lot of aboriginal actors, and it would probably not be okay to dress up as a caricature or for no good reason, as you say, but most African actors I've seen have been American or African immigrants or more often than not visitors there for just the performance. Different circumstances I suppose. Thanks.

 

[SecretSphere]

Blackface is Blackface. Blackface is racist. No matter who does it no matter where it's done. That's all I want people to understand.

What if black people have blackface? (picture is a Zwarte Piet at Curacao). Just wondering if this is considered racist.

And some dancing Zwarte Pieten/Black Petes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ogYpuO95SI

 

[The Adder]

Okay, I get that with the history of blackface it would be really frowned upon. But is there a point where context starts to matter? Like I want do display the character as accurately as possible because I'm such a huge fan.

The thing is that this isn't, as far as I see it at least, about blackface. It's about people distilling characters, people, and entire cultures down to a superficial feature or two.

Jules chose his occupation. He created his speech pattern. He picked his weapon of choice. And he decide on his facial hair and gerry curl.

Jules didn't choose his skin color.

The problem with this whole thing is that it values skin color over anything else as an indicator. It devalues tge person, people, or peoples you are portraying.

Someone with a note perfect Jules costume who had the portrayal down pat? That impresses me. Someone painted brown in a suit does not.

 

[wsippel]

Acting is not wrong. The act of cultural appropriation for the sole purpose of shock is racist.

Except that's rarely the purpose, and almost never the sole purpose. If you are white and want to play a black character, you paint your face black. And vice versa. Is a male actor playing a female character (or the other way around) sexist?

I already asked this on the last page, but nobody wanted to answer: If three white guys want to depict the three wise men, one of which, Balthazar, is black, what are they supposed to do? Make Balthazar white? Leave him out? Or have one of the actors paint his face black? Most people not blinded by the rampant political correctness nonsense would probably conclude that the third option is the most accurate and only respectful one.

Also, I don't know if that play is common in the US, but if it is, do you always have an Iranian, an Indian and an Arab play those three roles? Because, according to the logic of some PC hardliners in this thread, anything else would be racist.

 

[Forever]

Nothing surprises me coming out of Australia anymore. It's like the Deep South of the world.

 

[Whiteshirt]

Whiteface is about as offensive as greenface, in that neither have a long history tied to systemic racism and oppression. Blackface is literally alone in having a fucked up history of mocking an entire group of people in the worst way possible

How so, the history of blackface isn't the sole reason why it is offensive. It is offensive for far more basic reasons, namely you are literally taking another culture and using it as a prop for whatever reason. It is the reason why minstrel shows died as they were seen as a vehicle to push negative racial/cultural stereotypes across the United States because it was literally "white people" taking what they thought of black culture and running with it.

If the purpose of whiteface is the same, then yes it is offensive.

Except that's rarely the purpose, and almost never the sole purpose. If you are white and want to play a black character, you paint your face black. And vice versa. Is a male actor playing a female character (or the other way around) sexist?

I already asked this on the last page, but nobody wanted to answer: If three white guys want to depict the three wise men, one of which, Balthazar, is black, what are they supposed to do? Make Balthazar white? Leave him out? Or have one of the actors paint his face black? Most people not blinded by the rampant political correctness nonsense would probably conclude that the third option is the most accurate and only respectful one.

Also, I don't know if that play is common in the US, but if it is, do you always have an Iranian, an Indian and an Arab play those three roles? Because, according to the logic of some PC hardliners in this thread, anything else would be racist.

Depends why the male actor is playing as a female.

If three white guys want to depict the three wise men, then no it is not racist as the defining trait of the story has nothing to do with race. Blackface and whiteface are often racist because the main defining feature has to do with race and culture and often the proliferation of negative stereotypes. If it wasn't a serious defining feature, you wouldn't bother with the detail.

The story of the birth of Jesus does not change even if you have three women play the three wise men, although you might have people yell at you for being unauthentic.

 

[marrec]

Nothing surprises me coming out of Australia anymore. It's like the Deep South of the world.

I think it should be pointed out that ignorance isn't specific to a certain region or country. This could have easily happened in America.

 

[GrizzNKev]

I am thoroughly convinced you can tell how stupid someone is by looking at their face.