its on my list, but a bit out of what i'd like to spend. maybe black friday deals?
the input lag is pretty insane on that, isnt it?
Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
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its on my list, but a bit out of what i'd like to spend. maybe black friday deals?
the input lag is pretty insane on that, isnt it?
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
There will be no BF deals for the w900
Some people notice it but honestly I don't and I have played on the W900. I'm sure if I filmed the input I could see it but for me personally I can't. I was also gaming on a 9 year old 1080p Sharp Aquos before and never noticed lag so that might have something to do with it.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Nice. This is my recent pickup. Samsung PS64F8500 replacing a Samsung PS64E550.
Nice to you as well. Enjoy your purchase. Samsung would definitely be the best for the lightning in that room.
Breaking in my display progress: 6/100 hours.
This is going to take forever lol.
AngryChinchilla
Member
Ordered a 55" ST60 for a pretty decent deal (about $1200 after tax and $110 back in reward points). It might go cheaper before they sell out, but I am not willing to risk it. It will be our living room tv with a light amount of gaming. The 50" Pioneer in my man cave will still continue to see most of the action, but I am glad to finally be upgrading my 40" Sony XBR2
2 month update on my 60" samsung f8000 - could not be happier with my choice. The picture is just stunning, black levels are phenomenal, colors are out of this world, the brightness can be just nuclear, the feature-set is amazing and the input lag is negligible (online data is pre-firmware update).
I had a f8500 plasma briefly (I cancelled the order but they sent it anyways) which I also really liked the few days I had it but my tv just spends too much time paused or in some game menu for my own peace of mind regarding burn-in and image retention. Also, both screens were about equally reflective but I spend a lot of time watching sports in bright, daylight hours and the light output for the f8000 just blew the f8500 (by far the brightest plasma) out of the water. For controlled light critical viewing the f8500 was ever so slightly superior but I just spend more time gaming and watching sports with lights on everywhere (or sunlight streaming in) to make that very marginal improvement worth it. I considered the Sharp matte screens but those just compromised the black level too much for my comfort (the tvs also fell short in too many other ways to make it worth it).
If I was looking 55" I'd have considered the Sony 900 but with the Evo upgrade path on the Samsung I'd probably have gone that direction anyways.
I had a f8500 plasma briefly (I cancelled the order but they sent it anyways) which I also really liked the few days I had it but my tv just spends too much time paused or in some game menu for my own peace of mind regarding burn-in and image retention. Also, both screens were about equally reflective but I spend a lot of time watching sports in bright, daylight hours and the light output for the f8000 just blew the f8500 (by far the brightest plasma) out of the water. For controlled light critical viewing the f8500 was ever so slightly superior but I just spend more time gaming and watching sports with lights on everywhere (or sunlight streaming in) to make that very marginal improvement worth it. I considered the Sharp matte screens but those just compromised the black level too much for my comfort (the tvs also fell short in too many other ways to make it worth it).
If I was looking 55" I'd have considered the Sony 900 but with the Evo upgrade path on the Samsung I'd probably have gone that direction anyways.
I'm no expert, but if you want a budget TV with minimum input lag and thin bezel, and don't care about 3D, I don't think you can find many better than Sony's W6 42" (HDTVtest review). You might have to stretch your budget slightly, though. Or you could get the 32", but that apparently has higher, though still low, input lag.
Got the 50" (W656) myself a few weeks back and, apart from strong horizontal banding (think that's what it's called?) across the top of the display, I couldn't be happier. (Decided not to get a replacement, as it's just a one cm wide line that shows up lighter under certain lighting conditions and the uniformity of the rest of the screen is great.) Input lag feels non-existent and the motion blur looks "cleaner" than on my five year old Samsung (less artifact-y? smear-y? I dunno
). The Led Motion option to improve motion resolution is worthless, though, as it introduces very distracting ghosting and darkens the image way too much (tested with Rayman Origins).
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
I have disabled it on every TV/Display/Input I've encountered. I figure if I have to turn sharpness up to get an acceptable picture then something else inside the display isn't adjusted correctly. Yes, it has it's uses, especially for video, but I'm a rebel.
The goal is to get an exact replica of the frame buffer to the display so "usually" that involves 0 sharpness.
Thanks Wowbagger, you always come through for me since the UC2MP daysI'm no expert, but if you want a budget TV with minimum input lag and thin bezel, and don't care about 3D, I don't think you can find many better than Sony's W6 42" (HDTVtest review). You might have to stretch your budget slightly, though. Or you could get the 32", but that apparently has higher, though still low, input lag.
Got the 50" (W656) myself a few weeks back and, apart from strong horizontal banding (think that's what it's called?) across the top of the display, I couldn't be happier. (Decided not to get a replacement, as it's just a one cm wide line that shows up lighter under certain lighting conditions and the uniformity of the rest of the screen is great.) Input lag feels non-existent and the motion blur looks "cleaner" than on my five year old Samsung (less artifact-y? smear-y? I dunno
I actually looked around between yesterday and today, and it comes down to a choice between this year's 32" Sony W6 and 32" Samsung 5000. Both are under 500 and roughly the same size as our current 26", thanks to thinner bezels, which is key for my wife. I know 1080p is a bit wasteful at this size... I'm worried about the panel lottery on the Samsung, which I could avoid by going with the Sony, even though it's 100 more expensive. Both are highly recommended by HDTVTest, too. Any other opinions?
Ivan
Member
I'd like to hear about Sony 42W6...
Reviews are great, but I see some people complaining about it not being bright enough even in moderately lit rooms. Sometimes people forget to turn off the light sensor, but I'd like to hear more about its brightness if there are owners here.
I don't need a blinding tv, but this scared me a bit...
Thanx.
Reviews are great, but I see some people complaining about it not being bright enough even in moderately lit rooms. Sometimes people forget to turn off the light sensor, but I'd like to hear more about its brightness if there are owners here.
I don't need a blinding tv, but this scared me a bit...
Thanx.
hu not bright enough? I think i adjusted the brightness down actually. The tv is fantastic - only thing i don´t like is its 50hz only panel and that i should have picked up something bigger than 42"
Ivan
Member
If we talk about gaming only, does 50hz matter?
I would turn off motion flow for gaming anyway.
Would 100hz native panel with motion flow turned off perform better?
The Xtortionist
Member
Anyone know if the S60 can take a Dolby Digital 5.1 signal from HDMI and output the same signal from optical?
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
8 Hours in to Breaking in my Plasma.
Got a long way to go lol. I work long work shifts and would love to do it then, but if the TV restarts I'd be fucked. I've had a couple of times where my old tv would restart while watching and I think it was the electricity, so I'm not going to take the chances.
Got a long way to go lol. I work long work shifts and would love to do it then, but if the TV restarts I'd be fucked. I've had a couple of times where my old tv would restart while watching and I think it was the electricity, so I'm not going to take the chances.
EekumBokum
Member
So what is the general consensus on the best led/lcd tv under $1000? I've been looking at the sony w802a, and it has fantastic input lag, but how good is the picture quality on the set?
Probably not its not so much an issue for games - more for movies or sports. If you have no problem with the 24p stuttering when watching blurays for example and don´t watch sports a lot its not a problem at all. And the fact that sony themselves uses this tv to show off the ps4 all the time shows that its awesome.
Oh also - it has no motion flow. Don´t get tricked by sonys way of describing this tv. They say it has but it doesn´t. It only has some strange unusable fake motionflow mode.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
I was in Best Buy and they had the ST60 running and it looks a lot better than my W900.
Instant buyers remorse.
Sent the w900 back got the ST60. Price diff is just the icing on the cake.
Couldn't be happier.
Crappy compared to the newer LCD's and really bad compared to Plasma but if your dead set on a LCD set and don't watch a lot of movies its probably fine.
That's why I'm glad I didn't end up listening to the Internet naysayers about the ST60 and input lag. There was a moment I was debating either spending an extra grand on the W900 or VT60, or downgrading to a S60 but I didn't and have zero complaints about input lag. It does not affect me personally and the picture quality is absolutely stunning.
EekumBokum
Member
Hmm. Well, I was thinking about the 50 inch S60, but I tend to leave the TV paused on static images very often, so I'm afraid of image retention in this case. What newer LCD's under $1000 would you guys recommend? I'm looking for at least a 46" TV, but not willing to go above 50". I also don't mind spending a few extra hundred if need be.
Tizoc
Member
Via
http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/
The W900 Sony LED TV has 19 ms input lag, whereas the ST60 apparently has more input lag?
The best Sony LED TVs atm are KDL-55W802A, KDL-65W850A, & KDL-65S990A.
Sony 50W6? very good value for money, great low input lag and a relatively matte screen compared to the likes of the W900. Ultimate picture quality might not be there vs the W900 if you like using things like motionflow for TV etc (W6 doesn't have motionflow even though it says so on the box)
For the vast majority of modern displays, it's best to set the sharpness to very low or off (regardless of it being HDMI, component, etc.). Even on a lower sharpness setting, TVs can still produce or enhance artifacts such as ringing (white halos around everything), shimmering objects, and jaggies. That said, some displays will blur or smear the image when set too low, but those TVs are the exception, not the norm. Sharpness at zero is usually best.
More specifically, sharpness should be set to a neutral setting so that it's not creating artifacts like haloing, and also not blurring the picture. That setting varies by model. On my Sony W900 the neutral setting is 50, on my previous Samsung I believe it was 0.
I doubt you will find many (if any) 60" TVs for under a grand that could be considered "best". I would think that you would end up with way too many compromises to get under that price point at that size. Unless you can find a killer Black Friday or Boxing Day type sale I guess.
You would be much better off getting a nicer 46"-55" set at your budget, IMO.
If I wanted a smaller size I would ask for that. I already own a 50" plasma which is why I'm asking for suggestions for "best" for that price and size.
pyrealnova
Member
My new Panny S60 arrived yesterday. Haven't done any gaming yet, but the picture looks fantastic (I'm using CNET's recommended settings). I was watched part of The Hobbit on HBO and the colors, clarity, blacks, all looked fantastic. Coming from a 720p Samsung LCD it didn't take much to impress me. My girlfriend and I are both very happy with the choice.
My one gripe, which I knew going into the purchase, is the reflective panel. I have some big windows in my living room and there are clear reflections on the screen during daytime use. Gonna have to invest in some blackout blinds or curtains.
My one gripe, which I knew going into the purchase, is the reflective panel. I have some big windows in my living room and there are clear reflections on the screen during daytime use. Gonna have to invest in some blackout blinds or curtains.
I took a quick look at Best Buy (Canada) and they don't have a single 60" LED set for less than $1000, the cheapest one was about $1200 and it is a Samsung on sale down from $1600. I honestly don't think you will find a 60" for less than a grand that is worth owning, particularly if are coming from a plasma, unless it is a big sale like Black Friday.
TheSinkingKnight
Member
Getting a 60 inch Panasonic s60 next week. Woot! The past week, since PS4 HDMI to DVI on my TV only does 480p, I've been playing in 480p about half of the time (when I didn't take my PS4 to the other TV that is).
Fun Factor
Formerly FTWer
Did you calibrate the Sony W900a?
The reviews after calibration for both sets have these numbers to them
The lower the number for black levels, the better.
The higher the number for peak white, the better
Panasonic TC-P60 ST60
black level 0.0018 ftL
peak white 33.01 ftL
Sony KDL-55 W900A
Standard LED Dynamic black level 0.0010 ft-L.
Standard LED Dynamic White 36.6 ftL
Seems the Sony has better contrast, white levels are brighter & darker black levels than the ST60.
FallingEdge
Member
suggestions for calibration settings? Just on CNET or avsforums?
Whats the black level on a VT? .004 or something?
ProjectGemini07
Banned
Panny exiting the plasma business, coupled with my new PS4, got me off the upgrade fence.
65" S60 being delivered next Friday. Upgrading from a 2006 50" Panny 768p plasma.
65" S60 being delivered next Friday. Upgrading from a 2006 50" Panny 768p plasma.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
I used CNET's settings and then several I found on AVS. Unless I was doing something really wrong it just didn't touch the Panny especially in the blacks. User impressions on avsforums seems to be bearing the same thing out. Its awesome for a LCD but doesn't touch the Plasma.
ProjectGemini07
Banned
.002 as measured by CNET.
Fun Factor
Formerly FTWer
I checked a few reviews & a few different ones reviewing the same sets, that showed numbers of some Panasonics & wrote them down ina notepad, this is what I got (only one of the measured them in cd/m2 & not in ftL)
Code:
Panasonic 50 VT60
Black level 0.00? cd/m2 (their equipment couldn't measure it)
Brightness 114 cd/m2
Panasonic TC-P60 ST60
black level 0.0018 ftL
peak white 33.01 ftL
Panasonic TC-P65 VT50
black level 0.0020 ft-L
peak white 32.33 ft-L.
Panasonic VT50
Black level 0.0030 ftL
Panasonic TC-P55 ST50
black level 0.0040 ft-L.
peak white level 28.28edit:
1 ftL = 3.4 c/mr²
Numbers don't lie, in a pitch dark room, the W900a should only be second to the VT60.
Of course you can lower & increase backlight on a LCD which dramatically changes the black levels.
Haint
Member
That W900 value is full field black or near full field black so the back light can be dimmed to virtually nothing. With actual real world content, it isn't going to be anywhere near 0.001fL. I like Cnet's reviews a lot, but they've got to start posting ANSI checkerboard or similar pattern readings, cause what you're posting is in no way representative of actual performance.
Pffffft. The f8000s are right on line with the w900 and you can get them bigger than 55". In fact, film based video processing for the f8000s are one of the areas where it has a small edge (while occasionally just falling slightly short in other areas). We're talking very small differences across the board in all areas between these tvs. Upgrading processors/inputs each year on the Samsung if needed sealed the deal for me even though I was looking for something bigger than 55".
This isn't really accurate. The Sony dims the blacks to that level but it's only for certain scenes which are basically all or near enough all black. In real world circumstances the black level is going to be far less deep than the Panasonic.
Yeah using full-field black is just a trick reviewers use to get the numbers closer to the high end plasmas. The w900 and f8000 are both great with blacks but don't match up to a vt/zt when it comes to something like a checkerboard pattern. They are, however, superior to many cheaper plasmas which is why it is untrue to state that "plasmas have better blacks than LEDs". Some plasmas have better blacks than some LEDs.
Codeblew
Member
I am looking at the w900 and not looking to go plasma. Since I assume you did a lot of research before purchasing it, do you think it is the best LED TV for gaming? I would be willing to spend less money if I wasn't giving up too many features. I will use it mostly for gaming and media streaming. I rarely watch blue rays and instead stream from Netflix, Hulu, Youtube and PSN. Sometimes I even buy the SD version on PSN to save a buck. heh. I care most about gaming gfx quality.