IHaveCandy
Banned
You're discounting my argument based on my lack of proven expertise and lack of personal experience, not my argument itself.
3 White college students file racial discrimination complaint against professor
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You're discounting my argument based on my lack of proven expertise and lack of personal experience, not my argument itself.
The Incarnation
Member
I need you to take a step back and understand that even if the person who were responding to is a horrible and unabashed racist, the use of that phrase would not be legitimate evidence toward such a label.
It sounds to me that she mentions this topic every single class. Just like how my grade 10 English teacher ALWAYS rattled on about the holocaust, made us watch Schindler's List, etc... Always having discussions about it.
He eventually got fired for calling a German kid a Nazi in-class.
He eventually got fired for calling a German kid a Nazi in-class.
FairXchange
Member
A review dating back to 2007 for Gibney, from rate my professor, states:
I don't know, as a student myself, that doesn't sound like a great learning environment. If I signed up for English, it really isn't asking too much to be given a direct and focused curriculum on English studies. There are a plethora of courses at many schools (including mine) that focus on structural racism, ethnic diversity, multiculturalism, many of which I have taken and enjoyed.
I'm discounting you talking about white Americans in a local minority. I've been a white person in a local minority and dating was tougher than it should have been. Obviously white people aren't the only people capable of discrimination or prejudice. But I don't think it's really a robust analogy.
But hey I don't really want to have a fight with you, I feel you on "I don't think black people can be so easily grouped together as a single culture." I think that's a good point and that not all people with black skin would feel welcome on blackpeoplemeet.
MilesWebber
Member
White people enslaved the africans. White people slaughtered the native americans..OMG WE KNOW can we stop hearing about it! It's embarrassing you guys. srsly.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Dallas.
The Incarnation
Member
Like Smokey Dave said, I've only ever seen it used towards black people. Difference is I'm not going to give the benefit of the doubt.
Especially if I've seen them use the phrase more than once in a similar circumstances.
I remember ThisWreckage lad freaking out over some spike lee twitter in the trayvon Martin thread of all places. Nevermind some poor kid who got shot dead.
The lad is all about finding blame elsewhere. I pity people who feel the need to defend a race, certainly when it's just a few individuals involved.
If I was to sum this thread up it would be about a sloppy teacher, and over-sensitive students. And that's it. However race is a big thing in some places, and you make it what it is.
I've heard it used often, and mostly within the context of describing a black person, and especially a black person who is well to do or "above his station." For me, it carries the same connotations as "uppity." But I only base that on how it's been used in my experiences with the word.
EDIT: I used to call people "dinks" all the time when I was younger, because I thought it just meant "stupid person," then, when I was older, I learned that it was a racial slur.
jim-jam bongs
Member
As it's now beginning to look like this teacher is kind of a jerk, I'd like to preemptively remind people that she can still be entirely correct about the nature of privilege in the US in spite of that, lest her character be used as ammunition in the ongoing discussion.
AlimNassor
Banned
I refuse to comment.
I'm not having guilt. I just don't see any way to feel pride for my skin color. not after the shit we've done and still do.
Necromanti
Member
I think this situation is representative of the general failing when it comes to the teaching of racism. Some people see statements about their group and their position of power and immediately take it as a insult against them as an individual due to them being unable to differentiate between the two. It's the same sort of tribalism that one sees in nationalism.
That is what gives rise to terms like "white guilt", making these individuals believe that their group--and in turn, themselves--are being made to feel guilty for being born into that group. When no care is taken to work around that flaw of the human psychology, we get conflicts borne out of miscommunication. "White guilt" is a misunderstanding at its core because it does not exist.
What they don't realize is that the level of the individual is ignored when racism is discussed. So whether the professor in question directly targeted those students, I do not know, but I doubt it.
That is what gives rise to terms like "white guilt", making these individuals believe that their group--and in turn, themselves--are being made to feel guilty for being born into that group. When no care is taken to work around that flaw of the human psychology, we get conflicts borne out of miscommunication. "White guilt" is a misunderstanding at its core because it does not exist.
What they don't realize is that the level of the individual is ignored when racism is discussed. So whether the professor in question directly targeted those students, I do not know, but I doubt it.
Deified Data
Banned
This seems arbitrary.
I think we've got a real lack of geographic parity on this one; mind me asking where you are from?
It might need some nuance but I don't see the problem with my statement.
Reverse racism doesn't exist. There is only racism, plain and simple. I will agree though, that statement is inflammatory/prejudice/possibly racist. This thread is painful.
Well put. Structural racism in journalism (or english departments) could be rather serious. There has been some discussion about this topic in higher academia in general. The weight of the issue demands equally weighty research, not anecdotal accounts or unsupported blanket statements. I hope future teachers present a spectrum of such research and let students come to their own conclusions. Or if they lack the training necessary to professionally present the material, not to discuss the subject at length in a classroom setting.
I think anyone dismissing the idea that someone can be born into more privileged positions is stupid.
But I agree with posters here and thread in the past here ( the military one comes to mind) it is also how you tailor the message to your audience.
Sometimes what you say can sound as if it some gross over-generalization.
But I agree with posters here and thread in the past here ( the military one comes to mind) it is also how you tailor the message to your audience.
Sometimes what you say can sound as if it some gross over-generalization.
I'm from the US. Born in Los Angeles, and raised in Milwaukee, WI (before moving to Los Angeles in my early 20's, where I still live).
Milwaukee has a predominantly white population, followed next by black, and then Puerto Rican. Growing up, I've often heard the terms "uppity," and "chip on their shoulder," in relation to black people, often said by older white people.
I don't really think there's a conflict of geography, as America is a really huge place, and each state is almost like a different country when it comes to cultures sometimes. Hell, just look at the classic "East Coast," "West Coast" disparity. Different parts of America have very different subcultures. In your part, for example, "chip on his/her shoulder" could have a totally different meaning than some other part of the country.
RoninChaos
Member
There's still something that rubbed me the wrong way when her reply was "I definitely feel like I'm a target in the class. I don't feel like students respect me," she continued. "Those students were trying to undermine my authority from the get-go. And I told the lawyer at the investigatory meeting, 'You have helped those three white male students succeed in undermining my authority as one of the few remaining black female professors here."". Anybody else? She seems to think she's being disrespected due to her color, rather than how she approached the class.
I've honestly never heard the phrase "chip on shoulder" used in a racial way before and I'm black. Learn something new everyday I guess. Uppity though, yeah that's a fucking trigger word there.
Read up, your ignorance does not make something so. Some excerpts:
This is the first article that popped up, it deals with the term in the context of football, but the broad notion applies.
Race and Cultural Identity: Playing the Race Game Inside Football
The power of white coaches and managers to shape black players' behaviours can be illustrated more explicitly through the notion of the ‘chip on the shoulder’. This phrase has become a racialized test of black players' abilities to integrate into the cultures of football. The idea of the ‘chip on the shoulder’ has often been used to describe people who have ‘problems’ with authority. It was interesting to look at how this idea of the ‘chip on the shoulder’ is used in relation to black players who came into the English game during the 1980s and 1990s. I talked to a black player of this period about his experience of how the term was used:
If you speak to white coaches they don't know how to speak to a … black player. They would say they have a ‘chip on their shoulder’. When I first started at QPR (Queens Park Rangers), there were a couple of black lads and I would often hear the Youth Development officer say, I don't know why they have got a ‘chip on the shoulder’. We did have this white goalkeeper who had this same attitude as this black fellow. I used to say why hasn't he got a ‘chip on his shoulder’? And they used to say he's all-right he just takes it hard. So why does he take it hard, and why has he got a ‘chip on his shoulder’? (Les Frank, interview 1998)
The use of this term becomes rigidly fixed in the white imagination of white coaches in relation to black players. Black players then become vulnerable to a term that leads to an inherent question mark about their ability to ‘assimilate’ into the English game. The notion of the ‘chip on the shoulder’ thus become a means by which black players are judged in relation to their ability to adapt to these implicit judgments that subtly infiltrates the self-perception of black players and leaves them open to being constructed in a variety of ways dependent on the quality of their relationships with their white male counterparts.
Thats just one example, here are countless journal articles that cite the issue
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=0&q="chip+on+your+shoulder"+racism&hl=en&as_sdt=0,33
I dunno if this is serious.
Man I feel entirely out of the loop, neither of these terms are used as racial things around me.
That would in fact indicate a conflict of geography.
It's odd in that there seems to be some consensus as to it having ties to racism in the UK, but certainly not the U.S. as a whole, which is why I thought it would be interesting to see if there were any obvious indicators from certain parts of the country versus others. I appreciate your insight in to the demographics and use cases from people where you live.
For my part, I used it last week at work in reference to Justin Bieber.
Its not a geographic thing. Look:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q="chip+on+your+shoulder"+racism&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0,33
http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=1033506
Yeah I'm siding with the students on this one. Using that class as a soapbox, like I stated earlier in the thread.
Yeah I'm siding with the students on this one. Using that class as a soapbox, like I stated earlier in the thread.
Deified Data
Banned
I just don't see the harm in racial/ethnic pride of any kind so long as it isn't coupled with racist leanings. It may not be my cup of tea but it doesn't bother me, either.
That's a good way of putting it. Gonna steal that if you don't mind (or even if you do
).Well I'm American, grew up in the Chicago area, for what's worth. Never knew "chip on shoulder" as anything but a phrase.
AbsolutBro
Member
Every race, every skin color, every group has committed horrible atrocities at one point or another over the history of humanity. If you yourself did not take part, there is no reason to shoulder the shame. Sort of the opposite of taking pride in a local sports team doing well, when you yourself are neither on the team, nor affiliated in any way at all.
Deified Data
Banned
Agreed. Most embarrassing thread in a while.
Byakuya769
Member
Most of her reviews are positive and her reviews get better over time. Yeah, side with the students who don't even understand what "english" classes are for. My introductory english class at university was based entirely on similar themes, and led by a young, white graduate student. The theme didn't matter, the critical analysis and writing ability did.
Necromanti
Member
It's common for professors to adopt a certain theme for their English classes that is evident throughout the syllabus. I've seen some focus on the Civil War, and others on the discrimination against Native Americans, so I mean, I don't see anything wrong with it. That's usually mentioned in the class description. If people are uncomfortable with the topics that will be discussed, they don't have to take that section.
zero shift
Banned
This is one of my favorite studies. The most shocking part is how the peasant eye colors had their grades drop significantly while the Master (race) eye color had their grades increase significantly.
Best quote of the thread.
Yeah... Read the negative reviews and tell me you don't see the correlation. Same shit has been going on for years.
Yeah, I have to disagree here. White people have done some incredibly fucked up shit (specifically Western Europeans), but so has pretty much every racial group. Fifty million people were slaughtered by the Mongols, for example. Since the sixteenth century, white people have been responsible for more violence and oppression than other groups, but this hasn't always been the case. Western Europe didn't become the center of global geopolitics and civilization until the 19th century.
Nightstick11
Banned
I don't really want to comment too much on this because the situation wasn't very clear to me. The students and the professor have wildly differing views on both the nature of what happened as well as the atmosphere of the classroom.
I will just comment on the Ethnic Studies class that I attended in college, which was taught by maybe one of four or five African-American professors on campus.
I do not think her teaching methods were effective, and it definitely lead to defensiveness and resentment from both the white students and the Asian students.
She was pretty in-your-face and hostile towards the white students when discussing slavery and the Civil Rights movement. While some of the white students looked visibly upset and angry, others looked bored or apathetic.
When she started chewing out the Asian students, blaming their parents for the 1992 LA Riots (she insisted on calling this an uprising), all of them looked hyper-defensive and were definitely not considering her aggressive viewpoints.
There has to be a better way of teaching ethnic issues to students (which are very important issues that all American students need to learn) without being so in-your-face hostile and belligerent about it. The point is for the students to learn, not feel defensive and dismissive about the salient points being brought up.
I will just comment on the Ethnic Studies class that I attended in college, which was taught by maybe one of four or five African-American professors on campus.
I do not think her teaching methods were effective, and it definitely lead to defensiveness and resentment from both the white students and the Asian students.
She was pretty in-your-face and hostile towards the white students when discussing slavery and the Civil Rights movement. While some of the white students looked visibly upset and angry, others looked bored or apathetic.
When she started chewing out the Asian students, blaming their parents for the 1992 LA Riots (she insisted on calling this an uprising), all of them looked hyper-defensive and were definitely not considering her aggressive viewpoints.
There has to be a better way of teaching ethnic issues to students (which are very important issues that all American students need to learn) without being so in-your-face hostile and belligerent about it. The point is for the students to learn, not feel defensive and dismissive about the salient points being brought up.
Eastern Europeans why exactly?
These are terrible posts, and as someone who tries to have an enormous amount of sensitivity with regard to discrimination I have not experienced myself as well as someone interested in linguistics, being described as ignorant on this issue is pretty offensive. I assure you that "chip on the shoulder" is not universally known as a phrase with racial connotations.
You say that "it deals with the term in the context of football, but the broad notion applies." What I get from the article in question is, instead, that it might well carry that connotation more ubiquitously in the realm of football than everyday usage.
Second of all, your Google Scholar search is just for any publication that contains both the phrase "chip on your shoulder" and the word "racism." This will necessarily include uses of the phrase in racist contexts as well as, ironically, uses of the phrase in passing in any article that deals with racism. So far as I can tell, none of the writings on the first four pages of that search, including the one you chose to excerpt, deal with the idea of the phrase itself being inherently racist, and telling me that it is because there are examples of it being used in discriminatory ways is intellectually dishonest.
It may well not be solely geographical distinctions that characterize the use of the phase "a chip on one's shoulder" as racially tinged, but it is absolutely due to discrepancies in some form of regional, communal or subcultural linguistic usage that I was unfamiliar with any kind of history with its use a pejorative specific to black people.
It strikes me that urban dictionary, a sort of crowdsourced linguistic use-case repo, does not contain any mention of this; contrast its second definition of the word "uppity."
Byakuya769
Member
Yeah. She's black, and is interested in discussing racial dynamics as they relate to the topics she teaches. Some students don't like that. I'm not seeing how you make the leap to support these students from those past negative reviews, when they are fewer in number than positive ones and decreasing over time. Aren't negative views most likely to be loudly expressed on instructor evaluations?
Is there any evidence she did that? And how is it that educating white people about racism demonizes them? If you believe society shouldn't discriminate by color, then it's in everyone's best interest to understand systematic racism--white people included. The topic might not be relevant in most classes, but it's perfectly reasonable in a mass communication class.
Sorry, that was an error on my part. I meant to say "Western Europeans". With the exception of the last several centuries, the Slavic and Turkic peoples of Eastern Europe have generally been the victims of history.
Yeah and what is pointed out in those reviews is the same scenario here. This is a reoccurring thing. This leads me to believe this wasnt a one time deal but something perpetual throughout the class. If she is using it as a soapbox she needs to stop, thats not productive, especially for an essay writing class. Messy situation for sure.
Im sure shes a good professor but she shouldn't be using it as a soapbox
I do find it interesting of its usage in the UK, which I was unaware of.
As for the phrase itself, it's not a purely racial epithet. It's not like "nigger" or any other derogatory term for a race, that has a clear cut connotation, but it has been used that way. I don't find it inflammatory, like other phrases or words, but it did raise my eyebrow when I saw it used in this thread to describe the professor.
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