Metal Gear Solid V is having an identity crisis
- Thread starter Timeaisis
- Start date
Exclusive content did that for me.
Yeah.
Ground Zeroes is a mission based open world game. I don't even know what the means.
I think you're reading far too much into Ground Zeroes. It's just an intro section, probably intended to for a single mission (maybe two), that's been stripped out to simultaneously quell fan's thirst for the game while they wait and rake in money ASAP for Konami. It's probably way overpriced for what it is, and then stretched thin with odd 'side missions' to attempt to make up for it, when it probably really is the same mission over and over... because filler/padding, and the nature of a cash-grab demo.
It doesn't really get to me, though, because I see it for what it is, and the idea of a sneak-peak at that new FOX engine seems pretty cool. If I have a PS4 by March, I'll pick it up, otherwise, I'll wait for a MGS5 bundle (hopefully both games on the same disc, fully integrated into each other's stories).
Regarding the shift to open world vs MGS, I don't see it as a shift. MGS3 was a contiguous adventure, like MGS1 and MGS2 (sans tanker) before it, but it gave the illusion of actually infiltrating a base from the wilderness - it felt badass the first time through, but it's really just a series of linear corridors and tweaks on the old spy-frogger gameplay. Now, Kojima is attempting to give us that feeling legitimately, without the corridors, without the illusion. I'm totally down for this. We pretended to be Rambo getting into Groznyj Grad and getting out... but in MGS5, we will be Rambo. Just like MGS is the better-than-the-movie adaptation of Escape from LA, I have no doubt that MGS5 will be the most amazing Rambo 3 simulation ever conceived.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw5t45tEPWQ
That's what Phantom Pain will be. Mmmmmmm.
It doesn't really get to me, though, because I see it for what it is, and the idea of a sneak-peak at that new FOX engine seems pretty cool. If I have a PS4 by March, I'll pick it up, otherwise, I'll wait for a MGS5 bundle (hopefully both games on the same disc, fully integrated into each other's stories).
Regarding the shift to open world vs MGS, I don't see it as a shift. MGS3 was a contiguous adventure, like MGS1 and MGS2 (sans tanker) before it, but it gave the illusion of actually infiltrating a base from the wilderness - it felt badass the first time through, but it's really just a series of linear corridors and tweaks on the old spy-frogger gameplay. Now, Kojima is attempting to give us that feeling legitimately, without the corridors, without the illusion. I'm totally down for this. We pretended to be Rambo getting into Groznyj Grad and getting out... but in MGS5, we will be Rambo. Just like MGS is the better-than-the-movie adaptation of Escape from LA, I have no doubt that MGS5 will be the most amazing Rambo 3 simulation ever conceived.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw5t45tEPWQ
That's what Phantom Pain will be. Mmmmmmm.
You choose a mission, you get dropped in a big area ripe with tools and stuff, complete the mission.
See, I figured she was the
pretend to be in love with some nerd so he can take care of your wolves and then actually be in love with him before dying type
Exactly! That's my entire point. I don't think anyone does.
Then when the mission is over you get yanked back out to choose the next? I imagine that's how it'll turn out anyway. That's an awful way to handle open areas too.
Like Peace Walker where you could go on missions to recruit new members, I guess? Which is my least favorite Metal Gear.
Mission length could be any amount of time across gigantic or tiny areas. Anyone expecting Metal Gear Auto will probably be disappointed.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Thank you
The game is what MGS3 was trying to accomplish (with being drop 100 miles away from the base; drop -> jungle -> swamp -> infiltrate base), but couldn't due to the limitations of the hardware
rosaceadude2112
Member
phantom pain is a full on open world. ground zeroes is one large base that houses several missions.
ground zeroes + phantom pain = metal gear solid v, with gz acting as the opening chapter.
MGS3 was the last game Kojima made that I enjoyed, and even there I hated the awful writing and plot.
When I saw the trailer with the vocal track and all the character introductions and whatnot, I got really hyped, but since then my hype has just about completely disappeared.
Ground Zeroes seems like such a ripoff to me, and it will have to be pretty bloody good to convince me that Konami aren't just trying to make quick cash grab off of a starved fanbase.
When I saw the trailer with the vocal track and all the character introductions and whatnot, I got really hyped, but since then my hype has just about completely disappeared.
Ground Zeroes seems like such a ripoff to me, and it will have to be pretty bloody good to convince me that Konami aren't just trying to make quick cash grab off of a starved fanbase.
My concerns lie with what GZ is and the pricing of possibly little content. TPP will be a full game, so I'm not really concerned about it and it's still a few years off. GZ is three months off and we don't know what we're getting into. A 1-2 hour "prologue" is not worth 20$ or 40$. I think in total it might take up to 3 hours to do everything. Oh, not to mention Konami has its own head up its ass with GZ.
I think it's a big failing in communication what we see as open world and what they are using the term applied to the game to mean. They should never have used it.
phantom pain is seriously a full on open world?
GTA V legitimized the idea of Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain, for me.
Hopefully you'll be looking at building schematics, driving over to a base and surveying a day or two before scheduled infiltration, having reconnaissance teams giving you data on the best infiltration routes, or the number of guards at different times of day. All of your own accord, to make sure you aren't discovered, with the option of going in and shooting everyone for the impatient.
That person who wants to play without using the marking system would want to get a feel for enemy positions before committing to an infiltration of a base. Seeing if you can incapacitate the people in guard towers to bring your helicopter in closer, or seeing if there's a sewer system available. Perhaps securing a uniform, and dressing like a guard, or having one of the members of Outer Heaven doing that. Then getting inside, and having only the building schematics to guide you as you have a more familiar Metal Gear experience.
That's what I want from an open world stealth game. Not what Ground Zeroes if offering.
Hopefully you'll be looking at building schematics, driving over to a base and surveying a day or two before scheduled infiltration, having reconnaissance teams giving you data on the best infiltration routes, or the number of guards at different times of day. All of your own accord, to make sure you aren't discovered, with the option of going in and shooting everyone for the impatient.
That person who wants to play without using the marking system would want to get a feel for enemy positions before committing to an infiltration of a base. Seeing if you can incapacitate the people in guard towers to bring your helicopter in closer, or seeing if there's a sewer system available. Perhaps securing a uniform, and dressing like a guard, or having one of the members of Outer Heaven doing that. Then getting inside, and having only the building schematics to guide you as you have a more familiar Metal Gear experience.
That's what I want from an open world stealth game. Not what Ground Zeroes if offering.
I'm expecting something more like Peace Walker now, where it feels really cheaply made. An open area's not very open when you only experience one part of it for mission A then get yanked out and thrown back in for mission B in a different part. The ideal way to handle something like that would be to get objectives naturally as you explore the entire base.
Yeah but we were talking about GZ. I don't like anything that I've seen or heard about how they're handling GZ. At this point I'd rather see how phantom pain is going to be handled if it really is full open world.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
I see it as open sections.
Imagine the entirety of MGS3 was an open interconnected area from the first drop where Snake meets Eva to Grozny Grad to the final battle between the boss in the flower patch.
One big open section in a world.
That's what I picture when Kojima describes it.
But of course there will be sections like the hospital that are self contained areas that fit the narrative of the story.
SJRB
Gold Member
I hate everything that's going on with MGSV at the moment. It's needlessly confusing and annoying. I think the reason for all this concern is the questionable marketing and the extremely confusing communication from Kojima and his team.
- First the Ground Zeroes reveal, a new MGS is coming
- Then the VGA Phantom Pain reveal, introduces the official game title "Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
- What's the deal with Ground Zeroes then? First point of confusion arises
- Gameplay segment for Ground Zeroes is revealed as the first chapter of Phantom Pain [tutorial, ease the player into the new gameplay mechanics and open world]
- Joakim Mogren and all that nonsense that lead to nowhere
- E3, main focus on Phantom Pain
- Then Ground Zeroes is announced a standalone title [now called prologue instead of tutorial, hmm geez I wonder why]
- More gameplay footage from Ground Zeroes, all showing the same small area and all done in about 10 minutes, vague comments about actual game content or length.
- Kojima/Konami statement is made about how the success of Ground Zeroes determines the release date of Phantom Pain
- Platform-exclusive content gets announced
- Price point revealed, next-gen version is taxed an extra 10 bucks. Retail version an additional 10 bucks more, resulting in a 40 dollar/euro/pound price point for a next gen retail version of Ground Zeroes. People start getting annoyed because nobody knows how long Ground Zeroes is
The bottom line is that when you introduce something as a first chapter/tutorial, then later try to sell it as a standalone game and put a 40 euro price tag on it, you have to be prepared to answer some questions, like "is this thing really worth 40 bucks".
- First the Ground Zeroes reveal, a new MGS is coming
- Then the VGA Phantom Pain reveal, introduces the official game title "Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
- What's the deal with Ground Zeroes then? First point of confusion arises
- Gameplay segment for Ground Zeroes is revealed as the first chapter of Phantom Pain [tutorial, ease the player into the new gameplay mechanics and open world]
- Joakim Mogren and all that nonsense that lead to nowhere
- E3, main focus on Phantom Pain
- Then Ground Zeroes is announced a standalone title [now called prologue instead of tutorial, hmm geez I wonder why]
- More gameplay footage from Ground Zeroes, all showing the same small area and all done in about 10 minutes, vague comments about actual game content or length.
- Kojima/Konami statement is made about how the success of Ground Zeroes determines the release date of Phantom Pain
- Platform-exclusive content gets announced
- Price point revealed, next-gen version is taxed an extra 10 bucks. Retail version an additional 10 bucks more, resulting in a 40 dollar/euro/pound price point for a next gen retail version of Ground Zeroes. People start getting annoyed because nobody knows how long Ground Zeroes is
The bottom line is that when you introduce something as a first chapter/tutorial, then later try to sell it as a standalone game and put a 40 euro price tag on it, you have to be prepared to answer some questions, like "is this thing really worth 40 bucks".
kittoo
Cretinously credulous
Oh it was. So much so that I didnt even watch the final cutscene fully! My God it was just going on and on and on! lol.
For all we know Phantom Pain has an average mission length of 3 hours, and there could be 6 total missions, with each mission taking place in a different area entirely. There could be 10 missions with an average length of 40 minutes, its impossible to say how well Kojima productions has implemented open areas and mission/objective design at this point.
Also remember missions may have multiple objectives, side objectives, bonuses for doing things, penalties for doing or not doing things.
funkystudent
Member
Dead Rising 2 Case Zero was only $5 or something wasnt it?
Its crazy Konami think they can charge 40
Its crazy Konami think they can charge 40
wuxian fengguang
Neo Member
I don't want to sound patronizing, but Quiet's character design finally made me realize I've grown out of Metal Gear's target audience.
chaostrophy
Member
For a certain type of fan though, MGS games have massive replayability due to all the easter eggs, the ways to interact with NPCs and the game environment which are totally unique to the series. A release that's 1 hour of content to get though the mission as quickly as possible might be 5-10 hours for those of us who like to experiment and explore. Pricing is probably geared toward the latter group as the former might still feel ripped off even if it was a lot cheaper.
And behind the blatant sexuality, both of these characters had great backstories and interesting dialog.
Dragonborn
Member
It's the first MGS game I'm not hyped for so yea I agree. At least I'll always have MGS4 (and to a less extent Peace Walker). Sure, I hope Kojima blows us away, but I'm doubting that quite a bit, he seems to be focused on making the game more mainstream and appealing to a wider audience and overall I just have no idea what the heck is going on. Ditching Hayter didn't help one bit either.
correction.. Quiet has an identity crisis.
Is the just a slut, or into far out fashion trends, or an assassin, or a poster child for the future of female sexuality, or the product of an abusive father, or Kojima's wet dream?... who knows.
I love conspiracy theories.
correction.. Quiet has an identity crisis.
Is the just a slut, or into far out fashion trends, or an assassin, or a poster child for the future of female sexuality, or the product of an abusive father, or Kojima's wet dream?... who knows.
I wondered how many posts it would be before Quiet was paraded around for derision.
GZ has always been a separate game. Too much jumping to conclusion on the length of the game.
On the subject of Quiet, she's an Afghan girl who grew up in strictly Patriarchal society where females had to be covered up and hidden. So this is her reaction to growing up in that way. And despite her openness, she will be hidden and it's actually the victims of her sniper bullets that will be naked. Giving her the freedom she was denied growing up.
On the subject of Quiet, she's an Afghan girl who grew up in strictly Patriarchal society where females had to be covered up and hidden. So this is her reaction to growing up in that way. And despite her openness, she will be hidden and it's actually the victims of her sniper bullets that will be naked. Giving her the freedom she was denied growing up.
SJRB
Gold Member
Kojima stated there was a very good reason for her design and that everyone who yelled outrage would be ashamed when they found out.
My expectations have been in decline ever since the game was first announced. MGS is my favorite franchise, so it's sad to see the state that V's in.
* The dropping of David Hayter in favor of bringing in a Hollywood actor in order to connect and co-operate with Hollywood producers for a motion picture, is really shitty. As a fan, a film would be nice, but not at the expense by undermining the integrity of the game. Such a drastic decision has never happened before in the franchise, so it's sad to see that now. I rather have no movie and have Hayter stay. Konami wants to broaden the appeal however, so I can see why they made the decision. It was most likely a demand from the Hollywood producers.
* The shitty price model makes me cringe. Why split the game in 2 parts? I rather have a complete game with the standard price model, rather than two separate halves. Sure, I can see why it would make sense from a creative point of view (Boss being in a coma for 9 years represents the time between the releases of GZ and TPP), but that doesn't change the fact that the games are incomplete in their on right. I'd gladly take a delay if it meant that the game would come out in a complete shape, rather than two half game parts.
* Open world - I'm mixed on this. It works in some games, but i feel that it limits the environments that the story can take place in. Anyway, it's a minor complaint, since they're really flexing the Fox engine in this, so it's going to be nice in a way to.
* The lack of Yoji Shinkawa - What kind of tool decided to place a god awful picture of Boss as the box art, when you have Shinkawa. His art is truly unique, and makes up for a big part in the appeal of the franchise.
So those are some of the qualms I have with the game. Let's see how it will unfold in the end.
* The dropping of David Hayter in favor of bringing in a Hollywood actor in order to connect and co-operate with Hollywood producers for a motion picture, is really shitty. As a fan, a film would be nice, but not at the expense by undermining the integrity of the game. Such a drastic decision has never happened before in the franchise, so it's sad to see that now. I rather have no movie and have Hayter stay. Konami wants to broaden the appeal however, so I can see why they made the decision. It was most likely a demand from the Hollywood producers.
* The shitty price model makes me cringe. Why split the game in 2 parts? I rather have a complete game with the standard price model, rather than two separate halves. Sure, I can see why it would make sense from a creative point of view (Boss being in a coma for 9 years represents the time between the releases of GZ and TPP), but that doesn't change the fact that the games are incomplete in their on right. I'd gladly take a delay if it meant that the game would come out in a complete shape, rather than two half game parts.
* Open world - I'm mixed on this. It works in some games, but i feel that it limits the environments that the story can take place in. Anyway, it's a minor complaint, since they're really flexing the Fox engine in this, so it's going to be nice in a way to.
* The lack of Yoji Shinkawa - What kind of tool decided to place a god awful picture of Boss as the box art, when you have Shinkawa. His art is truly unique, and makes up for a big part in the appeal of the franchise.
So those are some of the qualms I have with the game. Let's see how it will unfold in the end.
Graphics Horse
Member
Both games will involve a mission select screen of sorts, not just GZ. PP's will obviously involve a few intro levels before opening up. They're making a PW style stricture, but with more substantial missions and scope.
Outside of the hospital escape weirdness, I've not seen much to surprise me, as they've been talking about open world since before GZ was revealed. But their PR could have done a better job at explaining what people were looking at in regards to GZ, as it was left for superfans to shout down anyone who dared to bring up the idea that it would be released separately.
Outside of the hospital escape weirdness, I've not seen much to surprise me, as they've been talking about open world since before GZ was revealed. But their PR could have done a better job at explaining what people were looking at in regards to GZ, as it was left for superfans to shout down anyone who dared to bring up the idea that it would be released separately.
Yes they're adopting peace walker mission select. Im not seeing the identity crisis. We knew this. Save that critique for if you play the game or we learn a lot more about it and it takes an odd direction. The game needed to be open world. Mgs4s structure of run to this chokepoint/corridor to advance to the next loading screen was antiquated back in 08, it sure as hell wouldnt fly now. It totally made the globetroting in that game less immersive, the game was too ambitious for its own good. I'd rather have been stuck in one sneaking location like shadow moses but on a bigger scale.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Don't forget one of the best female characters in video games
though that served a purpose
semiconscious
Member
a kojima game experiencing an identity crisis? if true, it just sounds like one more reason to buy to me 
...
...Killing_Joke
Member
I personally was not a fan of the PW structure. But it made sense for a handheld game. It also makes sense for GZ. But i'm hoping it's not going to be like this for TPP. It probably won't so i won't stress it. I wish the game will be traditional Metal Gear but i won't knock it till i try it.
Also replacing Hayter sucks. Won't be the same.
Also replacing Hayter sucks. Won't be the same.
Fuck. Dat.
I want to expand a base of operations. A HUB area that you return to at the end of every mission, and expands to become Outer Heaven. "Boss, the R&D team needs a new type of experimental suppressor. It's being developed by Cipher at Base F". You chose to get it, or not, like a wanted poster in Red Dead Redemption. And, if you chose to, you ride in your helicopter all the way there. Or drive. Your take your mini Metal Gear. Or whatever. And it'll probably be like this. The 24-hour clock in TPP seems to designed around this kind of gameplay.
When it comes to story missions, it would hopefully be vague. "Infiltrate here". You could have your reconnaissance team survey the area, and they'll give you a report. You could drive around the perimeter to get a feel for the infiltration routes, or watch the base at night and day from binoculars to see the least guarded areas. Or you could go in with a biggest gun you have, and mow people down.
It's all speculation, but a mission based format would be so contrary to the idea of an open-world stealth game.
Addendum:
The way I see it happening, you'll boot up TPP
and Snake will be waking up in the hospital. The following events serve as a tutorial to the game.
Miller
Please Kojima.
Exactly. The only thing you should be upset about is the fact that they are no charging you for the equivalent of the Tanker Mission. Like WTF? That just totally fucks with the flow of the game, I don't want to have to wait a year to pick up from where I left off from the maybe 1-2 hours of gameplay in GZ. Just give me them altogether, all at once like you know it was intended.
I cant believe how polarizing opinions on mgs4 are. Clearly it was a very context sensitive game that without a proper lens cant be enjoyed the same. When it came out we all cried in joy, gave it GOTY. Now it seems like the consensus is mgs 4 sux lol I dunt evn ynderstand teh stry.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Not just that but that he ditched him for star power that isn't needed or cared about.
I could have been open to switching to Solidus or BB's MGS4 voice.
Orniletter
Banned
...I must admit that I just saw some pictures of Splinter Cell: Blacklist in the WiiU screenshot thread...and thought to myself:
"Why are there MGS V screenshots in here!"
So...yeah :/
"Why are there MGS V screenshots in here!"
So...yeah :/
Be careful, there are a lot of assumptions you are making there, if not a few outright factually wrong statements.
I understand the limit of what we are allowed to publish isn't helping, but don't get too bent out of shape on things that have never been fully explained yet (e.g. Hayter, box art, story).