Quenelle, new nazi salute or just anti-establishment?
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ComputerMKII
Banned
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quenelle_(gesture)
It is done by idiots
It has become viral indeed
Calling it a nazi salute is absolutely ridiculous
It is done by idiots
It has become viral indeed
Calling it a nazi salute is absolutely ridiculous
That doesn't really explain what it is though.
OP: this article might shed a little light for you.
There's more at the link.
kurisu_1974
Banned
Attention seeking Jew hating Muslims use this as it recently was popularized by some retarded Arab stand-up comedian (who said it was meant anti-Zionist, not anti-Jew) but it has existed since the 1980s. The guy just wants attention and money if you ask me.
In essence, the Nazi salute is illegal in France (and most of Europe), so they created this as an alternative.
In essence, the Nazi salute is illegal in France (and most of Europe), so they created this as an alternative.
AuthenticM
Member
That does not resemble the nazi salute.
pseudocaesar
Member
when anelka did it I thought nothing of it. then I hear he's under investigation for a Nazi salute and I had to go and look up what it is and why.
he is a footballer fyi and did it as a goal celebration
he is a footballer fyi and did it as a goal celebration
kurisu_1974
Banned
He's also a muslim and the gesture is anti-Zionist.
(Not validating, just saying)
I love how people pick one thing out of a post, as if it invalidates all the rest.
Should have said muslim, I agree.
Here's an overview of his works:
On 14 June 2006, Dieudonné was sentenced to a penalty of 4,500 Euro for defamation after having called a prominent Jewish television presenter a "secret donor of the child-murdering Israeli army".[87]
On 15 November 2007, an appellate court sentenced him to a 5,000 Euro fine because he had characterized "the Jews" as "slave traders" after being attacked in le Théâtre de la Main d'Or.[88]
On 26 June 2008, he was sentenced in the highest judicial instance to a 7,000 Euro fine for his characterization of Holocaust commemorations as "memorial pornography".[37]
On 27 February 2009, he was fined 75,000 Canadian dollars in Montreal for defamatory statements against the singer and actor Patrick Bruel after he called him a "liar" and an "Israeli soldier".[89]
On 26 March 2009, Dieudonné was fined a total of 3,000 Euros for defamation after having criticised Elisabeth Schemla, a Jewish journalist who ran the now defunct Proche-Orient.Info website. He declared on 31 May 2005 that the website wanted to "eradicate Dieudonné from the audiovisual landscape" and had said of him that "he's an anti-Semite, he's the son of Hitler, he will exterminate everyone".[90]
On 27 October 2009, he was sentenced to a fine of 10,000 Euros for "public insult of people of Jewish faith or origin" related to his show with Robert Faurisson.[91]
On 8 June 2010, he was sentenced to a fine of €10,000 for defamation towards the International League against Racism and Anti-Semitism, which he had called "a mafia-like association that organizes censorship".[92]
On 10 October 2012, he was fined €887,135 for tax evasion. According to the French revenue service, Dieudonné failed to pay part of his taxes from 1997 to 2009.[citation needed].
Can someone from France please tell me what's going on?
Is quenelle really a hype, or is the media making it bigger than it is? I read that it's mostly used by immigrants as a anti Jewish thing.
A dumb gesture meant to be seen as an "anti-establishment" from a washed-up humorist (Dieudonné) whose shows are filled with hatred. He was funny in the 90s, but I don't know what happened since then. Problem is he's never been so successful than since he's been talking about Jewish people (which is like 85% of his show, the rest is blatant homophobia). His fans think they're being subversive by doing this gesture, when really it's just a dumb thing to do (and when they do it in front of synagogues and the Shoah Memorial, it's just downright disgusting).
The French government is trying to shut Dieudonné up (by getting all his shows cancelled), but I think the best way to make him go away is to stop talking about him. He's always been there, but these last few days he's everywhere in the news.
ComputerMKII
Banned
You are putting words into my mouth. You made a factual error and I corrected it, that was the entire purpose of my message. Nothing more.
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy
it's 4th of July in my asshole
Well to be fair a lot of movements resemble a Nazi salute..........
Itchy nipple then point....... NAZI!
I'd say from reading stuff linked in this thread it's certainly not 'just anti-establishment'. I would hesitate to call it equivalent to the Nazi salute, but at the same time, the intent seems there. Perhaps not supporting of the entire Nazi agenda, but certainly pushing anti-Semitism.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
The San Antonio Spurs' Tony Parker recently apologized for an old photo of him that surfaced doing the gesture.
A lot of young people are doing it as an anti-establishment gesture, but the roots are firmly Anti-Jewish.
A lot of young people are doing it as an anti-establishment gesture, but the roots are firmly Anti-Jewish.
ComputerMKII
Banned
If the quenelle is an anti-semitic gesture, it's by destination but certainly not by essence. It's like calling this
a nazi salute because someone was photographed doing it at a holocaust memorial or a synagogue. It does not make sense.
Assuming Dieudonné is an anti-semite he's more of the Maurras* type than the Adolf Hitler type.
* Maurras's anti-semitism was not racist, it was a blend of conspiracy theory and nationalism, i.e. France had to kick jews out of public service because they don't serve the interests of France, also he was anti-protestant, anti-freemason, etc. It's not about concentration camps, Lebensraum and all that.
a nazi salute because someone was photographed doing it at a holocaust memorial or a synagogue. It does not make sense.
Assuming Dieudonné is an anti-semite he's more of the Maurras* type than the Adolf Hitler type.
* Maurras's anti-semitism was not racist, it was a blend of conspiracy theory and nationalism, i.e. France had to kick jews out of public service because they don't serve the interests of France, also he was anti-protestant, anti-freemason, etc. It's not about concentration camps, Lebensraum and all that.
Except most of the dumbasses doing it today do it as an anti semitic gesture. Even if they claim it as "anti system". (yeah right)
ComputerMKII
Banned
The question is if the quenelle is, inherently, a nazi salute.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Your analogy is completely lacking in context. The salute was popularized by a famous anti-Semitic comedian (who claims the gesture is only Anti-Zionist, but whatever) who constantly rants about "the man" sanitizing his Holocaust denial.
No it doesn't, it doesn't specify 'inherently', and there's no reason why it would. The Nazi salute itself isn't 'inherently' a Nazi salute. It's absolutely irrelevant to the argument. What is important is how it is used, and it is employed in exactly the same way that the Nazi salute would be employed today.
ComputerMKII
Banned
So what's left to be discussed then? If you're making both the questions and the answers, you might as well lock the thread.
New? Apparently Tony Parker was doing it years ago.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10216051/tony-parker-san-antonio-spurs-sorry-controversial-photo
/beaten
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10216051/tony-parker-san-antonio-spurs-sorry-controversial-photo
/beaten
kurisu_1974
Banned
You really love playing the devil's advocate do you? At least I hope that's what you are doing.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Please stop making the thread about me with your irrelevant personal attacks.
http://k00ls.overblog.com/2013/12/p...a-quenelle-n-est-pas-un-geste-antisémite.html
it's anti-semetic as fuck
it's anti-semetic as fuck
You are acting kinda weird dude.
kurisu_1974
Banned
SuperÑ;96591953 said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism
Start at the chapter "History". They have been the go-to scapegoat since like forever.
More often than not, it will be aimed at jews. So yeah...
Even though Dieudonné and some of his supporters are presenting it as an anti-establishment thing, their hang-ups about jewish-lobbies don't change that meaning much.
Yay France T_T
Silver Age antisemitism : They killed the christ duh
Bronze Age antisemitism : CONSPIRACIES, Sage of Zion Protocols crazyness + Middle East shit.
Even though Dieudonné and some of his supporters are presenting it as an anti-establishment thing, their hang-ups about jewish-lobbies don't change that meaning much.
Yay France T_T
Golden Age antisemitism : They're traveler, the "ones from outside". WeirdosSuperÑ;96591953 said:
Silver Age antisemitism : They killed the christ duh
Bronze Age antisemitism : CONSPIRACIES, Sage of Zion Protocols crazyness + Middle East shit.
ComputerMKII
Banned
SuperÑ;96591953 said:
Besides the usual conspiracy theories (Jews run the world, the financial institutions, the media, Jews did 9/11), Dieudonné specifically criticized Jewish associations/lobbies for exploiting the tragedy of the Holocaust over and over again as a sort of magic wand to achieve political goals and to justify Israel's policy and colonization in the Middle-East - hence Dieudonné calling it the Shoah business and memorial pornography (for which he was sentened to a €7000 fine), hence his mocking Jewish associations with the tasteless song Shoananas (a parody of the old song Chaud Cacao by Annie Cordy) and encouraging pictures of quenelles in places related to the Holocaust.
It all began when Dieudonné was denied public financing for a movie about slavery and the suffering of black people, which led him to suspect that Jews pressured against the project or even ran the movie industry, the government or both. He called Jews 'slave traders', accused them of putting the suffering of Jews to the spotlight while minimizing the treatment of blacks throughout history (this argument, however, leads to an unhealthy competition between the suffering of minorities). He only went further into insanity since then and that's how he has come up with the quenelle and his shows got so problematic they got banned, to much controversy about freedom of speech.
Well the results from a poll were released just this morning and it seems like 71% of us dislike Dieudonné, so there's still some hope left.
Chuckie
Member
Jesus fucking Christ. That actually made me sick. People standing in front of a trainwagon used to transport thousands of Jewish men, women and children to death camps with a fucking smile and that retarded salute.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Nazi?
Yeah it's absolutely not anti-establishment.
Seriously if you have famous rich people doing it, it can't possibly be anti-establishment.
Dieudonné is a piece of shit and regardless of everything he should have fallen into obscurity where he belongs.
Also he should pay his fines or get thrown in prison like every citizen.
Because hating Israel doesn't mean you hate jews in general.
How is that even close to the same movement?
Seriously if you have famous rich people doing it, it can't possibly be anti-establishment.
Dieudonné is a piece of shit and regardless of everything he should have fallen into obscurity where he belongs.
Also he should pay his fines or get thrown in prison like every citizen.
Because hating Israel doesn't mean you hate jews in general.
Nazi?
How is that even close to the same movement?
Should have posted the image as well, all the examples in the threads have been rather soft in comparison.
I mean it's basically the nazi salute pointed downwards and it's rather obvious too.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
I like how people jump to calling anyone who doesn't agree with the state of Israel as being an antisemite in order to squelch valid criticism.
I'm seeing three different movements in the OP picture, so I assume every arm motion is quenelle now. (This shit is silly).
Why wouldn't they? There's nothing wrong with being anti-zionist
Dieudonné is only surfing on this because it's easy money for him.
Controversy sells after all
Problem is that the anti-zionist here can't fucking stop talking about the Shoah like Jews only existed during WW2 or something.
It's lazy and unbelievably stupid.
Seriously it's even more stupid than the movement to put all muslim in a single box of scooter thieving thugs.
mourad louali
Member
Dieudonné isn't muslim, he is an orthodox christian. But I like the way you are trying to put the gesture on islam and immigrants.
And no it's not just done by immigrants like said in OP, how about some white people :
or militaries :
or police officers :
or fire fighters :
Yeah I'm not sure they all look like young muslim men.
The fact that we have been talking about this for the last two weeks, just shows how our country is fucking lost
Well it is anti-establishment if your world-views equates the establishment with jewish lobbies and conspiracies...
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