Major Nelson: Xbox One and 360 Were The Top Selling Consoles In December...in USA

CouldBeWorse said:
You're starting to sound like Dyack. One console future!

I think you're romanticizing the PS2 and are forgetting that it still had some big holes in its lineup that were filled in by the Xbox and Gamecube. There wasn't a quality western RPG that I can remember and the shooters were clear steps down from the competition on Xbox. Not to mention that there weren't comparable games on PS2 for the things that Nintendo did best.

I loved the PS2 but I can't imagine not having an Xbox or Gamecube, especially since they had at least half of my top 10 that generation as exclusives. Of course, I'm dumb and just bought four systems last month (XB1+PS4+Wii U+Zelda 3DSXL) so I'm definitely the exception.
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I am not sure your analysis is correct entirely about the nature of PS2's lineup, and everyone here that knows me can tell you how often I articulate my love about GAMECUBE. It's one of my favorite Nintendo systems. I would agree with your western RPG and shooter stance sort of, but they still had them, they just didn't dominate. There were Medal of Honor games and Timesplitters and Black and all sorts of FPS, they just were better on Xbox. And there were plenty of amazing platformers and games like that on PS2, but nobody ever makes those types of games as well as Nintendo, and still don't. That remains their strength, so it's hardly a thing unique to that gen.

No, i don't think I'm really romanticizing PS2. It had the greatest variety of games, the largest proliferation of quality exclusives and western and eastern developers thrived on the platforms. And it did this partly because it dominated so completely in the console space.

Where I differ from Dyack is that I don't care if the future is one console or not, because I'll always eventually get the systems if the games are good. It just costs more, and that's the only part that sucks for me as a consumer. But the system itself, PS2 (and DS or GBA, really) demonstrated that it does not matter if one console demolishes the competition, it just matters that there is any competition at all.

BronsonLee said:
Holy shit Senjutsu, goddamnit it's not an essay contest
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R dott B said:
Whoa, that's a lot of words.
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Why is it when someone goes out of their way to greatly describe and elaborate on their points that people always take to joking about it or dismissing it? I hardly ever agree with Senjutsu, but at least here he is trying to explain his position. I know it's playful ribbing in part, but we should encourage such contribution, not discourage it. :)
 
R dott B said:
Whoa, that's a lot of words.
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Yea, but the general idea of what I'm saying is that the Xbox 360, if it somehow made Microsoft cocky and less ambitious, I'm not seeing that with the Xbox One. I see a platform that deserves to do really well. I see that Microsoft took some risks, focused on features and services, focused on getting good exclusives for their platform, did a quite commendable job unifying it all with their existing product ecosystem, and in the end have themselves a product that has scary potential. And, sure, it came at the cost of a console more expensive than it's competition, and without as much graphics performance muscle, but I don't see them regretting either in the long run. The positives far outweigh the negatives, particularly if they support the system as well as I think they will. They managed to build a quite powerful next gen gaming system while also putting in place some pretty exciting features that can be guaranteed across 100% of the userbase.

This doesn't mean a revolution of Kinect focused titles and features in games, but at least devs know that if they put in the work and do a good job of it, it will have been worth it because 100% of the userbase can take advantage of it. And this doesn't even just apply to the game side of things. There's lots of potential for the app side of things, too, because it pretty much shares so much with Windows 8.

BronsonLee said:
Holy shit Senjutsu, goddamnit it's not an essay contest
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Sorry lol :P
 
SenjutsuSage said:
Yea, but the general idea of what I'm saying is that the Xbox 360, if it somehow made Microsoft cocky and less ambitious, I'm not seeing that with the Xbox One. I see a platform that deserves to do really well. I see that Microsoft took some risks, focused on features and services, focused on getting good exclusives for their platform, did a quite commendable job unifying it all with their existing product ecosystem, and in the end have themselves a product that has scary potential. And, sure, it came at the cost of a console more expensive than it's competition, and without as much graphics performance muscle, but I don't see them regretting either in the long run. The positives far outweigh the negatives, particularly if they support the system as well as I think they will. They managed to build a quite powerful next gen gaming system while also putting in place some pretty exciting features that can be guaranteed across 100% of the userbase.

This doesn't mean a revolution of Kinect focused titles and features in games, but at least devs know that if they put in the work and do a good job of it, it will have been worth it because 100% of the userbase can take advantage of it. And this doesn't even just apply to the game side of things. There's lots of potential for the app side of things, too, because it pretty much shares so much with Windows 8.



Sorry lol :P
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I agree with this; It's going to be a interesting gen.
 
CouldBeWorse said:
I think this speaks more for your preferences for eastern-developed games, which still thrived and dominated on the PS2 but were relegated to a much smaller influence this generation (which the notable exception of Nintendo, but we're not really discussing the Wii Sports and Wii Fits of the world). And I'd still argue that thanks to the rise of indies and digital, we saw much more variety in commercially-viable games this past generation than ever before.

I don't know why you say "we haven't gotten a system again like that since." I'd put the 360 and PS3 up there with the PS2.

And come on, the NES was MUCH more dominant than the PS2.
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The NES certainly had a huge overall market share but saying it's more dominant than the PS2 is pretty ridiculous given that the Master System outsold it in Europe, South America and Aus/NZ.
 
LiquidSolid said:
The NES certainly had a huge overall market share but saying it's more dominant than the PS2 is pretty ridiculous given that the Master System outsold it in Europe, South America and Aus/NZ.
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See I'd love see those numbers. I am so hazy on worldwide numbers for the earlier systems
 
Good numbers for MS, but didn't they sell 909k consoles in November? It's not a big deal or a huge difference, but you'd think with a full month they'd demolish that number, not come up short by a 1,000.
 
lame topic title. Honestly this topic isn't even needed. Could just add to the NPD topic which already has XB1 as #1 in the title. Regardless of supply vs demand, it's still impressive that a more expensive system sold more. Not saying Sony wouldn't have sold more if they had more supply, but you can't hold that against Microsoft either. There's a variety of factors and the fact is that they won in the USA for December.
 
SenjutsuSage said:
A lot of good points that he makes, and I'm in agreement with much of it, but the soda industry isn't exactly comparable to the games industry. There's a variety of reasons for which a decent bit of competitive success for both platforms is in the overall best interest of consumers, chief among them being due to the unique investments and risks that are involved with major, first party game development. I would make the argument that, past a certain point, other industries as an analogy to the games industry lose merit as a point of comparison. And even beyond that, it doesn't always benefit the consumer if the gamers who went with the "wrong" console end up paying for that decision in terms of the quality of third party support, or if it somehow gives the platform owner pause with regards to investment into their first party efforts. If there are to be sacrifices in that regard, then let it be for reasons outside of the fact their product simply isn't selling well enough to justify the investment.

There are times indeed when one platform has every right and claim to rule them all, but I'm not seeing that with the PS4 and Xbox One. I see no legitimate reason for either console to destroy the other so badly that the other one is considered a failure. Contrary to all the PS3 doom and gloom, that platform was far from the failure for Sony that it's often portrayed as being. Sony had some problems as a result of their decisions with the PS3, no doubt that, but in the end the platform performed at such a level that it ended up being to the benefit of the entire industry as a whole. Developers were able to sell more games, PS3 owners can't say they were shortchanged or screwed, both 360 and PS3 owners had a great generation, unless you were a fanboy that wanted total world domination for one or the other side, and hoped to extract pleasure from seeing the other crash and burn.

There's no good that will come from the Xbox One not being a legitimately competitive alternative to the PS4. I believe it to be that promising of a games console and an overall product. That doesn't mean it has to sell neck and neck with the PS4, but it also can't be a sales flop, either, if you get my meaning. The Xbox One, and the potential it has as an overall entertainment device, is exactly the kind of videogame system I want. I also especially like the television features and integration. I love that a videogame console and it's interface is so connected to my TV viewing. I find it extremely cool that I could be watching Rachel Maddow on MSNBC one minute, then with a simple hand gesture or voice command, have it merged or collapsed into my game console experience. A system that tries to be more than just what we've come to expect from a videogame console is precisely what I think a next gen console should be. Because the game side and OS application side are so separate and off to themselves in the systems design, they can both continue to be built upon and upgraded in ways that we've never seen from a videogame console before, because whatever you did on the OS application side would be a major risk to whatever needed to happen on the game side. That's one of the cooler, less talked about parts of the Xbox One that I think a lot of people are really overlooking. There's much increased reason to be excited about what Microsoft has planned for BUILD and what the future, major updates to the Xbox One will be, thanks in large part due to the way it's built with the hypervisor and multiple virtual machines. People may not buy the notion that Microsoft have the right idea with the Xbox One, but I think they do, even if they had to make sacrifices to raw graphics performance to get there. Microsoft, with every console they've released thus far, have taken important steps to push the industry forward and, in my opinion, change it for the better, and Sony has responded to that competition and have accordingly improved their own systems for the better, also making some moves that I'm certain Microsoft haven't ignored. I'd bet anything that if the Xbox 360 didn't find the market that it did, Sony might never have been so aggressive in improving their online services and infrastructure. It may not be anything even close to what it is currently without that competition, because the message would have been sent that there is no significant market for that kind of thing, and so they are just fine staying the current course, which is exactly what would have happened without a meaningful threat from the Xbox 360.

One clear superior option can also be good at times, but I don't think that this is one of those cases. Both the PS4 and Xbox One must be real and serious competitive alternatives to one another, and deserve to be successful. That doesn't mean that they have to be more or less identical sales wise, but they both need to sell quite well, and what's happening so far is very promising. It doesn't matter if the PS4 ends up being a big sales winner, so long as lack of solid sales doesn't become a serious issue for the Xbox One that it impacts the quality of games that come to the platform from both third and first party sources, and it doesn't end up dissuading Microsoft from taking some of the good ideas from the Xbox One and incorporating them into even better future Xbox consoles. Hell, it isn't even a stretch to say that an unsuccessful Xbox One stint could place at risk the Xbox brand as a whole. Now, I know that probably excites some people, but it doesn't excite me at all, and it shouldn't excite gamers or developers.
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I just wanted to quote this because of all the words, not hating or anything.
 
SenjutsuSage said:
Yea, but the general idea of what I'm saying is that the Xbox 360, if it somehow made Microsoft cocky and less ambitious, I'm not seeing that with the Xbox One. I see a platform that deserves to do really well. I see that Microsoft took some risks, focused on features and services, focused on getting good exclusives for their platform, did a quite commendable job unifying it all with their existing product ecosystem, and in the end have themselves a product that has scary potential. And, sure, it came at the cost of a console more expensive than it's competition, and without as much graphics performance muscle, but I don't see them regretting either in the long run. The positives far outweigh the negatives, particularly if they support the system as well as I think they will. They managed to build a quite powerful next gen gaming system while also putting in place some pretty exciting features that can be guaranteed across 100% of the userbase.

This doesn't mean a revolution of Kinect focused titles and features in games, but at least devs know that if they put in the work and do a good job of it, it will have been worth it because 100% of the userbase can take advantage of it. And this doesn't even just apply to the game side of things. There's lots of potential for the app side of things, too, because it pretty much shares so much with Windows 8.



Sorry lol :P
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I can't disagree. Now that the launch dust is starting to settle, the Xbox One comes across to me as the more next-gen system. Not in terms of pure power like the PS4, but just in general. As Microsoft took more risks with features and balanced it all out with enough power to clearly still be next-gen for gaming. It is just more ambitious on the whole.

Of course it's hard to forget the messaging that was a comedy of errors and their initial plans were the most abhorrent ideas the industry has ever seen. I have spit plenty of venom their way for that as well, but now I can say without a doubt that I'm sold on the system. It simply has more games I want to play early on, it seems well made and has more next-gen features that I am finally convinced I will use. Never thought it would turn out that way, but there you go.
 
Given the strength of MS being being the US it seems like their choice to focus on just 13 markets was wise and is allowing them a good healthy start to the next gen.
 
Mastamind said:
Months of preorders helped.
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For the numbers they pulled in November? Yeah I can see that, but with the amount of stock they had and with what I would feel was the consensus that both MS and Sony would sell out all the consoles they would produce in the holiday launch period, I have a feeling MS had pinned their hopes on much higher sells. I think with the amount of stock they flooded the market with they were looking for 1,000,000+ in sales. Still not a bad number, but I think we all know that this point in time is not when neither MS or Sony should be celebrating since they were expected to sell out... it's these next few months where the numbers will indicate how solid each platform will be going into the rest of the year, at least that's how I see it.
 
SenjutsuSage said:
Yea, but the general idea of what I'm saying is that the Xbox 360, if it somehow made Microsoft cocky and less ambitious, I'm not seeing that with the Xbox One. I see a platform that deserves to do really well. I see that Microsoft took some risks, focused on features and services, focused on getting good exclusives for their platform, did a quite commendable job unifying it all with their existing product ecosystem, and in the end have themselves a product that has scary potential. And, sure, it came at the cost of a console more expensive than it's competition, and without as much graphics performance muscle, but I don't see them regretting either in the long run. The positives far outweigh the negatives, particularly if they support the system as well as I think they will. They managed to build a quite powerful next gen gaming system while also putting in place some pretty exciting features that can be guaranteed across 100% of the userbase.
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I vehemently disagree with the bolded conclusion. A lot of features will never be available in countries outside the USA, especially in countries with nightmare content distribution laws (eg Australia). Throw in DMCA shutdowns of workarounds, and its unlikely that non-US customers will get close to experiencing all the extra services the XB1 is being sold on.

* I don't think all of this is in MS's hands - but its irritating for people in backwards markets.
 
Pretty simple explanation.
Christmas time, two new consoles are out, no PS4s to be found.
Parents will buy whatever's available to satisfy little Timmy; they bought XboxOnes by default.
Surely they would have gone with the $100 cheaper console with the PlayStation name brand that also offered a kid's game (Knack) to go with it.
 
SkoomaSuckinSwit said:
Pretty simple explanation.
Christmas time, two new consoles are out, no PS4s to be found.
Parents will buy whatever's available to satisfy little Timmy; they bought XboxOnes by default.
Surely they would have gone with the $100 cheaper console with the PlayStation name brand that also offered a kid's game (Knack) to go with it.
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MS definitely benefited from the lack of PS4 availability in December, I don't think anyone could argue that point.
 
Is it just me or has the there been a lot of negative PS4 news lately? from problems with PS, Share, delays and on the flipside, Xbox One having a second wind?



I was not even sure in november, by the way people were saying doomsday prophecies about xbox (and Nokia guy wanting to close it down if he becomes MS CEO). I am really shocked that Xbox has done so well after all. :O
 
Vigilant Walrus said:
Is it just me or has the there been a lot of negative PS4 news lately? from problems with PS, Share, delays and on the flipside, Xbox One having a second wind?



I was not even sure in november, by the way people were saying doomsday prophecies about xbox (and Nokia guy wanting to close it down if he becomes MS CEO). I am really shocked that Xbox has done so well after all. :O
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It has to do with the game library. People are finding themselves bored of what two months ago was a reason for excitement in their lives.

Your real love begins to show once the honeymoon is over.
 
Vigilant Walrus said:
Is it just me or has the there been a lot of negative PS4 news lately? from problems with PS, Share, delays and on the flipside, Xbox One having a second wind?



I was not even sure in november, by the way people were saying doomsday prophecies about xbox (and Nokia guy wanting to close it down if he becomes MS CEO). I am really shocked that Xbox has done so well after all. :O
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I'm sorry, but this seems like a very skewed outlook on the ps4 launch.

First, what problem is this PS, exactly?

Second, share is not perfect, at least with BF4 for some bullshit reason (it does work half the time for me tho, but I haven't used it in a while since it was buggy, hopefully it has been addressed with the latest update), but every other game that I've used the share button it has worked as advertised.

Thirdly, what delay do you speak of? Driveclub? Watch Dogs? Weren't they delayed before the launch of the console? And the console still went on to break records, didn't it? Destiny? I mean that's another 3rd party title, just like Watch Dogs, so that doesn't affect any platform holder any more negatively than the other.

I'm just trying to figure out how you got to where you are with the bolded.
 
Vigilant Walrus said:
Is it just me or has the there been a lot of negative PS4 news lately? from problems with PS, Share, delays and on the flipside, Xbox One having a second wind?



I was not even sure in november, by the way people were saying doomsday prophecies about xbox (and Nokia guy wanting to close it down if he becomes MS CEO). I am really shocked that Xbox has done so well after all. :O
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Is this a negative PS4 news?
 
Yagharek said:
I vehemently disagree with the bolded conclusion. A lot of features will never be available in countries outside the USA, especially in countries with nightmare content distribution laws (eg Australia). Throw in DMCA shutdowns of workarounds, and its unlikely that non-US customers will get close to experiencing all the extra services the XB1 is being sold on.

* I don't think all of this is in MS's hands - but its irritating for people in backwards markets.
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I think the most irritating thing should be MS & US think US 'is' the world...
 
congrats to MS, nice work. they sold many more units than most people predicted/expected. yield issues? yeah right.. I still can't believe how many XB1 they managed to sell at that 499$ msrp

the thing here is, it's a 100$ more expensive console with such a bad press due to their proposal prior to the famous 180 move, but while most people expected to be bashed by PS4 due to being cheaper, more powerful and better press, but look what happened in the US. so, don't spin this achievement by saying Sony had shortages, because I've heard from many people that means PS4 was outselling XB1 by a far margin, but now it seems that Sony haven't sold more units because they weren't able to fulfill the demand, well, if that's the case, it's their fault. even if XB1 and PS4 sold the same units that would be a good sign for MS, being able to match their direct competitor by selling a more expensive and less powerful (in case that matters to everyone) with worse press.

I'm glad we're living a neck to neck situation, both of them will have to put more effort in order to win the market there, which only means good things to us.
 
The US and UK were the only places where people expected the Xbox One to beat the PS4, if it was ever going to. The US is the country where the Xbox actually tries to add serious value via services (i.e. HBO Go) and the country where Xbox 360 demolished the PS3. Bad press or not, it is still the successor to the most successful gaming console in the US by a very, very large margin and synonymous to both entertainment and connected gaming experiences.

What's happened is that, right now, the Xbox One barely managed to outsell the PS4 despite having considerably more stock than the PS4 in the region and the momentum of the Xbox brand behind it. Its not a fantastic success if the Xbox One can't start beating the PS4 decisively because it signifies weakening of the brand in a region that gets the best of everything from Microsoft. Sony's doing nothing yet Microsoft is only beating Sony's supply constrained console (where you still have to preorder it on Amazon) by 50k in their core region.

Its only a positive if its viewed in a vacuum, which doesn't make any sense. Its not a good sign unless the US seriously starts favoring the Xbox One because the PS4 is basically meeting the 2:1 ratio everywhere outside the United States. And even those places have demand outstripping stock.
 
intheinbetween said:
I'm glad we're living a neck to neck situation, both of them will have to put more effort in order to win the market there, which only means good things to us.
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Here's the thing, though.

That, what you said right there? It's not true.

It's not neck and neck. It only looks that way for now, but the writing is VERY CLEARLY on the wall.

It's like having two cars racing at top speed. And after the first quarter mile marker, they're close to each other, but there's another 6 miles to go, and one of the cars is already at top speed, the other is still accelerating.
 
Quadraphonic said:
Here's the thing, though.

That, what you said right there? It's not true.

It's not neck and neck. It only looks that way for now, but the writing is VERY CLEARLY on the wall.

It's like having two cars racing at top speed. And after the first quarter mile marker, they're close to each other, but there's another 6 miles to go, and one of the cars is already at top speed, the other is still accelerating.
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wait, what? stop with those analogies. none of them are in full speed, this gen just started, and right now it's a neck to neck situation, wether you like it or not. we'll see what happens in the coming months,
 
intheinbetween said:
wait, what? stop with those analogies. none of them are in full speed, this gen just started, and right now it's a neck to neck situation, wether you like it or not. we'll see what happens in the coming months,
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But its only neck and neck if viewed in a vacuum. Right now, Microsoft's console can be found everywhere and the PS4 has to be preordered on Amazon. Right now, Microsoft could only outsell the severely supply constrained PS4 by ~50k units in their number #1 core market that severely favored the Xbox 360 over the PS3 and even the Wii.

Everywhere else? Its not anywhere close to neck and neck. The PS4 is basically outselling the Xbox 2:1 in every country in Europe. God knows about Asia. Outside of the vacuum you created, the Xbox One's performance isn't actually that great right now.

A reminder: Microsoft went balls out giving Americans a crapload of American centric features like cable and sports integration. Sony did nothing but throw out a well-specced console for $400. Microsoft is outselling the guy who did nothing and can't even get enough stock on the table by only 50K. Unless that sales gap keeps increasing, then Xbox One's relative performance won't be good right now or in the future.
 
intheinbetween said:
wait, what? stop with those analogies. none of them are in full speed, this gen just started, and right now it's a neck to neck situation, wether you like it or not. we'll see what happens in the coming months,
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I know what will happen.

What happened this month was closely predicted and expected, after selling out before the end of November.

In one country, for one month, the Xbox One barely outsold the PS4. Heheh... one.

And now it's being trounced in Canada by the Ouya:
http://www.amazon.ca/gp/bestsellers/2014/videogames/ref=zg_bsar_cal_ye
 
Pop quiz:
Which next gen home console sold less in December than the previous month at 908k sold, all while having plentiful stock in stores?

Bonus question:
Does anyone think this is a good sign? If so why?
 
BrokenEchelon said:
You allocated most of your shipments here. I should hope you managed to sell all of them, Larry.
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There's no way they sold them all. If they allocated so many consoles to the US but only beat PS4's month sales by 50,000ish, they either are producing them at a slower pace, or the demand is not chewing through every console on store shelves.
 
Tommy DJ said:
But its only neck and neck if viewed in a vacuum. Right now, Microsoft's console can be found everywhere and the PS4 has to be preordered on Amazon. Right now, Microsoft could only outsell the severely supply constrained PS4 by ~50k units in their number #1 core market that severely favored the Xbox 360 over the PS3 and even the Wii.

Everywhere else? Its not anywhere close to neck and neck. The PS4 is basically outselling the Xbox 2:1 in every country in Europe. God knows about Asia. Outside of the vacuum you created, the Xbox One's performance isn't actually that great right now.

A reminder: Microsoft went balls out giving Americans a crapload of American centric features like cable and sports integration. Sony did nothing but throw out a well-specced console for $400. Microsoft is outselling the guy who did nothing and can't even get enough stock on the table by only 50K. Unless that sales gap keeps increasing, then Xbox One's relative performance won't be good right now or in the future.
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Absolutely right.

Jan-March are going to be fascinating, although I suspect that the PS4 will still remain supply constrained throughout that period whilst XB1 sales are going to hit the wall.
 
MS will take US in the long run thanks to the brand being popular and movement on price, I remember as soon as 360 price was slashed to a friendlier price it was consistently outpacing all consoles. Still amazed how well it's done at $500

Also Ryse selling well has really made my day. Well done Crytek, please let there be another!
 
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