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[Osiris]

Question . Is the esRAM bottleneck created pre processing or post processing. If it is post processing, will the 8% additional power make a difference ?

Question 2. 1.28 tflop or 1.31, its still considerably behind 1.8 tflops so will be fps difference be 8% as well, which for a console doing either 30 fps or 45 fps will make it 33-50 respectively ?

It won't be an 8% increase in framerate, that would assume 100% efficiency which is not happening. MS have themselves touted the chip at a peak of around 80% efficiency. The chips don't run at peak efficiency due to other architectural issues, realistic efficiency is closer to 60%-65% in real-world use.

So the absolute ideal situation, which doesn't cover all situations, but does give us an upper bound, that would be:

8% x 0.85 = 6.4% increase in peak performance.
8% x 0.65 = 5.2% increase in real-world performance.

So a game running at 27fps would likely see an increase of 1.4fps to 28.4fps.
and a game running at 57fps would likely see an increase of 3fps to 60fps.

Given the marginal gains, I'd have kept the snap/kinect functionality reserved myself, I guess they figured they had already lost the message on that front.

 

[OboroShogun]

If they don't care about the difference of double the res as seen in Ghosts, then they really won't care about this 8%.

 

[ElTorro]

Change that to framerate half the time go <30. Kind of pathetic if you think about it. I haven't seen any other game struggles so much with framerate minus a free to play game but even that game has a 60fps base.

I must have played a different Ryse than half of GAF.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Why do DBZ analogies work so fucking well?

Goddamn son.

 

[Thrakier]

This is purely a matter of opinion some people may not even care or notice 720p vs 900p or 900p vs 1080p or even 720p vs 1080p and 30-45fps compared to 45-60fps.

Some people will care but its not like its a fact that these difference are significant or noticeable to everyone. People didnt seems that bothered with the PS3 versions of games like cod:ghosts looking way worse on the PS3.cod ghosts on PS3 looks way worse then the 360 version compared to how the X1 version looks to the PS4, the X1 version still looks good and a nice leap over the previos gen because of this the advantage the PS4 has are some what diminishing.Some ppl will find the PS4 advantages to be significant to them but the majority of people will find it less of a issue then the PS3 graphics were.

I would argue that many people who do not care simply don't know. Since the outcome is the same I let you decide if it makes a difference.

 

[Thrakier]

I must have played a different Ryse than half of GAF.

You should try the Ryse that Digital Foundry played.

 

[SwiftDeath]

This is purely a matter of opinion some people may not even care or notice 720p vs 900p or 900p vs 1080p or even 720p vs 1080p and 30-45fps compared to 45-60fps.

Some people will care but its not like its a fact that these difference are significant or noticeable to everyone. People didnt seems that bothered with the PS3 versions of games like cod:ghosts looking way worse on the PS3.cod ghosts on PS3 looks way worse then the 360 version compared to how the X1 version looks to the PS4, the X1 version still looks good and a nice leap over the previos gen because of this the advantage the PS4 has are some what diminishing.Some ppl will find the PS4 advantages to be significant to them but the majority of people will find it less of a issue then the PS3 graphics were.

You understand that objectively we are seeing larger differences graphically between multiplats this gen already then we did last gen?

1080p vs 720p is massive. 1080p is 2.25 times more resolution than 720p. That's crazy. We also have a major AAA game releasing [Tomb Raider] that is literally half the framerate on one console over the other. The differences thus far have already proven to be greater than last gen.

 

[phosphor112]

I think the reason that "people like nib" might have problems with what you say may have more to do with the fact that you spend a lot of time trying to have it both ways, as exemplified by this very post. Here you spend the first half of this paragraph downplaying power difference, espousing XBO's "good enough" approach and then try to end by bragging yet again (lost count of how many times you've claimed this now) about how Ryse is the best looking game on either system, subjectivity be damned. Trying to defend "good enough" while continuously bragging about "best looking" maybe just tends to make people think you aren't all that serious about one of the two in these arguments...

Pow, right in the kisser.

 

[mrklaw]

This is purely a matter of opinion some people may not even care or notice 720p vs 900p or 900p vs 1080p or even 720p vs 1080p and 30-45fps compared to 45-60fps.

Some people will care but its not like its a fact that these difference are significant or noticeable to everyone. People didnt seems that bothered with the PS3 versions of games like cod:ghosts looking way worse on the PS3.cod ghosts on PS3 looks way worse then the 360 version compared to how the X1 version looks to the PS4, the X1 version still looks good and a nice leap over the previos gen because of this the advantage the PS4 has are some what diminishing.Some ppl will find the PS4 advantages to be significant to them but the majority of people will find it less of a issue then the PS3 graphics were.

whether they matter or not is subjective and down to personal opinion.

Whether one is better than the other is objective and down to fact

 

[Maninthemirror]

It won't be an 8% increase in framerate, that would assume 100% efficiency which is not happening. MS have themselves touted the chip at a peak of around 80% efficiency. The chips don't run at peak efficiency due to other architectural issues, realistic efficiency is closer to 60%-65% in real-world use.

So the absolute ideal situation, which doesn't cover all situations, but does give us an upper bound, that would be:

8% x 0.85 = 6.4% increase in peak performance.
8% x 0.65 = 5.2% increase in real-world performance.

So a game running at 27fps would likely see an increase of 1.4fps to 28.4fps.
and a game running at 57fps would likely see an increase of 3fps to 60fps.

Given the marginal gains, I'd have kept the snap/kinect functionality reserved myself, I guess they figured they had already lost the message on that front.

Looking at the lack of quality kinect games or games at all for kinect they made the right decision

 

[ElTorro]

You should try the Ryse that Digital Foundry played.

The article does not say that the game dips half the time; it doesn't. Just watch the video on DF.

I just don't get why the game's framerate is being portrayed as somewhat embarrassing. Sure, it sucks that it is not perfectly locked, but the drops are actually rare. I remember noticeable drops during the initial scene of the forrest level and during a big fight in the "Scotland" level, but apart from that it ran smoothly.

Even Knack performs worse than Ryse. For instance, the final level in Knack, especially the final boss, was worse than any scene I encountered in Ryse.

I don't want to defend sub-30 framerates, but when it comes to Ryse, I always get the feeling that the issue is overblown relative to many other next-gen games. When somebody tells me that a game runs below its target framerate half the time, I think of games like Assassin's Creed or GTA4 on PS3, but Ryse certainly doesn't come to mind.

 

[Steroyd]

The before would be Eternal Jobber Krillin, the after would be when Krillin had his "Hidden Potential" unlocked, and then still kept getting beat by most.

What, no? Wii U is Krillin, Xbox One will always be Vegeta, envious of Goku and tries to catch up power wise no matter what, only to find he's always one step behind in the end.

 

[Kanokare]

What, no? Wii U is Krillin, Xbox One will always be Vegeta, envious of Goku and tries to catch up power wise no matter what, only to find he's always one step behind in the end.

I think Xbox is Trunks and PS is Vegeta. PC is SSJ5 Gokou.

 

[phosphor112]

The article does not say that the game dips half the time; it doesn't. Just watch the video on DF.

I just don't get why the game's framerate is being portrayed as somewhat embarrassing. Sure, it sucks that it is not perfectly locked, but the drops are actually rare. I had drops into the 26-28 during the initial forrest scene and during a big fight in the "Scotland" level, but apart from that it ran smoothly.

Even Knack performs worse than Ryse. For instance, the final level in Knack, especially the final boss, was worse than any scene I encountered in Ryse.

I don't want to defend sub-30 framerates, but when it comes to Ryse, I always get the feeling that the issue is overblown relative to many other next-gen games.

Knack was a technical mess. It's like they tessellated everything just because they can. Just... stahp.

 

[paradise_circus]

I think Xbox is Trunks and PS is Vegeta. PC is SSJ5 Gokou.

My Mac is kururin though.

 

[ElTorro]

Knack was a technical mess. It's like they tessellated everything just because they can. Just... stahp.

The reasons for Knack's performance are not my actual point. Calling the framerate in Ryse "ridiculous" in comparison to other games, as the poster to which I responded did, is. We don't have to resort to hyperbole or factually incorrect statements, and I see people portraying the performance of the game as "embarrassing" all the time. For a game with a target of 30 fps, it just isn't.

 

[phosphor112]

The reasons for Knack's performance are not my actual point. Calling the framerate in Ryse "ridiculous" in comparison to other games, as the poster to which I responded did, is. We don't have to resort to hyperbole or factually incorrect statements, and I see people portraying the performance of the game as "embarrassing" all the time. For a game with a target of 30 fps, it just isn't.

I know. I don't have any input on Ryse. =P. I've seen it in person but not enough to give a final word on it. I can comment on Knack though, I played several hours of it.

 

[p3tran]

The article does not say that the game dips half the time; it doesn't. Just watch the video on DF.

I just don't get why the game's framerate is being portrayed as somewhat embarrassing. Sure, it sucks that it is not perfectly locked, but the drops are actually rare. I remember noticeable drops during the initial scene of the forrest level and during a big fight in the "Scotland" level, but apart from that it ran smoothly.

Even Knack performs worse than Ryse. For instance, the final level in Knack, especially the final boss, was worse than any scene I encountered in Ryse.

I don't want to defend sub-30 framerates, but when it comes to Ryse, I always get the feeling that the issue is overblown relative to many other next-gen games. When somebody tells me that a game runs below its target framerate half the time, I think of games like Assassin's Creed or GTA4 on PS3, but Ryse certainly doesn't come to mind.

its funny what internet can do if you want to believe..
in my country, microsoft has not even thought yet about releasing xbone here, and of course there was never-ever a demo event etc.
so, outside of the few people that imported xbones, NOBODY else has first hand experience.
yet, EVERYBODY is absolutely certain that ryse ..sucks, is a ..technical mess, runs at ....16fps, and mainly is a big ..uncontrollable QTE.

E-V-E-R-Y-B-O-D-Y!!

internet.. heh, if i knew what kind of beast you would become, I'd play my cards differently 20 years ago

 

[ChainsawFilms]

Question . Is the esRAM bottleneck created pre processing or post processing. If it is post processing, will the 8% additional power make a difference ?

Question 2. 1.28 tflop or 1.31, its still considerably behind 1.8 tflops so will be fps difference be 8% as well, which for a console doing either 30 fps or 45 fps will make it 33-50 respectively ?

1: ESRAM bottleneck is the size, not processing power of the rest of the components, so this increase will have no benefit there.

2: 8% increases don't scale linearly. It's quite ironic that the 50% advantage of the PS4 was met with, "Things don't scale like that!", and now we're pretty much getting, "8% increase will make up the difference in Tomb Raider", there's a crazy mentality about these things.

Will it impact the rest of the system in some way (Snap maybe?) Almost certainly (you don't get 8% from nowhere, unless they really did keep it to one side in case and never touched it, and are now in power-panic mode). Will this make up any ground on the PS4? Fractional at best. Is it a good thing? Ultimately yes, more power can never hurt

 

[TonkuySlon]

I'm an XOner...if this can get all games to 900p and a bare minimum LOCK on 30fps or higher I'm happy.

I knew buying the XOne that it would never match PS4...but I'm OK with that as long as we start getting everything 900p and a minimum of 30fps.

 

[ypo]

The reasons for Knack's performance are not my actual point. Calling the framerate in Ryse "ridiculous" in comparison to other games, as the poster to which I responded did, is. We don't have to resort to hyperbole or factually incorrect statements, and I see people portraying the performance of the game as "embarrassing" all the time. For a game with a target of 30 fps, it just isn't.

I don't know which video you watched but from DF ""Originally touted as a solid 30fps experience, Ryse misses the mark more often than we'd like with frame-rates often fluctuating between 26-28fps and the most challenging situations even seeing the frame-rate drop into the teens."

The 2 videos shown a lot of time it dropped below 30. Did you only watched the first minute of the 1st video or something.? Saying half of the time at 30fps was being generous

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=i8Qib67ObcE

 

[SwiftDeath]

its funny what internet can do if you want to believe..
in my country, microsoft has not even thought yet about releasing xbone here, and of course there was never-ever a demo event etc.
so, outside of the few people that imported xbones, NOBODY else has first hand experience.
yet, EVERYBODY is absolutely certain that ryse ..sucks, is a ..technical mess, runs at ....16fps, and mainly is a big ..uncontrollable QTE.

E-V-E-R-Y-B-O-D-Y!!

internet.. heh, if i knew what kind of beast you would become, I'd play my cards differently 20 years ago

Not be rude but you realize you're complaining about internet hyperbole with um internet hyperbole? I think the internet's got to you and you just don't know it!!!! lol

I imagine you don't actually know evey single person in your country's take on Ryse?

 

[LittleJohnny]

I don't know which video you watched but from DF ""Originally touted as a solid 30fps experience, Ryse misses the mark more often than we'd like with frame-rates often fluctuating between 26-28fps and the most challenging situations even seeing the frame-rate drop into the teens."

The 2 videos shown a lot of time it dropped below 30. Did you only watched the first minute of the 1st video or something.? Saying half of the time at 30fps was being generous

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=i8Qib67ObcE

Dropping from 30 to 28fps on occasion is hardly considered a disaster. In fact, if I didn't see this, I would never know the game dropped below 30. Maybe the game has been patched since? seriously, I'm sensitive to framerate and did not notice any framerate issues with Ryse. I bet the framerate rage comes from seeing this analysis rather than anyone complaining about it when actually playing the game. Although there are other clear issues to be upset about lol. Overall I did enjoy Ryse for what it is, I got just what I expected from the gameplay and more enjoyment than expected actually.


Edit: After watching the entire video, the worst part which happens at 9:30 into the video is not actual controllable gameplay, no wonder I couldn't feel it or notice it. Maybe if I was controlling the character it the framerate dropped like that I would've felt it, but damn, that was some serious bombing that maybe they felt could get away with leaving intact since it was just cinematic.

 

[ypo]

So you are taking the smallest drop and apply it to all situations and replace majority with "on occasion"...ok. Regardless 28 is not 30. Next thing you know people will say 28 to 26 is no big deal, what's that? 26 to 24. That's so tiny I hardly noticed.

Maybe you missed this part the first time.

from DF ""Originally touted as a solid 30fps experience, Ryse misses the mark more often than we'd like with frame-rates often fluctuating between 26-28fps and the most challenging situations even seeing the frame-rate drop into the teens."

 

[p3tran]

Not be rude but you realize you're complaining about internet hyperbole with um internet hyperbole? I think the internet's got to you and you just don't know it!!!! lol

I imagine you don't actually know evey single person in your country's take on Ryse?

its not like every citizen in my country (or in any country?) is interested in gaming consoles and ryse in particular, so what you claim is unfeasible anyways.

but out of those people that do have interest in games, like those that care enough to follow and participate in game forums, the "common sense" is exactly what i wrote above, whether you like to believe its ..hyperbole, or not.
even when I tried telling some people (that I talk to for years) that ryse is not a bad game, is not qte fuckfest but more of a nextgen doubledragon, and that the combination of graphics and sound is really something, I was told that ....I feel insecure about my xbone purchase ( ), or even that I have no other games to play so I am stuck with ryse and I see it better than it is, and various other funny things.
it was like a surreal world where EVERYBODY had played the game, and i was the last one to join the party

and no, you didnt come across as rude or anything

 

[SwiftDeath]

its not like every citizen in my country (or in any country?) is interested in gaming consoles and ryse in particular, so what you claim is unfeasible anyways.

but out of those people that do have interest in games, like those that care enough to follow and participate in game forums, the "common sense" is exactly what i wrote above, whether you like to believe its ..hyperbole, or not.
even when I tried telling some people (that I talk to for years) that ryse is not a bad game, is not qte fuckfest but more of a nextgen doubledragon, and that the combination of graphics and sound is really something, I was told that ....I feel insecure about my xbone purchase ( ), or even that I have no other games to play so I am stuck with ryse and I see it better than it is, and various other funny things.
it was like a surreal world where EVERYBODY had played the game, and i was the last one to join the party

and no, you didnt come across as rude or anything

I do agree that appears to be the common internet consesnus from what I've seen and obviously I don't know one way or the other for your country specifically but if it makes you feel better, I'm sure there are at least some other individuals in your country that have enjoyed playing through Ryse

Has XB1 released officially in your country?

 

[anexanhume]

PS4 vs. XB1 power war over:

https://twitter.com/rygorous/status/427907890301530112

 

[SwiftDeath]

PS4 vs. XB1 power war over:

https://twitter.com/rygorous/status/427907890301530112

Mmm that gravy sure is creamy

 

[Chobel]

PS4 vs. XB1 power war over:

https://twitter.com/rygorous/status/427907890301530112

Creamier, huh? I like this word.

 

[p3tran]

I do agree that appears to be the common internet consesnus from what I've seen and obviously I don't know one way or the other for your country specifically but if it makes you feel better, I'm sure there are at least some other individuals in your country that have enjoyed playing through Ryse

Has XB1 released officially in your country?

no, not released yet, not even a date.

hey, I have no problem or need to be looking for ..companions in order to enjoy what I like. I just found the reaction and the ..fully developed ..critique very funny back then

but yes, you are correct, since that time, at least a (small) bunch of people in those same forums have also imported xbones, and actually I get to see every now and then the odd "OMG! RYSE!!" comment, and i instantly know what happened

 

[AstroNut325]

PS4 vs. XB1 power war over:

https://twitter.com/rygorous/status/427907890301530112

Secret sauce confirmed? Oh wait...

All in all I hope people aren't expecting any measurable differences with this bump. The latest DF article on Tomb Raider paints a gap wider than most people would like to believe.

 

[SwiftDeath]

no, not released yet, not even a date.

hey, I have no problem or need to be looking for ..companions in order to enjoy what I like. I just found the reaction and the ..fully developed ..critique very funny back then

but yes, you are correct, since that time, at least a (small) bunch of people in those same forums have also imported xbones, and actually I get to see every now and then the odd "OMG! RYSE!!" comment, and i instantly know what happened

Ah yes well without people actually having the ability to play it it'd be hard to find those of similar opinion. Once it's released officially in your country I'm sure it will improve somewhat although I don't think there's word on any other regions MS is going to roll out into.

 

[Biker19]

Not really. Some will, of course, but not all of them. We've seen plenty of examples over the years of developers not doing this. Hell, the oXbox wasn't even remotely close to the PS2 in terms of sales but the power gap and ease of development still resulted in publishers like Ubisoft focusing on it more than the PS2.

Then take a look at how gimped a number of PS3 versions were last gen, even though sales were neck and neck with the 360. This improved over time but again, only because they were neck and neck (and even then, you'd get the odd game that really suffered, like Skyrim).

If the Xbone falls behind as much as most people think it will, what incentive will there be to focus on it?

People that say games will be designed around weaker hardware are still coming to grasp it seems with the fact that this doesnt change the ps4 multiplats will run or look better or both.

Agreed. Anyone who thinks that most 3rd party developers will start on Xbox One for development first because it's "weaker" will be in for a big shock.

3rd party publishers will want to get the most out of their games graphically as much as possible, especially when they want to compete with the graphics on PS4's exclusives.

 

[simplythebest]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2014/01/27/microsoft-exec-defends-xbox-ones-frame-rate-resolution-problems/?partner=yahootix

 

[SwiftDeath]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2014/01/27/microsoft-exec-defends-xbox-ones-frame-rate-resolution-problems/?partner=yahootix

Wow even the forbes contributer who said that in certain cases 30fps is better than 60fps is admitting that Xb1's got a power-to-price problem at the moment. Still dislike that guy

 

[Gestault]

I think the reason that "people like nib" might have problems with what you say may have more to do with the fact that you spend a lot of time trying to have it both ways, as exemplified by this very post. Here you spend the first half of this paragraph downplaying power difference, espousing XBO's "good enough" approach and then try to end by bragging yet again (lost count of how many times you've claimed this now) about how Ryse is the best looking game on either system, subjectivity be damned. Trying to defend "good enough" while continuously bragging about "best looking" maybe just tends to make people think you aren't all that serious about one of the two in these arguments...

Saying that (1) a platform is powerful enough to be competitive in spite of being a step lower in raw power and (2) giving an example of ways it's demonstrated it's ability to output good visuals isn't being inconsistent. Many people, including those with no vested interest in it, have made the same assertion that Ryse was the most technically impressive launch title on either platform. That doesn't mean there's not room to disagree, but neither does it make room for a categorical dismissal of that view.

 

[Piggus]

Exactly. The PS4 is simply much more powerful:

Xbone: 1.18 TF GPU (12 CUs) for games
Xbone: 768 Shaders
Xbone: 48 Texture units
Xbone: 16 ROPS
Xbone: 2 ACE/ 16 queues

PS4: 1.84TF GPU ( 18 CUs) for games + 56%
PS4: 1152 Shaders +50%
PS4: 72 Texture units +50%
PS4: 32 ROPS + 100%
PS4: 8 ACE/64 queues +300%

Of course --> "KILLZONE: Shadow Fall" does!
And it's a 1080p game.

The two bolded figures are extremely important. Wanna know why so many games on Xbone are sup-1080p? Lack of ROPs. AMD themselves recommends a GPU with 32 ROPs for 1080p gaming. Why MS decided to ship with HALF that is beyond me and it will ensure that the Xbone is ALWAYS at a significant spec disadvantage no matter how often Microsoft makes small optimizations like this. They can't add more ROPs.

The second figure is significant because it gives the PS4 a major advantage in GPGPU compute. As more games take advantage of GPGPU, the gap between the two systems will likely get wider (especially for first party games.)

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

PS4 vs. XB1 power war over:

https://twitter.com/rygorous/status/427907890301530112

Now theres a quote for a PS4 box if I ever saw one.

"PS4....35% creamier."

 

[RoboPlato]

PS4 vs. XB1 power war over:

https://twitter.com/rygorous/status/427907890301530112

What studio is this guy from?

The two bolded figures are extremely important. Wanna know why so many games on Xbone are sup-1080p? Lack of ROPs. AMD themselves recommends a GPU with 32 ROPs for 1080p gaming. Why MS decided to ship with HALF that is beyond me and it will ensure that the Xbone is ALWAYS at a significant spec disadvantage no matter how often Microsoft makes small optimizations like this. They can't add more ROPs.

The second figure is significant because it gives the PS4 a major advantage in GPGPU compute. As more games take advantage of GPGPU, the gap between the two systems will likely get wider (especially for first party games.)

ACE advantage is huge. Basically PS4 will be able to slot GPGPU stuff in better so it'll take less power from other processes while still having more power to spare.

 

[Goodacre0081]

PS4 vs. XB1 power war over:

https://twitter.com/rygorous/status/427907890301530112

cream, gravy, sauce. these depictions are great

 

[Biker19]

The two bolded figures are extremely important. Wanna know why so many games on Xbone are Sub-1080p? Lack of ROPs. AMD themselves recommends a GPU with 32 ROPs for 1080p gaming. Why MS decided to ship with HALF that is beyond me and it will ensure that the Xbone is ALWAYS at a significant spec disadvantage no matter how often Microsoft makes small optimizations like this. They can't add more ROPs.

The second figure is significant because it gives the PS4 a major advantage in GPGPU compute. As more games take advantage of GPGPU, the gap between the two systems will likely get wider (especially for first party games.)

I posted the same thing over a month & a half ago on what you just posted now (shown here), & some posters chewed me out on it like I didn't know what I was talking about.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

cream, gravy, sauce. these depictions are great

Everything is better with food analogies

 

[Gestault]

Everything is better with food analogies

My video cards are always al dente.

 

[JaggedSac]

Lol, Pretty good twitter exchange there. 2 days each for Bone and PS4, 5 days for Windows.

 

[Piggus]

I posted the same thing over a month & a half ago on what you just posted now (shown here), & some posters chewed me out on it like I didn't know what I was talking about.

I guess people see a game like Forza and say "Look! 1080p 60 fps! You're wrong!" but they fail to acknowledge the major sacrifices (no AA and pre-baked lighting) that had to be made to achieve that target. With only 16 ROPs 1080p is certainly achievable but it's far less efficient.

 

[SwiftDeath]

I guess people see a game like Forza and say "Look! 1080p 60 fps! You're wrong!" but they fail to acknowledge the major sacrifices (no AA and pre-baked lighting) that had to be made to achieve that target.

I think that Halo 5 will be most telling from a technical aspect. If it's sub-1080p that will say a lot, curious what AA and rendering method they will use

 

[oflaherty01]

10% seems like a lot. I don't know what kind of gains will be made, but hopefully its a few frames at least. Like others have said, it may help them get to 30fps at 1080 a little easier. For multi-platform games that is.

 

[Biker19]

I guess people see a game like Forza and say "Look! 1080p 60 fps! You're wrong!" but they fail to acknowledge the major sacrifices (no AA and pre-baked lighting) that had to be made to achieve that target. With only 16 ROPs 1080p is certainly achievable but it's far less efficient.

Hockeymac18 comes to mind, as he believes that true, Native 1080p can easily be achievable with a GPU that doesn't have at least 32 ROPs, LOL.

 

[Chobel]

I think that Halo 5 will be most telling from a technical aspect. If it's sub-1080p that will say a lot, curious what AA and rendering method they will use

It's hinted that Halo 5 is 900p for now.

 

[banjo5150]

The two bolded figures are extremely important. Wanna know why so many games on Xbone are sup-1080p? Lack of ROPs. AMD themselves recommends a GPU with 32 ROPs for 1080p gaming. Why MS decided to ship with HALF that is beyond me and it will ensure that the Xbone is ALWAYS at a significant spec disadvantage

IMO that chunk of esram on the die took up precious space so things were cut/ couldn't fit.