MLB Offseason '13-'14 |OT| Where the best fans live
- Thread starter Corran Horn
- Start date
better prenup it up
Edit: I wonder how Andrew McCutchen feels about his contract, leaving a lot of money on the table. With Freeman extension. McCutchen contract value is just 73rd in the majors.
santeesioux
Member
The Mariners are willing to give Cruz multiple years, lol.
...why is this "lol"?
Ninja Scooter
Member
Barves FO is usually tight with money, no? Does this mean they won't be able to resign Jason Heyward?
I'd like to see a little more cosisntent power from Freeman before deciding he's worth that much.
Edit: didn't realize Freeman was so young that seems much better of a deal. Was worried it could turn into an Adrian Gonzales type of contract but I'd be happy getting that many pre-30 years out of him.
I'd like to see a little more cosisntent power from Freeman before deciding he's worth that much.
Edit: didn't realize Freeman was so young that seems much better of a deal. Was worried it could turn into an Adrian Gonzales type of contract but I'd be happy getting that many pre-30 years out of him.
Who knows what the future holds, but uggla's contract will be gone soon and they aren't going to pay Kimbrel, so that helps.
Freddy Freeman is like 23 or 24 years old. The Braves will be paying for prime production, assuming his numbers hold and improve.
santeesioux
Member
Because it's the Mariners, they'll probably give him 5 years or something.
I don't see the problem with around four years. He is looking to rebuild his value, that is the only reason a one year deal makes sense. If you can lock him up while getting a discount it makes sense.
He hasn't been very good the last few seasons and is going to be 34. No way would I give him a 4 year deal.
Lee Chaolan
Member
Indians haven't done shit this offseason (except lose people) Yet I'm not all that concerned.
I probably should be though.
Their hands are tied with a vague annual salary cap of $94 million/year due to the dumb fucking tv deal that some nimrod signed a few years ago.
Thought he was younger than that. Either way, my point is still valid. If you're the Mariners, you don't just get him as a rental. There is no purpose to that.
Purple Cheeto
Member
Why would you lock up Nelson Cruz for more than 2 years? Anything over a year is basically criminal stupidity on the guy.
Dominican Power
Member
Good for Freddie.
Why wouldn't you?
Purple Cheeto
Member
Because he's:
1) Not very good at the thing he's known for (power hitting)
2) On the wrong side of 30
3) Coming off a PED suspension
4) Doesn't play defense
He's a mediocre right handed DH. Easily the cheapest, most fungible commodity in baseball.
There is a right side of 30? PED suspension is irrelevant for teams.
...he isn't a DH. Even if he was, who else do the Mariners have?
BFIB
Member
As much as I hate seeing PED users get other chances, he would be a fit for Seattle IMO. As long as its a low cost deal, which is all they can afford now.
yankeehater
Member
How is coming off a PED suspension not relevant? Teams are going to be worried that his numbers wont be as good, or that he will continue to use and get caught again. either one is bad for the team that signs him.
Yep. I'm not suggesting throwing the bank at him.
You're just talking about negotiation table points. If a team can get a good deal on him, he'll be on a majority of teams without an issue.
Purple Cheeto
Member
They have Logan Morrison, Justin Smoak and Corey Hart. Lomo and Smoak aren't good per se, but they also don't cost anything. Corey Hart is on a cheap, incentive laden deal so if he sucks he costs nothing, if he's good then he's worth whatever bonuses he gets.
The right side of 30 is under 30. Don't be obtuse. Paying players who are 30+ years old lots of money on long term deals almost never works out.
Nelson Cruz has put up -7.9, -3.3, -6.5 UZR/150 the last 3 years. He might not consider himself a DH, he's a disaster in the field at this point.
The PED suspension is relevant because this guy is a so called "power hitter" and now that he's clean the chance of decreased performance and greater time missed to injury is real.
Sure, take a 1 year flier on him. But anything more is insanity.
You see the new reporter.
http://www.boston.com/sports/touchi...d_sox_repor.html?camp=twit:tatb&dlvrit=845880
They are still looking for Dell's replacement.
Purple Cheeto
Member
I'm not saying teams don't give them out. I'm saying they virtually never work out and that Nelson Cruz is exactly the kind of player they don't work out for. Way to misread.
If they don't work out, they don't work out. For the type of team the Mariners are trying to construct, the Seahawks winning the Super Bowl, it just makes sense to grab him.
Cruz has seen his defense and offense ability dip in the last few years which eats away at his value. He is also has large home/away splits.
Home: .294/.356/.556, .389 wOBA/132 wRC+
Away: .242/.299/.435, .317 wOBA/95 wRC+
Now most guys are going to perform better in Arlington as it's a hitters park but Cruz has some nasty splits. He can't hit on the road and is going to go to a pitchers park.
Home: .294/.356/.556, .389 wOBA/132 wRC+
Away: .242/.299/.435, .317 wOBA/95 wRC+
Now most guys are going to perform better in Arlington as it's a hitters park but Cruz has some nasty splits. He can't hit on the road and is going to go to a pitchers park.
ouch
Purple Cheeto
Member
I just don't see how grabbing a mediocre DH type makes sense for a team that already has plenty of mediocre DH types.
They really need to find a way to turn Nick Franklin into a quality starting outfielder. Who is available in trade that would fit that I don't know.
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
She looks really intelligent and inquisitive.
HarryDemeanor
Member
The Braves are spending money? Oh no.
Oh and...
Oh and...
I wouldn't want Cruz desperately either but for a team that is now actually coming close to being a .500 team, it does make sense. Look at how much value guys like Beltran still carry because they've been able to string together good seasons after career-altering setbacks. If you can grab one of these low-value guys for a nice price and actually become competitive in the process, go for it!
Purple Cheeto
Member
Nelson Cruz might play Right Field for whoever ends up with him, that doesn't make him a right fielder. At this stage in his career is as a DH.
Last year Nelson Cruz was worth 11.3 RAR batting, -2.9 base running, -4.3 fielding, and had a positional adjustment of -5.4, if you throw in the replacement adjustment he came out to 13.8 RAR or 1.5 WAR. He was barely above league average as an outfielder and given that he's slower and older he's only gonna get worse out there.
Nelson Cruz doesn't want to be paid like a low value guy coming back from a set back. He wants to be paid like an established star. His market worth is about 1 year and $8million dollars, you could reasonably give him something like 2 years and $16mil total and not have it be a colossal waste of cash but once you go beyond that you're just wasting resources.
Comparing Nelson Cruz to Beltran is silly as well. Nelson Cruz has had 2 seasons in his entire career where he was worth more than 2 WAR and both of those seasons he had fielding numbers that are total outliers for the rest of his career.
Also I think a lot of you guys need to read up on something called "The Marginal Value of a Win":
http://blog.philbirnbaum.com/2010/04/marginal-value-of-win-in-baseball.html is a decent primer. The basic idea is that teams as far away as the Mariners should not be willing to pay as much for marginal upgrades as a teams who are closer to titles like the Dodgers or Tigers. That extra half war that Nelson Cruz might present over some AAAA guy in RF isn't really as valuable to the Mariners as an extra half win would be for say the Cardinals.
Dmncnby2k9
Banned
and finally Cuba wins a game. thanks to an error to third. still look bad,
Little Green Yoda
Member
+++
If the Mariners currently project to be a .500 team (or slightly below), they're going to need more than just a Nelson Cruz or two to sniff playoff contention. So unless they're making (a lot) more moves for a 2014 run, signing a guy like Cruz doesn't make a lot of sense. Plus whatever AAAA guy they throw out there presumably has more upside than Cruz beyond 2014 almost by default. See what your young guys can do at the major league level so you can better prepare for 2015 or 2016.
sf2fanatic
Member
Signed up for Gaf league.
Looks at roster... F!!!!!
Losing either Goldie or CarGo
Looks at roster... F!!!!!
Losing either Goldie or CarGo
damn
also
David O'Brien ‏@ajcbraves
Freeman contract is 8 yrs and $135 million, far and away largest in #Braves history
damn again
you DON'T. If you do, you might CURSE it!
You get him until the last theoretical year of his prime. and are only paying 16.8 million a year for a .387woba / 150wrc player. its kind of a steal.