Exactly this. PC gaming is about preference, exclusivity takes that away.
PC Gaming isn't locked in to one store, so why is the hate for Steam competitors?
- Thread starter Gowans
- Start date
Exactly this. PC gaming is about preference, exclusivity takes that away.
rudieboy77
Member
I never used the other functions of XBL and I do not use the other functions of Steam. I hit the bottom that says play that's about it. I understand your perspective but missing that stuff doesn't bother me.
Then shouldnt we also be complaining about all the Steam exclusive games?
Nastrodamous
Member
Valve games are exclusive on steam and nobody has a problem with it.
Its the simple fact that its on the ea platform, that people are whining about
jim-jam bongs
Member
The first part of this post is wrong, and even if the second part were true who gives a shit? EA are completely terrible, people should be commended for not buying their games.
oneils
Member
For PC, I think publishers should let their customers decide what platform they want to "store" their games on.
I'd love a system where I can buy a digital game from any platform and get some sort of universal key to "store" it on any other competing platform.
I buy a game on steam for 5 bucks, I get to put it in my steam, GOG, or origin library. I buy a game for 2 dollars on GOG, I get to store it on steam or origin.
etc.
I have no idea how complicated or realistic this is.
I'd love a system where I can buy a digital game from any platform and get some sort of universal key to "store" it on any other competing platform.
I buy a game on steam for 5 bucks, I get to put it in my steam, GOG, or origin library. I buy a game for 2 dollars on GOG, I get to store it on steam or origin.
etc.
I have no idea how complicated or realistic this is.
SwiftDeath
Member
It would be nice to have an industry standard key system that could be utilized in any platform that supports it.
I wish what you said was true but if Titanfall exclusively used Steamworks for their DRM, the backlash would be virtually non-existent.
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
Theres a lot of advantages to being the leader in a given space. Especially if people like you.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Acknowledging your bias does not give you the higher ground.
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Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
Hmm? What do you mean? I'm honestly not goading you.
Bias implies an unfair and arbitrary predilection for something.
kiunchbb
www.dictionary.com
Yep I usually forget what game I have. It is nice to have everything in one place. I don't hate other store client, I just wouldn't buy any games there since I prefer everything in one place. Missing a few exclusive isn't a big deal.
Who are these PC gamers that are hating on things like GOG and the Humble Store? Because that would count as news, most people I know buy games through those store fronts as well as Steam.
The problem is with bloated programs like Origin or uPlay. I don't have the patience for these things to spend a bunch of time loading up. Just as irritating as trying to do anything on a 360...
The problem is with bloated programs like Origin or uPlay. I don't have the patience for these things to spend a bunch of time loading up. Just as irritating as trying to do anything on a 360...
I lost access to games when Direct2Drive shut down, and I'm going to lose a few more when Games for Windows Live shuts down. Makes me a bit weary of getting games from other stores, as I feel pretty confident Steam will be around for the foreseeable future. DRM-free stores like GoG are an exception to this.
Origin takes no longer than Steam to start up.
uPlay though can be slow if it has to update but it's not all that often it does that.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Yea not even close. The entire design of how the Steam cards function is manipulative to the extreme.
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Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
People spend money on a lot sillier things than cards to craft sweet badges to represent their favorite game (and their dedication to it) on the Gaming centric social network they use everyday.
PedroLumpy
Member
Well of course, that's because more people like Steam. People may not like EA's platform, but it's the exclusivity that's making them have to choose. Thus again, exclusivity is bad, not necessarily Origin itself.
Same as above, more people like Steam.
Version 3.0
Member
Well, there's a compelling argument. By the laws on the books, Valve is committing a crime by selling us a product that we don't own and can't re-sell. It's only because those consumer rights laws are older than digital distribution, combined with some confusing precedent over productivity software, that the laws don't clearly cover this scenario.
Please, don't give me the "license" baloney, that's been to court a long time ago, and it was ruled that a licensed copy is no different than any other physical good, and that there's no need for any type of permission from the original seller to re-sell such goods. Again, it's only the difference between a physical copy and a downloaded copy that allows them to circumvent First Sale Doctrine and other laws.
Someday, the plodding legal system will have to deal with digital ownership. Indeed, Valve has already been in court over these issues in Germany and the EU. They've updated the TOS to try and avoid class action lawsuits here is the US - they know this will be an issue at some point.
Until then, I'm sure they're glad you're blindly on their side.
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Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
Valve gives the option to publishers and developers to forgo Digital Rights Management while still maintaining the benefits of the platform though. Right? Do they? That post implies they don't.
I find Origin bothersome... Even though people like to say that adding non-steam games are easy to add..its not true when it comes to origin games. Most of the time origin ask me to enter my user name and password which for some reason it doesn't like to save. I mean trying to play Fifa on steam goes something like this:
- Enter Big Picture Mode
- Launch Origin ( you cant add origin titles.. only the program)
- Enter user info and pass
- Find and launch game
- Press play on the setup menu
- Play
iNvid02
Member
the discussions during uplays conception probably went like this
and origins
origin more like a well fuck you we're gonna make our own service for all our games, and its exclusive. that DLC cut is gonna come back and bite you in the ass.
but whatever, im not so heavily invested in one that using the others becomes an obstacle.
and origins
uplay seems like a push into providing all this extra shit for thieir games across all platforms but they just couldnt see it worthwhile to create seperate uplay-free versions for steam.
origin more like a well fuck you we're gonna make our own service for all our games, and its exclusive. that DLC cut is gonna come back and bite you in the ass.
but whatever, im not so heavily invested in one that using the others becomes an obstacle.
Version 3.0
Member
Maybe you should get those cases re-opened, then. Clearly the judges weren't aware of this.
SwiftDeath
Member
Agree with the general sentiment. The US at least needs a real re-working of our digital rights by law. The EU at least has it as a law somewhere that you should be able to resell a license even though it isn't enacted [should be enacted though]
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Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
You're the one talking about court cases here. You said the option Valve gives to developers and publishers to opt-out of their DRM mechanism isn't a grand enough gesture. While it absolutely is. Theres not some deal with the devil here where they've monopolized the market and are forcing harmful policies on developers whos very livelihood depends on whether or not their product gets on Valve's platform.
Thats not whats happening here. But then again your tag is proof enough I shouldn't have engaged you.
Vinegar Joe
Member
Exactly. The law is at fault for letting them get away with it, but Valve are the ones taking advantage of it...and in turn us.
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Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
If you guys want to enter a discussion about football expecting a debate about how the rules are wrong thats one thing.
I think a lot of people, myself included would be ALL FOR new laws giving consumers more rights to the digital content they purchase.
Though, that would render this whole thread pointless because in that world we could buy from Origin and use Steam for our social stuff.
I think a lot of people, myself included would be ALL FOR new laws giving consumers more rights to the digital content they purchase.
Though, that would render this whole thread pointless because in that world we could buy from Origin and use Steam for our social stuff.
Version 3.0
Member
I didn't say there's "some deal with the devil", nor did I demonize Valve. I just said having an opt out doesn't absolve them of all responsibility. It's Valve's TOS that specifies you can't re-sell purchase or your account. It's Valve's store, and service, and it's Valve enforcing all policies, and if they turn out to be against the law, it's going to be Valve that will have to fix it all, not individual developers.
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Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
Your problem isn't with Valve or any other company. I appreciate your capacity to perceive this from a human rights standpoint but thats a different and MUCH LARGER issue than using crappy software to launch a shoot 'em up everyone is gonna forget about by next summer. Accusing people participating in a discussion about preferred software as blindly following a corporation out of ignorance is bullshit. You wanna hash it out about digital ownership? Go do it. I'll be there probably to back you up once I choke down your offensive and small attitude towards those you think fit into some great abstract otherness of disagreement.
In mean the time I'm going appreciate what Steam does for me on a daily basis and how its contributed to my hobby and made my quality of life better.
jediyoshi
Member
But the conversation is so much more fun when battle lines are drawn.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
If the conversation were really about exclusivity what about all the games that are Steam exclusive? These folks making noise about "Titanfall exclusivity" arent aghast with horror at the hundreds or thousands of Steam exclusive games.
jediyoshi
Member
It's simple, more people have Steam. It's up to you to conflate that to unfair favoritism. Uplay at least finds the middle ground by forcing their service on top of Steam.
Broder Salsa
Banned
Don't hate other services at all. I hate the services that are shit though, which is most of everything except Steam and gog. With the rest having as little of the market they do, you also worry about them shutting down, like games for windows that piece of shit.
I use Origin at least a few times a week for Fifa and it's terrible software. The friendlist doesn't work half the time, it crashes and the sales are usually pretty damn bad.
I use Origin at least a few times a week for Fifa and it's terrible software. The friendlist doesn't work half the time, it crashes and the sales are usually pretty damn bad.
CambriaRising
Member
Sometimes the competition is just that inferior.
Version 3.0
Member
You're the one who used the "absolutely" in defense of Valve. If you take a look, I was pretty complimentary of Steam up above. I use it and like it - but it's not perfect. Stop crying. Just admit it's not perfect, and we'll be in complete agreement.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Well its definitely fanaticism if people who were interested in a game swear a game off once they find out its not on their platform of choice. If this were a discussion between Sony and MS with people making posts like they did in the Titanfall thread, would things have gone the same way? Probably not. And even then, the fanboyism is even more odious here because the potential gamers already own the hardware. They dont need to buy another console but instead utilize a free launcher. To me thats fanaticism and port begging at its most ridiculous.
Just want to clear a couple things up.
This advantage doesn't really exist. New PC games have an MSRP just like console games. Just like you can buy a PC game from Steam, Origin, or GMG, you can buy a console game from Gamestop, Best Buy, or Amazon.
This is not what has kept prices down. Of course, competition is a part of keeping prices down, but this is true for all platforms. PC games tend to be cheaply attainable compared to console games for one simple reason... because unlike console games, they have no resale value.
As for preference of Steam, I agree it's dumb. Either all invasive DRM is okay or none of it is okay. I personally appreciate what Uplay has done. Their client starts and stops with the game, so it's essentially just built in to each game that uses it. I wish all DRM was like this.
This advantage doesn't really exist. New PC games have an MSRP just like console games. Just like you can buy a PC game from Steam, Origin, or GMG, you can buy a console game from Gamestop, Best Buy, or Amazon.
This is not what has kept prices down. Of course, competition is a part of keeping prices down, but this is true for all platforms. PC games tend to be cheaply attainable compared to console games for one simple reason... because unlike console games, they have no resale value.
As for preference of Steam, I agree it's dumb. Either all invasive DRM is okay or none of it is okay. I personally appreciate what Uplay has done. Their client starts and stops with the game, so it's essentially just built in to each game that uses it. I wish all DRM was like this.
Maybe they're like you and just don't want even more DRM on their PC? Of course that doesn't make it any less silly, I'm just brainstorming here.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
But they are not like me. If they were principled in that manner they would not be using Steam at all and find both a problem. Instead they are not so much gamers but cheerleaders for their corporate team.
MrCunningham
Member
I really have no problem with most of these. But to me, it really feels like needless additional integration, it`s a bit annoying to load up a game in steam, then have some additional games for windows live feature pop up and ask for a secondary name and password... the idea of client within another client is just annoying. In GTA4`s case, if you bought the game on Steam, it required a Steam account, GFWL account and a Rockstar social club account. Three different accounts for one game.
Origin isn't that bad, I have given the service shit in the past, but well... the client itself is actually decent. EA as a company has been rather infuriating though. Uplay is a terrible integration all around.
GOG has no real client to speak of, though I think there are a few third party ones. But GOG is just a great store all around. I also have to give credit to Humble Bundle, they have great management for all your Steam/ Origin keys. Amazon has been great too, I have purchased a lot of games from them.
I don;t have any issues with independent in game launchers either.
Overall I have no issues with using other clients outside of Steam, but it is always nice to have everything organized in one place.
Origin isn't that bad, I have given the service shit in the past, but well... the client itself is actually decent. EA as a company has been rather infuriating though. Uplay is a terrible integration all around.
GOG has no real client to speak of, though I think there are a few third party ones. But GOG is just a great store all around. I also have to give credit to Humble Bundle, they have great management for all your Steam/ Origin keys. Amazon has been great too, I have purchased a lot of games from them.
I don;t have any issues with independent in game launchers either.
Overall I have no issues with using other clients outside of Steam, but it is always nice to have everything organized in one place.
jediyoshi
Member
Are you actually questioning the existence of people that fall into every single category of perspective possible here? What are you looking for exactly and why does it affect any more logical explanation than what's been given?
SwiftDeath
Member
This argument holds little water if said people would be willing to buy said game if it came to a different service like GOG or GMG instead of steam but wouldn't buy it on origin because their problem with it is infact with origin itself and not that it's not on steam. I for one with much prefer a DRM-free copy of the game over a steam copy whatever it is. How does that make me fanatical now?
Version 3.0
Member
Well, yes and no. PC DD games have, essentially, a lower floor before they're selling at a loss. In fact, with enough volume, they could be sold at almost nothing and still turn a profit.
That's not true of retail games. They have a unit cost associated with them, and it's a high one - roughly 80% ($48 on a $60 game). So they have a good reason to keep those prices up. That doesn't mean a game will never be a dollar, of course, but they do need to turn a profit on the whole.
And MSRP has a floor as well, because publishers, who sometimes reimburse retailers when they do an MSRP change, pay their license fee up front, rather than at time of purchase like DD games. So Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony take their 10 bucks a pop and run, meaning MSRP almost never goes below $20. On the DD side, it's quite common.