PC Gaming isn't locked in to one store, so why is the hate for Steam competitors?
- Thread starter Gowans
- Start date
Mammoth Jones
Member
I don't want multiple PC games in multiple ecosystems with their own login/security/policies.
CastleRybread
Member
For the most part I don't care about the service that the game comes on the big three (uplay, origin, and steam). Don't care for the gamefly and the GFWL clients, but for as much as I don't care for them, I have bought games for them.
When it comes right down to it competition is for the best. The last few steam sales highlight this. The last few steam sales have been downright putrid. Amazon and a number of other competitors have had significantly cheaper games than steam has had during their big sales in the weeks prior to the summer/fall/winter sales.
When it comes right down to it competition is for the best. The last few steam sales highlight this. The last few steam sales have been downright putrid. Amazon and a number of other competitors have had significantly cheaper games than steam has had during their big sales in the weeks prior to the summer/fall/winter sales.
The problem is that it's a game that is only being released on one service and not many.
I don't necessarily hate other services, I just hate when PC games aren't made available to all services (and yes, more specifically Steam, which I use).
However if one were to complain about Half-Life 2 not being on GOG I wouldn't refute them. I also can't be mad at Titanfall/Mass Effect 3 for only being available on Origin because that is their publisher's platform.
However my lack of desire to use these other serviceds IS a factor in my purchasing decision, and I think that is reasonable. I'm still waiting for them to finally try and capitalize on old releases like Mass Effect 3 by putting them on Steam, which would be when I purchase it.
Also geez oh Pete can people please spell/grammar check before making thread titles. I'm assuming "the" in the title is supposed to be "there."
I don't necessarily hate other services, I just hate when PC games aren't made available to all services (and yes, more specifically Steam, which I use).
However if one were to complain about Half-Life 2 not being on GOG I wouldn't refute them. I also can't be mad at Titanfall/Mass Effect 3 for only being available on Origin because that is their publisher's platform.
However my lack of desire to use these other serviceds IS a factor in my purchasing decision, and I think that is reasonable. I'm still waiting for them to finally try and capitalize on old releases like Mass Effect 3 by putting them on Steam, which would be when I purchase it.
Also geez oh Pete can people please spell/grammar check before making thread titles. I'm assuming "the" in the title is supposed to be "there."
5% to Valve, 10% to the developers, each rounded up to the nearest cent.
What makes the arguments BS justifications? I don't see anyone saying that Valve added trading cards with no profit motive whatsoever, just that it's not a "pure scam" and some people find it interesting and worthwhile.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
Oh god it was so painful when that money was sucked out of me.
I buy where it's cheaper. The community features/achievements/cards are not a decision factor for me. They're just there. I immediately dispose of the cards as soon as I get them.
uPlay though is a broken service. I bought Far Cry 3, Blood Dragon and Might and Magic X on it because of extremely advantageous prices but the setup process before being able to play the games was the most intrusive/obscure I have experienced in any store/service. Patches over patches with little feedback on successful install, messages asking to restart the computer after installation of each patch (I ignored this), rewards of special edition releases not available to download with non-informative error messages, etc. Once you have the game running it's fine, but the process to reach that point is far from optimal.
GOG is a wonderful store/service. No fuss.
Gamersgate, Get Games, Amazon, Humble Bundle are all fine stores and I use them very frequently. Even more than the proper Steam Store. Most of the games bought in those stores have Steam DRM though. Steam Store I use only for seasonal sales to very specific games that I want.
uPlay though is a broken service. I bought Far Cry 3, Blood Dragon and Might and Magic X on it because of extremely advantageous prices but the setup process before being able to play the games was the most intrusive/obscure I have experienced in any store/service. Patches over patches with little feedback on successful install, messages asking to restart the computer after installation of each patch (I ignored this), rewards of special edition releases not available to download with non-informative error messages, etc. Once you have the game running it's fine, but the process to reach that point is far from optimal.
GOG is a wonderful store/service. No fuss.
Gamersgate, Get Games, Amazon, Humble Bundle are all fine stores and I use them very frequently. Even more than the proper Steam Store. Most of the games bought in those stores have Steam DRM though. Steam Store I use only for seasonal sales to very specific games that I want.
Because Steam is the Gold Standard and its two main "competitors" launched far too late. I understand why Ubi and EA launched their own digital distribution platforms, but the few actually interesting games each year from them isn't worth the hassle of managing two additional accounts and installing two more clients for me. If a game isn't on Steam I most probably won't buy it. Indie games might have been an exception, but since the introduction of Greenlight (no matter how flawed the vote system might be) all Indie games worth their salt are on Steam anyways.
So tl; dr go Steam or go home.
So tl; dr go Steam or go home.
Never mind the fact the making a game exclusive anyway, isn't competition at all. How are price wars supposed to occur this way?
The question is this. How many different programs do you want that do the same thing? Personally I would prefer to have all my games in one place, where my friends are. I also like the fact Valve will probably never go under, meaning my games are safe. Playing a game on Origin means I am disconnected from my friends on steam. Now if I could successfully add these games into steam I'd be fine with that but many games don't allow the steam overlay to work properly like the blizzard launcher or battlefield.
Also in my opinion competition only helps the consumer if they are getting a bad deal. Steam has offered me incredible value so competition isn't necessary. If you look at cell phone/internet packages, the pricing is ridiculous and that's where there needs to be better competition. But here on steam, I'm in heaven.
Also in my opinion competition only helps the consumer if they are getting a bad deal. Steam has offered me incredible value so competition isn't necessary. If you look at cell phone/internet packages, the pricing is ridiculous and that's where there needs to be better competition. But here on steam, I'm in heaven.
Vinegar Joe
Member
I'm obviously in the minority, but I don't like having all my games on a single, easily revoked account. For me ownership rights are more important than convenience, so I will always buy DRM free if possible. And even when it isn't possible, I'll go for the non-steam option if there is one.
One thing that I would urge everyone to do, in the case where it's an option, is to buy directly from the developer site. Every single time I did this and it was a game that was available on Steam the developer sent a complimentary steam key plus a DRM free version of the game. And the money goes directly to the creator.
I can get behind this
for a forum with such a high concentration of "it's all about the games, i just play games i want to play" drive-by shitposts people seem to rally behind competition between platforms more than between games
lots of them use the humble store widget which does give the developer a higher cut and has easy steam integration
so yeah, seconded
Kadayi
Banned
Agreed. When people start talking about eschewing X game because it happens to be attached to Y client you really have to wonder how invested they are in playing the game in the first place.
Personally I'm all about the games. I don't really give a damn about the software it may come with as it works. Also amused at the people talking about bloatware, as if Steam wasn't the worst culprit in that regard.
But in what way are they interesting or worthwhile? The artwork in those cards is usually dull or easily found elsewhere (not to mention you can see them without paying for them), the Steam interface is slow and unresponsive so it takes forever to browse them. The cards have no purpose other than boosting your XP and Steam level and I don't think anyone felt any need of having a Steam level before Valve introduced those pointless systems.
what's bloated about steam? the client never takes up more than 1% CPU time and 40MB RAM for me. the interface other than the library is just a web client so if it's running slowly it might just be your connection to their servers.
Steam level allows for a bigger friends list and extra customization of your profile, two things people were happy about because the popularity and usefulness of Steam's community and social features are growing all the time. The badges themselves can also be displayed on your profile to show what games you're interested in.
The cards also serve the purpose of letting you get some of a game's purchase price back in store credit. One of my friends has bought a few cards and sold a lot, adding $60+ to his Steam wallet over the course of a few months.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
EA have has security breaches and required me to change my email and password combinations. More than once too, IIRC.
Ubisoft have had security breaches and required me to change my email and password combinations. They also unbeknown to me installed a web browser plugin that was inherently unsafe as it would run untrusted code just by calling a uplay extension.
My Steam account has never been compromised.
I've had it 10 years now.
Even if it was, without access to my verified email as well, nothing can be accessed thanks to Steam Guard.
Ubisoft have had security breaches and required me to change my email and password combinations. They also unbeknown to me installed a web browser plugin that was inherently unsafe as it would run untrusted code just by calling a uplay extension.
My Steam account has never been compromised.
I've had it 10 years now.
Even if it was, without access to my verified email as well, nothing can be accessed thanks to Steam Guard.
So artificially limiting options so that you spend money on pointless cards somehow makes those cards worthwhile and interesting? You're not making any sense.
You don't need to spend money. It's perfectly viable to trade cards for other cards and complete badges that way.
And yeah, some people find trading and collecting Steam cards worthwhile and interesting for the same reason as they might be interested in real life collectables. My friend also had fun tracking card prices can planning when to sell off the various cards he'd acquired to make a profit.
SwiftDeath
Member
I'm basically of the same mind. I simply don't have faith in EA and thus Origin ensuring my digital rights long-term for things I purchase. That's important to me so I simply don't want to buy any game digitally from Origin. I prefer GOG the most followed by steam and maybe GMG depending.
It's a huge pain in the ass to do so, and being pestered by people to trade some stupid cards got annoying very quickly.
Real life collectibles typically have some utility outside being collectibles, eg. coins, stamps, cars etc. Whereas this card trading system on Steam was exclusively devised so that people spend money on it.
not psycho
Member
It really comes down to only one thing: trust.
EA and Ubisoft have been extremely untrustworthy (security vulnerability in their programs that leave you open to hackers, getting hacked themselves, SecuROM, etc). Sony installed secret rootkits. There is no mystery about nobody trusting them.
So far, people trust Steam not to be overtly malicious like their competitors, and they trust that their games will continue to be available.
Even with DRM-free games, there is the idea that the source of the download could go down, and your hard drive could fail. So it is still a matter of trust, and Steam has the most (personally I will buy whichever is cheaper between Steam or DRM-free, but will pay extra to get both a Steam key and a DRM-free version).
EA and Ubisoft have been extremely untrustworthy (security vulnerability in their programs that leave you open to hackers, getting hacked themselves, SecuROM, etc). Sony installed secret rootkits. There is no mystery about nobody trusting them.
So far, people trust Steam not to be overtly malicious like their competitors, and they trust that their games will continue to be available.
Even with DRM-free games, there is the idea that the source of the download could go down, and your hard drive could fail. So it is still a matter of trust, and Steam has the most (personally I will buy whichever is cheaper between Steam or DRM-free, but will pay extra to get both a Steam key and a DRM-free version).
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Used stamps and non-legal tender coins have zero utility outside of collection.
And collectors never spend money to acquire things to add to their collection? So Valve gets 5% of the trade value. The highest card value is around 37$. Golly, look at Valve scamming people out of 1$.
To elaborate further on Mrs Wendi's posts. I was pretty pissed when I brought physical copies of games and I was required to launch them through steam.
It was the only reason I stopped buying disks for PCs. If I brought a disk back then I didn't expect the game not to be working without steam DRM even when the disk is in the drive.
A lot of people allowing Valve monopolizing digital downloads can have unintended consequences. I was less then pleased when Valve changed terms of service barring my power to file a lawsuit or arbitration with a group of people. I became more proactive about buying games on Gog even if they cost more because of that.
I guess you weren't around for the discussions pc gamers had about Steam during the first 2 years it launched. It was all about DRM back then. Steam offers more than that now but that's how they started. As a DRM platform devs could trust and we could tolerate.
Used stamps served their purpose at one point. And yes, there are things manufactured so that people could collect them. Entirely pointless if you ask me.
SwiftDeath
Member
How does the existence of the steam trading system negatively impact people that don't want to use it? Why can't you just ignore it if you detest it so?
a) it's a pointless system no matter how you slice it
b) even if you don't want to have anything to do with it, you're still pestered about trading cards so that someone else can complete his/her badges
TekGryphon
Banned
I separate this issue into two tiers - convenience and consumer consciousness.
Some platforms I don't use because they're simply not convenient. If I can buy the same Baldur's Gate 2: EE or Fallout 2 title from Steam or Good Old Games, I'll do it on Steam because its significantly more convenient both from an organization standpoint and from a community standpoint.
Then we have things like Origin. I don't even get to the point of considering Origin from a convenience angle because I reject them before that because I'm an informed consumer.
EA is a terrible company. Not only do they make terrible decisions that ruin IPs, as an industry leader they push terrible practices that influence the market in negative ways. They are a constant never-ending campaign of anti-consumer policies like DRM, and anti-intellectual game design principles that assume their customers are drunken frat boys that can't be trusted to perform the simplest tasks without a hallway, an objective marker, and a pop-up instruction.
I don't use Origin because I reject rewarding terrible companies with money.
Some platforms I don't use because they're simply not convenient. If I can buy the same Baldur's Gate 2: EE or Fallout 2 title from Steam or Good Old Games, I'll do it on Steam because its significantly more convenient both from an organization standpoint and from a community standpoint.
Then we have things like Origin. I don't even get to the point of considering Origin from a convenience angle because I reject them before that because I'm an informed consumer.
EA is a terrible company. Not only do they make terrible decisions that ruin IPs, as an industry leader they push terrible practices that influence the market in negative ways. They are a constant never-ending campaign of anti-consumer policies like DRM, and anti-intellectual game design principles that assume their customers are drunken frat boys that can't be trusted to perform the simplest tasks without a hallway, an objective marker, and a pop-up instruction.
I don't use Origin because I reject rewarding terrible companies with money.
Set your inventory to private.
TekGryphon
Banned
I have never once had someone send me a trade request for anything unless I gave them my ID and asked them to contact me.
I think your issue is related to user error. Do you set your Facebook profile to public and then complain when you get random shit from everyone?
As has been said already, most collecting (or recreation in general) can be viewed as pointless. If it provides value to people, and it's not hurting anyone, who are you to judge?
Uh, sell them then? It takes at most a second to click through and you get some money that makes the next game you buy cheaper. Hardly the most oppressive system around.
DarkJedi24
Member
PC owners enjoy a console experience from their desktop. Steam right now provides the closest thing to a unified console experience on PC, but with a good library and frequent sales. Though arguably if Origin and Uplay are considered bloatware Steam is no different, its just a more mature form of bloatware.
It's not pointless. It's free value creation. Sell you cards for change, or participate in the trading game. Or just ignore it. At no point are you forced to use it for anything, so why complain?
TekGryphon
Banned
Right, and in the last decade they've moved from being a "DRM platform devs could trust and we could tolerate" to a "high value sales platform that devs trust and love and we trust and love".
Origin and uPlay, meanwhile, started out as bad "me-to" proprietary DRM channels from terrible companies and remain the same.
Thanks, I was not aware of such option.
No, I have 2 friends who are deeply invested in those badges for whatever reason.
Just like all those scammy free-to-play games. I'm against exploiting people.
Vinegar Joe
Member
You mean policies like revoking access to your entire catalogue of games because of a single failed transaction for £1.50?
Steam is equally draconian when it comes to consumer rights.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
More clients are the equivalent of extra browser tool bars.
Then maybe your real problem is pushy friends. I like to collect the badges, but I've never asked any of my friends for any of theirs because I don't want to be "that guy".
Still, just sell them though. Get some money for cheaper games. Seems like a win for you.
I don't understand the unbridled love, and free pass that Steam, and Valve get. The client is constantly getting in my way with adverts, and notices, and is just annoying all around. I don't want achievements, friend non-sense, or a program that I have to run over my game. If I could, I'd get everything on GOG as there is no client, just the game with no DRM.