IlGialloMondadori
Member
This is one of the best posts I've read in a while.
Digital Foundry: Donkey Kong Bananza - Nintendo Switch 2
Robb
Gold Member
I really hope it does well, DK deserves more love!
That wasn't a point, just an example of how non-TAA solution looks like. Though it may fare better in a game with ps2 level geometry complexity
winjer
Member
Yes, SMAA 2X has more pixel crawl.
But TAA has disocclusion artifacts, blurry image quality and temporal artifacts.
You are trading one simple problem, for tree major problems.
Kilau
Gold Member
First the Hunter Schaeffer snub and now this?!? Nintendo committing genocide!
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
IlGialloMondadori
Member
"Let me sell this system after I play banger after banger after banger out of protest."
Like just play the games and chill out.
LordOcidax
Member
Above 10 million is locked, DK is going to be a evergreen title.
LordOcidax
Member
Kacho
Member
Jesus the FSR is hideousSaw it today in motion and picture quality is nice.
LordOcidax
Member
Some people are going to complain always… especially the ones that have no plans on buying the game. Even in the YT 4K videos the game IQ looks really good.
Last edited:
IlGialloMondadori
Member
I swear to god some of these losers would be happy running benchmarks on a data centre rather than playing games.Ohh A 91 score game, let me sell this crap.
Ogbert
Member
It's the old double buffering v-sync issue.
They'd be better off just disabling v-sync across the board, although that would obviously impact handheld.
Anyway. Game looks fucking brilliant.
LordOcidax
Member
The majority only have a PC capable of run Snes emulators
.
tkscz
Member
Boy this is the most "I didn't actually watch the video" post there is so far.
The game runs 80% at 60fps locked, even when explosions and particles are all over the place. Even in the video they said it doesn't drop often, how the hell you get struggling badly from that?
They pointed out the issue is the double vsync in specific places causing it to go from locked 60 to locked 30 but only those places. Camera mode also drops to 30 but it's also camera mode.
onnextflix5
Member
This game don't even look like a cross gen game , just looks like a switch 1 game ported over to switch 2 in a few months. So how frequent are the frame drops?
, just looks like a switch 1 game ported over to switch 2 in a few months. So how frequent are the frame drops?So given that handheld at 1080p performs better than docked at 1200p how does docked fair if switch 2 output is set to 1080p on a system level? Does it claw back any of those drops complained about?
It's the kind of question I would have expected explored in the past, whereas now all some people care about is maximum resolution... there may not be a quality vs performance mode option but does changing the max resolution on the switch 2 itself change the performance, because for those extra 120p I'd happily drop down to 1080p
It's the kind of question I would have expected explored in the past, whereas now all some people care about is maximum resolution... there may not be a quality vs performance mode option but does changing the max resolution on the switch 2 itself change the performance, because for those extra 120p I'd happily drop down to 1080p
SILKYSMOOTH30FPS
Member
Over a generation behind competition. From gen to gen, as clueless as ever when it comes to tech. Like, i can't even tell if this was made for a "next gen" system that was just released, or the game came out in 2018 for the Switch.
Last edited:
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Dr Bass
Member
The only people who are clueless are those that think any of this matters whatsoever to the game buying public. The game will do great, and millions of people will have a lot of fun. Which is, you know, the actual point of video games.
Last edited:
kevboard
Member
there is no competition. they are the only handheld console on the market
Also in a boss fight the structures falling or damaged runs something like 3FPS.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
They have literally been a generation behind the competition going back to the Wii. They just dont care.
They also bowed out of the console industry in 2017 with the switch. And for the last five years were literally 2 generations behind. They have given up trying to improve graphics and are ok making handheld games. The hardware is actually very capable and should be able to do uncharted or batman ak graphics at 60 fps, but they just dont want to.
El Sabroso
Member
hope in next game from that team they can improve the work they have done for the engine, wouldn't call impossible to remove the double buffer system but is somewhat a method they still prefer for the framepace consistency although it has a high price to pay and not so cool where it seems to be paying it off from what the review has shown.
the FSR1 use is still weird but again, due to how the engine works dunno if they had a frame budget enough to implement the nintenDLSS
the idea that John talks about using the 120Hz container for 60FPS game might be something the devs have not experimented yet at least with the devkits for NS2 at least so I still doubt about the game changing some of those features but as I said cannot call it impossible, but yeah just really hard that they change at all in a future
the FSR1 use is still weird but again, due to how the engine works dunno if they had a frame budget enough to implement the nintenDLSS
the idea that John talks about using the 120Hz container for 60FPS game might be something the devs have not experimented yet at least with the devkits for NS2 at least so I still doubt about the game changing some of those features but as I said cannot call it impossible, but yeah just really hard that they change at all in a future
LordOcidax
Member
That's fine if they focus on other things and not in graphics but at least release the game optimized and polished for the hardware. Not half assed optimized game or the bare minimum. Nintendo just don't care. See Pokemon how it released on Switch 1 and how much it sold that's the best example. So far from what i have seen Nintendo get a free pass on how well the game runs on their hardware or on the technical side.
Last edited:
Business
Member
I'm old enough to remember playing N64 games at stupidly low framerates and not even noticing. Sure we all wish games ran perfectly 100% of the time but this modern obsession with frame counting and zooming 400% in search for image quality flaws is stupid as hell and it's only to the detriment of oneself.
Last edited:
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
It really does make me wonder what it's like working at Nintendo in a more junior position. There's no way that someone didn't think to themselves at some point "ya know, maybe we should implement this DLSS tech that's infinitely better than FSR", but were they just not able to speak up for some reason?
Like, I don't doubt that the lead director/designer might not be super hip to the more technical aspects of rendering (it is Nintendo, after all), but surely SOMEONE on the dev team would have brought this up, right?
There must be some reason why they're using FSR instead of DLSS beyond standard Nintendo incompetence. I wonder if their ActionLibrary engine just doesn't support DLSS, and they never allocated the resources to make that happen. Which would be stupid, but I could see that being the case. Or maybe the frame time cost with utilization of their in-house engine was too expensive.
Maybe they when they started development, they put FSR in the planning document, and there's a culture of not altering the original proposal or something dumb like that… Either way, there's gotta be a reason, and I'm curious as to what it is.
In any case, the game still looks fantastic. I hope the frame drops don't hurt the experience too much. They seem way less frequent and prolonged than something like Echoes of Wisdom, so at least that's good.
Like, I don't doubt that the lead director/designer might not be super hip to the more technical aspects of rendering (it is Nintendo, after all), but surely SOMEONE on the dev team would have brought this up, right?
There must be some reason why they're using FSR instead of DLSS beyond standard Nintendo incompetence. I wonder if their ActionLibrary engine just doesn't support DLSS, and they never allocated the resources to make that happen. Which would be stupid, but I could see that being the case. Or maybe the frame time cost with utilization of their in-house engine was too expensive.
Maybe they when they started development, they put FSR in the planning document, and there's a culture of not altering the original proposal or something dumb like that… Either way, there's gotta be a reason, and I'm curious as to what it is.
In any case, the game still looks fantastic. I hope the frame drops don't hurt the experience too much. They seem way less frequent and prolonged than something like Echoes of Wisdom, so at least that's good.
Senua
Member
You're in a digital foundry thread moaning about the critiquing of the games technical shortcomings. Get a grip.Stop having fun the game drops to 30fps and uses FSR1
Doctor Hades
Member
I can't wait to play Donkey Kong Bananza at a locked 1200p and a stable 60 fps...
.... on Switch 3!!!
Well, it happened with Super Mario Odyssey, right,. which was a fine game on Switch but definitely had similar issues in the image quality and framerate department.
.... on Switch 3!!!
Well, it happened with Super Mario Odyssey, right,. which was a fine game on Switch but definitely had similar issues in the image quality and framerate department.
LordOcidax
Member
Some dips and the use of fsr 1 doesn't make the game "unplayable" like some people here are pretending… for a reason have a 91. 99% runs at locked 60.
Last edited:
Senua
Member
Who has said it's unplayable? People are rightly baffled at the use of double buffer v-sync and a extremely outdated upscaling technology.
SILKYSMOOTH30FPS
Member
Nobody said that it won't sell. It'll sell a shitload. This kind of destructability kinda reminds me of minecraft, and kids are all over this shit. But from my point of view, i am looking at what's on offer, and this is not a game i would ever even consider buying the Switch 2 for.
LordOcidax
Member
Did you missed the first page of this thread? BTW, the game still looking amazing despite the use of FSR 1.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
No one expect you like this game or any game for that matter.
Last edited:
Senua
Member
No I didn't miss it, who said it was "unplayable"? And we have different definitions of amazing I guess.
SILKYSMOOTH30FPS
Member
Come on. You just wait until the day comes, and i glaze a game so hard that you will be amazed. You just need to wait, it might take a while.
Kataploom
Gold Member
Game has:
- Amazing fully destructible environments based on voxels
- High quality characters models and animations
- Very polished gameplay mechanics using a combination of destruction, physics and platforming
People here: "B... But why FSR1?! Console has DLSS they should have just pressed the DLSS button!!!1!"
LOL that's not how it works, the game started as a Switch 1 game using Mario Odyssey engine and almost no Nintendo game had any form of TAA, which means it's not just importing a DLL and calling a function in the code, but they'd have to actually implement motion vectors in the rendering pipeline before they can even use DLSS or whatever, FSR 1 is a spatial upscaler which means is doesn't need motion vectors, it's also not using FSR alone SMAA as well.
And I agree with
Buggy Loop
and
winjer
about TAA probably not being a good choice for this game (and probably many Nintendo games) due to the amount of action, dynamic elements, particles, etc. So that's probably a big IF when they consider using DLSS in the future... Tho Switch 2 DLSS is very good for motion clarity so I'm pretty sure 2nd wave games and onwards will make use of it.
So no, having a DLSS capable machine doesn't automatically make DLSS be implemented in games, the engine has to be prepared for it and it's not a simple task in an ongoing and late stage project, considering all the other stuff that may be depending on current implementations of whatever, so next game is probably when they will.
- Amazing fully destructible environments based on voxels
- High quality characters models and animations
- Very polished gameplay mechanics using a combination of destruction, physics and platforming
People here: "B... But why FSR1?! Console has DLSS they should have just pressed the DLSS button!!!1!"
LOL that's not how it works, the game started as a Switch 1 game using Mario Odyssey engine and almost no Nintendo game had any form of TAA, which means it's not just importing a DLL and calling a function in the code, but they'd have to actually implement motion vectors in the rendering pipeline before they can even use DLSS or whatever, FSR 1 is a spatial upscaler which means is doesn't need motion vectors, it's also not using FSR alone SMAA as well.
And I agree with
Buggy Loop
and
winjer
about TAA probably not being a good choice for this game (and probably many Nintendo games) due to the amount of action, dynamic elements, particles, etc. So that's probably a big IF when they consider using DLSS in the future... Tho Switch 2 DLSS is very good for motion clarity so I'm pretty sure 2nd wave games and onwards will make use of it.So no, having a DLSS capable machine doesn't automatically make DLSS be implemented in games, the engine has to be prepared for it and it's not a simple task in an ongoing and late stage project, considering all the other stuff that may be depending on current implementations of whatever, so next game is probably when they will.
LordOcidax
Member
This, also the DLSS implementation could lead to a delay. Probably the rest of Switch 2 first party titles for this year are going to use FSR 1 too.Game has:
- Amazing fully destructible environments based on voxels
- High quality characters models and animations
- Very polished gameplay mechanics using a combination of destruction, physics and platforming
People here: "B... But why FSR1?! Console has DLSS they should have just pressed the DLSS button!!!1!"
LOL that's not how it works, the game started as a Switch 1 game using Mario Odyssey engine and almost no Nintendo game had any form of TAA, which means it's not just importing a DLL and calling a function in the code, but they'd have to actually implement motion vectors in the rendering pipeline before they can even use DLSS or whatever, FSR 1 is a spatial upscaler which means is doesn't need motion vectors, it's also not using FSR alone SMAA as well.
And I agree with
So no, having a DLSS capable machine doesn't automatically make DLSS be implemented in games, the engine has to be prepared for it and it's not a simple task in an ongoing and late stage project, considering all the other stuff that may be depending on current implementations of whatever, so next game is probably when they will.
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
Man, I tried to hold off on watching the DF vid because I didn't want spoilers (even though they're usually good at avoiding such), but I just had to watch it anyway.
Not only does the image quality look great (especially for FSR 1, although some shadows are ROUGH), but holy shit the game looks so creative and inventive. My hype damn near tripled after watching this video.
Ahhhh I can't wait for midnight! I'm gettin no sleep tonight at all!
Not only does the image quality look great (especially for FSR 1, although some shadows are ROUGH), but holy shit the game looks so creative and inventive. My hype damn near tripled after watching this video.
Ahhhh I can't wait for midnight! I'm gettin no sleep tonight at all!
MSduderino
Member
If anything, the game looking this good without DLSS means Nintendo going to go off even more once they implement it in their games. I haven't seen any bad frame drops that I've heard about though. Everything I've seen has been smooth, but if there's Echoes of Wisdom on S1 type drops, I'm going to have a problem.
Baemono
Member
The eShop page
GigaBowser
The bear of bad news
fsr cruders get wreked just gimme goord destruktion game since red faction
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
There's at least one really prolonged drop that they showed in the DF vid. It's during a boss fight, and it's at a CONSTANT 30fps. And it looks really rough.
If that's the only part (or if it's limited to very specific scenes), I can deal with it. But, fuck, it is rough compared to the buttery-smooth 60fps the rest of the game seems to be at.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I folded and just watched all of this. A few technical issues aside this game sounds absolutely fantastic. John has me so hyped.
LordOcidax
Member
The video reminds me the Mario Odyssey video, some people here went crazy about a few drops and some technical issues, ended up being almost irrelevant when people played the game. Everything looks and sounds amazing.