Trogdor1123
Member
I wonder when the rumors about games workshop will start to swirl…
[Variety] Disney’s Boy Trouble: Studio Seeks Original IP to Win Back Gen-Z Men Amid Marvel, Lucasfilm Struggles
- Thread starter Kacho
- Start date
I wanna see a disney film about a Prince, lets just call him Prince Phillip. He is destined to become King one day, as is the nature of being a prince. He takes it seriously, understands his responsibilities, studys hard. He finds out he needs to marry some princess, lets call her Princess Aurora. He's nervous, he knows this alliance is critical for the Kingdom and he has to make sacrifices to uphold his position and provide for his people. So he travels there, has a meet cute with a girl, they talk about horses or somesuch, and lo and behold SHE is Aurora! AWESOME! He lucked out with an arragned marriage to a girl that seems all right!
But then this bitch sorceress puts Auroras kingdom to sleep. F that! Phillip isn't gonna take that lying down, oh no. He goes on a quest, risks his life, slays monsters, frees people from tyranny, and eventually slays the Dragon that releases the grip of sleep across the land.
Yay! Everyone is happy, Phillip has proven himself and vanquished an evil. Aurora is happy that she has a strong protector and knows her kids will inherit a great legacy and her people will benefit from this union as well. She and Phillip can bond over their common interests.
No need for family squabbles, mommy/daddy issues the writer learned from years of therapy, girl boss nonsense, or 'toxic' masculinity. Show us a boy, turning onto a man, who embraces his fate, works to achieve it, acts honorably, and shows a moral backbone. Have the Princess reflect a realistic world-view, particularly for the feudal era in which she is set, and acknowledge that the power women hold in this era is different than men, is no less important and influential, yet is gained by SUPPORTING the husband, not undermining him.
And then in the end-credit scene Phillip can step out with that hussy Snow White from the kingdom next door while Aurora struggles in child birth
But then this bitch sorceress puts Auroras kingdom to sleep. F that! Phillip isn't gonna take that lying down, oh no. He goes on a quest, risks his life, slays monsters, frees people from tyranny, and eventually slays the Dragon that releases the grip of sleep across the land.
Yay! Everyone is happy, Phillip has proven himself and vanquished an evil. Aurora is happy that she has a strong protector and knows her kids will inherit a great legacy and her people will benefit from this union as well. She and Phillip can bond over their common interests.
No need for family squabbles, mommy/daddy issues the writer learned from years of therapy, girl boss nonsense, or 'toxic' masculinity. Show us a boy, turning onto a man, who embraces his fate, works to achieve it, acts honorably, and shows a moral backbone. Have the Princess reflect a realistic world-view, particularly for the feudal era in which she is set, and acknowledge that the power women hold in this era is different than men, is no less important and influential, yet is gained by SUPPORTING the husband, not undermining him.
And then in the end-credit scene Phillip can step out with that hussy Snow White from the kingdom next door while Aurora struggles in child birth
diffusionx
Gold Member
the real question is can Disney's production pipeline actually allow for a "boy's" product to go from inception to completion.
The pipeline is still infested with the people who made all this junk, and who cried when Bob Chapek told them to stop making everything overtly gay, etc.
March Climber
Member
If that's how you feel then respectfully, let's end our discussion here. I have too difficult of a time conversing with those who always see every single thing through the lens of politics and culture wars. I know it's a thing, I'm just not that type.
Just want you to know, my post wasn't about being 'above it all' and that's where you keep misreading me as if I am 'looking down' at you when we have these discussions. I literally just wanted to discuss things like how two people would discuss things in person, basically without all of the extra baggage of the internet. No weird tricks, no gaslighting, etc.
Kacho
Gold Member
This entire story is directly related to the culture wars. Disney actively alienated their male audience over the past decade and now they're trying to undo it. You want to ignore that and focus on "good movies" when their creative decisions had a direct impact on the quality of their entertainment.
I'm not misreading you btw. You are constantly condescending to me and this thread is the most recent example. Dropping empathy reactions on my posts, like you did here, makes it impossible to take you seriously. If you could figure out how to be less passive aggressive and disingenuous you'd probably have more productive conversations with me.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Unless it's something you have to absolutely see, what's the point of going to the movies?
Tickets are expensive, and I don't even want to know what snacks are going for these days. Then it hits one of the fifteen streaming services in a month or two.
Good luck with that Disney. Going to the movies isn't what it used to be.
Tickets are expensive, and I don't even want to know what snacks are going for these days. Then it hits one of the fifteen streaming services in a month or two.
Good luck with that Disney. Going to the movies isn't what it used to be.
March Climber
Member
Because I don't agree with this, because there have been multiple projects with positive male leads in Marvel, SW, and animated Disney shows and movies over the past decade. That alone means it must be a writing issue.
Looking back at our conversation again, I have not done the following:
- Belittle you
- Insult you
- Make fun of your opinion
What should I do differently?
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HoodWinked
Member
I don't even know what Gen Z is even interested in they seem all over the place and less monolithic so it's even more difficult to target them. What did they grow up on just generic f2p slop.
It's sad that this would even be remotely true. 'Modern' audiences crave authenticity more than anything. They can sniff out the injected agenda elements that that is what is causing the problem, not the ethnicity of the actors.
Wanna set a show in 17th century Scotland? Guess what, there ain't gonna be any roles for asian, african, or indian actors without a whole lotta backbending in the script....OR unauthentic casting.
So write a story set in Mumbai in the 12th century, make it good and folks will watch even if there are no white people in it. Legions of successful Korean shows demonstrate this. Make a show about the Tripoli pirates if you want a big global cast, not one about Vikings discovering Greenland or Arthur pulling Excalibur from the stone. If you set your show in 2020 Los Angeles then you should be casting a metric TON of hispanic actors and asians, not just a bunch of white and black people (black being the 4th most common ethnicity in LA, and a distant 4th at that). Hollywood has an authenticity problem, stemming from the writing, the casting, and ultimately the studio execs choosing to greenlight projects.
Original content should be original from the ground up, not just the same-old same-old literally reskinned in a performative way with no substance.
Kacho
Gold Member
You're certainly entitled to your opinion but I don't think you're convincing anyone. I'd say the more reasonable conclusion is that both things are a problem. If you want to ignore the elephant in the room despite the majority of the thread echoing what I've been saying then have it.
I can't help you with your anti-social personality issues.
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March Climber
Member
I just don't think it's the primary nor the sole reason for their issues.
There are clear, standout moments when a writer of a movie was attempting to reinforce a positive moment that comes across as cringe because it's too on the nose.
Best possible, clear cut example:
This is why I think things like this are only worth pointing out when it is a clear cut moment of taking someone out of a movie or show to either prove a point or lecture the audience. To me that's actual woke messaging.
In the hands of a good writer, you can mold that style of messaging to be subtle and meaningful but not overt, much like many 2000s and 2010s movies, Juno, Napoleon Dynamite, Scott Pilgrim, etc.
Now, on the other end, I think this moment is just cringe and badly written:
There is no messaging here, just 4 CW-looking idiots trying to look cool on shiny colorful bikes chasing someone at what seems to be 15mph through Tattooine. That's dumb design, dumb scenario, dumb characters, and bad writing.
Someone in the writing room thought Boba Fett needed a young adult crew with him. Adding random younger team members, or a protege to take the mantle, etc. type of stuff used to happen all the time in movies and shows and even back then audiences would say 'I don't know about this...' and not really roll with it.
Again, clear cut example of this:
Similar levels of cringe.
That all woman endgame bit doesn't really bother me, 'cause it's nested amongst some of the best bro-hero moments EVER put to film. Cap standing up to Thanos, getting Mjolnir, Hulk sacrificing himself for the snap, Hawkeye fighting to get the stones out, Dr. Strange seeming to be unimpressed with the heroes assembled, "on your left", etc, ALLLLLLL that shit was for the guys and it worked really well. So having a quick scene of the ladies, all 20 of them, getting together, really emphasizing how they are largely just "Lady XXX" versions of male heroes, to do what any 1 male hero could do alone, seems appropriate. It would have been just as cringe if they had all the black heroes in a shot, or maybe the three (?) asain ones, or just the guys older than 50, or whatever, as an unnatural gathering in the moment, but an understandable bit of audience pandering at the culmination of 20+ movies.
calico
Member
They can turn it around, but it depends how serious they are about it, how committed they are to it, and whether they really appreciate the scale of the damage done.
It's unlikely that a decade plus of demonstrating contempt for your core demographic can be undone overnight, but if they try and it doesn't work immediately, will they persevere or will they take it as proof that it's not worth the effort?
Realistically we are probably talking about 5-10 years minimum of consistently demonstrating a totally different attitude in order to rebuild the trust they have deliberately destroyed, and it could cost them a lot of money to see a process like that through.
It's unlikely that a decade plus of demonstrating contempt for your core demographic can be undone overnight, but if they try and it doesn't work immediately, will they persevere or will they take it as proof that it's not worth the effort?
Realistically we are probably talking about 5-10 years minimum of consistently demonstrating a totally different attitude in order to rebuild the trust they have deliberately destroyed, and it could cost them a lot of money to see a process like that through.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
The force without power
kpopSuperstar
Member
They hire rookies to write and direct 200 million dollar films. What do they expect.
And as much as the video game and movie industry don't want it to be true, 80% of the core audience is guys. There are charts that show 50/50 between men and women, but they are counting bad metrics like mobile games and Disney+ subscribers. But look at the audience who buy comics and follows fan channels on YouTube, it's dominated by men.
And as much as the video game and movie industry don't want it to be true, 80% of the core audience is guys. There are charts that show 50/50 between men and women, but they are counting bad metrics like mobile games and Disney+ subscribers. But look at the audience who buy comics and follows fan channels on YouTube, it's dominated by men.
Lambogenie
Member
Just make good stories and less DEI, Committee led crap.
Honestly, Monica was not a bad character, she had less of that Girl Boss sass Whats-her-face had. More of that, and less of the sass BS.
Actually look at what made stuff in the past popular,it wasn't that deep... there was no grand meaning, stuff was just cool and fun. Guys were strong and charismatic, women too and not sassy girl bosses.
Time and place, and the time isn't. For. Girl. Boss. Slay. Audiences anymore.
Honestly, Monica was not a bad character, she had less of that Girl Boss sass Whats-her-face had. More of that, and less of the sass BS.
Actually look at what made stuff in the past popular,it wasn't that deep... there was no grand meaning, stuff was just cool and fun. Guys were strong and charismatic, women too and not sassy girl bosses.
Time and place, and the time isn't. For. Girl. Boss. Slay. Audiences anymore.
A KEY factor about those 2:1 male:female audience splits is that most of the women are being taken....nay, DRAGGED to the premier by their men. So the goal isn't to make the women go to these films on their own, but to inject elements to make the film TOLERABLE to women.
THIS is what the women want to see
not girl bosses, not girls punching men, not girls dunking on men, not girls high fiving each other for doing simple things by themselves
they wanna see BEEFCAKE and they wanna see tough guys falling for that ONE WOMAN, things we had a lot of pre endgame and haven't seen since (other than the clip I linked above).
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
Major Insano
Member
They need to stop taking themselves and their stories so seriously.
They are in the entertainment business, not the education business.
This isn't the civil rights era anymore.
Audiences, especially males, want to be entertained and escape reality for an hour or two, not to be constantly lectured on social issues/narratives by activist creeps.
They are in the entertainment business, not the education business.
This isn't the civil rights era anymore.
Audiences, especially males, want to be entertained and escape reality for an hour or two, not to be constantly lectured on social issues/narratives by activist creeps.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Rockondevil
Member
Dug their own grave and ruined everything on the way.
Saber
Newd Member
I think the best of all is that they still namecall people who are hardcore fans of super-heroes, fans of Starwars and comics "nerds" or "virgins" as a form of diminishing.
Yet these same women basically infiltrates the male dominated area just to demand things to change. Imagine reading Shonen Jump just to ask to things to accomodate them. Imagine if soccer in Brazil change the rules to accomodate the demands of women, the entire soccer scene would colapse.
Liopleurodon
Member
Start being inspired by popular anime, maybe even start collaborations with Japanese studios.
Make female characters hot again.
Focus completely on male audience; most women don't actually watch Disney stuff for women anyway.
Make female characters hot again.
Focus completely on male audience; most women don't actually watch Disney stuff for women anyway.
Unknown Soldier
Member
DreamcastSkies
Gold Member
As a Millennial male I feel jealous. It's not like they're catering to my interests (new Darth Maul show looks sick though and I like the A Goofy Movie focus they've had recently).
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Kacho
Gold Member
Yeah it sucks they punted us just before we aged out of the target demo.
Unknown Soldier
Member
As a Millennial male you have decades of great content from your childhood and I'm willing to bet you haven't seen most of it
Hollywood's heyday in the 1990's and 2000's produced so much amazing content and it's all been remastered in 4K and available for you to enjoy
I mean fuck it you could just go watch The Lord of the Rings Trilogy again for the 87th time, it's better than everything Hollywood has made combined in the entirety of the 2010's and 2020's
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DreamcastSkies
Gold Member
You're right and funny enough, tonight I just ordered a blu-ray edition of the 2nd season of the original Digimon anime series from the early 00s.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
A number of 2020s blockbusters have claimed inspiration from anime. Namely, Eternals, Shang-Chi, Creed 3, Blue Beetle, The Batman, Matrix 4, EEAAO, Across the Spider-Verse, etc. To say nothing of attempts at live action adaptations of anime like Cowboy Beebop or the more successful One Piece on Netflix, or the flood of pseudo anime on Netflix like Arcane, Witcher, DMC.
I'm skeptical that anime really hits the mainstream to the degree it might seem to on the internet. Crunchyroll tops out at 15 million subs.
Star Wars is exhausted imo, and Lucasfilm would be smart to look for other IP once they change leadership. Problem is that all the sci-fi stuff is being taken by Apple's subsidized service and WB.
Superheroes are still very popular. For Superman and F4 to be where they are in terms of box office being the movies they are in this market, superhero fatigue isn't real. If the likes of success in other media like Marvel Rivals and Invincible aren't proof of that. That said, they should probably take a goddamn break before they reboot and refocus on the characters people actually like. But I don't think that the movies will ever dominate to the same extent... there's only so much you can do with the medium irrespective of the IP.
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Kenpachii
Member
Honestly the last 10 years has been extremely bad on there front on movie releases. There goal of replacing everything with girl bosses nobody identify with also doesn't help.
I would not be shocked if gen-z skipped most super hero movies and have no attachment towards them at all. I honestly have no idea what gen z even cares about, i would assume they are youtube kids and are probably not even into movies anymore.
I would not be shocked if gen-z skipped most super hero movies and have no attachment towards them at all. I honestly have no idea what gen z even cares about, i would assume they are youtube kids and are probably not even into movies anymore.
peish
Member
the executives, ceos want to reach out to both genders to earn more bonuses
the pipeline people, betcha, mostly males and shaved hair non-binary, want to empower female viewers to feel empowering themselves
female viewers dont care about comic books and starwars.
calico
Member
By my count they are the 63rd and 79th highest box office superhero movies in real terms, respectively. I think the only way to consider these performances good at all is in a context of superhero movie fatigue being real.
I would agree that the fatigue is not with the characters / superheroes themselves, but we are well down from the peak of demand for superhero movies.
If they stick to top tier superhero movies going forward (1 or 2 per year) and stop drowning the audience in low effort, lower tier superhero movies, they will probably see better results for the movies they do release. If they keep forcing it with many superhero movies and tv shows per year, the 'please don't make me eat any more ice cream' nausea response from the general audience will continue.
Influencers: The Movie.
Liopleurodon
Member
Instead of inspired, at first I wanted to write copy, but I thought that was going too far.
And I was thinking only about animation - basically cool action scenes with badass protagonists, and attractive female characters who while they can be competent, impressive, and badass in their own right, are still feminine, eye candies, and not girl bosses.
Please don't get into argument with me, I know that you are smart enough to understand what I mean.
Trunx81
Member
There was a woman who invented a multi million dollar franchise, without shoehorning crap into it.
It´s a franchise beloved by men and women.
Just wait until Disney buys Harry Potter ..
It was said here before and I repeat it: Get. Good. Writers.
Andor did show that there is still life in Star Wars. If you do it right.
Same goes for Marvel. It is possible to save both franchises.
But not with the people currently running the show.
Get.
Good.
Bloody.
Writers.
It´s a franchise beloved by men and women.
Just wait until Disney buys Harry Potter ..
It was said here before and I repeat it: Get. Good. Writers.
Andor did show that there is still life in Star Wars. If you do it right.
Same goes for Marvel. It is possible to save both franchises.
But not with the people currently running the show.
Get.
Good.
Bloody.
Writers.
Toons
Member
Its amazing that a perfectly reasonable comment liek this gets responded to with buzzwords and accusations of "gaslighting" by overtly political extremists
Toons
Member
Theres a conversation to be had about audience engagement with films that ingovles a lot of complex factors but it all boils down to this.. the last thing we need in movies is more traditionalism, more false nostalgia and looking backwards.
The last thing we need is more safety, and more for lack of a better term pandering. I'll take new ideas and new approaches to tired old tropes over that any day, and if that means some people don't wanna watch everything, that's fine too. Disney, if they were forward thinking in a real sense would realize that and instead invest in a demographic of individuals who want challenging and engaging media, not safe media, and what they'll get out of that is an audience that can stomach the same.
The last thing we need is more safety, and more for lack of a better term pandering. I'll take new ideas and new approaches to tired old tropes over that any day, and if that means some people don't wanna watch everything, that's fine too. Disney, if they were forward thinking in a real sense would realize that and instead invest in a demographic of individuals who want challenging and engaging media, not safe media, and what they'll get out of that is an audience that can stomach the same.
Liopleurodon
Member
Don't stand between me, and my childhood.
Toons
Member
Your childhood is not defined by movies being released today lmao
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
If Disney is openly seeking remedy, then they must obviously view the young male demo as a challenge for them. And since they're soliciting new IP's I assume they have no short term plans to change direction with the MCU or Star Wars.
Which is kind of funny if one thinks about it: a mega corp with endless liquid cash sitting on the MCU and Star Wars wondering how they can possibly attract a young male audience in 2025?
Anyways, I guess I am out of touch. I am an older millennial who has enjoyed about 70% of the recent Disney output, but I can see why much of their recent movies and television shows wouldn't appeal to some random 18 - 22 year old dude.
Which is kind of funny if one thinks about it: a mega corp with endless liquid cash sitting on the MCU and Star Wars wondering how they can possibly attract a young male audience in 2025?
Anyways, I guess I am out of touch. I am an older millennial who has enjoyed about 70% of the recent Disney output, but I can see why much of their recent movies and television shows wouldn't appeal to some random 18 - 22 year old dude.
Thats what was nice about Kpop Demon Hunters. 3 straight girls, and soommmmeee, straight guys I guess? The message is pretty universal, you can CHOSE to read a lot into the subtext of the human/demon interactions, it's mostly just positivity vs negativity. Works great for kids. All the characters fit into the world, hell there is even a cute mascot character.
The Disney problem isn;t that they can't appeal to 18-22 dudes, it's that they lost the FATHERS, and those are the ones that bring their sons and buy them the toys. My kid so much as whispered "Batman", or "Leonardo", or "Spiderman" and he got merch for those guys. But really, it was almost NOTHING compared to the toys I had as a kid, and what he did want was minecraft, five nights at freddies, and roblox related. Maybe Dogman thrown in there for a bit.
My daughter still plays house, dress up with barbie, and does fashion crafts and whatnot. No different than my sisters. It's the BOYS that walked away from that cash cow for the studios and now Disney is suffering for it.