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‘The Walking Dead’ – Season 6, Part 2 – Sundays on AMC

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Nodnol

Member
Is it bad that I didn't mind the cliffhanger? I was expecting it, so maybe that softened the blow. It's not the way I would have went (more on that below), but it wasn't outrageous or disgusting or whatever hyperbole you want to use.

I've liked this season to be honest; since day one TWD has been very hot and cold in terms of quality, and you've always had to take the rough with the smooth. Overall, it's a great show, and whilst it may fall short when it comes to the top A-tier shows that it exists around, it's still damn good TV.

I like the Carol and Morgan arch, more so with Morgan. Carol's conscience kicking in was a bit out of the blue, if not understandable, generally. It's delivery was a little haste, but I thought their scenes were good in this episode. Shows a side to Morgan the viewers would have questioned, and introduced another important community heading into next season.

Now the Saviour stuff was brilliant. Highlight of the episode was Trevor from GTAV.

The tension was brilliant by the end, and he episode did a good job, I thought, with the pacing leading up to that. Rick's demeanor worsening was as symbolic as the situation required. By the end, he, like the viewer, was utterly helpless. Perfect.

Negan....JDM nailed it. Absolutely nailed it.

So the cliffhanger...it's a proper cocktease. All season they've been hinting, Negan's name on the lips of the viewer, the whispers of the Saviours. He made a fantastic entrance to the show, and as memorable as it will eventually be, they dropped the ball.

Cliffhangers, these days, are utterly worthless. When shooting starts for S7 next month, we will know within weeks, if not days, who Lucille's victim is. Why shortchange the entrance to one of the series' defining characters, for such a short term "win"? Seems very short-sighted of Gimple. GoT did this recently, and whilst that was stupid in other ways (the resolution of said cliffhanger is so heavily foreshadowed, more so in the book, that it was pointless to leave it "there"), it atleast made a statement about a "death".

This episode should have ended with the death of one of the Atlanta 5, or one of the A-tier additions (Michonne), and it should have been brutal. Rick's, the group's maybe, face(s) should have been the closing shot for the Negan punchline. Instead, they spoil it. This ain't fucking Dallas; we're not going to be guessing for months and months who shot JR, because they'll be shooting leaks in a month.

It's like your other half has been teasing you all day, sexting you, sending you photos of the Victoria Secrets bag, you get home and she's there in her new lingerie, and you're boiling under your collar. She leads you upstairs, sits you on the bed and makes you get undressed. She says she's just going to freshen up, but instead of returning to you straight away, she nips downstairs and does the washing up. I mean come on!

"Last Day on Earth"!? More like "Blue Balls".

On the whole I enjoyed it, and I'll anticipate S7, but they definitely took a cheap shot and partially ruined what should have been a great moment.
 

Solo

Member
The worst part is they will drag this shit out in S7 too. Episode 1 could focus on Carol and Morgan. Episode 2 could focus on what's going on at Alexandria. Theoretically, they could delay this "answer" a few episodes.
 

jett

D-Member
The worst part is they will drag this shit out in S7 too. Episode 1 could focus on Carol and Morgan. Episode 2 could focus on what's going on at Alexandria. Theoretically, they could delay this "answer" a few episodes.

Theoretically?

This is exactly what's going to happen.
 
The worst part is they will drag this shit out in S7 too. Episode 1 could focus on Carol and Morgan. Episode 2 could focus on what's going on at Alexandria. Theoretically, they could delay this "answer" a few episodes.

Unless the backlash changes their minds it will be exactly this. Just like the Glenn dumpster dive.
 
I think overall, this was the shows best season, and this was the best episode. I don't think the carol stuff worked out, and the cliffhanger was pretty dumb. But the rest of the episode was amazing. The building sense of dread was the best part of the episode. You can feel the terror slowly coming over rick's group as they encounter each stop. Eventually that terror turns to panic. Rick's look when he was captured was entirely earned IMHO.

I would have given this episode a 9/10. Instead because of that last moment I give it an 8. It was pretty corney.

I can finally say this show is "good" though.
 

Surfinn

Member
Okay so its inarguable that the cliffhanger was intended and that as a result this ending could've evoked an entirely different outlook had said individual been revealed. But how this can diminish a meaningful finale which was catered to the introduction of Negan is still baffling. This episode was about Negan, that's all we've been hearing about for god knows how long, and all I can do is tip my hat to an overwhelming introduction of he's character, like I said earlier if we knew who died, it would've overshadowed Negan who was the premise of this episode.

We've been building up to this introduction pretty much all season, we've not been completely invested in who will die next, since they've all been at risk. All characters carry the same equivalence when it comes to surviving a death. Rick and crew on there knees surrounded with Negan and Lucille waving around is intense, I just cant differentiate between why the identity is more important that the situation there in. I think that there is so much promise for the story now, and the cliffhanger does not detract how well executed the episode was.



Not at all. Aaron dying would be almost meaningless compared to Daryl. But in terms of this episode someone is dead by the hands of Negan, and I think that's the point. Not that the individual who is dead shouldn't matter, but the fact that they're all facing the same vulnerability at this stage is more interesting.



There is no contradiction.
No.. following through with killing someone Rick/co. AND THE AUDIENCE care about is what makes Negan's presence and implications impactful; I have no idea how you're failing to understand this basic logic.

Negan killing a bunch of strangers in front of them or someone who they/we don't care about only stands as a potential threat instead of actually having a lasting impact. The group needs to be punished in order to pay for their mistakes, and simply being threatened isn't enough.

Negan's character is about hurting you, not just throwing around empty threats. That's why it matters. You don't get to walk away unless you've lost something, and let's be honest, losing Eugene or Rosita isn't going to impact the group much, aside from one or two characters. It doesn't affect our survivors from Atlanta and the farm, the show's core characters. It doesn't punish them and it doesn't hurt them.

It's all about emotional impact. And killing a B or C tier character doesn't affect the Rick/co. and the audience like it's intended to.
 
The worst part is they will drag this shit out in S7 too. Episode 1 could focus on Carol and Morgan. Episode 2 could focus on what's going on at Alexandria. Theoretically, they could delay this "answer" a few episodes.

Theoretically?

This is exactly what's going to happen.

Unless the backlash changes their minds it will be exactly this. Just like the Glenn dumpster dive.
Yep. There's no reason to think they won't keep doing this. After this season, nothing is off the table as far as how low they'll stoop.
 

border

Member
Gimple claims that they will somehow "earn" this cliffhanger through the strength of the Season 7 opener......that this ruse is intended to be a sort of backdrop for what happens at the beginning of next year.

I'd probably take a moment to point out that he also claimed they were going to "earn" their cliffhanger during the Glenn fakedeath bullshit. There was supposed to be some kind of payoff for Glenn going through all that. Instead the character got zero development out of it and in retrospect it was little more than a gimmick to boost week-to-week viewership.

So as much as I like to believe that the mystery victim serves some kind of narrative purpose that will pay off when next season starts, I'm far more likely to believe this is just an awful gimmick intended to boost the ratings of the season premiere.
 
Rewatched again there is no rv behind him so since it showed one when he was in front of Abe Rick Sasha Maggie Daryl safe to say it's someone outside the middle Aaron Eugene Glenn but who knows

I said before, but I think it's probably going to be Glenn. The "I trust you Rick", and the foreshadowing of her new haircut. Maggie will lose her baby, but become the new leader of Alexandria, and plot her revenge against Negan. Rick finally sees how his arrogance and shoot-first attitude has put everyone he loves in danger, and will probably never want to lead again.

Why would anyone even want to work for Negan though? I'd rather take my chances on the road than be under the heel of that psychopath. I'm so tired of the Alexandria set, I'd love for that to happen.

And the scene with Carol and the dude who somehow tracked her for miles after being shot through the shoulder like the fucking terminator was the absolute worst scene I've ever seen on The Walking Dead. Everything from the implausiblity of him tracking her down wounded/disoriented for no reason other than to add suspense (why would he not just turn around and head back to camp? Instead he embarks on a suicide mission?). And the shooting of a woman on TV while she's laying there defenseless in pain/suffering was highly distasteful and pointless. Not only did they ruin her character by essentially allowing herself to be tracked and killed by a wounded man, they just reduce her to S1/2 Carol by totally giving up and begging to be killed, essentially curled up in a ball (I love the actress who plays Carol but that was some absolutely pitiful acting)?

I agree that the guy chasing after her with a shoulder injury was stupid, I said so last week, but why is "shooting a woman" different than shooting a man? It wasn't pointless; the guy wanted her to suffer just as Negan wants Rick's group to suffer. And Carol wasn't begging to be killed, but she had lost a lot of blood and could barely even take on a walker. Also, part of her wanted to give up. Do you forget that she had been serially abused by her husband? Or lost her daughter. That trauma doesn't just go away. Hence the line about suffering. She was just done with it all. And I don't think the acting was "pitiful" at all.
 

Lashley

Why does he wear the mask!?
Just showed my mum the Negan scene, she thought it was amazing till the ending. Even asked why it ended like that, wonder if the general public (IE not Gaf or comic readers) will wonder the same?
 

bill0527

Member
I waited three fucking years to find out if Vader was telling Luke the truth or not.

I don't mind a cliffhanger.

This..this wasn't a cliffhanger. This was shitty writing. This was fucking with the audience to capture a ratings bonanza. What makes this is a gimmick at this point is that fact they've done this shit 3 times this season - Glenn with the dumpster, Daryl last week, and then this.

They blew it and in the process, completely blew Negan's introduction because now... now the focus isn't on Negan. Its on this damn cliffhanger. I would think you wouldn't want such negative energy surrounding what was a season long build-up with no payoff.
 

Kyou

Member
Season 7 opener is just going to be eliminating characters from the death pool one by one.

Sasha: Hey Rosita
Rosita: Sup
Sasha: Sure is a shame what happened to Daryl... can't believe he spilled paint on his favorite jacket!
Rosita: Yeah it reminds me of Abraham, I really miss him... looking forward to him coming over for dinner tomorrow!
 

Takashi

Member
Man this finale was well on its way to being my top episode just from that insane tension. The roadblock mind games, Trevor's heel work, Negan's introduction (with no commercial breaks by the way), and some great camera shots during his whole speech. Why they decided to take such a fantastic episode and absolutely kill it with the last few seconds is beyond me.

So before this half season even started, I heard rumors that Negan wouldn't even be introduced until the finale. Shit annoyed me but I eventually made my peace with it. To my surprise this whole back half of the season has been absolutely on point. Episodes I expected to not be great actually surprised me, and aside from some stupid character decisions, there were no episodes that were total duds. Then I recently heard the rumor of the cliffhanger finale. Was honestly hoping that was too stupid to actually be true, yet here we are.

Fucking lol at people who actually think this has to do with viewers being impatient or childish; the cliffhanger completely detracts from the impact. It makes no fucking difference if the next episode was six months from now or next week. Whole point of that finale, hell that season, was to demonstrate just how deep in shit Rick's group has got themselves in. The audience is essentially supposed to share in the emotions of Rick's crew during this finale.
The overconfidence in the beginning: viewers know Negan is a threat but after 6 seasons of seeing our hardened group, we assume it's just a slightly bigger Governor situation.​
The mind games: the audience, along with Rick and co, begin to realize that this isn't your typical psycho leader, seeing as he could have easily had them dispatched at any of the roadblocks.​
Their capture: the group and the audience simultaneously realize they had no idea Negan rolled like this.​
And then to finally top this all off, to finally give us "something to fear", the audience is supposed to react with Rick's group as they witness this new villain establish himself by brutally executing one of the core characters. Not after, not next week, not six months later. The audience is pretty much right there in that line up with them by proxy. Seeing the horrified reactions of the now broken group would finally let that total despair sink in. That's the kind of shit that gets people to tune in next season without ruining the whole buildup.

It's such a damn shame too because not only was that finale already great, but JDM's acting was incredible. Instead of people talking about the new asshole villain and letting the hate for him fester, they totally dampened his introduction and sacrificed good storytelling for WhoWasIt hashtags.
 

Solo

Member
It's hard to believe this is the same show that had Carl shoot Lori or have Herschel's head cut off without much warning (mid-episode, no less).
 

ultron87

Member
It's really bad to open your new season on this because you either a) Start the episode with someone dying, and the audience is distraught about whoever died or b) Jerk the audience around the whole premier episode until revealing it. In either case the audience is concerned and thinking about this thing, instead of whatever themes and storylines you're setting up for the next season.
 

icespide

Banned
Rewatched again there is no rv behind him so since it showed one when he was in front of Abe Rick Sasha Maggie Daryl safe to say it's someone outside the middle Aaron Eugene Glenn but who knows

do we actually think the show runners are going to give a shit about the logistics of what the angle was and where negan is in relation to the lineup? they will pick whoever the hell they want
 
Gimple claims that they will somehow "earn" this cliffhanger through the strength of the Season 7 opener......that this ruse is intended to be a sort of backdrop for what happens at the beginning of next year.

I'd probably take a moment to point out that he also claimed they were going to "earn" their cliffhanger during the Glenn fakedeath bullshit. There was supposed to be some kind of payoff for Glenn going through all that. Instead the character got zero development out of it and in retrospect it was little more than a gimmick to boost week-to-week viewership.

So as much as I like to believe that the mystery victim serves some kind of narrative purpose that will pay off when next season starts, I'm far more likely to believe this is just an awful gimmick intended to boost the ratings of the season premiere.
And that was really the only reason I stuck with the show the rest of the season. Either the Glenn/Nicholas fake-out was a cheap ratings ploy, or it would pay off in some way. I gave them the benefit of the doubt. And still, here we are months later, and I still don't see any evidence that the way they handled that served the storytelling in any meaningful way.

How can anyone say this season is even remotely the best with this and Glenn's dumpster dive bullshit?
Agreed. I think it ranks up there with Season 3 as one of the worst. The first half of Season 6 was easily the worst half-season that they've done. The second half was considerably better, but the last couple weeks weren't very good, and the conclusion of the finale really undid much of what they did right over the last eight episodes. I will never look back on this season in a positive light, that's for sure.
 
This season was the season of really ass cliffhangers.

Rick is surrounded in the RV as a horde closes in on him = Nah, he's fine. He ran the whole way back to Alexandria.

Glenn gets his guts torn out after falling off a dumpster = Nah, that was just the body that fell on top of him. Magic dumpster FTW.

Daryl is seemingly shot by Dwight as red spaghetti coats the screen = Nah, he's fine. And he even got a blanket afterwards, too!
 
Rather annoying they ended it on a cliffhanger, but I did really like JDM portrayal of the new madman/big bad.

I just hope he doesn't turn out to be like the Governor and actually shows why he's the head of the seemingly all powerful Saviours.
 
To add, I loved the look on everyone's faces when they realised it was an unwinnable situation. Rick's almost teary eyed expression had me shook. You can feel the fear.
 

Angry Fork

Member
All the bullshit aside the show runner comparing this to Lost season 1/2 is a clever sidestep/rouse. Only problem is 1. the comics already exist so hardcore fans know what's supposed to happen and the criticism is the scene is ruined, not just that it's a cliffhanger, and 2. We haven't seen anything to show us walking dead writers are capable of reaching the wow factor of Lost S2 opener.
 

Solo

Member
It still wouldn't make up for it, but maybe one way to save a little face and make the audience feel once more like no one is truly safe is for S7 to open with Negan killing TWO major characters. Like, say it's Glenn who he's killing at the end of S6, and Daryl tries to attack Negan or whatever, violating the "if anyone moves, they die" rule, and Negan offs him too.
 
Hah, I forgot they likely drag out the answer too. Thank God i'm done with this show. Season 6 was honestly one of the worst ones for me. Season 4 & 5 were absolutely fantastic, particularly 4. Season 6 just had way too much bullshit going on that muddled up any of the good it had going for it.

-Carol's personality doing a turn for seemingly no reason. We're talking about a character that put down a girl that was becoming like a surrogate daughter for her, taking Sophia's place. Now we're supposed to believe she has a conscious about everything she'd done up until this point? If they had been building up this crisis of conscious over the last few season, or heck even in earlier in season 6, that'd be one thing. But within 3 episodes she's a crying mess hoping to die. Yeah, didn't buy that for an instant.

- The dumpster dive. Terrible, terrible sequence, the entire thing. The scene doesn't make sense, falls apart under scrutiny, and is only there to get the audience abuzz. And for what? To tease your audience over the course of 2 weeks? The stories that were told in those episodes were compelling as shit too - they didn't need the cloud of 'did he die?' hanging over them. But whatever, thats what the show is now.

- The lowered level of intelligence on the part of several cast members, specifically to give the Saviors a chance to actually be threatening. One moment, the Saviors are a joke. The next, they are highly coordinated and scary af. What changed? I'd say it was the main cast's level of intelligence, which is basically just the characters writing them stupid in order to actually advance the plot.

- That really odd girl Carl is all crazy for. She is just terribly written from top to bottom. Scenes featuring her make me roll my eyes. I get it, Carl needs a romantic interest, which you would've had had you not killed in her in S2. Fine. But nothing about her character comes across as compelling.

- Best part about this season was when they offed all those red shirts when trying to wade through the herd at the start of S6b. Finally, some stakes. Things of interest happen.
 

Ahiru77

Member
Just watched the episode.


52:39

3ubVvlE.gif


FnYEphC.gif






But seriously, what a horrible cheap way to do that cliffhanger. Somebody is really sabotaging this show.
 

ultron87

Member
The Savior's rapidly fluctuating power level is insane. They went from being completely unable to scratch our heroes in the first two encounters to being magic forest ninjas who can instantly set up a giant cordon of roadblocks.
 
Just finished the episode. That is some bullshit right there. That better be Glenn or Maggie taking the hit and not Eugene or whoever who nobody cares about.
 

near

Gold Member
No.. following through with killing someone Rick/co. AND THE AUDIENCE care about is what makes Negan's presence and implications impactful; I have no idea how you're failing to understand this basic logic.

Negan killing a bunch of strangers in front of them or someone who they/we don't care about only stands as a potential threat instead of actually having a lasting impact. The group needs to be punished in order to pay for their mistakes, and simply being threatened isn't enough.

Negan's character is about hurting you, not just throwing around empty threats. That's why it matters. You don't get to walk away unless you've lost something, and let's be honest, losing Eugene or Rosita isn't going to impact the group much, aside from one or two characters. It doesn't affect our survivors from Atlanta and the farm, the show's core characters. It doesn't punish them and it doesn't hurt them.

It's all about emotional impact. And killing a B or C tier character doesn't affect the Rick/co. and the audience like it's intended to.

Basic logic? Am I not part of that said audience now? Because last I checked I am, and I was impressed by Negan's presence on screen, I'm also looking forward to how he's actions evolve the group.

Negan killing one of the main crew isn't something I was anticipating, now that someone has been killed, we'll find out in due time, which is inevitable, the argument here isn't about it's relevance to the story, that is a given, the argument is how much it detracts from this particular episode if it was cut in. And I will stand by this ending because of how well it was executed. A introductory character piece about Negan demonstrating he's capabilities, resources, personality, and a standard for things to come.

I understand the importance and relevance of the killed character, but it's not going to hurt the entertainment value of an entire episode because I didn't get my answer. For me the identity of the killed character does not matter in this episode, Negan mattered.
 

CoryCubed

Member
I think Maggie's had a miscarriage and that will make it easier for the audience to stomach if she's the chosen one since she's arguably not pregnant anymore, I mean does AMC want to be associated with beating a pregnant woman to death? If they went that route, and I think they did, then yeah lose the baby first. It seems hard enough on production with Judith around let alone two kids.
 
It's just ridiculous that they've monetized the show so much that we now have cliffhangers like this and characters who have impenetrable plot armor because they are fan favorites.

I understand obviously that films and TV are commercial ventures and need to get good ratings/viewership to survive, and that most shows do this to some degree, but TWD is just on another level of insanity with it. If the show were a videogame, the answer to #WhoIsIt?" would be revealed in $60 DLC.

It's crazy that AMC aired Breaking Bad and Mad Men, 2 shows where storytelling was paramount, and.....this. Granted, they pulled this shit with separating BB & MM final seasons into 2 seasons too, so.....fuck AMC.

That's because AMC doesn't have complete ownership of Breaking Bad and Mad Men. Sony owns BB and Lionsgate owns Mad Men.

The one show that has been dicked around with horrid budgets, firing of talent has been... Walking Dead, because Walking Dead is 100% owned by AMC.

This is something I think people need to know because it explains the huge quality gap between shows. Those other shows were protected by the other owners from AMC.
 

Surfinn

Member
I agree that the guy chasing after her with a shoulder injury was stupid, I said so last week, but why is "shooting a woman" different than shooting a man? It wasn't pointless; the guy wanted her to suffer just as Negan wants Rick's group to suffer. And Carol wasn't begging to be killed, but she had lost a lot of blood and could barely even take on a walker. Also, part of her wanted to give up. Do you forget that she had been serially abused by her husband? Or lost her daughter. That trauma doesn't just go away. Hence the line about suffering. She was just done with it all. And I don't think the acting was "pitiful" at all.

You don't think a man shooting a woman in the leg and arm in an attempt to make her suffer until death has a different emotional impact than if it were a man, in terms of television violence? You don't think people are more sensitive to violence against women in this context (especially when she's cowering and essentially begging to be killed). I'll have to watch it again, but I remember her trying to get the guy to finish the job instead of leaving her there to die. Yes, yes, she's been through a tremendous amount but her sudden switch from level headed veteran survivor to "I can't be around people I care about anymore and there's no reason to go on so I'll cower in the corner alone for someone to come along and kill me" is complete bullshit and totally forced. Seeing her transform into a S1/2 state and backtrack on literally ALL of her character development prior to this felt completely out of left field. They ruined her character by changing her philosophy with no driving force to get her there.
 

jstevenson

Sailor Stevenson
it's interesting, I had laid off this show but came back to it and it's been terrific.

The finale was a touch boring, like, the Carol/Morgan stuff just made me want to get back to the rest (beyond the final confrontation).

And it was a little wash-rinse-repeat for the RV hitting roadblocks.

That said, that ending was insane and so tense and well-acted.

The cliffhanger was unnecessary, but the build-up to it, wow. Bummer the cliffhanger is spoiling it, and the season, for folks
 

aerogod 2.0

Neo Member
The worst part is they will drag this shit out in S7 too. Episode 1 could focus on Carol and Morgan. Episode 2 could focus on what's going on at Alexandria. Theoretically, they could delay this "answer" a few episodes.

I was think they might do like a season open episode or 2 with carol and morgan and then an Alexandria or Hilltop episode and then a few Negan flashback episodes that lead up to the big reveal on the mid season finale. :/
 

Angry Fork

Member
Apparently the death hasn't even been filmed yet, so who knows if they've even decided who it's going to be.

http://link.hollywoodreporter.com/c...nMtODgwNDc1/5230c802191b2a646d8c0eafB64027fab


Was it always the plan to feature a cliffhanger?

I think it's the best way to wrap up this story. Honestly, and this is going to sound ridiculous, but I thought it would have been a little cheap to kill a major character in the last few minutes of the show.

lol
 
Negan is the best character on the show since Shane died tragically.

It's a shame the show had to end with a gotcha type cliffhanger. It would have been impactful enough if we knew who got Lucille'd but given the current show runners I guess I'm not too surprised.
 

Spizz

Banned
Was it always the plan to feature a cliffhanger?

I think it's the best way to wrap up this story. Honestly, and this is going to sound ridiculous, but I thought it would have been a little cheap to kill a major character in the last few minutes of the show
Jesus, you seriously want to talk "cheap"? What the hell was the dumpster?
 
Can't keep reading that interview... it's so laughable.

So it's cheap to kill a character in the final minutes of a finale (even though they did the exact same thing with Andrea in season three, even after the reshoots), but this season kicked off with all the hoopla about Glenn's "death", and all the stupid publicity that was baiting people? That's perfectly fine?
 

Moofers

Member
It blows my mind every time I see people say this was the worst season of the entire series. Did you all just jump in during Season 3 and not actually see Season 2?

Also, the death not having been filmed yet strikes me as a card that AMC can play when negotiating contracts for the new season (if that hasn't already happened). Cynical, I know, but AMC are cunts.
 
Despite the cheap ending, man, how awesome was the acting in the last scene? Like seriously, each and every one of them were killing it. Their expressions spoke volumes and I was so fucking tense just looking at them. They all deserve major applause. Especially Rick. This man can ACT. Bravo!
 

border

Member
So it's cheap to kill a character in the final minutes of a finale (even though they did the exact same thing with Andrea in season three, even after the reshoots), but this season kicked off with all the hoopla about Glenn's "death", and all the stupid publicity that was baiting people? That's perfectly fine?

To be fair that wasn't a Gimple-run season. Since then they have been less likely to kill people in Season premieres and Season finales and a lot more likely to kill them in random mid-season episodes.
 
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