My biggest surprise is that Norman Reedus went from what I figured would be a bit part that lasts a few episodes to the second most important character in the series and the #1 fan favorite.
That was needlessly cruel. If Rick had actually had to go through with the arm chop, the show would just be a cartoon. They don't get to be a horrific cruel murder fiesta and this serious character study about what it means to survive at the same time. They can't have both, and at this point I don't know if I can be asked to really give a damn about any of the remaining characters.
It can't be cruel and serious at the same time? Why not? What about it's cruelty is unearned? People were cheering when Rick and co killed Negan's guys.
This is not a comic spoiler, but based on her current portrayal I fully believe Maggie will be the first person in the group to murder someone in Negan's group. She will kill, lie down to have the baby, get up and then kill some more. Her character is justifiably that mad right now.
They don't get to be a horrific cruel murder fiesta and this serious character study about what it means to survive at the same time. They can't have both
Come knocking eventually? Yes. But not with Negan's full rage mode. Rick and his crew did kill a whole lot of Negan's men just because Rick thought they were bunch of thugs with hot air. Not only that angered Negan but Rick got both Abe and Glenn bashed to death.
Season ending cliffhangers in general are really hard to justify and I don't think there was anything The Walking Dead could have done to erase the blunder that was the ending of season 6.
Still, I thought they handled the premiere as best as they possibly could have. It would have been a mistake to cold open the episode with such a harrowing series of events, so I think they were smart to build the tension back up with that sequence with Rick and Negan in the van before getting to the moment everyone had been waiting for.
And then the moment arrived and: "Oh. They went with one of the no impact deaths." I thought to myself. "That's actually super lame. What a cop out." The writers said the wait would be worth it but it appeared that they had grossly miscalculated the strength of audience's affection for Abraham.
But it turns out they were actually subverting people's expectations by leaning in to the cop out-esque deaths from seasons past by killing Abraham in order to get people to let their guards down so they could shock everyone by also killing Glenn - a character most had assumed was safe because of all the fakeouts they pulled with him in the past, not to mention the fact that (comic spoiler that's already been spoiled a bunch in the thread but let's keep the "no comic spoilers" pretense going)
he was also the one to die in this situation in the comic, (the show has almost never killed a character in the same way as in the comic - Shane and The Governor are the only ones I can think of)
which made it all the more shocking.
I thought it was a legitimately surprising twist and I applaud the writers for actually being willing to kill off a character that the audience actually cared about.
it still would've been better if they ended season 6 with abraham getting killed, only to reveal in the season 7 premier that glenn gets it too. season 6 cliffhanger is still bullshit
Game of Thrones has done it better multiple times and is the biggest HBO show ever and has had the exact same type of cultural phenomenona this show has had. One uses cheap ways to retain an audience, the other gets nominated for Emmys.
I know of all this. I meant post the stuff that happened tonight. They are all supposed to be broken now and willing do do whatever Negan wants. I do believe Maggie will be the first to break that midset and rage on the first person sh gets her hands on - which will probbaly lead to even more problems, but Maggie has no time for logic right now,
I know of all this. I meant post the stuff that happened tonight. They are all supposed to be broken now and willing do do whatever Negan wants. I do believe Maggie will be the first to break that midset and rage on the first person sh gets her hands on - which will probbaly lead to even more problems, but Maggie has no time for logic right now,
I made the mistake of reading issue #100 on a 13 hour flight and couldn't sleep after it. I was fucking haunted.
I'm watching this tonight with a friend and there's no way I wanted to go into it blind; so in order to steel myself I just forwarded to the moments in question...
Holy fuck. I didn't think anything could be worse than
That was insane. So that's really it I guess after all these years, for Rick and his crew succeeding in against all odds type of shit? Like I have no clue where the show is gonna go from here. Can't fuckin wait
This isn't like GoT / Red Wedding at all. This episode was *my* jumping off point because i had a personal moment of clarity while watching. I'm not going to about face and suddenly act as if the show sucks or the quality has wavered in some way. After the second death this episode ( and perhaps within the beating during the first death), I simply came to the question of why I'm continuing to watch the show. There's no 'end goal'. No "optimism" or potential happily ever after. The end of this season/show is ultimately if these guys will rage out into revenge or they won't. They'll either kill Negan, or they won't. Either result is a brutal repeat of a process we've already seen every season. People will die. People the audience is very close to. Horribly. And to what end?
Nothing. The show has no end. The misery has no message. It's just dismal. If that's what people dig, more power to them. The show just isn't for me anymore.
This isn't like GoT / Red Wedding at all. This episode was *my* jumping off point because i had a personal moment of clarity while watching. I'm not going to about face and suddenly act as if the show sucks or the quality has wavered in some way. After the second death this episode ( and perhaps within the beating during the first death), I simply came to the question of why I'm continuing to watch the show. There's no 'end goal'. No "optimism" or potential happily ever after. The end of this season/show is ultimately if these guys will rage out into revenge or they won't. They'll either kill Negan, or they won't. Either result is a brutal repeat of a process we've already seen every season. People will die. People the audience is very close to. Horribly. And to what end?
Nothing. The show has no end. The misery has no message. It's just dismal. If that's what people dig, more power to them. The show just isn't for me anymore.
It's a character driven survival mood piece. Every character on the show has had IMO very strong arcs throughout the seasons, some of them cut short by sudden death, some of them (like Glenn) die when there's nothing more to be said. If you're looking for a narrative arc you were watching the wrong show from the beginning.
Come knocking eventually? Yes. But not with Negan's full rage mode. Rick and his crew did kill a whole lot of Negan's men just because Rick thought they were bunch of thugs with hot air. Not only that angered Negan but Rick got both Abe's and Glenn's head bashed in.
The whole set up was to break down Rick just to teach him a lesson.
Holy shit. I'm sorry Glen but I hate you for not dying sooner.
Great premiere. Makes up for that terrible season finale, but it being the setup for this has sort of redeemed it. First time the series as really made me say what the fuck in disgust. Only took seven seasons.
I haven't watched this show since I think Season 4, but let me get this right. Negan hit Glenn so hard his eyes popped out of his head? That's fucking brutal. Seems like a pretty harsh way to die for what was a character that's been around since the beginning.
AVClub should have someone else reviewing it. For a while now the guy doing it has been ragging on it for not being the show he wants it to be instead of actually judging it for what it is. It's annoying.
AVClub should have someone else reviewing it. For a while now the guy doing it has been ragging on it for not being the show he wants it to be instead of actually judging it for what it is. It's annoying.
I noticed that too. Its like he didn't realize the world just got much bigger by actually meeting Negan so his complaint about there being nothing to do rings false when there's been levels to each time Rick has had to "start over"
I complained about this around Season 4 until Alexandria but the show is actually leading somewhere narratively speaking.
I feel like I'm not really the core audience for this show anymore. It seems like TWD has just descended into torture porn at this point. It's like the showrunners just want to see how debased they can go with the characters. It's not enjoyable, and they could have told a story about Rick getting knocked down a few pegs without the extreme violence.
I'm personally sad about Abe because he never ceased to be funny. He was just a great character and provided some much-needed humor in an otherwise grimdark show.
But Glenn... I just can't believe they would go there. He seemed like the #2 fan favorite. Strange decision. It makes sense narratively this whole thing was basically Maggie's fault, so indirectly she got him killed. But still, I think it was a bad decision. Especially for Asian representation.
I noticed that too. Its like he didn't realize the world just got much bigger by actually meeting Negan so his complaint about there being nothing to do rings false when there's been levels to each time Rick has had to "start over"
I complained about this around Season 4 until Alexandria but the show is actually leading somewhere narratively speaking.
I honestly think most of the fans hate-watching it or whatever have no idea what world building or atmosphere even is, or at least have no appreciation of it. Half of what I love so much about this show is how good it is at both of those things. It takes time to occasionally do bottle episodes like the one with Morgan last season, or spending the entire episode in Alexandria focused around Carol making cookies and interacting with the residents, shit like that. I love it, while others say that stuff is boring but then complain when they kill more zombies - "oh it's just the same stuff all over again".
I feel like I'm not really the core audience for this show anymore. It seems like TWD has just descended into torture porn at this point. It's like the showrunners just want to see how debased they can go with the characters. It's not enjoyable, and they could have told a story about Rick getting knocked down a few pegs without the extreme violence.
I'm personally sad about Abe because he never ceased to be funny. He was just a great character and provided some much-needed humor in an otherwise grimdark show.
But Glenn... I just can't believe they would go there. He seemed like the #2 fan favorite. Strange decision. It makes sense narratively this whole thing was basically Maggie's fault, so indirectly she got him killed. But still, I think it was a bad decision. Especially for Asian representation.
But Glenn... I just can't believe they would go there. He seemed like the #2 fan favorite. Strange decision. It makes sense narratively this whole thing was basically Maggie's fault, so indirectly she got him killed. But still, I think it was a bad decision. Especially for Asian representation.
I feel like I'm not really the core audience for this show anymore. It seems like TWD has just descended into torture porn at this point. It's like the showrunners just want to see how debased they can go with the characters. It's not enjoyable, and they could have told a story about Rick getting knocked down a few pegs without the extreme violence.
I'm personally sad about Abe because he never ceased to be funny. He was just a great character and provided some much-needed humor in an otherwise grimdark show.
But Glenn... I just can't believe they would go there. He seemed like the #2 fan favorite. Strange decision. It makes sense narratively this whole thing was basically Maggie's fault, so indirectly she got him killed. But still, I think it was a bad decision. Especially for Asian representation.
Still has her baby at least.
I think having Sasha around full-time at Hilltop will help given that she's lost a lot of people in her life as well. They'll be able to lean on one another.
That was all zombie stuff. Cartoony. Psychologically it's much easier to put those in a box. The cannibal stuff was the only really disturbing stuff up until now, aside from Daryl's time in the hunter gang. Human vs. human violence is much different, at least to me.
After having a few hours to mull it over, I think isolated this is probably the best episode in the series. Yes there was some stalling, but it was still a rollercoaster of emotion with constantly building and dropping tension that worked almost perfectly. Even if it only truly covered like 1/3 of a single comic issue, the pacing was fine thanks to the added stuff actually being compelling.
But despite all that, I just can't praise the circumstances surrounding it. The absolute bullshit of the cliffhanger, tension-sapping 8 month wait, and the fact such an iconic scene was ultimately split in two is indefensible from a writing perspective. While great right now, it could have been flat out amazing had this episode been the finale of season 6 (with the last 10 minutes of the actual finale transferred to this episode), or hell even had Abraham been killed with hints of another death coming.
At least it'll be easier on people just getting caught up with the series now, but damn is it still stupid.
