stuminus3
Member
'Cause it makes him feel good.
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The Walking Dead Season 7, Part 1 Sundays on AMC
- Thread starter SamuraiX-
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I've gotta say, the first half or 2/3rd was some of the worst and most random shit I've ever seen in TWD. I feel like The Kingdom was much larger and vastly more grand than it appeared in the show. Last episode it seemed like it was just another Woodbury or Terminus from the outside and the introduction of Ezekiel was laughably underwhelming. I honestly forgot some of the story with him though and he only got better as the episode moved forward.
By the time we get to the last few shots, I was thoroughly invested in his character and relationship with Carol (as early as it is). Man what a great character.. they accomplished so much in only like 10-15 minutes of screentime. As badly as they fucked up Carol's character (more on that in a bit), Ezekiel brings TWD back to its roots in such a desperate time.. a return to genuine compassion and morality. After one of the most brutal episodes in TV history (if not the most), I thought his conversation with Carol was incredible toward the end. Not only did he see through her shit, but he saw a possible connection with her and really took a chance with it. I like how he just casually drops the act and reaches out to her. It's kind of cool because it exposes Carol's weakness (and strength) by putting her in a vulnerable state.. where she might actually care about something other than running away. Ezekiel humanizes Carol in such a better way than anything we've seen with her character in a long time.
I just love his line delivery when Carol asks why he's helping her and he simply replies "because it feels good". That's what this show has been missing for years now.. genuine moments of humanity. It felt incredibly refreshing after the shock/gorefest of the previous episode.
Carol though.. man do they really not give a shit about her character so long as it advances the plot. We go from the shit we got last season to.. now I can't bear to watch a walker get killed because it reminds me of who they were before the outbreak? Give me a goddamn break. after six seasons this is ridiculous behavior from someone who dressed up and murdered a dozen (human) intruders just weeks before. Then she's held herself together well enough to go right back into pretending like she's an innocent woman again? Man they really don't give a shit about character consistency do they? You're tellling me she's so broken she can't bear to watch a walker die yet she's strong enough (or even cares enough) to hold up the clueless innocent woman act?
That said, I really love the direction they're going with Ezekiel and Carol and I hope they eventually lead them into a relationship. I really like him so far and he makes her character better.
By the time we get to the last few shots, I was thoroughly invested in his character and relationship with Carol (as early as it is). Man what a great character.. they accomplished so much in only like 10-15 minutes of screentime. As badly as they fucked up Carol's character (more on that in a bit), Ezekiel brings TWD back to its roots in such a desperate time.. a return to genuine compassion and morality. After one of the most brutal episodes in TV history (if not the most), I thought his conversation with Carol was incredible toward the end. Not only did he see through her shit, but he saw a possible connection with her and really took a chance with it. I like how he just casually drops the act and reaches out to her. It's kind of cool because it exposes Carol's weakness (and strength) by putting her in a vulnerable state.. where she might actually care about something other than running away. Ezekiel humanizes Carol in such a better way than anything we've seen with her character in a long time.
I just love his line delivery when Carol asks why he's helping her and he simply replies "because it feels good". That's what this show has been missing for years now.. genuine moments of humanity. It felt incredibly refreshing after the shock/gorefest of the previous episode.
Carol though.. man do they really not give a shit about her character so long as it advances the plot. We go from the shit we got last season to.. now I can't bear to watch a walker get killed because it reminds me of who they were before the outbreak? Give me a goddamn break. after six seasons this is ridiculous behavior from someone who dressed up and murdered a dozen (human) intruders just weeks before. Then she's held herself together well enough to go right back into pretending like she's an innocent woman again? Man they really don't give a shit about character consistency do they? You're tellling me she's so broken she can't bear to watch a walker die yet she's strong enough (or even cares enough) to hold up the clueless innocent woman act?
That said, I really love the direction they're going with Ezekiel and Carol and I hope they eventually lead them into a relationship. I really like him so far and he makes her character better.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
She was breaking down last season, and was in a state of just wanting to die at the beginning of the episode. She passed out for a couple days and her mood was reset. If you have ever been at that point and just taken a nap, or slept you are going to feel somewhat better. She's still cynical, but she's smart. She's a survivor and does not want to be there. So she plays nice to act as if nothing is wrong with her. That's completely within character consistency.
And it's also within that consistency for her to essentially cry about nobody walkers being taken out by random people? Bull. She's had virtually no consistency since her magic murder diary that drastically changed her character.
In fact I could have just done without any of the beginning of the episode and just jumped to Ezekiel coming clean with her after having seen her interact with others. I don't mind Carol being nice to people to get what she wants but her behavior during her meeting with Ezekiel was ridiculous and out of place after seemingly having given up on trying hours before her arrival at the kingdom.
Ah, I tend to forget that. Even then, I don't live too far from either and the weather/clothing representation still seems off. I'm a fan of the show so I don't really care and not trying to nitpick but it's just a casual observation. For example, in the same episode you may see Rick wearing a snazzy wooly jacket while Rosita is dressed like she's an extra in Jurassic Park lol. I can't imagine though how bad it sucks to wear all that when they're filming through the hotter months.
killer rin
Member
Speaking of that, they really need to show the show from the perspective of not-summer with some actual weather going on that isn't just rain. I'm almost certain the group passed through at least one or two winters, and even if it is summer all the time... where is the Tropical Storms and Hurricanes.
I would love to see the show try to deal with some different weather conditions, exploring how to deal with the apocalypse in the Snowy Winter where they need thick clothes and can't harvest crops, or a hurricane where it wreaks havoc on the community
I would like to see that, too. Especially in a world where such storms and events would come without any warning from weather alerts or news stations.
Marky Mark
Member
Embrace the contradiction.
I quite liked the episode. I'm starting to dislike Carol and I can't pinpoint why exactly. Other than that, I thought Ezekiel was great and Shiva looked really good for a TV show. Of course it's kind of weird to keep a tiger as a pet while food is rare but I'm willing to look past that because it's just cool to have a tiger in a show.
Kadin
Member
I really didn't care for the part where Ezekiel completely opened up about his true self and what he was doing and Carol simply replied, "I don't care, do what you want" or something to that affect. I get that she doesn't want to be there but she was just so completely cold even more so than I thought she could ever be. First time I really disliked her.
They're not in Atlanta though.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
She was at her end and she was wanting to die. She was emotional and having a very hard time dealing with her emotions. Her faking her emotions is how she survived the entire time in Alexandria, and Morgan had said it had been a couple days since Carol had been awake. She was essentially reset and had a clearer mindset. I just don't think you like her character or the way it has been progressing. Her actions have always been very consistent.
I'm done with Carol. Really don't care for the character or the actress. Everytime she's on Talking Dead, she looks and acts like she's about to cry. She's not really much of an entertaining talk show guest. Same with Lauren Cohan. Love Maggie and the actress is ok, but she's not a great interviewee. She tends to ramble and not be able to put coherent points together.
But back to Carol, She's been kicked out of the group and also walked away from the group once or twice. I would tell her to keep on walking at this point. Her motivations make no logical sense. I get that she's emotionally troubled. Fuck...they're all emotionally troubled 7 seasons into this. At some point you need to get over yourself and realize you are living in the closest thing to hell on earth you will find and there is no escape. There's only survival. I think I'm tired of seeing her poor attempts at severing emotional ties to the main group. If she wants to die or can't handle it anymore, just run up to the next walker and smack him in the face. Or just take a big bite of a small bullet and be done with it.
Yeah, during the episode I kept thinking: fine let her go and be done with this. But now we've got Ezekiel trying to get her back so I wonder how that plays out. I'm just kind of done with Carol at this point.
Yeah, I can't. If you honestly think Carol's actions have "always been very consistent", I don't think we're going anywhere in this conversation. Agree to disagree.
It's not just me dude.
Theanine3D
Member
Yeah, Carol's behavior bothers me too. Her need to get away from everyone and be alone seems like a really prolonged childish tantrum I'd expect from a rebellious teenager, not from what was previously one of the most mature, level-headed characters on the show.
Any person with a semblance of intelligence will realize you can only survive in this world by joining up with others. There is strength in numbers. It's like all her past character development was erased.
Any person with a semblance of intelligence will realize you can only survive in this world by joining up with others. There is strength in numbers. It's like all her past character development was erased.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Yeah this conversation is probably not going to go anywhere, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. It also doesn't mean that you or people that don't like Carol's new direction are right.
More_Badass
Member
Was she actually mature and level-headed? Or was she emotionally cold and detached so she could do the brutal things to survive?
Sometimes I feel like I'm watching a completely different show than other people.
Theanine3D
Member
I don't feel like these are mutually exclusive things, at least not in the context of the world in the show. Her previous behavior was logical. You have to do certain things to survive in this world. Sometimes you don't have a choice. Most of the brutal things she's done were in order to protect those she cared about, too.
Everything she's done since she's left Alexandria has been immature and illogical. She left an entire community that loves her and wants her there, because she didn't want to have to kill. But right after leaving, she slaughters a group of men on a pickup truck - even impales a guy through the chest - when supposedly killing was the thing she wanted to avoid doing. By leaving, she also ended up endangering her loved ones in Alexandria, because they went out to search for her and got themselves captured in the process. There was no way she didn't think they would go look for her (unless she really is that deluded and self-absorbed).
Even if you disagree with all the above (which is fine), I don't know how you can look at her recent behavior and not at least see her as incredibly selfish. It's made her a much less likable character for me.
Never said anything about being right.
Agree, nice post.. sums up my thoughts on Carol too. She abandoned logic some time ago.
Zeus The Dino
Member
Funny how for a while carol was one of the best chracters
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I kind of like the fact that she's trying to get away from killing and then finds herself in another situation where she has to kill again. It's like she can't outrun it in this world. I don't blame her for trying though...even if it isn't logical. She has done so many fucked up things and has gone through so much...I'm surprised it took this long for cracks to show.
Rick spoke to a ghost.
I still like Carol. I don't look at her actions now with any disdain, just pity mostly. I'm rooting for her to get over these feelings/find acceptance ASAP of course.
brandonh83
Banned
So I got to this scene today (playing catch-up) and yeah, completely ruined.
edit: COMPLETELY RUINED CARL
btw loving the show a lot but I feel like it's finally getting into more interesting territory for me as I knew a lot that happened up until season 3.
Gotta say that they nailed Ezekiel's casting. Khary Payton is a boss. Just his intro portrayal of Ezekiel has me way more engaged with the character on the show compared to the comic.
Agreed. Pretty impressive. It was noticeable if you focused on it too much but if I just watched the show like normal, it didn't distract me so I'd definitely call it successful work. [Minor Game of Thrones Spoilers]
Agreed. Pretty impressive. It was noticeable if you focused on it too much but if I just watched the show like normal, it didn't distract me so I'd definitely call it successful work. [Minor Game of Thrones Spoilers]
I'd easily compare the CGI quality to that of the bear they had in the pit that one season.
That was a real bear.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
It was easily among the best cgi work ever done on TV - right up there with the dragons on Game of Thrones.
Well shit then.
The true test will be to see how Shiva does interacting with humans but yeah bravo on them for going all out. Apparently it was a 4 month long extensive process to make all the magic happen.
ZackieChan
Member
Why the hell are you in this thread??? Get out!
hikarutilmitt
Member
FTFY
The dragons looked fantastic in the most recent season, but holy hell did they look bad before. Hell, the first time we see
Daenerys ride Drogon
anarckitty
Member
Definitely enjoyed that episode. After the first episode, the levity was much appreciated in my opinion. Carol and Ezekiel are totally going to hook up.
Pure fan speculation regarding Carol's inevitable demise, but this also contains COMIC SPOILERS!!!
Pure fan speculation regarding Carol's inevitable demise, but this also contains COMIC SPOILERS!!!
I think Carol will get Holly's death from the comics.
A very tiny part of me thinks she will hook up with Ezekiel and things go great. Michonne shows up and steals Ezekiel away from Carol just like she stole Tyreese from Carol in the comics. Carol then commits suicide. Admittedly, I would not be happy if they decided on the latter.
A very tiny part of me thinks she will hook up with Ezekiel and things go great. Michonne shows up and steals Ezekiel away from Carol just like she stole Tyreese from Carol in the comics. Carol then commits suicide. Admittedly, I would not be happy if they decided on the latter.
Ultra Numb
Member
My issue with Carol is that her character literally changed overnight. Arguably the biggest change any character has gone through was between S3 and S4 - and that was Carol... off-screen. Lots of people looked past it at the time because she was finally getting main-billing treatment and something significant to do but it was still bullshit.
At least with other characters such as Rick and Carl, their changes over timeskips are much more heavily foreshadowed and set-up, all Carol has is one scene and some deleted take that fans cling to. If anything she should of gotten that much more hardcore after S2, after Sophia died and she lost everything. It just felt very forced to me. Even with a character like Carl whom got a shit in S2 - still has all those major character-beats that grew him and we saw the results at the end of S2 and during S3.
It doesn't help that now the writers are regurgitating the same "Sweet and Innocent act" for three seasons now. She's slowly reminding of Daryl... as in its increasingly becoming apparent that they're running out of ideas for her.
At least with other characters such as Rick and Carl, their changes over timeskips are much more heavily foreshadowed and set-up, all Carol has is one scene and some deleted take that fans cling to. If anything she should of gotten that much more hardcore after S2, after Sophia died and she lost everything. It just felt very forced to me. Even with a character like Carl whom got a shit in S2 - still has all those major character-beats that grew him and we saw the results at the end of S2 and during S3.
It doesn't help that now the writers are regurgitating the same "Sweet and Innocent act" for three seasons now. She's slowly reminding of Daryl... as in its increasingly becoming apparent that they're running out of ideas for her.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Comics speculation that includes spoilers:
I would say Carol=Michonne with Ezikel and that Sasha is going to take Holly's spot. Would make the most sense for the plot after Holly is captured by Negan. The reason why would be that Negan would think that Sasha is Michonne (it will be dumb yes), the same way that comic Negan thought Holly was Andrea
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
You'll get no argument from me!
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Ezekial is all sort of fucking insane.
Carol's pretty much right.
Although, his insanity is not malevolent. It's actually quite.... quaint.
Carol's pretty much right.
Although, his insanity is not malevolent. It's actually quite.... quaint.
Sorry late reply. But come hell or high water, eventually things are going to pretty much square in adaptations like this.
Deaths might not end up being in the same manner or even at the same time, but a dead character in the source material will end up dead in the adaptation sooner or later. Well, most of the time anyways.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Hidden One
Member
Dang I remember everyone loved how badass Carol became now everyone hates her. I think its just the cool thing to do now.
Spiritwalker
Member
Carol needs to go back to being a ruthless badass and everything is forgiven.
Skinny Pete
Banned
Big fan of King Ezekiel and Shiva. Hope to see Shiva fuck up some Walkers and Saviors this season.
She's just a drag now.
She's like Angela when she was constantly wanting to die and Dale had to spend time making sure she didn't.
Everyone feels the same way: get over yourself lady, you can feel sorry for yourself later.
If she died right now I'd be happy.
I think those 2 little girls fucked up carol. After that Ep she hasnt been the same.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Andrea!
Megalosaro
Banned
Pretty happy with Ezekial. He was fantastic. Perfect balance of bravado and ernestness.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
New episode tonight!
Tonight's episode was written by Angela Kang, who last wrote 6.13 "The Same Boat" (the one where Carol and Maggie have to escape from Negan's people) and was directed by Alrick Riley, who last directed 6.14 "Twice as Far" (the one where Denise is killed).
The guest stars on tonight's Talking Dead are:
Scott Aukerman (actor, TripTank)
and a surprise cast member!
Tonight's episode was written by Angela Kang, who last wrote 6.13 "The Same Boat" (the one where Carol and Maggie have to escape from Negan's people) and was directed by Alrick Riley, who last directed 6.14 "Twice as Far" (the one where Denise is killed).
The guest stars on tonight's Talking Dead are:
Scott Aukerman (actor, TripTank)
and a surprise cast member!
ZackieChan
Member
Everyone liked her as a badass, now they hate her because she's not a badass, she's money and annoying. I don't see how that makes it the "cool thing", it's a natural reaction to them Tyresing her character.
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