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1/4 Wrasslin' thread of Bret Hart, Hulk Hogan, and the new Monday Night Wars (lol)

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A

avatar299

Banned
Bootaaay said:
I think the show has improved since Cornette came in. For one thing he introduced the Pick 6 rankings which actually add some importance to random matchups, but as a fan who watches the DVDs and the TV show it's obvious they still have continuity problems that stem from pre-taping so many shows in advance, but if I were watching just the TV show I doubt i'd have any problem with the continuity as they do a good job of building storylines for the TV show.
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The pick six challenge is basic booking that is no different from a beat the clock or king of the ring. i don't really see how it is great.

And if the DVD and TV shows are having continuity problems, fix them. Cancel the DVD bookings for a month. No, instead they advertise them.


[/QUOTE]Youtube - http://www.youtube.com/rohbrazil[/QUOTE]Watch RAW/TNA in HD on television or wait a few days and watch it in a youtube player.

They need to switch channels. They are not going to get new fans by pointing them to youtube. Casual or lapsed fans



Bootaaay said:
Final Battle was certainly a clusterfuck in terms of technical problems, but bear in mind that it was ROH's first ever attempt at a live show on their own and was probably just a precursor to live HDnet PPVs this year now that their previous TV PPV deal has expired - if that does happen, i'd expect HDnet to produce the PPVs like they do the TV show and also hopefully they'd consider the iPPV route for fans without HDnet/outside the US.
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TNA has never had a production that bad, and they started on PPV. They've gone web streaming only and they had great shows. FB was embarrassing. Maybe the next attempts will be better, but if you listen to Cary and Jim, it was a borderline perfect production.



Bootaaay said:
On Monday nights? Yeah, they are. Roderick Strong vs Davey Richards was better than any match on Impact or RAW - AJ/Kurt came close but was ruined by a ridiculous number of kick outs, and that was to quote TNA "a PPV quality match".
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Maybe they were the best match, but AJ/Styles was great ( to many kickouts? Have you seen the ME matches on ROH?), Kofi/Orton was great, The Miz's promo was great, Dinero's promo was great. It's not just ROH anymore



Bootaaay said:
Poor production maybe, as most indy fans don't really give a crap about production as long as the in-ring product remains exciting, but poor booking? Can't agree there, indy shows get little leeway when it comes to poor booking - just look how ROH's fanbase has dipped since Gabe left and Pearce took over, or how quickly people abandonned FIP once Punk & Homicide stopped working there. I might be one of the few who enjoys ROH's weekly show, but many don't watch it because of some percieved poor booking, same reason why many no longer watch ROH's dvd shows. Just look at how the fans reacted to Aries vs Black in a 60-minute time-limit draw at Final Battle and the amount of flak the booking team received for playing out the match that way.
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And instead of Jim commenting on the boo's at FB, he bitches about TNA, which garnered 2.9 million views.

No one is talking about that though, because we have to bitch about TNA and RAW.
 
D

DMczaf

Member
2zzls1i.jpg
 
G

GDGF

Soothsayer
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
Well the announcers did call it RAW.
Click to expand...

Yeah most of the matches are ones cut for time from the other shows, so you'll hear the announcers say RAW, Smackdown, and ECW, but unless you were at the shows they're all new.

It's something to watch until Monday, anyway :)
 
F

Forkball

Member
Superstars is actually pretty good. You get at least three matches in one hour (which TNA and WWE sometime fail to do), get to see all three brands, and it gives the midcard guys a bit more TV time. There are also a couple of storylines that were created on or progressed during the show.
 
P

Pimpwerx

Member
Net_Wrecker said:
lol @ the Russo blog. If THAT was the show they came out with after working on it for 6 WEEKS, then God help TNA.
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I ask again. Why does a BAD soap opera writer continue to get work in this industry? Worse yet, why does he have so much control? PEACE.
 
R

RBH

Member
WWE's Survivor Series PPV from November 2009 drew a surprisingly-low 225,000 buys according to WWE's corporate business report released on Thursday.

The PPV buy total is down 29.5 percent from the 2008 Survivor Series, which drew 319,000 buys. The 2007 version drew 341,000 buys. The 2009 version of one of WWE's "Big Four" PPVs is down 34.0 percent compared to the 2007 event.

The PPV buy total is an estimate before WWE reports the official number in their fourth quarter-hour earnings report, which will most-likely be announced in late January or February.

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_New...cle_37977.shtml
 
R

Raw64life

Member
I'd love for them to go back to having 4-5 PPVs a year so they actually mean something. Fat chance of that happening anytime soon though.
 
Y

yankeeforever2

Member
Raw64life said:
I'd love for them to go back to having 4-5 PPVs a year so they actually mean something. Fat chance of that happening anytime soon though.
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They really should at least get it to 7 or 8, what is it right now 10?
 
P

Penguin

Member
I think the WWE should increase the number of PPVs, we need at least 2 a month really, I mean no need for build up if just gonna be the same match anyhow. :lol

And this has been a good Smackdown so far.

Dave is much better as a heel.
Ziggler/Kane was solid.
Liking the women's storyline.
And of course Punk.

Oh and the Canadians. Let's see if they go anywhere with Hart Dynasty.
 
N

Net_Wrecker

Member
Man that ending SUCKED. WTF. I'm supposed to believe that the Undertaker kept knocking them out? So stupid. Aside from that, it was a good show.
 
K

kobashi100

Banned
avatar299 said:
I love Cornette, but he was full of shit with a lot of that interview. He ignores the cardinal rule of wrestling( give fans what they want. We wanted to see Bret) bashes the females of TNA for being "girls", goes out of his way to bash all the young talent RAW showcased( the Miz delivered a better character promo than any I have seen in ROH entire television run.) and ends shilling for ROH, which let's be honest has so many problems right now regarding production values and continuity that it often comes as amateurish. ( Fix this? Why? As Cornette said in that rant, wrestling is entertainment on a cheap budget so why improve)

Cornette is in ROH. He now has power along with a voice. Either he improves his own damn show or he shuts up
Click to expand...

The Women's matches in TNA are pretty shitty though. When there is a match as half as good as this then people can say TNA women's wrestling is good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zADl2VNIZA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtP0owmoj0M&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gmxiw2oSp1g&feature=related

Just listened to the cornette interview and from what he is saying kinda makes sense. I never watched any show as it TNA and WWE is not my thing at all but seriously why are TNA trying to bring back WCW Nitro. Why are all the old guys back?

do people seriously wanna see Hogan, Nash, Hall etc back doing there thing?
 
B

British Monsoon

Member
avatar299 said:
The pick six challenge is basic booking that is no different from a beat the clock or king of the ring. i don't really see how it is great.
Click to expand...

Basic booking it may be but like I said, it adds some meaning to random matches - whereas before you might have say Roddy facing Kevin Steen for no reason whatsoever, now there's some meaning to the matchup because it has Pick 6 implications.

avatar299 said:
And if the DVD and TV shows are having continuity problems, fix them. Cancel the DVD bookings for a month. No, instead they advertise them.
Click to expand...

It's not as simple a you saying "having problems? fix them!" and voila problems are fixed just like that. The only way to fix the continuity issues would be to take matches out of the DVD tapings to be used on the HDnet shows, rather than just having an entire taping devoted to HDnet. The problem is that HDnet are fronting all the cash to film the TV show, and they want to do it in Philly. If ROH could somehow convince them to take the HDnet cameras on the road to film a match or two from each taping, then that would allow ROH to put together a show including matches that took place relatively recently, rather than recording 6 weeks worth of TV over a single weekend.

avatar299 said:
Watch RAW/TNA in HD on television or wait a few days and watch it in a youtube player.

They need to switch channels. They are not going to get new fans by pointing them to youtube. Casual or lapsed fans
Click to expand...

Again, if only it were as simple as saying "They need to switch channels!!" - where else are they going to find a channel willing to put them on at a primetime Monday night slot and willing to pay for filming, producing and editing the whole show? Nowhere. ROH can't afford to run a TV show elsewhere, so youtube is a free alternative that allows thousands of fans to watch each week - and hell, ROH is after wrestling fans; most of them shouldn't really care in what format the show comes in, as long as they are after good wrestling.

avatar299 said:
Maybe they were the best match, but AJ/Styles was great ( to many kickouts? Have you seen the ME matches on ROH?), Kofi/Orton was great, The Miz's promo was great, Dinero's promo was great. It's not just ROH anymore
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Yeah, the whole 'a million and one near falls' thing has been an indy staple for years, but never have I seen two finishing moves devalued so much as in AJ/Kurt - watch Strong/Richards and you'll see a hell of a lot of near falls, but you'll never once see either guy devalue their finisher by using it again and again and again. For Kurt's Ankle Lock it makes more sense as it's a submission designed to wear the opponent down, but AJ needing FOUR Styles Clashes and TWO springboard 430's to defeat Kurt is overkill. Not even mentioning the bumps that no one should ever kick out of (Angle Slam from the top turnbuckle, should have been it. No question).

avatar299 said:
And instead of Jim commenting on the boo's at FB, he bitches about TNA, which garnered 2.9 million views.
Click to expand...

Why would he comment on the fuckups at FB? He's the executive producer of the HDnet show. It's his job to promote that, not bitch that the company he's working for is bush leage and never going to ammount to anything compared to TNA or WWE.

kobashi100 said:
The Women's matches in TNA are pretty shitty though. When there is a match as half as good as this then people can say TNA women's wrestling is good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zADl2VNIZA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtP0o...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gmxiw...eature=related
Click to expand...

Satomura vs Aja Kong from 07 was the last truly exceptional Joshi match i've seen, their whole fued was just plain awesome. If TNA wants to have matches anywhere near the calibur of classic Joshi they need to start using some of their workers better, because Alissa Flash (Cheerleader Melissa) & Daffney could tear the house down given the oppertunity.
 
L

lordmrw

Member
Raw64life said:
I'd love for them to go back to having 4-5 PPVs a year so they actually mean something. Fat chance of that happening anytime soon though.
Click to expand...


Seriously. They really only need 4: Wrestlemania, Survivor Series, Royal Rumble, and Summerslam, with Hell in a Cell a maybe. Way too many shows, and not enough time to properly develop storylines and give them the time needed to generate heat.
 
D

DMczaf

Member
Lunchbox said:
havent been paying any attention since monday...

is bret back this monday? or was it a one night thing
Click to expand...

He's signed til Wrestlemania. We all figure this leads to Bret vs Vince in some match that both can work (Street Fight?), but we have no idea what they are going to do with Bret between now and then.
 
D

DMczaf

Member
Just stick with this thread for January, we're not going to see a wrasslin thread with over 2000 replies again til maybe TNA's Monday show is official.
 
F

Forkball

Member
Just stick with this thread for January since most of us are talking about stuff that has nothing to do with the 1/4 show. Someone needs to change "1/4" to "January" though so it will be easier to search for.
 
A

Alex Anderson

Member
RunWhiteBoyRun said:
F4Wonline.com is reporting that Ludvig Borga died yesterday in Finland.
Click to expand...

Not surprised. Seems his life had become a real mess.

I just watched the 1993 Survivor Series last night, too. Foreign Fanatics :eek:
 
B

Burai

shitonmychest57
avatar299 said:
And instead of Jim commenting on the boo's at FB, he bitches about TNA, which garnered 2.9 million views.

No one is talking about that though, because we have to bitch about TNA and RAW.
Click to expand...

You need to appreciate the Jim Cornette is working with pennies over at ROH. All of their talent is swallowed up by WWE and TNA as soon as it shows a bit of promise and there's no way to compete with that. They spend hours building guys up on TV to have them disappear before they even get to the PPV.

If Jim Cornette had Dixie Carter's money, then you could make comparisons. But he hasn't. Impact was a mess and it really shouldn't have been. Not with the time and money they had.
 
A

avatar299

Banned
Bootaaay said:
Basic booking it may be but like I said, it adds some meaning to random matches - whereas before you might have say Roddy facing Kevin Steen for no reason whatsoever, now there's some meaning to the matchup because it has Pick 6 implications.
Click to expand...
shrugs..fair enough



Bootaaay said:
It's not as simple a you saying "having problems? fix them!" and voila problems are fixed just like that. The only way to fix the continuity issues would be to take matches out of the DVD tapings to be used on the HDnet shows, rather than just having an entire taping devoted to HDnet. The problem is that HDnet are fronting all the cash to film the TV show, and they want to do it in Philly. If ROH could somehow convince them to take the HDnet cameras on the road to film a match or two from each taping, then that would allow ROH to put together a show including matches that took place relatively recently, rather than recording 6 weeks worth of TV over a single weekend.
Click to expand...
And they had months to do this. They never did. They have announced no plans to do so either. They know they have a problem and they aren't even bothering to fix it.

ROH plans their PPV about 3-6 months ahead. They had ample time to sync up the continuity or at least change the matches so it makes so it balances the booking on the show.


Bootaaay said:
Again, if only it were as simple as saying "They need to switch channels!!" - where else are they going to find a channel willing to put them on at a primetime Monday night slot and willing to pay for filming, producing and editing the whole show? Nowhere. ROH can't afford to run a TV show elsewhere, so youtube is a free alternative that allows thousands of fans to watch each week - and hell, ROH is after wrestling fans; most of them shouldn't really care in what format the show comes in, as long as they are after good wrestling.
Click to expand...
They don't need a monday night primetime slot, but they need to get off HDNet. HDnet may be paying the costs now, but as time goes by they are going to want a return on their investment, and a ROH that has seen little growth isn't good, especially when their closet competition is growing. Not only that but HDNet is becoming a more niche and defunct channel. HDnet has been cut from a ton of homes and quite honestly that channels may be numbered.

In a perfect world, yeah wrestling fans should be content with youtube, but they aren't because they have seen better. ROH is basically telling fans, new or old "take it or leave it, we don't care what you think." This may have worked in the 80's when their was little to no competition for many people outside of tape traders, but not anymore.


Bootaaay said:
Yeah, the whole 'a million and one near falls' thing has been an indy staple for years, but never have I seen two finishing moves devalued so much as in AJ/Kurt - watch Strong/Richards and you'll see a hell of a lot of near falls, but you'll never once see either guy devalue their finisher by using it again and again and again. For Kurt's Ankle Lock it makes more sense as it's a submission designed to wear the opponent down, but AJ needing FOUR Styles Clashes and TWO springboard 430's to defeat Kurt is overkill. Not even mentioning the bumps that no one should ever kick out of (Angle Slam from the top turnbuckle, should have been it. No question).
Click to expand...
Should I really start a list of great indy matches that have had multiple finishers? AJ and Angle told a good story in the ring and kept an athletic level high all during the match. Maybe they used to many finishers to get the guys over on a big show, but no way was that match lesser because of it


Bootaaay said:
Why would he comment on the fuckups at FB? He's the executive producer of the HDnet show. It's his job to promote that, not bitch that the company he's working for is bush leage and never going to ammount to anything compared to TNA or WWE.
Jim Cornette, while still at ROH parades himself as an independent voice in wrestling and is treated as such in wrestling, while shilling for ROH and making as many excuses as possible. Should he go out of his way to bash ROH. Probably not, but don't start posturing with this "pact with the wrestling fans" bullshit, diss the knockouts for being "girls" and bash WWE/TNA for giving wrestling fans what they want, which is what they did on Monday night as if you are an independent guy. You are not Lance Storm Jim. Not anymore.

You need to appreciate the Jim Cornette is working with pennies over at ROH. All of their talent is swallowed up by WWE and TNA as soon as it shows a bit of promise and there's no way to compete with that. They spend hours building guys up on TV to have them disappear before they even get to the PPV.

If Jim Cornette had Dixie Carter's money, then you could make comparisons. But he hasn't. Impact was a mess and it really shouldn't have been. Not with the time and money they had.
Click to expand...
I sympathize with ROH losing their guys
though i wonder how the hell does Tyler Black have a contract and so many other guys don't
but the production value has no excuse. TNA had less money and no backing at the same level ROH has now with HDNet when they started, and not a single weekly PPV came off that bad.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
B

British Monsoon

Member
avatar299 said:
Should I really start a list of great indy matches that have had multiple finishers? AJ and Angle told a good story in the ring and kept an athletic level high all during the match. Maybe they used to many finishers to get the guys over on a big show, but no way was that match lesser because of it
Click to expand...

Well we're just going to have to agree to disagree here, because as soon as AJ kicked out of that top rope Angle Slam I totally lost any suspension of disbelief I had for that matchup and just wanted it to end - the fact that he then proceded to hit a further two Styles Clashes, two springboard 430's and escape the Ankle Lock (+ Leg Lock variation) a ton of times only served to exasperate matters. Don't get me wrong, it was a great main event and easily one of the top 3 matches on TV that week, but maybe, just maybe it didn't need to run quite as long and they could have given some much needed extra time to Pope vs Wolfe, which was a great matchup marred by only being given a few minutes.
 
N

Net_Wrecker

Member
Bootaaay said:
Well we're just going to have to agree to disagree here, because as soon as AJ kicked out of that top rope Angle Slam I totally lost any suspension of disbelief I had for that matchup and just wanted it to end - the fact that he then proceded to hit a further two Styles Clashes, two springboard 430's and escape the Ankle Lock (+ Leg Lock variation) a ton of times only served to exasperate matters. Don't get me wrong, it was a great main event and easily one of the top 3 matches on TV that week, but maybe, just maybe it didn't need to run quite as long and they could have given some much needed extra time to Pope vs Wolfe, which was a great matchup marred by only being given a few minutes.
Click to expand...

Dawgz, HBK/Taker from WM25 which many consider the MOTY 2009 was essentially the same thing, maybe even worse with HBK kicking out of literally ALL of the Undertaker's signature and finishing moves even AFTER taking a hard bump on the outside, and wrestling for like 10 minutes before that. PPV style matches these days call for a lot of long 2 count kick outs of big time moves.

PS, HBK also kicked out of a top rope Angle Slam in one of their matches.
 
Nameless

Nameless

Member
I'll admit I do want to see where they're going to go with the whole Hart thing. Jobs will be scrwed, obviously..or is it screws will be jobbed? Anyway, the thing that has me most intrigued is the whole CM Jesus storyline & stable they're setting up. The cult leader beard is awesome:lol and he plays the role perfectly.
 
M

Mr. Sam

Member
Nameless said:
I'll admit I do want to see where they're going to go with the whole Hart thing. Jobs will be scrwed, obviously..or is it screws will be jobbed? Anyway, the thing that has me most intrigued is the whole CM Jesus storyline & stable they're setting up. The cult leader beard is awesome:lol and he plays the role perfectly.
Click to expand...

I stopped watching SD when Punk was dethroned but this intrigues me.

Edit: Some of these Mattel toys are just... UGH.
 
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