Support NeoGAF

[Drinky Crow]

This is very helpful!

One thing I'm slightly confused about, they talk about smooth throttle throughout the turn, but then later they talk about rolling off the throttle after you enter... Am I just confused here?

I had the understanding that you needed to increase throttle throughout the turn... Do you only roll off if you entered too aggressively?

Edit: Are there any tracks in WA, Drinky? A lot of this seems like stuff I would want to practice on the track, not on the road - especially the quick turn and the more aggressive leaning positions.

Edit Edit: Are there any advanced riding schools, with actual classes that last longer than just a single day for a few hours? I intend on taking the beginner, intermediate, and advanced courses at the Everett motorcycle safety school, but after those, I can't find any options for further education.

as you approach the curve, roll off the throttle (downshift if you'll need more torque) and countersteer. as you enter the APEX, start the lean (kiss the mirror) then smooth roll ON the throttle.

yeah, there's track days at the ridge in shelton that are cheap and fun, with great beginner's groups. i did one last year and it was REALLY helpful. if you (and other seattle gaf riders) wanna plan one, i can work with 2fast to set up group rates.

for low-speed, there's the police training class which i'd like to take. it's $1000, but they let you use a police fjr and drop the fuck out of it. :-D for high-speed, the california race school has regular classes at the ridge (plus you get to ride an s1000rr, hellz yeah)

 

[LeroyPantwether]

Still have to clean her up after the super long ride home, but this is what I ended up with. And, gzz what a ride home it was. I bought the bike in Yuma; which is right on the Cali/Arizona/Mexican border. Thus, I had to ride 200 miles in 110 degree heat. Not to mention, the seller took the license plates so I had to drive home with no tags. Funnily enough, the border-patrol-checkpoint-man gave me no hassle and just wanted to know if I was an American citizen . Oh and also, I forgot my jacket so I had to ride home in a t-shirt..my arms are very sun burnt.

 

[opticalmace]

as you approach the curve, roll off the throttle (downshift if you'll need more torque). as you enter the APEX, start the lean (kiss the mirror) and countersteer, then smooth roll ON the throttle.

yeah, there's track days at the ridge in shelton that are cheap and fun, with great beginner's groups. i did one last year and it was REALLY helpful. if you (and other seattle gaf riders) wanna plan one, i can work with 2fast to set up group rates.

for low-speed, there's the police training class which i'd like to take. it's $1000, but they let you use a police fjr and drop the fuck out of it. :-D for high-speed, the california race school has regular classes at the ridge (plus you get to ride an s1000rr, hellz yeah)

Agreed, except you mean the start of the corner, not the apex. If you haven't started counter-steering by the apex you're SOL.

 

[Drinky Crow]

oops, yer right. i am tired and sunburnt!

 

[Fallout-NL]

Still have to clean her up after the super long ride home, but this is what I ended up with. And, gzz what a ride home it was. I bought the bike in Yuma; which is right on the Cali/Arizona/Mexican border. Thus, I had to ride 200 miles in 110 degree heat. Not to mention, the seller took the license plates so I had to drive home with no tags. Funnily enough, the border-patrol-checkpoint-man gave me no hassle and just wanted to know if I was an American citizen . Oh and also, I forgot my jacket so I had to ride home in a t-shirt..my arms are very sun burnt.

Congrats! Nice looking bike, I prefer the faired model over the naked FZs. Good thing you found one with an exhaust upgrade already fitted.

 

[maxheadwound]

Still have to clean her up after the super long ride home, but this is what I ended up with. And, gzz what a ride home it was. I bought the bike in Yuma; which is right on the Cali/Arizona/Mexican border. Thus, I had to ride 200 miles in 110 degree heat. Not to mention, the seller took the license plates so I had to drive home with no tags. Funnily enough, the border-patrol-checkpoint-man gave me no hassle and just wanted to know if I was an American citizen . Oh and also, I forgot my jacket so I had to ride home in a t-shirt..my arms are very sun burnt.

Grats on the new bike... its looks awesome... I like the dark screen

 

[LeroyPantwether]

Thanks! , I think the fairings and windscreen are going to stay for now. I do way too much highway riding to get ride of them. I plan to convert the bike to the european fzn version eventually. However for now, I am just going to enjoy riding what amounts to a significantly more comfortable bike than what I was on.

I did have a question. When I was looking at preowned bikes I noticed many were equipped with a "power commander". Is this a good upgrade? I did a small bit of research and it seems to allow for custom mapping of fuel injection? My limited understanding leads me to believe that custom maps might be nice for a bike like the fz6 which is a little twitchy in the lower rpms. Thoughts?

 

[Dougald]

That is a niiiice looking bike, congrats! That underseat exhaust looks awesome

With the power commander I understand it just lets you re-map the bike more easily? I'm not sure how much use it would be unless you're doing trackdays, but I don't know much about that side of things.

 

[LeroyPantwether]

Thanks I am very happy with it but it is not without its faults. The previous seller who installed the integrated tail light did a slightly dodgy job, and the rear light and fairing need to be tightened. Also, as is the case with any different bike, the transmission is going to take some getting used to. While the fazer shifts a great deal smoother than the f650, first gear is awfully grabby/stally. Also, once when I got off the highway and coasted up to a stop, the bike died when I put it in first gear with the clutch pulled. Doesnt seem like anything serious, I just am not used to having to keep a bike's rpms up or something.. Unless it is something serious ...

 

[Dougald]

Is the idle speed right? Might need adjusting, but no idea how you'd do that on an efi bike. I had an issue on the pan european where it would die and I just upped the idle as it was set too low

 

[Drinky Crow]

run some startron or other fi cleaner through a few tanks, and change the oil with a good synth.

some bikes, especially med/big displacement yami's and kawasaki's, prefer to be shifted in the lower gears with a preloaded lever -- press your toe against the lever before the shift and just lightly pull in the clutch. my neighbor's fz1 is happier with clutchless upshifts entirely, where i drive the revs up and while preloading, very briefly roll a bit off/on the throttle to engage the gear dogs.

 

[LeroyPantwether]

thats what I figured. I emailed a dealership to do a post purchase inspection and check /adjust the idle speed. When it does idle it is not quite as steady as I feel it should be; though it stays in the recomended ranges. It might also be having a bit of low rpm issues if the fuel system wasnt mapped for the new exhaust. To be fair I have pretty much no idea what I am talking about and am just regurgitating quick google queries. Either way, I am going to have that sorted it asap because there are way too many stop lights in town to be dealing with a stubborn 1st gear.

edit: @ drinky yea the cleaner is a good idea too. The guy said the bike sat for 360 days a year, so some of the fuel in the lines was prob pretty low quality. Ha but I am not going to lie, clutchless shifting sounds a bit beyond my skill level. I just learned how to operate a manual gearbox and I am still not entirely familiar with the intricacies of how they function. The pre loading I can def do though, and will try

 

[Dougald]

If it's a rough idle I'd do what drinky suggests and run some cleaner through it. I find that running some decent premium fuel through it can help too, as they tend to put some additives in there. I've used silkolene in the past with my carb bikes. The Bonneville always needed it and premium fuel to be happy in the winter

 

[Drinky Crow]

if it's been sitting awhile, the gearbox may be dry (or suffering friction from dirty oil) and that could be causing the harsh low gear shifting. i'd do a complete oil change and run it hard a bit to get the new oil into the gearbox.

dougald: i'm the same way -- i always run fuel injection cleaner every other tank. even keep a bottle in my tail bag! i commute onna bike, and i like a clean idle at the ten zillion stoplights i hafta endure daily.

 

[Drinky Crow]

is the aftermarket exhaust a slip-on or a new subsystem entirely? slip-on shouldn't require a retune.

 

[LeroyPantwether]

If it's a rough idle I'd do what drinky suggests and run some cleaner through it. I find that running some decent premium fuel through it can help too, as they tend to put some additives in there. I've used silkolene in the past with my carb bikes. The Bonneville always needed it and premium fuel to be happy in the winter

See, I'm with you. I've always ran premium in all my vehicles, but the Owners' manual of the bike specifically calls for regular unleaded so I was not sure.

if it's been sitting awhile, the gearbox may be dry (or suffering friction from dirty oil) and that could be causing the harsh low gear shifting. i'd do a complete oil change and run it hard a bit to get the new oil into the gearbox.

dougald: i'm the same way -- i always run fuel injection cleaner every other tank. even keep a bottle in my tail bag! i commute onna bike, and i like a clean idle at the ten zillion stoplights i hafta endure daily.

The seller said he did a oil change and spark plug replacement less than a month ago in preparation for the sale, but perhaps it would be worth changing again just to be sure.

is the aftermarket exhaust a slip-on or a new subsystem entirely? slip-on shouldn't require a retune.

just a slip on, so that's good to know.

 

[Izayoi]

as you approach the curve, roll off the throttle (downshift if you'll need more torque) and countersteer. as you enter the APEX, start the lean (kiss the mirror) then smooth roll ON the throttle.

yeah, there's track days at the ridge in shelton that are cheap and fun, with great beginner's groups. i did one last year and it was REALLY helpful. if you (and other seattle gaf riders) wanna plan one, i can work with 2fast to set up group rates.

for low-speed, there's the police training class which i'd like to take. it's $1000, but they let you use a police fjr and drop the fuck out of it. :-D for high-speed, the california race school has regular classes at the ridge (plus you get to ride an s1000rr, hellz yeah)

Thanks for all of your help, man! Really, this thread is seriously the greatest thing. I've learned so much from just lurking the earlier pages. I appreciate you guys! :>

So, for a beginner track day, how much experience should you have? I've never been on a track in my life, not even in a car or on a dirt bike, so I have no idea what to expect.

I'm feeling more comfident now (did another 100 miles today), but I'm still way too timid in my corners - I'm just not comfortable with pushing it any further than I am right now.

I also had a very close call a couple days ago that didn't help. Was in a blind corner on a new road and someone's gravel driveway had really spilled out onto the asphalt - tail end came out from underneath me and I thought for sure I was going to lowside it. Thankfully I was able to not panic and just let the bike recover itself. It kind of shook me up a bit, and I feel like it set me back a ways...

Ah well, just going to keep putting more miles on it. I understand the theory pretty well at this point I think, but with nobody super experienced to ride with and give me feedback, I just can't tell sometimes what I'm doing wrong or why I'm not as confident as I feel I should be.

 

[Dougald]

Maybe worth checking if you have any Advanced Rider groups near you? I don't know if they have them in the US, but here we have a few organizations who will give extra advanced rider training and feedback for road positioning, etc. They have always been a bit too obsessed with high-vis and "making progress" for my liking, but can offer some good feedback. Confidence will come with practice too, of course.

 

[TCRS]

Still have to clean her up after the super long ride home, but this is what I ended up with. And, gzz what a ride home it was. I bought the bike in Yuma; which is right on the Cali/Arizona/Mexican border. Thus, I had to ride 200 miles in 110 degree heat. Not to mention, the seller took the license plates so I had to drive home with no tags. Funnily enough, the border-patrol-checkpoint-man gave me no hassle and just wanted to know if I was an American citizen . Oh and also, I forgot my jacket so I had to ride home in a t-shirt..my arms are very sun burnt.

beautiful. love the dark screen.

 

[opticalmace]

Thanks for all of your help, man! Really, this thread is seriously the greatest thing. I've learned so much from just lurking the earlier pages. I appreciate you guys! :>

So, for a beginner track day, how much experience should you have? I've never been on a track in my life, not even in a car or on a dirt bike, so I have no idea what to expect.

I'm feeling more comfident now (did another 100 miles today), but I'm still way too timid in my corners - I'm just not comfortable with pushing it any further than I am right now.

I also had a very close call a couple days ago that didn't help. Was in a blind corner on a new road and someone's gravel driveway had really spilled out onto the asphalt - tail end came out from underneath me and I thought for sure I was going to lowside it. Thankfully I was able to not panic and just let the bike recover itself. It kind of shook me up a bit, and I feel like it set me back a ways...

Ah well, just going to keep putting more miles on it. I understand the theory pretty well at this point I think, but with nobody super experienced to ride with and give me feedback, I just can't tell sometimes what I'm doing wrong or why I'm not as confident as I feel I should be.

One tip is never go faster than you can evaluate the road surface. You never know what's going to be around the corner, like the gravel you mentioned, and you need to have enough time and space to adjust your line if necessary. If you have to make corrections, try to do it smoothly (but not necesarily slowly), so as to not upset the bike.

 

[Dougald]

I hate the Pro-Bolt website. It's like crack for people obsessed with working on their bikes - I just had to remind myself that just because I can replace all my fairing and engine bolts with Gold Titanium bolts to go with the black/gold Street Triple, doesn't mean it's a good idea.

I actually just ordered one of those Speed Bleeder screws for when I eventually teardown my rear brake caliper - anyone have any experience with these? At £10 a go I decided to order just one, and leave the front calipers for now, but after spending way too long bleeding my brakes last time, I feel like it might be a good idea.

 

[Mengy]

One tip is never go faster than you can evaluate the road surface. You never know what's going to be around the corner, like the gravel you mentioned, and you need to have enough time and space to adjust your line if necessary. If you have to make corrections, try to do it smoothly (but not necesarily slowly), so as to not upset the bike.

This is good advice. I'm a Harley rider so I don't care about "track days" or grinding knees in the curves and most of the time I pretty much follow the speed limit and take my time wherever I go. The few times that I DO speed or push it in the twisties it is always on roads that I know and have been on before. I like knowing the lay of a road before I push the bike (and myself) on it.

For the most part though I'm a very defensive rider.

 

[Dougald]

All good advice, in fact yesterday I came to a roundabout that most cars take around 35mph. If I hadn't dropped to 25, I wouldn't have seen the massive, gravel & pothole-filled surface on the other side that had been obscured by trees in the middle. Even after dropping to 20, I still felt the rear wobble a little.

 

[Damaged]

Okay, this feels a really stupid question after all this talk of safe riding etc,...

Now, not that I would suggest anyone else do this but I seem to be struggling to use all of the lean angle on my front tyre. My rear is run out right to the edge and then some but there still seems to be about an 8mm strip on the front I cant get to. Any suggestions? I have tried trailing the brake a little harder into the bends which helped a little but the rear starts moving about more than I like at that point

Rear tyre


Front Tyre


I know I'm stupid doing this on the road etc..

 

[StuKen]

Nobody is going to call that a chicken strip. I'd imagine thats as much as you are reasonably going to get given the difference in tracking on the front and rear contact patches as you corner. Its just a function of the differing tire carcass radius. A 90/17 - 120/17 simply is going to have a more linear tracking than a 120/17 - 190/17

 

[Damaged]

Nobody is going to call that a chicken strip. I'd imagine thats as much as you are reasonably going to get given the difference in tracking on the front and rear contact patches as you corner. Its just a function of the differing tire carcass radius. A 90/17 - 120/17 simply is going to have a more linear tracking than a 120/17 - 190/17

Yeah I'm not bothered about it being called a chicken strip, just niggles at me that I cant get there. Have seen a few other Dorsoduro's with the front right to the edge but not as hard over on the rear so I wonder if its as simple as tyre pressure's maybe?

 

[maxheadwound]

Okay, this feels a really stupid question after all this talk of safe riding etc,...

Now, not that I would suggest anyone else do this but I seem to be struggling to use all of the lean angle on my front tyre. My rear is run out right to the edge and then some but there still seems to be about an 8mm strip on the front I cant get to. Any suggestions? I have tried trailing the brake a little harder into the bends which helped a little but the rear starts moving about more than I like at that point

Rear tyre


Front Tyre


I know I'm stupid doing this on the road etc..

I am out, I don't ride enough and on good enough roads to use that parts of my tyres. I am very impressed with that lean angle.

 

[Gritesh]

Impressive on that rear man!

I haven't ever ran out of edge on mine and really I don't have the roads around here to push it on, but good on you for getting that over like that!

 

[StuKen]

Yeah I'm not bothered about it being called a chicken strip, just niggles at me that I cant get there. Have seen a few other Dorsoduro's with the front right to the edge but not as hard over on the rear so I wonder if its as simple as tyre pressure's maybe?

I would be very wary pushing the front as aggressively as is required to scrub that last few mm. Lowering the pressure and an aggressive turn in while on the front brake are your best way of doing but if you are feeling the rear slide out there is already the chance you're in for a nasty high side if you push a bit harder. But if its a Dorsoduro you could just light up the rear, supermoto the hell out of it and get the bike as upright as you can before the rear regains traction and it decides a rider is no longer required. I dont endorse this method.

 

[Damaged]

I am out, I don't ride enough and on good enough roads to use that parts of my tyres. I am very impressed with that lean angle.

Impressive on that rear man!

I haven't ever ran out of edge on mine and really I don't have the roads around here to push it on, but good on you for getting that over like that!

Thanks

I would be very wary pushing the front as aggressively as is required to scrub that last few mm. Lowering the pressure and an aggressive turn in while on the front brake are your best way of doing but if you are feeling the rear slide out there is already the chance you're in for a nasty high side if you push a bit harder. But if its a Dorsoduro you could just light up the rear, supermoto the hell out of it and get the bike as upright as you can before the rear regains traction and it decides a rider is no longer required. I dont endorse this method.

Yeah I have already tried backing it into the bends and that just keeps the front more upright sadly, I think a little less pressure on the front tyre and harder on the front brake trailing into the bend. Don't mind getting close to a high side as I can do a little bit about it, just worried about folding the front more than anything.

 

[Colonel_Forbin]

I bought a CB500X about three weeks ago. I'm 39 and this is my first bike ever. I got a thousand miles on it going all over the back roads of NE Ohio. Everyone who can should ride a motorcycle.

 

[Dougald]

Congrats! How are you finding the cb500x? It looks like a great all around bike

 

[Damaged]

Love the styling on that cb500x, sounds like you are enjoying it immensely

 

[Fallout-NL]

I bought a CB500X about three weeks ago. I'm 39 and this is my first bike ever. I got a thousand miles on it going all over the back roads of NE Ohio. Everyone who can should ride a motorcycle.

Why yes, they should . Congrats!

Also, Damaged, that is nice work on those tires. Wouldn't worry too much about that last bit, I expect that some of it has to do with not being able to blindly pick the ideal line on public roads because you have to account for other traffic. You'll always have to hold back at least a little bit.

Spoiler

stay safe dude

 

[Drinky Crow]

love the cb500x. i started riding at age 37 myself, so one's never too old!

 

[thesoapster]

just go with the flow

It is worth noting that their tire profiles and compounds are not what we use on our street bikes.

 

[Damaged]

Why yes, they should . Congrats!

Also, Damaged, that is nice work on those tires. Wouldn't worry too much about that last bit, I expect that some of it has to do with not being able to blindly pick the ideal line on public roads because you have to account for other traffic. You'll always have to hold back at least a little bit.

Spoiler

stay safe dude

Yeah, I know I have to hold a little bit back, I'm not going ten tenth's that's for sure. Have never done a track day as I know I would just go all out and end up coming off. I don't wear knee sliders so I'm still not hanging off as much as I could which would probably help with the angle.

It is worth noting that their tire profiles and compounds are not what we use on our street bikes.

Totally! Used some road legal cut slick race tyres on my old KTM once and the levels of grip were astounding, shame they only lasted about 150 miles haha

 

[Dougald]

Definitely wouldn't recommend a Chinese bike to someone who doesn't like to do any maintenance - this weeks problem was the brake light stuck on permanently... turns out the spring they use that links the rear brake lever to the switch is way too short.. had to stretch it out a bit. It's still a pretty great little commuter for the money, but they certainly aren't maintenance free.



I've been attacking the front downpipes on the Street 3 with a brass brush and Nevr Dull, which is great stuff. Pipes have gone from a dull brown to a very deep bronze. Reckon a few more weeks and it'll look damn nice - the pipes are stainless so they just need a bit of elbow grease to come back I reckon.

 

[maxheadwound]

Definitely wouldn't recommend a Chinese bike to someone who doesn't like to do any maintenance - this weeks problem was the brake light stuck on permanently... turns out the spring they use that links the rear brake lever to the switch is way too short.. had to stretch it out a bit. It's still a pretty great little commuter for the money, but they certainly aren't maintenance free.



I've been attacking the front downpipes on the Street 3 with a brass brush and Nevr Dull, which is great stuff. Pipes have gone from a dull brown to a very deep bronze. Reckon a few more weeks and it'll look damn nice - the pipes are stainless so they just need a bit of elbow grease to come back I reckon.

Nice man... would be nice to do a before and after photo

 

[maxheadwound]

Here is a quick vid of the new Harley Livewire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njFeDS1lQY8

 

[Fallout-NL]

The entire concept of an electric Harley Davidson wouldn't have seemed out of place as product placement in some near future science fiction film a few years ago. Pretty cool to live in an age where this kind of stuff is almost coming to market. (regardless of how much of a beneficial impact these kinds of developments will actually have on the environment)

 

[blanky]

I'm not a Motorcycle owner, but I am very curious. Lately there's been this Honda cafe racer sitting in the garage of my complex and I hear it going out for a ride now and then. It has a distinct low noise kinda drum ruffle thing going on. I saw 2 tubes running from the engine to the exhaust, so it's probably a 2 in line cyl? Could that be it or am I making stuff up?

 

[Fallout-NL]

That could be correct. This is a Honda CB350 cafe-racer and it's a parallel twin:

Also featured in Girl With the Dragon Tattoo remake: http://www.autoblog.com/2011/12/11/building-the-bikes-of-the-girl-with-the-dragon-tattoo-w/

And here's how it sounded in the movie (I suspect they didn't fuck with the exhaust note too much in post-production): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l23hFSfp0b4

 

[blanky]

Parallel Twin is the term then? I love the look and sound of those bikes, definitely going to check that out. Video does sounds somewhat like the bike here, though it's a fair bit louder and gruntier. Thanks though

 

[Fallout-NL]

Yup, there's also 'V-twins' (Harley Davidson) and 'L-twins' (Ducati) depending on their layouts. Same goes for 4 cylinders, there's inline 4s (like the Yamaha R1 or the Honda CBR600RR) - that produce the higher pitched, screaming noise - and V4s (like Aprillia's RSV4 or the Honda VFRs), which combine some of the characteristics of twins and 4 cilinders by virtue of their more exotic and irregular firing orders.

It's great stuff, there's something for everyone and the incredibly large variety is part of why it's so much fun to ride different bikes (the difference in engine characters alone is huge).

(and you're welcome of course)

 

[Dougald]

Don't forget the good old BMW Boxer twin!

 

[maxheadwound]

Saw a boxer that was converted to cafe racer today on my way to Bristol. Look cool. The guy had a old school helmet on too to fit the part.

 

[LeroyPantwether]

Is the idle speed right? Might need adjusting, but no idea how you'd do that on an efi bike. I had an issue on the pan european where it would die and I just upped the idle as it was set too low

derp, there's an idle adjusting screw on the clutch hand side of the frame, just under the gas tank. I am going to mess with that. I checked the bike again and it is idling at 900ish. The manual calls for 1200-1300 rpm, so I am going to give the screw a couple turns. Is there any good way to do this? Do I just let the bike get to temp, then adjust the idle while it is running? I also bought some techron so my bike should be running like a champ in no time.

 

[Fallout-NL]

Don't forget the good old BMW Boxer twin!

Ah yes, the 'flat' twin.

 

[Dougald]

derp, there's an idle adjusting screw on the clutch hand side of the frame, just under the gas tank. I am going to mess with that. I checked the bike again and it is idling at 900ish. The manual calls for 1200-1300 rpm, so I am going to give the screw a couple turns. Is there any good way to do this? Do I just let the bike get to temp, then adjust the idle while it is running? I also bought some techron so my bike should be running like a champ in no time.

Yep not rocket science just turn the screw while it's running and watch the rev counter! I'd just start the bike, turn the screw and adjust it down as it warms up until stable, at least that's what I did with my ST