Well..wouldn't that number be 300k for a family of four then? Unless the people being counted are only those that generate income.
200k a year families claim they are "not rich"
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Well..wouldn't that number be 300k for a family of four then? Unless the people being counted are only those that generate income.
Hell, I make 70k a year and consider myself well-the-fuck-off because of how I grew up and how I budget money. I don't think bill is rich, his expenses; while they are not what I would call a tight budget, don't seem to be to extravagant. The headline grabber here is 800 a month for wine. Stupid people do that. There are stupid people in all income brackets.
gutter_trash
Banned
lots of people in thread are forgetting about that housing cost vary greatly depending in what Urban local you live in
Toronto is grossly over-expensive for a Canadian city and that is why wages are higher in TO than anywhere East in Canada. It's that damn expensive to live in
Toronto is grossly over-expensive for a Canadian city and that is why wages are higher in TO than anywhere East in Canada. It's that damn expensive to live in
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Talking about an iPad, and actually buying one is pretty big difference. And if you really must know, I was thinking about selling my laptop to buy it.. because I actually need some sort of device to comunicate with, read files, etc... you know, so that I could eventually afford all the things Bill posted about. Even then, at a fraction of his income, I feel like I live comfortably. Should I not be allowed to buy something nice for myself every once in a while? But it's cool that you are bringing up unrelated posts, and it still doesn't negate the point I was making with that post.
Marty Chinn
Member
In this thread it seems like you're either poor or you're rich. There is no middle ground. Since when did wealth become black and white?
That guy is, as I've said multiple times, single. A guy making 200k isn't the same as a family living on 200k.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
Only generating income. Basically it was claiming that 75k was the number to shoot for in a career before you hit MASSIVE diminishing returns in terms of more pay/more happiness.
ThLunarian
Member
I make $23,000 per year.
I'm able to live a modest life. I own a house with my brother (who makes about as much as me), and we enjoy luxuries like cable television, high speed internet, and I'm able to eat out relatively frequently. I have a fully paid-off car (although it's kind of a clunker, it still runs decently), and every few months I can take a weekend off to go out of town. This is all while I attempt to pay off miscellaneous debts that total about $25,000.
I'm sorry, but anyone who makes over EIGHT TIMES MORE than I do, when I'm living fairly well on my income, is rich, regardless of where they live.
I'm able to live a modest life. I own a house with my brother (who makes about as much as me), and we enjoy luxuries like cable television, high speed internet, and I'm able to eat out relatively frequently. I have a fully paid-off car (although it's kind of a clunker, it still runs decently), and every few months I can take a weekend off to go out of town. This is all while I attempt to pay off miscellaneous debts that total about $25,000.
I'm sorry, but anyone who makes over EIGHT TIMES MORE than I do, when I'm living fairly well on my income, is rich, regardless of where they live.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
Eight times more to support four times as many people in a likely much more expensive market... Yeah...
Edit: So 4x1.5(living costs)= 6 times as much... then factor in another 10% let's say for the percentage going to taxes. 6.5ish. Also, kids have added costs... so yea...
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
Perhaps this is a sign of the growing disparity between rich and poor ... or between the middle class and the poor.
People born in middle class families are increasingly becoming lower middle class or poor. Wages aren't increasing at the rate they used to. I know opportunities are vastly different now - my dad got an excellent job out of high school and stuck with it throughout his working career, securing an excellent pension. My mom went to a trade school and earned her CMA. These sorts of opportunities require a lot more education, networking, and luck nowadays.
Single or not, dude lives a lifestyle that many people consider 'rich'. He isn't representative of normal upper-middle-class. The problem is budgeting, at 70k a year my family could afford a cleaning lady if we wanted one, but only because our budget allows for it. Looking at simply income does not give a clear picture of 'rich'.
That's now how it works.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
That is making a good living but no way that is rich especially if you live in a big city. In NYC a one bedroom apartment will cost you close to two grand in a decent neighborhood. Of course you could live in the Bronx but you wouldn't be rich if you had to do that. 
the point is you have to be smart with your money at 200k therefore that is not rich. Especially with a family.
the point is you have to be smart with your money at 200k therefore that is not rich. Especially with a family.
Marty Chinn
Member
Is that 23000 before or after taxes? Because in CA, 23k would mostly be eaten up in rent and in way be able to afford a house.
In 15 years, you're likely to be that guy.
Your brother's income would be included in this figure. So call it 46k. Do you have any children?
Don't ever underestimate the cost of a large family in an expensive area in this day and age, with tuition and healthcare costs skyrocketing.
AppleSmack
Banned
A family income of 200k is not "rich". That is upper middle class. My parents make about that combined together and I don't live an extravagant life style at all.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Where do you live? I couldn't afford a shoebox making 23,000 a year in orange county or NYC.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
That is making a good living but no way that is rich especially if you live in a big city. In NYC a one bedroom apartment will cost you close to two grand in a decent neighborhood. Of course you could live in the Bronx but you wouldn't be rich if you had to do that.
the point is you have to be smart with your money at 200k therefore that is not rich. Especially with a family.
What neighborhoods do you consider a decent in NY? I thought all the cool kids were moving to Brooklyn anyways.
Rich? Well that's an opinion.
They are very well off at the least, even for living in a place with higher costs of living. The median household income in Canada is ~70,000 Canadian Dollars. They make 200,000 Canadian Dollars. Cost of living in Toronto isn't that much more (just about no country in the world is).
They can become what I would consider rich if they save/invest their money instead of blowing it on booze and clothes. What irks me about this article is their 'keeping up with the Joneses' attitude...As someone who has lived through poverty, I dream to make $100,000 a year as a single earner, and would care less what shit my neighbor spends his or her money on.
They are very well off at the least, even for living in a place with higher costs of living. The median household income in Canada is ~70,000 Canadian Dollars. They make 200,000 Canadian Dollars. Cost of living in Toronto isn't that much more (just about no country in the world is).
They can become what I would consider rich if they save/invest their money instead of blowing it on booze and clothes. What irks me about this article is their 'keeping up with the Joneses' attitude...As someone who has lived through poverty, I dream to make $100,000 a year as a single earner, and would care less what shit my neighbor spends his or her money on.
Jim E. Rossler
Banned
So I guess 400 years from now people living in space won't be rich?
"Oh we make 3 Million(adjusted for inflation) a year, but once you factor in the costs of living in space we only really have around 9 thousand a month to spend.
I like to open up a bottle of imported low gravity distilled Martian wine every night, and escape down to earth every weekend, but the shipping for the wine eats into our budget, and re-entry is cheap while getting back to space is 95% of the travel cost"
There are people who own colonies on the moon, THOSE guys are the REAL rich people. Duh.
"Oh we make 3 Million(adjusted for inflation) a year, but once you factor in the costs of living in space we only really have around 9 thousand a month to spend.
I like to open up a bottle of imported low gravity distilled Martian wine every night, and escape down to earth every weekend, but the shipping for the wine eats into our budget, and re-entry is cheap while getting back to space is 95% of the travel cost"
There are people who own colonies on the moon, THOSE guys are the REAL rich people. Duh.
sixteen-bit
Member
wealth is subjective
What?
DownLikeBCPowder
Member
200k is not rich, not by my opinion.
They are well off, can afford excess luxury. Living costs in an area also mean everything 200k here WOULD be living REALLY well, but in urban areas the viability declines some. Especially with four (?) kids.
They are well off, can afford excess luxury. Living costs in an area also mean everything 200k here WOULD be living REALLY well, but in urban areas the viability declines some. Especially with four (?) kids.
Do you really not understand how cost of living affects how far someone's income can take them?
MrGame&Watch
Member
I think this is also skewed because I imagine the average GAFer is more well off than the average American. People who have a hobby as expensive as ours tend to have disposable income to throw around a bit. The average income in the United States is like 5 times less than that.
AppleSmack
Banned
You don't need that much money to support only yourself. When I graduate university I'll try to land like a 55k starting salary job and that will easily allow me to have more than what I have now.
Jim E. Rossler
Banned
No. I dont. At all.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
I'm Dominican so I consider the heights decent. Uws, ues, a bunch of neighborhoods in Brooklyn and queens. I grew up in the Bronx so Fuck moving back there lol.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
My household income is $110k per year and I feel filthy fucking rich compared to everyone I know. And I live in Philadelphia, which is a pretty expensive place to live. Any money I would make after this would basically completely be a luxury. My yearly bills come out to less than $60k per year, unless I would include retirement savings. These people make almost double what I do, and they're not rich? They live a life of extreme luxury. I don't even know how half of the people in this thread can even begin to claim that it's not rich.
How don't you understand that living in an area with expensive houses/apartments and being in a higher tax bracket mean you have less money?
Living beyond your means does not change the fact that you're well within what most economists consider to be the upper class of society. Millionaires can live beyond their means but that doesn't change the fact that they're upper class.
You're talking about an amount that is 3x the pre-tax average family income.
There are very few places in the United States where the cost of living is so high as to exclude >200K earners from a great deal of comfort.
aorange999
Member
A one bedroom in a 'nice' Brooklyn neighborhood will be $1500.
It's amazing how much money I save by not having any vices. Just by taking drinking, smoking and gambling I'm up like $200/week on people I know who do this stuff. Obviously they don't view it as a waste of money, so I'm not saying that.
Basically what I'm saying is that being a boring loner means you get to save a lot of money, haha.
Basically what I'm saying is that being a boring loner means you get to save a lot of money, haha.
Eh, depends on what you're looking at. Rent is a big one, as Toronto is 26% more expensive than Calgary in terms of rent. It is also more expensive in other metrics, but generally not significantly above other major cities.
It is interesting to note that Toronto's cost of living index is actually slightly higher than New York's.
Jim E. Rossler
Banned
Because I do understand. It's why I made that post.
italianfreak240
Member
I wouldn't consider them rich at all. Besides everyone's opinion is different on what "rich" actually means.
staticneuron
Member
This is exactly it. The breakdown is that they spend $800 on wine, $200 on live concerts, $1,000 on clothes a month and an astounding $10,000 a year for travel and this is not rich? Argue cost of living all you want but COL is based off a standard you set up for yourself. It is nothing short of obnoxious, if you have a maid, can spend over $30,000+ a year on niceties and on top of that pay near $3,000 a month because you deal with TWO properties, then you are rich.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Granted, I haven't lived there in a while, but I remember being able to find apartments at cheaper rents than that. Roommates make things easier as well. Are the rents really that high now? Pretty shitty.
Setting aside the discussion of rich or not rich for a moment...
I don't think that these sorts of discussions should cause us hesitation in our continued goal to provide the highest quality sustainable lifestyle for as great a proportion of the human race as possible.
Nor should we use downward comparisons to limit us as to what is necessary and what is luxury.
To us, living the modern life, a flushing toilet is such an absurdly necessary thing, that we wouldn't be able to function without it. This is true; we've removed the manual infrastructure of waste removal in favour of the automatic water/energy driven infrastructure.
But at the time of its invention, a flushing toilet seemed like an absurdly luxurious thing. You mean you shit in a pot, and no one else is forced to deal with the smells and the waste? I'll pay a million pounds!
That said... the problems arise when your ability to enjoy the utilities of modern living impact upon the ability of others to experience the same such thing.
Maybe someday, we'll wise up enough to realise just exactly what it is we're trying to do with this thing we call a society, and devise a method of optimizing for our goals. No mean feat, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered at all as a result.
I don't think that these sorts of discussions should cause us hesitation in our continued goal to provide the highest quality sustainable lifestyle for as great a proportion of the human race as possible.
Nor should we use downward comparisons to limit us as to what is necessary and what is luxury.
To us, living the modern life, a flushing toilet is such an absurdly necessary thing, that we wouldn't be able to function without it. This is true; we've removed the manual infrastructure of waste removal in favour of the automatic water/energy driven infrastructure.
But at the time of its invention, a flushing toilet seemed like an absurdly luxurious thing. You mean you shit in a pot, and no one else is forced to deal with the smells and the waste? I'll pay a million pounds!
That said... the problems arise when your ability to enjoy the utilities of modern living impact upon the ability of others to experience the same such thing.
Maybe someday, we'll wise up enough to realise just exactly what it is we're trying to do with this thing we call a society, and devise a method of optimizing for our goals. No mean feat, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered at all as a result.
I consider us to be well-off, but certainly not rich.
If I didn't have kids, then I might feel rich, and my kids are all pretty young and they just get more expensive as they get older.
I certainly can't afford to make it rain down at the local titty bar, or drive $50,000 vehicles, or hop on a plane and go anywhere in the world we feel like going. We take a family vacation every couple of years and its somewhere usually within a day's driving distance because air fare and vehicle rental are so expensive when you take an entire family. Lets say you budget $5,000 for your entire family vacation, but if you fly and then have to rent a family vehicle when you get there - half that budget is gone just for those 2 things.
why are people being so willfully ignorant in this thread? If the people interviewed had only mentioned their 200k income, where they live, and the number of people in their family, then sure, you guys could openly speculate about their comfort levels, and wonder whether they should be considered wealthy or not.
BUT they told you they spend 800 bucks a month on WINE. That they spend 10,000 bucks a year on TRAVEL, that they spend 1000 bucks a month on CLOTHING. That they go to Vegas 4 times a year.
They are blowing tens of thousands of dollars a year on LUXURIES. Therefore, they are rich. That's it.
Are they super rich? No. But the amount of money they spend every year on bullshit can be put away for a few years and pay off college tuition to expensive universities or cover the cost of healthcare (oh wait, they live in CANADA!). Fuck, I know there are a few people here trying to rationalize that 200k is not rich because perhaps they lived under a similar income situation, but the facts are abundantly clear. $9,600 a year on wine cements it.
These people don't consider themselves rich because they're irresponsible idiots who blow through their incomes without considering the future.
BUT they told you they spend 800 bucks a month on WINE. That they spend 10,000 bucks a year on TRAVEL, that they spend 1000 bucks a month on CLOTHING. That they go to Vegas 4 times a year.
They are blowing tens of thousands of dollars a year on LUXURIES. Therefore, they are rich. That's it.
Are they super rich? No. But the amount of money they spend every year on bullshit can be put away for a few years and pay off college tuition to expensive universities or cover the cost of healthcare (oh wait, they live in CANADA!). Fuck, I know there are a few people here trying to rationalize that 200k is not rich because perhaps they lived under a similar income situation, but the facts are abundantly clear. $9,600 a year on wine cements it.
These people don't consider themselves rich because they're irresponsible idiots who blow through their incomes without considering the future.
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