2010/11 NBA Dec |OT| of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7lMXXaUaIo PEACE
- Thread starter reilo
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TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Srsly said:
Somebody has never hit a clutch shot when it mattered:lol
Adam Blade
WWKC
Srsly said:
Srsly said:
Srsly said:
Srsly said:
Srsly said:
Srsly said:
Derp.
What do you want us to argue? The fact that Magic had more assists, more rebounds, higher field-goal percentage, higher TS%, higher eFG%, better rebound percentage, same WS/48 and much lower USG%? But what's the point when you are ignorant of the overall game of basketball?Srsly said:
I mean, fuck, if you want to argue stats, we can get into this all day long, but fact of the matter is, there are some quantitative statistical analysis that even the best of NBA statisticians cannot account for because of the game of basketball is far too complex to measure in such nuance -- unlike baseball or football.
What really matters as the end of the day is that Magic has 5 rings, three Finals MVPs, three regular season MVPs, and a lot more hos. Check those $tat$.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Doomsayer said:
He might be the best sixth man of all time.
ryutaro's mama
Member
DY_nasty said:
:lol :lol :lol
You seem to have forgotten that:ryutaro's mama said:
A) basketball is a team game.
B) LeBron never played with a bonafide All-Star before this year
C) LeBron played against one of the best team defenses of all-time when he made it to the finals, and the 2nd best player on LeBron's team was mediocre by any reasonable standards.
And Hakeem had much better teammates that LeBron ever had (before this year) in the years that he won the 2 championships. Otis Thorpe would have been a massive upgrade to any of LeBron's Cleveland teams. Maxwell was the 2nd creator that LeBron lacked against the Spurs. The Rockets had a roster of guys that could drain threes out of the double-teams that Hakeem drew.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Srsly said:
LeBron sure forgot that.
I can't sit here and agree with you Srsly, but I will say that your argument is not as crazy as everyone is making it seem. It is a little crazy though.
The issue is twofold, namely that people look back at past players with rose tinted glasses, and that Lebron hasn't won yet. Furthermore, Lebron and Magic excel(led) at slightly different things- Lebron is a pure scorer, while Magic was a beast at orchestrating an offense. Despite that, I hate the playoffs argument, because Lebron is still in his prime and has plenty of time to win. People said the same shit about Peyton... and look what happened.
The issue is twofold, namely that people look back at past players with rose tinted glasses, and that Lebron hasn't won yet. Furthermore, Lebron and Magic excel(led) at slightly different things- Lebron is a pure scorer, while Magic was a beast at orchestrating an offense. Despite that, I hate the playoffs argument, because Lebron is still in his prime and has plenty of time to win. People said the same shit about Peyton... and look what happened.
Rodeo Clown
All aboard! The Love train!
I'm excited. Slow, busted shameball is old hat. Exciting, fast paced shameball is what's hot. Paul Silas, coach of the forever.DY_nasty said:
Why is Lebron better than Dr J, Larry Bird, Rick Barry and Baylor? I would like to hear your reasons why. IMO all of these guys were more complete players than Lebron.Srsly said:
Lebron doesn't have a post game and half of the times that he freezes a defender is because he is traveling. Never seen a player get away with the things he gets away with. And the rules allow him to go ape shit. The foul circle inflates his stats. Lebron looks great because no one can punch him in the mouth on a drive like they used to be able to do and only get a foul called. Lebron has the league backing him and rules that promote his style of play. His effectiveness would go down if you could funnel him with your hands and didn't have to worry about automatic fouls in the circle.
No, its a crazy argument. Lebron is not better than Magic. Magic in his prime could play any position on the court. Lebron isn't the best sf ever. No way is he an all time great.peterb0y said:
ryutaro's mama
Member
Srsly said:
No I haven't.
Bonafide All-Star...ok...and then you say:
And he got swept. He wasn't good enough to gut one game out. Wade gutted out 1 game last spring against one of the hardest defenses in the league.
Next excuse.
Were any of those players around Hakeem "All-Star" caliber?
I mean, as you said earlier, "bonafide all-stars"?
captmcblack
Member
This thread so deserves someone actually arguing that some player in this era is better than Magic fucking Johnson.
That sort of thing is only possible in NBA-Age.
That sort of thing is only possible in NBA-Age.
Shameball is a thing of the past. An uptempo offense in Charlotte? Something that hot can only be called Sexball.Rodeo Clown said:
Prepare your body.
He settled into it the before he even signed the papers. Those hamburgers that he was eating with Wade during the off-season? Bosh paid and tipped.Blackace said:
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Srsly said:
Wait what? The Rockets were a good team, but LBJ had some great players in Cleve..
Mo Williams is a better player than Mad Max... And Thorpe wasn't much better than AV..
I think the Rocket teams were better on the whole, mostly because Mario was a beast but the Dream was a better gamer than LBJ is at this point.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
LeBron is a leader though whenever he has the ball.
Usually with his elbow and sometimes with his shoulder, he's that well rounded.
Usually with his elbow and sometimes with his shoulder, he's that well rounded.
peterb0y said:
I agree that people look at the "good old days" differently. My biggest beef with Lebron happened last year. That was the saddest performance I have ever seen. Lebron is supposed to be the best basketball player on the planet, but he quit on his team. In my mind it's no longer about wining one championship with Lebron. He now has to win multiple championships while being the best player on the floor. Until he can do that I will never consider him a top 10 player.
There is no way in hell Lebron is the best pure scorer in basketball. His game is one dimensional. Ask yourself this what is Lebron great at doing? He isn't a great shooter, he isn't a great passer, he has no post up game, etc... His game is all driving to the basket. Once in a while he gets hot shooting the ball. Also pure scorer is so damn vague anyways.
Jamesfrom818
Banned
Blackace said:
I'd take The Human Highlight Film over Lebron every day of the week.
Boombloxer
Member
Srsly said:
Wait, wait...I missed this:
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Justin Timberlake
Member
god damn Magic is an overrated piece of trash but an easy-bake oven could play basketball better than Lebron. At least Magic knows how to pass to players better than him. That puts him right up there with Chris Quinn, and I am not sure Lebron is quite at that level yet.
ryutaro's mama
Member
The Crimson Blur said:
This whole post was constructed just so you could name drop Chris Quinn.
Jamesfrom818
Banned
The Crimson Blur said:
Go sit on the other end of the bench. That trolling was garbage. Come on man. Just run the offense. Don't be trying to do your own thing out there.
Justin Timberlake
Member
ryutaro's mama said:
I actually started a post about Quinn, scrolled up and read the shit you guys have been talking about all day, and changed my post
:lol
Jamesfrom818 said:
Lebron-esque
no coach would bench Lebron, now would they? I'd give you a strong bump on my way to the bench if you did. And then you'd know I'm pissed.
Justin Timberlake
Member
dIEHARD said:
As I've said before, I love all my Spurs equally.
The Chosen One
Member
It's like we have a streaker running through NBA-GAF today.
Teams far worse than the Cavs have made the Finals and even won a couple of games. One of the major problems with the Cleveland teams the past couple of years is that they didn't really run a proper offense, especially in crunch time. It's basically just LeISOs, which reduce the teammates to spectators. And Lebron's offensive game doesn't have enough variety to consistently break down a good defensive team.
In just about every series Cleveland lost the 3-4 years, Lebron had at least 3 games where he shot under 40%. He consistently gets shutdown by good teams. Contrast this with Wade, he had a garbage supporting cast yet he played out of his mind against Boston last year. Even guys like T-Mac played great through almost the entire series when their team's lost.
Lebron does well in meaningless statement games in the regular season because usually teams don't have much time to prepare and they can't make adjustments. Whereas in the playoffs, good teams (with good coaches) have time to make adjustments and to limit Bron's game. And Lebron lacks the skillset to properly make his own adjustments. His solution is to just chuck contested 3 pointers and long twos, hoping to hit a hot streak.
Having said all of that, Lebron's offensive deficiencies might have been manageable if Cleveland learned to run meaningful plays for the other players. Yeah Mo Williams played like garbage in the playoffs but it was partly because he had to create a shot with just 5-6 seconds on the shot clock. The Cavs didn't run plays to hit him in his sweet spots. The role players were reduced to garbage collection off Lebron double teams. But when teams don't double team Lebron, the role players never got good looks.
That's another major difference between Magic and Lebron. Magic could hit his role-players in the flow of offense even with just single coverage. Whereas Lebron holds the ball for 10-15 seconds and passes it off once the double team is coming. It works against weaker teams, but not always against teams with quality defense.
IMO, the Heat are in trouble if the ball is in Lebron's hand 80% of the time in crunch time during the playoffs. Even during the recent streak, the Heat looked like ass in the few close games. You had Chris Bosh taking 3 pointers. :lol That's a sign of a directionless offense.
Blackace said:
Teams far worse than the Cavs have made the Finals and even won a couple of games. One of the major problems with the Cleveland teams the past couple of years is that they didn't really run a proper offense, especially in crunch time. It's basically just LeISOs, which reduce the teammates to spectators. And Lebron's offensive game doesn't have enough variety to consistently break down a good defensive team.
In just about every series Cleveland lost the 3-4 years, Lebron had at least 3 games where he shot under 40%. He consistently gets shutdown by good teams. Contrast this with Wade, he had a garbage supporting cast yet he played out of his mind against Boston last year. Even guys like T-Mac played great through almost the entire series when their team's lost.
Lebron does well in meaningless statement games in the regular season because usually teams don't have much time to prepare and they can't make adjustments. Whereas in the playoffs, good teams (with good coaches) have time to make adjustments and to limit Bron's game. And Lebron lacks the skillset to properly make his own adjustments. His solution is to just chuck contested 3 pointers and long twos, hoping to hit a hot streak.
Having said all of that, Lebron's offensive deficiencies might have been manageable if Cleveland learned to run meaningful plays for the other players. Yeah Mo Williams played like garbage in the playoffs but it was partly because he had to create a shot with just 5-6 seconds on the shot clock. The Cavs didn't run plays to hit him in his sweet spots. The role players were reduced to garbage collection off Lebron double teams. But when teams don't double team Lebron, the role players never got good looks.
That's another major difference between Magic and Lebron. Magic could hit his role-players in the flow of offense even with just single coverage. Whereas Lebron holds the ball for 10-15 seconds and passes it off once the double team is coming. It works against weaker teams, but not always against teams with quality defense.
IMO, the Heat are in trouble if the ball is in Lebron's hand 80% of the time in crunch time during the playoffs. Even during the recent streak, the Heat looked like ass in the few close games. You had Chris Bosh taking 3 pointers. :lol That's a sign of a directionless offense.
Rodeo Clown
All aboard! The Love train!
I don't mean to alarm anyone, but the Bobcats have 8 points in less than 3 minutes.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Fuck Dominique, bigger bitch than LeBron.
The Chosen One
Member
DY_nasty said:
I'm liking how the Pistons have been playing lately. You're in trouble.
Rodeo Clown
All aboard! The Love train!
Detroit/Charlotte is shockingly fun to watch. Paul Silas, coach of the forever.
reilo said:
Wait... what? Football statistics are even more pointless than basketball stats, and that's saying something. If you're using numbers to evaluate players in either league, you're doing it wrong. A players' impact on the game goes far beyond mere numbers in both sports.
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