Great article. Both exaggerated it seems, But Romney apparently took it to a whole new level of bullshittery.
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2012 First U.S. Presidential Debate |OT| OK Libya... We need a leader, not a reader.
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Great article. Both exaggerated it seems, But Romney apparently took it to a whole new level of bullshittery.
You're not supposed to bring any prepared materials. Might just be a tissue or hankie though.
The Mana Legend
Banned
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that Obama held back a bit. I'm an independent, so I'm not biased to one or the other, but it felt as though Obama is saving a lot for the final debates. He had so many opportunities to attack back or defend himself, but he didn't.
He was way too conservative in the debate, but I think he did it for a reason. But still, he held back WAY too much, even if the above was his plan.
He was way too conservative in the debate, but I think he did it for a reason. But still, he held back WAY too much, even if the above was his plan.
JetBlackPanda
Member
three people have already approached me today and asked me how I liked the "mitt" slapping last night.
/sigh
/sigh
ErasureAcer
Banned
I swear it was Romney's first question asked that he was reading off of something. Guess I'll have to go back and look but I didn't see him write anything down that quick. The video is obvious he put something on his podium. I never saw him blow his nose and it didn't look like he had a cold.
MidnightRider
Banned
yes. we deserve all of the things Romney will do. It will be glorious.
I loved when Romney called Obama out on causing more public debt than all other presidents combined Obama could only get out a pathetic Uhhhhhhhhh Uhhhhhhhhhh Uhhhhhhhhhhh Uhhhhhhhhhh
I'm swamped at work today. Wish I could hang around longer and read the thread.
HamPster PamPster
Member
Wasn't yesterday the four year anniversary of TARP and the other big bailouts being signed into law?
Jim should have brought it up during the debate. For all the talk about if you are better off then 4 years ago, 4 years ago we were pumping money into the economy because people were scared it would collapse
Listening to the discussion this morning, the media isn't going after the poor moderation at all. I guess they want to protect one of their own
Jim should have brought it up during the debate. For all the talk about if you are better off then 4 years ago, 4 years ago we were pumping money into the economy because people were scared it would collapse
Listening to the discussion this morning, the media isn't going after the poor moderation at all. I guess they want to protect one of their own
Link to exact moment in better quality:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYKKsRxhcro&feature=player_detailpage#t=127s
Red Blaster
Member
Of course, I and every other fellow smart person wanted to see Romney get his snakeoil ass stomped into the ground.
But it ultimately doesn't matter despite what FUD peddlers like PhoenixDark say, Kerry ran circles around Bush in the debates and they didn't do shit.
California? Sorry, no. Go to any mining/ timber community and you will find it's destitute or dying. Unless your suggesting the model is to depopulate these areas, then sure it's working.
Sometimes, you have to recognize that it's time for soceity to move on. There are much, much better ways to handle our energy situation than continuing to hunt for buried coal. More long-term solutions that are safer for workers, more sustainable, where costs should decrease rather than increase over time, more diversified. Does that mean that coal miners will be hit hard? Yes. But that is why it is also important for society to be there to pick up the slack, support these communities, and help retrain them to contribute to society's changing needs.
I don't mean to come off as cruel, but, look, if there are 1000 engineers working on a fighter jet that the military doesn't want or need, wouldn't it be better to harness those engineers' skills towards something like improving the designs of commercial aircraft and spacecraft? Wouldn't it be better to maybe provide some mechanical engineering training programs to some of those engineers and direct them towards developing wind energy solutions?
We shouldn't just have jobs for the sake of having jobs. We should help people get careers, and help them in the transition between jobs as society changes.
Dreamcaster
Banned
Same thing Kerry did in 2004. Must be something about that side of the stage.
Kerry vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG2GSWyPudE#t=4m25s
http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpoli...NPR&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=20121004
Obama is a damn liar
From the debate:
Obama: "20 years ago I became the luckiest man on Earth because Michelle Obama agreed to marry me."
Her name was Michelle Robinson, you deceiver!
Obama is a damn liar
From the debate:
Obama: "20 years ago I became the luckiest man on Earth because Michelle Obama agreed to marry me."
Her name was Michelle Robinson, you deceiver!
The great recession led to all of that debt, to say it was anything else is to be deliberately ignorant of the facts.
ErasureAcer
Banned
Cheaters never win.
Sirpopopop
Member
Has that guy been sitting there for 8 years like a piece of furniture? It looks like exactly the same. Spooky.
I'm surprised that it's the same set too. PBS's limited budget on full display.
Work has been a pain today. Gloating all around me. No matter how many facts I point out to counter Romney's BS storm no one seems to care. "Trickle down government!"
Obama really disappointed me last night. He got pushed around almost as badly as Jim Lehrer. But it's not like he was ever going to win over my state anyway.
Obama really disappointed me last night. He got pushed around almost as badly as Jim Lehrer. But it's not like he was ever going to win over my state anyway.
He used a handkerchief near the end of the debate, and the area under his nose was red as though he had been blowing it. I vote hankie.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
But see, I disagree with your basic premise that it's time for society to move on. I don't think that's the case at all, and it's further evidenced by the fact that in 2011 energy produced by renewable resources only made up 9% of the total energy consumed in the US. There are no currently available long-term solutions that are better, safer, and more sustainable for workers in this area. Shouldn't we focus on that issue before removing what we have?
My philosophy when it comes to coal is to do the best we can with what we've got until we have something better. Coal mining as it stands today is safer than it has ever been before (surprising given the media's morbid obsession with any injuries or fatalities that occur in the industry, I'm sure), and it can be mined relatively cheaply and at a profit if the regulations are reasonable.
I understand the desire to take care of our planet and to do what we can to prevent ruining it. Part of my job is to go to specific sites and audit them based on a list of environmental criteria and make sure that we are doing our part to do our job in an environmentally conscious fashion. The problem is, the regulations have reached a point where they simply don't make sense given the current state of our country and our economy.
At some point this gets into a much longer and deeper discussion about the deservedly terrible reputation of the coal industry in the US. Coal mining used to be done with little to no thought given to environmental or safety impacts and as a result a lot of terrible things happened. The way I see it is that my job is to prevent that type of thing from happening in the future, until we have a replacement solution that makes sense not only for the environment but for the people who live and work in this area. As of right now it simply doesn't exist.
PS3GamerKyle
Member
to his defense, it could certainly have been the handkerchief that he used later on in the debate.
Ken Masters
Banned
Liberal meltdown has been fascinating to watch
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
Yes it has. It's even gone as far as Al Gore going on shows to blame the high altitude for Obama's performance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm9BoM2Q81c&feature=player_embedded
teruterubozu
Member
eh, we deserve it. The "Wednesday is going to be gloooooorious" posts were getting silly.
OriginofHysteria
Banned
You mean manbearpig didn't have anything to do with it?
Punkster_NY
Member
Ken Masters
Banned
But if renewables do only make up 9%, there is no imminent threat to your community unless that number skyrockets to 30% overnight.
I'm not saying you just switch everything just like that, I'm saying that you need to recognize the medium to long term outlook and sustainability of coaling.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
Trust me, the threat is not only imminent, it is here. And it's not because of renewable resources, it's because of cheap natural gas and over-regulation. If you look up recent news for any major coal company you can get an idea of just how rough things have been lately for the industry. That is why just about every person you meet who is involved with coal in any way despises Obama, because he simply doesn't see it as part of our energy plan for the future (both long and short term). Now, combine that with the fact that there are no other major industries in this part of the country besides coal and you can see why there is a real recipe for disaster and poverty looming.
I agree with what you're saying about the long term outlook, I just believe that the industry is being prematurely throttled and cut-off based primarily on political motives.
Red Blaster
Member
No but I don't think the situations are necessarily comparable either.
This has probably been gone over. But one thing I love about the Republican platform is that somehow raising taxes on businesses, in and of itself, leads to less people being hired?
Last I checked, people have to fucking buy your product (aka generate demand), and more demand would lead to needing to increase workers (supply) to meet the increased demand. This to me seems like a much more effective way in reality of creating jobs.
Now, the Republicans seem to think by increasing a companies bottom line, through taxation, not sales, somehow would lead businesses to increase hiring.
Unless the demand is there to drive it, how the fuck does this work?
Last I checked, people have to fucking buy your product (aka generate demand), and more demand would lead to needing to increase workers (supply) to meet the increased demand. This to me seems like a much more effective way in reality of creating jobs.
Now, the Republicans seem to think by increasing a companies bottom line, through taxation, not sales, somehow would lead businesses to increase hiring.
Unless the demand is there to drive it, how the fuck does this work?
Pollux
Member
Agree with this 100%, well said.
Sirpopopop
Member
How so?
Ken Masters
Banned
Trickle down economics
PS3GamerKyle
Member
TheContact
Member
saw this posted on some image site, sorry if it was posted already but it's pretty funny
Magic?
Hari Seldon
Member
I know in my area the fracking has gotten out of control. And if the land is reasonably priced, it is because the owners signed a horrible deal and are then trying to sell the land without the gas rights so the next owners get screwed when the frackers show up and ruin the well water and put up a tower 50 feet from the house and work day and night. It is fucking ridiculous. Coal is much better than this shit.
Red Blaster
Member
If I remember correctly that was during the town hall debate. Bush looking at his watch played into the already existing narrative that he was an out-of-touch old man which was in stark contrast to dat Clinton empathy.
Here we have a case of Obama looking off his game because he didn't call out Mittens for being the lying liar that he is. You could make the point that it's a debate and Obama didn't do what he had to do but it's still an overall indictment of how terrible Romney is.
Because the more money corporations have the more they're going to hire! Something basic things that aren't discussed in the media. People have been suckered into believing a company's goal is the hire more people. No, it's to make as many sales as possible using as few people as possible. I talk to the owner of my company from time to time, and fortunately he calls out Mitt Romney and the Republicans on that bullshit. His goal isn't to directly hire more people, only when you have to.
As a person who believes all these politicians are crooks and liars, this really resonated with me after hearing yesterdays debates. From a political blog online.
"But just as serious, this is all the more evidence that Mitt Romney simply believes in nothing. He will be whatever the highest bidder wants him to be. And that doesnt bode well for the rest of us not worth a quarter of a billion dollars."
"But just as serious, this is all the more evidence that Mitt Romney simply believes in nothing. He will be whatever the highest bidder wants him to be. And that doesnt bode well for the rest of us not worth a quarter of a billion dollars."
When do you think it WOULDN'T be premature?
To be fair, electric vehicles dominated the market in the early 20th century. Milburn Electric vehicles in the late 1910s and in the 1920s got about 70 miles a charge.
Electric trains were used to transport coal since they didn't require any oxygen for their fuel sources.
GM dismantled most of the tram infrastructure used throughout the nation back in the 1930s to create lots and bus routes for their internal combustion engine driven vehicles.
It's not that these energies are new, we've just stayed dependent on fossil fuels since before the industrial revolution and stonewalled the dissemination of other energy sources (or dismantled them in the case of EVs)
Eventually, it gets harder for you to find coal to use. It gets more costly, depletes faster, and more difficult to find over time. For hundreds of years we've decided to go with fossil fuels since that's what we've always done
Technosteve
Banned
i await the Biden gafs i fucking love that guy
Ken Masters
Banned
Step your income game up and stop complaining
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Pretty much. Neither candidate is "zomg the end is nigh" bad as the other side might believe, but hey, politics has become as bad as pro sports teams. Not many are open to the possibility of changing their mind anymore.
The model is to transition to an economy based on tech, services, and locally-specific goods -- that's what a post-industrial economy looks like. It's commercial. The result of this, yes, will be less mining and timber. That's why I wasn't talking about saving mining but about helping the people who work for the decaying mining industry. They're going to need different jobs, and the whole area is going to need a different financial center, and it's our responsibility to create an economy that provides those jobs and that center.
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