Support NeoGAF

[ryutaro's mama]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2010/06/the_captain_of_crunch.single.html

I knew someone would post that type of stuff.

Coffee Janitor wins the award.

The point is, regardless of all that, 74% OF NBA PLAYERS would want him with the ball to close a game in the final seconds.

His peers don't give 2 shits about Abbott numbers or PER or any of that shit.

They think he gives them the best chance to win in a landslide vote.

How do you even try to dispute that?

 

[DY_nasty]

I knew someone would post that type of stuff.

Coffee Janitor wins the award.

The point is, regardless of all that, 74% OF NBA PLAYERS would want him with the ball to close a game in the final seconds.

His peers don't give 2 shits about Abbott numbers or PER or any of that shit.

They think he gives them the best chance to win in a landslide vote.

How do you even try to dispute that?

Your mom

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Your mom

Hahahaha.

Perfect.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

I knew someone would post that type of stuff.

Coffee Janitor wins the award.

The point is, regardless of all that, 74% OF NBA PLAYERS would want him with the ball to close a game in the final seconds.

His peers don't give 2 shits about Abbott numbers or PER or any of that shit.

They think he gives them the best chance to win in a landslide vote.

How do you even try to dispute that?

Yes, because NBA players are known for their intelligence. Its called confirmation bias.

I think I'll go with the factual statistics rather than the distorted memories people have.

 

[Herpes Reasons]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2010/06/the_captain_of_crunch.single.html

Trailing by one or two points, or tied, in the final 24 seconds of regular-season and playoff games since 1996-97, with a minimum of 30 shots. From Alok Pattani of ESPN Stats & Information.

that's a very skewed criteria.
you should see who the #1 clutch player is in the final 30sec and without any stupid 30 attemps criteria.
i saw an espn stat line who the most clutch player is with under 30 seconds or lower.
hint:its kobe.

can't remember who the top 5 were outside of kobe though

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

No sane person would prefer Kobe have the ball at the end of the game instead of CP3 or Dirk at this point. People forget that most players are terrible judges of ability like how Dwight wanted Big Baby and now wants Jax.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

that's a very skewed criteria.
you should see who the #1 clutch player is in the final 30sec and without any stupid 30 attemps criteria.
i saw an espn stat line who the most clutch player is with under 30 seconds or lower.
hint:its kobe.

can't remember who the top 5 were outside of kobe though

Did you read through the second article?

 

[Herpes Reasons]

Did you read through the second article?

i aint reading that much paragraphs on my phone.
what's the gist?

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Yes, because NBA players are known for their intelligence. Its called confirmation bias.

I think I'll go with the factual statistics rather than the distorted memories people have.

And when the game's on the line, the professionals that do that shit for a living--the guys actually out there on the floor-- will defer to the cat they think will help them win.

By an overwhelming number.

"Hey Coach K, we got one shot to win the gold! Quick--someone pull up the PER averages!"

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

i aint reading that much paragraphs on my phone.
what's the gist?

For one, if you do expand "clutch" situations to being the last 5 minutes of the game, LeBron bests Kobe, and has for several years.

Also note...

Behavorial economist Daniel Ariely argues that a player's clutchness is a fiction based more on social agreement than on performance. In a study, Ariely asked a group of professional coaches who they thought were the NBA's best clutch players. Not surprisingly, the same set of stars kept coming up, including Bryant, James, Wade, and Duncan. Ariely then compared the performances of alleged clutch players with those were not explicitly identified as clutch. "As it turned out, the clutch players did not improve their skill; they just [shot the ball] many more times," Ariely wrote in a recent piece for the Huffington Post. "Their field goal percentage did not increase in the last five minutes. … [N]either was it the case that non-clutch players got worse."

And when the game's on the line, the professionals that do that shit for a living--the guys actually out there on the floor-- will defer to the cat they think will help them win.

By an overwhelming number.

"Hey Coach K, we got one shot to win the gold! Quick--someone pull up the PER averages!"

You ask me how I can dispute your no-evidence argument that is founded on confirmation bias, I ask you, how the hell do you argue against hard numbers? How do you argue against facts?

 

[h3ro]

no JJ?

Book a hawks win.

Not if we sit Amare first!

 

[Rodeo Clown]

I think I'd still give Kobe the ball for a last second shot. Somehow I'd live with it. Somehow.

 

[DY_nasty]

The ultimate Beta holding up the last true Alpha.

Preach.

 

[Duki]

of course nba players dont understand dem stats tho they dum

should be getting melo or cp3 to take final shots tbqh

 

[giga]

Following Monday's game between the teams at the Garden, New York Knicks point guard Jeremy Lin told New Jersey Nets power forward Kris Humphries that he doesn't understand why Knicks fans boo Humphries and said he wanted him to know that he respects his game.

"I saw him in the tunnel outside the locker room after the game," Humphries said during a Tuesday afternoon appearance on ESPN Radio's "The Scott Van Pelt Show."

"He's a really nice guy," said Humphries, who met Lin at an autograph signing in Los Angeles at the All-Star Game last year. "He just said, 'Hey, I don't know why they boo you, but I think it's crap, and you're playing really well.' That was nice of him to say. He's a really nice guy. ... It's nice to see great things happen for nice people."

Lin needs to get out of there. He's too good for ny fans.

 

[Herpes Reasons]

For one, if you do expand "clutch" situations to being the last 5 minutes of the game, LeBron bests Kobe, and has for several years.

Also note...

ah ok.
but.

situations are those with less than five minutes left in the fourth quarter or in overtime and neither team ahead by more than five points.

another stupid criteria.
wonder if he can find data with no cap on leads.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

You ask me how I can dispute your no-evidence argument that is founded on confirmation bias, I ask you, how the hell do you argue against hard numbers? How do you argue against facts?

sigh...

BECAUSE I'M NOT ARGUING FACTS!!!

I'm asking, how can you dispute WHAT HIS PEERS SAY, not some statistical data that not a single one of them crunched numbers on when polled. See the bolded:

I knew someone would post that type of stuff.

Coffee Janitor wins the award.

The point is, regardless of all that, 74% OF NBA PLAYERS would want him with the ball to close a game in the final seconds.

His peers don't give 2 shits about Abbott numbers or PER or any of that shit.

They think he gives them the best chance to win in a landslide vote.

How do you even try to dispute that?

How do you dispute that they all feel that way, regardless of +/-, PER, 2K sliders, the kind of moon out, tarot readings, etc.

You think guys out there are thinking about those numbers when the game is on the line?

 

[Gully State]

Plenty of time, Warriors have played the least games of anyone. 16 in 26 days in April, all but one against playoff contenders.

Warriors aren't going to tank. We're going to catch a bunch of unmotivated playoff teams at the right time and beat them to not only barely miss the playoffs and lose our 1st round pick but also give management some false optimism about the viability of the roster. The only roster move that will be made is the resigning of our "defensive anchor" Kwame Brown to a multiyear contract.

Same old shit every year.

 

[pilonv1]

Lin needs to get out of there. He's too good for ny fans.

Lin is pretty naive if he doesn't realise why the fans boo Hump.

 

[DY_nasty]

Lin needs to get out of there. He's too good for ny fans.

Its like Tiki Barber all over again.

 

[h3ro]

Advanced metrics in basketball?

Cut. It. Out.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Where the fuck do you get all these D'Antoni pics?

:O

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

sigh...

BECAUSE I'M NOT ARGUING FACTS!!!

I'm asking, how can you dispute WHAT HIS PEERS SAY, not some statistical data that not a single one of them crunched numbers on when polled. See the bolded:



How do you dispute that they all feel that way, regardless of +/-, PER, 2K sliders, the kind of moon out, tarot readings, etc.

You think guys out there are thinking about those numbers when the game is on the line?

Because NBA players and coaches succumb to confirmation bias, that's why.

Kobe misses 70% of his gamewinning attempts BTW

I mean how do you argue against makes and misses? That's all this is. I know it might shatter your belief that Kebo is the almighty clutch gawd but the numbers say no.

Maybe he would shoot a higher percentage and help his team more if he wasn't such a predictable ballhog in crunchtime.

 

[thekad]

I knew someone would post that type of stuff.

Coffee Janitor wins the award.

The point is, regardless of all that, 74% OF NBA PLAYERS would want him with the ball to close a game in the final seconds.

His peers don't give 2 shits about Abbott numbers or PER or any of that shit.

They think he gives them the best chance to win in a landslide vote.

How do you even try to dispute that?

What? That means absolutely nothing.

 

[Duki]

literally the george w bush of basketball

preachin ignorance and gut feelings over reality

 

[reilo]

Advanced metrics in basketball?

Cut. It. Out.

Alternative caption:

"Two in the stink, none in the pink."

 

[Emwitus]

What? That means absolutely nothing.

It means alot more than some random fan vote.

 

[Branduil]

31% of the time, Kobe hits clutch shots all of the time.

 

[pilonv1]

NBA players cant even handle their own finances without ending up destitute by 35, why would anyone listen to their opinions?

 

[Justin Timberlake]

To be fair to Kobe, his percentages are low cause hes usually at halfcourt with 5 or 6 hands in his face.

(with all his teammates wide open under the basket)

 

[thekad]

It means alot more than some random fan vote.

It means a lot less than what actually happens.

 

[Black Mamba]

the fact that teams run isos only and waste clock in crunch time is what is stupid. Someday there will be a coach who realizes the futility of it and runs his normal offense. Someday

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Because NBA players and coaches succumb to confirmation bias, that's why.

Kobe misses 70% of his gamewinning attempts BTW

Regardless of whether they "succumb to confirmation bias" or not, they feel like, he is the one they want taking the shot, regardless.

I'm sure Kobe's confidence (he is arrogant to believe that it's gonna fall) in taking the shot weights in heavily in their decision, but I'm only speculating.

Kobe welcomes moments like that--others would freeze up.

I mean how do you argue against makes and misses? That's all this is. I know it might shatter your belief that Kebo is the almighty clutch gawd but the numbers say no.

Maybe he would shoot a higher percentage and help his team more if he wasn't such a predictable ballhog in crunchtime

If you read this thread, you would know I'm one of the more critical members of Laker-Age on Kobe.

I know exactly who he is.

 

[Herpes Reasons]

To be fair to Kobe, his percentages are low cause hes usually at halfcourt with 5 or 6 hands in his face.

(with all his teammates wide open under the basket)

this is also true.
no sane defender will double team lebron at the end of the game.

 

[h3ro]

Where the fuck do you get all these D'Antoni pics?

:O

YOU'RE WELCOME.

/kobe


Also, cyber Bibby will haunt your dreams.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

the fact that teams run isos only and waste clock in crunch time is what is stupid. Someday there will be a coach who realizes the futility of it and runs his normal offense. Someday

I think it is fair to say that some role players choke in the clutch and running normal offense might involve those guys too much which is why coaches will call isos for the stars.

It is a pretty bad strategy though.

I also don't get why Melo doesn't get the crunch time criticism that Kobe gets when they do the same things at the end of games.

 

[DY_nasty]

this is also true.
no sane defender will double team lebron at the end of the game.

The ball is going to Bosh. Just wait.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

The ball is going to Bosh. Just wait.

For 3.

 

[thekad]

the fact that teams run isos only and waste clock in crunch time is what is stupid. Someday there will be a coach who realizes the futility of it and runs his normal offense. Someday

Adelman.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Regardless of whether they "succumb to confirmation bias" or not, they feel like, he is the one they want taking the shot, regardless.

I'm sure Kobe's confidence (he is arrogant to believe that it's gonna fall) in taking the shot weights in heavily in their decision, but I'm only speculating.

Kobe welcomes moments like that--others would freeze up.



If you read this thread, you would know I'm one of the more critical members of Laker-Age on Kobe.

I know exactly who he is.

Behavorial economist Daniel Ariely argues that a player's clutchness is a fiction based more on social agreement than on performance. In a study, Ariely asked a group of professional coaches who they thought were the NBA's best clutch players. Not surprisingly, the same set of stars kept coming up, including Bryant, James, Wade, and Duncan. Ariely then compared the performances of alleged clutch players with those were not explicitly identified as clutch. "As it turned out, the clutch players did not improve their skill; they just [shot the ball] many more times," Ariely wrote in a recent piece for the Huffington Post. "Their field goal percentage did not increase in the last five minutes. … [N]either was it the case that non-clutch players got worse."

Lemme just put this up here again

 

[The M.O.B]

Heat playing Kings tonight......Think I'll skip this game and just hit the gym.

Thursday can't come soon enough.

 

[exarkun]

I"m not sure great is the word i'd use.

I have no desire to watch another clusterfuck fest that is OKC denver.

spurs grizz wouldn't be the same if Z-bo isn't back and healthy.

no one in the NBA would watch mavs/rockets.

clippers / lakers would be hillarious for all the whiney bitching that goes on. but thats about it.

you bitch.

I don't see nash's old ass in those matchups. Talk when they are as good as the rox.

 

[Justin Timberlake]

Adelman.

Eh, I'd mention Pop too but he occassionally does isos as well. Tim or Manu iso is pretty common late in game for the Spurs (>6 secs=Tim, <6 secs=Manu).

He runs specialized sets that involve the entire team more often than not though.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Lemme just put this up here again

For what?

You're arguing data and I'm not.

I'm stating why I think players voted that way.

We're having two different conversations and you don't get it.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

For what?

You're arguing data and I'm not.

I'm stating why I think players voted that way.

We're having two different conversations and you don't get it.

Oh okay so you're not going to actually support your opinion at all. Cool.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Favors beat out Pek for the last spot in the Rising Stars game.

Sorry Wolves fans. Favors didn't deserve it, but these things are hyped-based anyway and hopefully this motivates Favors or something...

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

you bitch.

I don't see nash's old ass in those matchups. Talk when they are as good as the rox.

To be more accurate, no one outside of Texas would watch.

 

[Justin Timberlake]

Lemme just put this up here again

Look dude, now youre going off the deep end. Anyone who has watched basketball for any significant amount of time knows that late-game pressure exists, and it affects some players more than others. In fact, anyone who has played at the high-level at any sport or competitive game could tell you that.

To cite a "behavorial economist" to refute that is just silly.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Look dude, now youre going off the deep end. Anyone who has watched basketball for any significant amount of time knows that late-game pressure exists, and it affects some players more than others. In fact, anyone who has played at the high-level at any sport or competitive game could tell you that.

To cite a "behavorial economist" to refute that is just silly.

Obviously. I'm just saying that those guys' average did not go down at the end of the game, even though he thought people would blow up.

 

[Branduil]

the fact that teams run isos only and waste clock in crunch time is what is stupid. Someday there will be a coach who realizes the futility of it and runs his normal offense. Someday

But isos only is Mike Brown's normal offense.