I dunno about that. There's no way they keep Harden and Ibaka. Also I bet Westbrook gets tired of getting zero credit for saving this team's ass time and time again. I could easily see him going all Marbury on us soon
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2012 NBA Finals |OT| Good Job, Good Effort
- Thread starter reilo
- Start date
I dunno about that. There's no way they keep Harden and Ibaka. Also I bet Westbrook gets tired of getting zero credit for saving this team's ass time and time again. I could easily see him going all Marbury on us soon
this thread came pretty close to being very tame tonight as far as complaining goes but puddles has taken his whining to another level
also chosen one I am not sure why you think people who don't think lebron is getting help are blind. if you took the name off wade's jersey tonight he sure as hell doesn't look like even a third option right now. don't call it heat culture when we are irritated at him....lbj gets all the shit in the world yet wade has said himself "naaaah imma let lebron shoulder more load cause it's better". lebron would get ripped so hard with that
i don't think wade is totally broken yet but he has done a really shitty job with his opportunities. he also needs to be more decisive. all the shot fakes and passes or passing while in the air was some rookie shit....also this team needs more deterrence at the rim, bosh was a free lane in the middle last game....he just isnt a rim stopper
and yes accountability is a huge problem. lebron needs to be ripping wade like kobe and gasol....but he will never say a singleword to him
also chosen one I am not sure why you think people who don't think lebron is getting help are blind. if you took the name off wade's jersey tonight he sure as hell doesn't look like even a third option right now. don't call it heat culture when we are irritated at him....lbj gets all the shit in the world yet wade has said himself "naaaah imma let lebron shoulder more load cause it's better". lebron would get ripped so hard with that
i don't think wade is totally broken yet but he has done a really shitty job with his opportunities. he also needs to be more decisive. all the shot fakes and passes or passing while in the air was some rookie shit....also this team needs more deterrence at the rim, bosh was a free lane in the middle last game....he just isnt a rim stopper
and yes accountability is a huge problem. lebron needs to be ripping wade like kobe and gasol....but he will never say a singleword to him
that is where Kobe's "fuck you I don't care" qualities help (calling out guys even if he was the reason)----not concerned about what others say, only cares about trying to push the right button
not that i am saying he needs to be a dick but clearly something is not getting across to wade
not that i am saying he needs to be a dick but clearly something is not getting across to wade
The Chosen One
Member
I guess whenever I hear, "Lebron needs help!!!111", I just assume people are acting like Lebron is playing with a bunch of scrubs because that's how it was intended in the past. Clearly Wade has to play better. Way better. But people are acting like Wade is a no-talent bum and Lebron is on a team with a bunch of Titos. I'm sorry, that's just not the case.
Maybe Wade has lost a step or two, or has a nagging injury, but he's still better than 95% of the players in the league. I just think your coach is total ass and they haven't found a way for Lebron and Wade to co-exist.
Remember in the Pacers series Wade was playing like ass and then in game 4 I believe in the second half, Lebron gave Wade a really nice bounce pass going to the rim and that got Wade going. From there Wade went into beast mode. Instead of making inane motivational speeches, Spo should spend all his time coming up with plays like that to get those two working together in tandem. At least have some goto plays that you can try when Wade desperately needs a few easy baskets. So many times Lebron commands a double team, you'd think it wouldn't be that hard to set some plays for Wade to play off them. Right now, it's just completely random.
80-90% of the Heat offense is Lebron or Wade free-styling. I realize that's the norm with superstars, but when you have two superstars on the same team who occupy similar areas of the floor, then you have to have a more structured offense. Wade is flailing right now partly because either he doesn't listen to Spo or Spo isn't developing any plays for Wade to get quality opportunities.
It just seems as if he's trying to draw a foul every time he gets his hands on the ball. Am I wrong in assuming that it has to throw his consistency off a bit? Instead of just flowing into his shooting motion, he's faking and then having to gather himself again. It also seems as if the Refs have caught wind of it and aren't catering to it.
I agree with everything else you say, and mostly here, LeBron signed up to play with another superstar and another high level player---problem is, Wade HAS been playing like a no-talent bum, and when he has scored, it hasn't been impactful. That's what is baffling to everyone even though I don't know how much his injury is limiting him.
Yep, pretty much spot on
And he isn't making any adjustments himself
We simply cannot beat the Thunder playing their game, and taking a lot of jumpers. That's where we will get roasted with 100% certainty. can't trade jumper for jumper with them. I'm not worried about the offense that much, I'm more concerned about 2nd half defense when we look Boston-like
Again, correct me if I'm wrong (really just starting to pick up on the nuances of the game) but, it seemed as if the Thunder were attempting to be reserved in their aggression. Specifically when Lebron would barrel down the lane. I've watched the entire playoffs for the most part, and teams try to defend it, and it's pointless. He's gonna make it 8/10 because nobody can or is willing to foul him hard AND he's going to get the "And1".
What I saw last night were the Thunder letting him get his 2 points and basically daring anyone else to help him. And betting on Lebron getting tired. During the Heat/Celtics series, so many Boston players had to reign back in the 4th qtr because they were about to foul out. If memory serves me correctly, the Thunder didn't run into that situation. IMO, it's a smart tactic.
Ehhh I would say when the Thunder started seizing control it's when Wade began his flurry of bad shot selection, which led to our halfcourt defense being completely clusterfucked because he would then take 10 seconds to simply walk back past halfcourt
I love the guy but if you cannot play and go all out IN THE FUCKING FINALS then we are better off letting Terrel Harris have minutes, for real
LiveFromKyoto
Member
What's the deal with people (not so much on this page, but previously) acting like It's the media or unfair expectations people have? Lebron James is a guy who has consciously, publicly, openly built himself up as a "brand." Millions and millions of dollars have been spent on buying airtime and billboard space for this guy to brag that he's the king of basketball over and over. He publicly declared he was going to win more titles than anybody here. Nobody else did this to him.
The difference is that Kobe already had rings when he started doing that. Lebron hasn't earned that pass yet, he'll just look like he's trying to put it all on somebody else. "Dammit Wade, you're not living up to my finals standard." Gotta do it yourself first before you can call other people out for not doing it.
The difference is that Kobe already had rings when he started doing that. Lebron hasn't earned that pass yet, he'll just look like he's trying to put it all on somebody else. "Dammit Wade, you're not living up to my finals standard." Gotta do it yourself first before you can call other people out for not doing it.
Yeah I forgot to mention that
And he already admit he takes back what he said at that fan rally. He deserves criticism but some of the shit he gets is totally unreasonable, although I think that is mostly coming from fans now, which is expected
I'm gonna have to either avoid facebook or become immune to stupid. I get on this morning and it's all "hahaha lebron should play hockey" shit. drive by haters are as annoying as drive by fans
Lots of players build themselves up as brands. You don't think Kobe or Durant or Rose are a brand?
Secondly, the issue is not so much unfair expectations as it is people looking at a Miami Heat loss and blindly blaming LeBron.
Well, I think that's an entirely separate yet legitimate situation. I don't disagree with you.
But to my point, by not stupidly fouling James, the Thunder saved themselves AT LEAST 10+ points. That Lebron may or may not have made at the FT line.
In addition, their players were able to play with a clear mind because they didn't have to really worry about fouling out on a bad call from the refs because they wasted fouls on James driving the lane.
I believe that the Thunders level of aggression would have been different in the 4th qtr if Ibaka or Durant, or whomever had some fouls issues.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
That would be awesome though.
I'm much more sympathetic to LeBron than the average person, but he set himself up for this shit.
If you're the best player in the league and surrounded by such media intensity, you have to be smarter with what you say and have some perspective.
The smartest thing he could do is ditch all his high school buddies and mom and go to Tibet or some shit in the offseason.
Red Blaster
Member
And get banned from China for life? Terrible idea for his brand.
I think Lebron gets hated for the following reasons:
- People will always root for the underdog. Jordan/Kobe had their haters too but Lebron kinda kicked it up a level by going to Miami.
- The reason why going to Miami kicked his hatred up a knotch is because IMHO, people view star power on tiers. The same way Bosh isn't on Lebron and Wades level, Pippen isn't on Mikes level and Gasol isn't on Kobes level. (I know that Shaq is def comparable to Kobe and it's extrememly debateable). But people view Lebron and Wade on the same level, the top tier of player skill. And I believe that people view it as being unfair, or cheap. Regardless if they truly understand how it affects others of the team that sort of balance it out...
I see it the same as how people treated similiar teams in Elem school. Whenever the best players in school would get on the same team, the lesser atheletic kids would scream unfair... The game would be played regardless and 9/10 times, the lesser kids got their arses handed to them. LOL People tend to root against such allegiances. Miami has 2 top tier players and an all-star in Bosh.
- The clutch gene. LOL. It is what it is... What more can you say? I mean, the difference was very tangible in last nights game. Durant rose to the occasion, Lebron didn't. While someone who is truly interested in the game will tend to comprehend the contributing factors, a casual fans sees it in black & white.
- Lebron doesn't have that killer instinct, he just doesn't. It's not something U can learn or obtain, it's who you are and what your experiences make you. I know nothing about this man... But I'd be willing to bet that Lebron didn't play much "street ball". And by that, I mean ball where there's a chance that you're going to defend yourself physically. LOL. Ball where no matter how big/strong you are, someone is going to test you, there aren't any refs and you have to suck it up. That's where that burning desire to annihilate your opponent comes from. Lebron is such an amazing physical talent that he prolly was in organized b-ball from the get-go and didn't have those experiences.
- Miami/Lebron fans. LMAO, seriously. This goes for any big-name or hot team, the "fans" get absurd. People like to see those phony fans suffer.
All that being said, I feel for the guy at the end of the day. And in some instances, I don't.
- People will always root for the underdog. Jordan/Kobe had their haters too but Lebron kinda kicked it up a level by going to Miami.
- The reason why going to Miami kicked his hatred up a knotch is because IMHO, people view star power on tiers. The same way Bosh isn't on Lebron and Wades level, Pippen isn't on Mikes level and Gasol isn't on Kobes level. (I know that Shaq is def comparable to Kobe and it's extrememly debateable). But people view Lebron and Wade on the same level, the top tier of player skill. And I believe that people view it as being unfair, or cheap. Regardless if they truly understand how it affects others of the team that sort of balance it out...
I see it the same as how people treated similiar teams in Elem school. Whenever the best players in school would get on the same team, the lesser atheletic kids would scream unfair... The game would be played regardless and 9/10 times, the lesser kids got their arses handed to them. LOL People tend to root against such allegiances. Miami has 2 top tier players and an all-star in Bosh.
- The clutch gene. LOL. It is what it is... What more can you say? I mean, the difference was very tangible in last nights game. Durant rose to the occasion, Lebron didn't. While someone who is truly interested in the game will tend to comprehend the contributing factors, a casual fans sees it in black & white.
- Lebron doesn't have that killer instinct, he just doesn't. It's not something U can learn or obtain, it's who you are and what your experiences make you. I know nothing about this man... But I'd be willing to bet that Lebron didn't play much "street ball". And by that, I mean ball where there's a chance that you're going to defend yourself physically. LOL. Ball where no matter how big/strong you are, someone is going to test you, there aren't any refs and you have to suck it up. That's where that burning desire to annihilate your opponent comes from. Lebron is such an amazing physical talent that he prolly was in organized b-ball from the get-go and didn't have those experiences.
- Miami/Lebron fans. LMAO, seriously. This goes for any big-name or hot team, the "fans" get absurd. People like to see those phony fans suffer.
All that being said, I feel for the guy at the end of the day. And in some instances, I don't.
Diprosalic
Banned
wow, lebron and durant score both 30+ points in the finals for the first time in the same game.
Hardcore fans resent players that bring in a lot of casual fans.
I think it's more that he jilted a few fanbases in the process. Cleveland and the self-entitled New York fans.
The problem with this is that Lebron has never, ever been this player. He is Magic Johnson with Karl Malone's body not Micheal Jordan/Kobe Bryant.
The first chance Lebron ever had to decide a game in the playoffs, he passed. Then was widely criticised for it. He's not a stop and pop guy, he's a drive and dish guy.
So, no matter how much people want to hate on Lebron for falling short of that measure, he's just NOT that guy. It's not looking like he is ever going to be either. He wants to be a really good player on a really good team.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
I don't think so.. If you are a hardcore and not a fan of the Heat you have little reason to like LBJ....
If you are a hardcore fan, you would respect Lebron as one of the best all-around players in NBA history. A guy that can defend all 5 positions well, play all 5 positions well, passes as well as a point guard, almost never, ever gets hurt and dramatically makes every team he is on better. All while carrying the greatest burden of attention any player has ever had to endure.
If you really appreciated basketball logically and set aside your emotional investment into it, you would do this.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Yeah, it's like he is hurt or something!
cuevas. PhD.
Member
Miami is the underdog.
Yes, because his "injury" forces him to hang out at the 3 point line jacking up 3s.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Fan is short for fanatic.. Logically doesnt really enter the picture too often.
He really can't defend all positions.. And carrying the burden of attention is mostly brought by himself..
You can also locally knock the many weaknesses in his game and antics without being a hater, and while respecting his talents..
Yeah but what has he done THIS last year to warrant all the shit? Everybody keeps bringing up all the shit two years ago when he's either apologized or it's just moved on. But I get it; it's going to keep happening until he wins one. Because people will only stay interested to see him fail, but when that monkey is off his back, this irrational shit from people will go away
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Are you really saying Bosh isn't injured? If he is still suffering from an admoninal strain getting banged around would be extremely painful......
Dominican Power
Member
How can you be clutch and have a shitty jumpshot?
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
You ask that to people who would rather have star players take a fadeaway 3 than a wide open shot for a role player
bigmit3737
Member
I was going in wanting OKC to win, but I really feel bad for Lebron.
After hearing the commentators talk about how it took him a while to watch last year's finals and learn from his mistakes, I sort of empathized with his feelings.
Also, as everyone mentioned, what is up with Wade?
I'm pretty surprised with what Chalmers (?) performance. What team was he on before he was on the Heat?
After hearing the commentators talk about how it took him a while to watch last year's finals and learn from his mistakes, I sort of empathized with his feelings.
Also, as everyone mentioned, what is up with Wade?
I'm pretty surprised with what Chalmers (?) performance. What team was he on before he was on the Heat?
I sometimes wonder why I dislike Lebron. He has amazing basketball skills but his cocky attitude just sucks. King James? KING? What has he done to be called King? NOTHING! I don't hear King Kareem, King Jordan or King anyone that has been better than Lebron. Why did he even get such a title? Same thing for "King" Felix on the mariners in baseball.
How about "The Decision" dumbest thing ever. If you sign with a different team don't be a circus clown about it and act bigger than the game itself.
I must digress a little because as a Kobe fan I can see how people dislike him so fans of a certain team or player have every right to cheer for and like that player and dislike others for whatever reason they want. My problem is when their "homerism" is so strong they don't recognize they are a good player and give them the proper dues they deserve.
As for the Heat in general as well as Wade and Bosh. All of them seem to act like they are bigger than the game and deserve everything without earning it. Good players but clowns, clowns everywhere. I want old time basketball with little to no tattoos, defense was played and respect was earned by physical play.
CrazyDogg77
Member
I don't think people will just forget what LeBron did and I don't think it's realistic to say people will just forgive and forget especially when he hasn't done what he said he would do.
Like I said, I don't hate LeBron, and he hasn't done shit this year to deserve any derision. He's playing the best ball of his career and has showed up in the playoffs.
The bottom line is that the way people view LeBron is extremely complex, and it's cumulative based on years of insanely intense media coverage. He brought it on himself with shit like the "Worldwide Icon" comment, but he didn't realize what he was getting himself into IMO--because he never took into account the possibility that he might not be the most successful player ever, and that the media adulation would mutate into constant criticism.
What pisses me off is that if OKC wins the chip, all the coverage will be about how LeBron choked and DIDN'T win it, rather than how OKC and Durant did.
CherryWoodFuton
Member
He's streaky but far from being a shitty jumpshooter.
CrazyDogg77
Member
Chalmers has always played for Miami.
jordan0386
Member
Damn, that first segment was on point.
The story is always about the more controversial star with ESPN, nothing new for people who need to fill their column quota
Also I'm not sure why you would be pissed in any scenario if OKC wins, like why would you care
iamshadowlark
Banned
He can give you quality minutes defending any positon, and has proven it many times. You don't tell MJ to try and bang with KG, or kobe or Magic, maybe bird etc. And he's been under a microscope since HS. He brought in on his self by being one og the best HS players ever and NBA ready from the word go. Still doesn't make half the shit that he gets trashed for fair or legit.
They won't for a long time. Cleveland's gonna be holding that chip on their shoulder for a while. Who knows if he'll ever redeem himself for that debacle.
That's fairly similar to my thoughts on LeBron. I don't like him, but I don't hate him.
And you can't totally fault him to wanting to go Miami to win a championship. Of course, he did go about it in a completely dick way (The Decision and the following Miami fan rally).
As much as I don't like him, you can't deny that he's just that DAMN good. So yeah, it's a fairly complex issue on how people view him.
And yeah, if the Heat lose, we'll never hear the end of it on ESPN for the next couple of weeks following the Finals. That said, I still want OKC to win.
At least Bosh was taking open 3s and he was trying to make the shots. Wade is getting clowned cos a lot of those jumpers were just attempts to draw fouls. This ain't 2006, bro! Lol
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
huh?
LBJ cannot defend the five and most fours.. Dude is awesome but inflating his abilities makes people even more irrational...
No he brought it on himself by dancing like an asshole on the sidelines, taking fake pictures before games and holding an ESPN special about his free agency...
He says he's fine, he looks fine, and he's playing a bunch of minutes. He just thinks he's Dirk now. And, regardless of the reason, like I said, he played like crap.