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2012 NBA Offseason |OT|They said I could become anything so I became multiple sources

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Talon

Member
Does Atlanta hate him because he was truely a bad player or just because he was #2?

07-09 his stats were .. pretty dang good.
We don't hate him. I like Marvin. I think he's a good role player, and he never bitches or whines.

It's not his fault that Billy Knight chose him at 2 instead of going with Deron like the rest of the FO wanted.

He just doesn't do anything particularly well. He's an average shooter, an above average defender, average at going to the rim, an average scorer, etc.
 

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
so if you had a team that won't depend on him getting better to win, didn't draft him... and his salary will essentially have no effect on your cap, how would you feel?

He's not a bad player at all.

Just should've never been picked that high over so many great players
 

KingGondo

Banned
We don't hate him. I like Marvin. I think he's a good role player, and he never bitches or whines.

It's not his fault that Billy Knight chose him at 2 instead of going with Deron like the rest of the FO wanted.

He just doesn't do anything particularly well. He's an average shooter, an above average defender, average at going to the rim, an average scorer, etc.
I felt exactly the same way about Jeff Green.

Liked the guy, but he was utterly mediocre.
 

diehard

Fleer
He just doesn't do anything particularly well. He's an average shooter, an above average defender, average at going to the rim, an average scorer, etc.

average?

you just made me feel real good about that trade bro


Jazz franchise is basically in the hands of the development of Hayward and Favors, everyone else is along for the ride.
 
Writeup on this European guy the Nets just signed.

http://netsarescorching.com/2012/06/18/meet-mirza-teletovic/

Skills: Mirza Teletovic is a stretch four with a mean streak. He’ll walk into the NBA and right away have one of the smoothest long distance strokes. His jumper is his most lethal weapon. No matter how close you think you’re guarding him, Mirza will find space to get off his quick release shot. His confidence is always sky-high.

Player Comparison: I’ll go Ryan Anderson on the high-end and Channing Frye on the low-end because of their size, shooting ability, and willingness to put up endless amounts of shots as a comparison. Overall though, he probably has more offensive skills than both if given the right system to work in.

I feel vindicated.

Nice, he get's to play for offensive mastermind Avery Johnson.
 

Talon

Member
I never got Jeff Green. He's a heck of an athlete, but it seemed pretty obvious in college that he was never going to excel at one particular skill.
average?

you just made me feel real good about that trade bro

Jazz franchise is basically in the hands of the development of Hayward and Favors, everyone else is along for the ride.
He hustles. That's what I always liked about Marvin. He never lounges around. He's a good rebounder, and he uses his length well.

You can tell he tries and, to some extent, he's frustrated that his career hasn't panned out as he hoped. I've always liked Marvin and wish him the best.

He's an above average rotation 3. I'm still happy to get him off the books.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Oh wow, that is shocking news McMillan said something to take the blame off himself.

You want more telling?

And the FO obviously thought that Nate was a problem so they let him go. Again, blaming the shit on Crawford is just bitch-made. NATE loss the players.

Raymond fucking Felton is your counter-argument? You already lost.

Do I need to post more quotes of the player voicing out at Nate, so you can READ what was going on behind the cameras? Or will you just admit that the players got tired of his bullshit and wanted him out, which had nothing to do with Crawford? I really don't see how you think you know everything going on when all you do is watch games. Jamal wasn't a big part of it at all he was just the first to blow, Nate was the problem which is why he is jobless right now. He helped get them back relevant so he gets credit there , but he fucked up.

And that's why Crawford and Felton are returning to the Blazers and weren't trying to be traded at the trade deadline, and that's why Camby and Wallace (two other bad lockerroom guys) are still on the roster?

RIGHT? RIGHT?
 
nice comparison from slcdunk.com of Marvin W to the rest of the Jazz wings from last year.
slcdunk.com said:
By PER, Marvin Williams would have been our best wing player last year, even ahead of The Precious, Gordon Hayward. Why? Well, he's simply the most well-rounded: he's a good shooter, good rebounder, and good defender. Importantly, he doesn't turnover the ball on his possessions. Hayward is the best passer of the group. Burks is as aggressive as C.J. Miles, but without the low efficiency. Howard's a decentish rebounder, I guess, but his eFG% is dreadful, leading to a frightening 95 ORTG. He literally contributed less than nothing on offense last year. Awesome. Raja's reluctance to ever, ever, ever shoot, as well as his inability to pass, or rebound, or steal, or block shots, or anything else useful, means that even his good percentages can't save him.

Again, the question becomes defense. As we've been pointing out a lot recently at SLCDunk, our problem last year was largely defensive. It's going to be difficult for Marvin Williams to sustain that DRTG on the Jazz. Let's take a look at the other defensive measures for our wing players:


Player DRTG OPER Net +/- PPP Against
Williams 101 15.1 -2.2 0.86
Hayward 109 10.1 1.7 0.97
Burks 109 14 -2.7 0.81
Miles 108 13.9 0.4 0.86
Howard 107 16 -1.9 0.88
Bell 112 14.1 -2.0 0.94
Carroll 109 18.4 -2.3 1.07

I put together this handy table with the defensive stats we've used in the article. This is why it is so important to look at multiple statistics when considering a player's defense: there are so many contradictions that it's hard to get a definitive view of the situation. If all of the stats tell the same story, then you can really learn something. If most of them do, and a plausible explanation exists for why one differs, then you can make cautious conclusions. This is also when scouting can help us: as an additional point to add to our knowledge of players.

The table shows exactly one thing very definitively: DeMarre Carroll is a very bad defensive player. As for the others:

Williams OPER and PPP against are pretty average. His team defensive numbers are great, and his team is overall slightly better when he's off the floor. To me, this indicates a pretty average defender on a good defensive team, with a good bench.

Hayward: limits his opponent to a terrible, Josh Howard-esque PER, but allows them to get an excellent points per possession average against him. What? It's not that he's preventing opponents from taking shots against him, either: he defended 40% more plays than Marvin Williams did last year. So what gives? My only guess: Hayward forces turnovers, which equal a missed shot in PPP but are worth more in PER. I'm really stumped on this one, though. I need help.

Burks: Slightly better than average in both OPER and PPPA, his team defense stats aren't
great. Probably because he plays with the Jazz. This makes sense.
Miles: Pretty average stats across the board. Cool.

Josh Howard: Best DRTG of the Jazz group, but slightly below average in the other stats. I'm willing to call Howard an average defensive player.

Bell: It's sad, really. We signed him to be the defensive leader of the team, the Kobe stopper. Instead, he has the worst DRTG on the team, pretty bad PPPA, and average OPER. Oh, Raja.

So, in conclusion, Williams' slightly above average efforts on offense and defense put him in a head-to-head battle with Hayward as the best wing on the team. Barring big improvements from either player, it will be interesting to see how this positional battle goes down: will Corbin play both together on the starting lineup, or will he play Millsap at the 3, allowing only one of Hayward and Williams to start? I'm excited to find out.

That being said... it's a big, big improvement for the team to have two above average wing players, not just one. The wing situation held Utah back enormously last year, and this move takes gigantic steps to rectify that.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
The Nets just gave Mirza Teletović a $15mil contract.

Yeah, I don't know either.
 

Meier

Member
There is still a chance that Orlando Magic star Dwight Howard could become a member of the Brooklyn Nets, according to league sources.

The Nets and the Magic are discussing a trade that would send Howard to the Nets for Brook Lopez, Kris Humphries, MarShon Brooks and the Nets' first-round picks in 2013, 2015 and 2017, sources said. Lopez and Humphries, who are both free agents, would go to Orlando in sign-and-trade deals.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8125453/orlando-magic-dwight-howard-go-brooklyn-nets-sources-say

I say take it.
 

Meier

Member
I'd much rather take a package with Bynum and what else the Lakers have to offer.

I don't think we'd get a second or third player at the caliber of Brooks or Humphries from LA. They don't really have the pieces available (there's no way we'd get Pau too) to make for a very compelling trade and that isn't going to change any time soon.

Lopez's health is obviously a concern (foot injuries in big men.. yikes), but if he can get healthy, he's pretty comparable to Bynum. Humphries has turned into a surprisingly good player since ditching Kim. Brooks is kind of a throwaway inclusion, but he had a nice rookie season.
 

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
Do you really want Humphries and Bropez on huge contracts and some really bad picks and prospects?

No. Fuck no.

Please Morey. Call Henny. Make it happen.


I don't think we'd get a second or third player at the caliber of Brooks or Humphries from LA. They don't really have the pieces available (there's no way we'd get Pau too) to make for a very compelling trade and that isn't going to change any time soon.

Lopez's health is obviously a concern (foot injuries in big men.. yikes), but if he can get healthy, he's pretty comparable to Bynum. Humphries has turned into a surprisingly good player since ditching Kim. Brooks is kind of a throwaway inclusion, but he had a nice rookie season.

No he's really not.

If the Magic could do Dwight for Bynum that is a lot better than what the Nets are offering.
 

giga

Member
I don't think we'd get a second or third player at the caliber of Brooks or Humphries from LA. They don't really have the pieces available (there's no way we'd get Pau too) to make for a very compelling trade and that isn't going to change any time soon.

Lopez's health is obviously a concern (foot injuries in big men.. yikes), but if he can get healthy, he's pretty comparable to Bynum. Humphries has turned into a surprisingly good player since ditching Kim. Brooks is kind of a throwaway inclusion, but he had a nice rookie season.
Comparable offense, much worse D and rebounding.
 

Meier

Member
If the Magic could do Dwight for Bynum that is a lot better than what the Nets are offering.

Maybe. Bynum is young but he has extra years on his body from starting out of HS and he has had injury problems as well. I guess we'll see what happens. The only way we can truly recoup Dwight's value is if we get 3-team deal and somehow get a few draft picks from a shitty team.
 
@sam_amick reports Stacey Augmon has been offered an assistant coaching job on Mike Dunlap's #Bobcats staff.

He doesn't have much coaching experience, but he hasn't been out of the NBA that long and can probably still relate with our players, I like the move. We're apparently trying to keep Silas Jr. on the staff too.
 
Bynum for Dwight is only a good deal if you can put together a good team in 2 or 3 years.

Rockets trade has a higher potential for success for ORL. Especially if Dwight walks and they're left with Scola Asik and a legion of PFs. Those picks would become much better.

It all depends if The FO thinks they can turn the team around quickly or not. They shouldn't even be talking to Brooklyn.
 

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
@sam_amick reports Stacey Augmon has been offered an assistant coaching job on Mike Dunlap's #Bobcats staff.

He doesn't have much coaching experience, but he hasn't been out of the NBA that long and can probably still relate with our players, I like the move. We're apparently trying to keep Silas Jr. on the staff too.

Augmon Effect v.2!
 

SoulPlaya

more money than God
If the Nets get Howard, does that make them with D-Will/JJ/wallace/Howard the favorite to win it all next year? Yeah, Avery is their coach, but they should be able to beat the Heat, shouldn't they?
 

DCX

DCX
If the Nets get Howard, does that make them with D-Will/JJ/wallace/Howard the favorite to win it all next year? Yeah, Avery is their coach, but they should be able to beat the Heat, shouldn't they?
No. Heat remain favs along with OKC. Maybe fourth to fifth best potentially.

DCX
 

Vestal

Junior Member
If the Nets get Howard, does that make them with D-Will/JJ/wallace/Howard the favorite to win it all next year? Yeah, Avery is their coach, but they should be able to beat the Heat, shouldn't they?

no.

Favorites next year are still Miami/OKC .. Unless something earth shattering happens.. DWill + Howard ain't earth shattering.
 

SoulPlaya

more money than God
no.

Favorites next year are still Miami/OKC .. Unless something earth shattering happens.. DWill + Howard ain't earth shattering.
I don't know.

I think

D-Will
JJ
Wallace
????
Howard

is a really strong lineup. Overpaid yes, and badly coached, but MIA and OKC are badly coached too.
 
If the Nets get Howard, does that make them with D-Will/JJ/wallace/Howard the favorite to win it all next year? Yeah, Avery is their coach, but they should be able to beat the Heat, shouldn't they?

Come on, man. Look at JJ's contract, think about what Derron and Dwight will likely get. Now compare that the the >18 mil that the Heat's big three gets and look at the supporting cast that they can afford while paying a whole lot of luxury taxes. Finally, think about what tax the Nets would be wiling to pay and what supporting class they could even afford.
 
Took the Heat a season to figure out how to play together. Also, when they were made the immediate EC favorite, they weren't competing against Lebron James, Chris Bosh, and Dwyane Wade after winning a championship.

Lark is right on this.
 

SoulPlaya

more money than God
Come on, man. Look at JJ's contract, think about what Derron and Dwight will likely get. Now compare that the the >18 mil that the Heat's big three gets and look at the supporting cast that they can afford while paying whole lot of luxury taxes. Finally, think about what tax the Nets would be wiling to pay and what supporting class they could even afford.
Their owner is a billionaire who doesn't seem to mind the tax.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
AWoj said:
As Orlando works to unload Dwight Howard, Magic focusing on Lakers' Andrew Bynum as top target, sources tell Y! Sports. Story soon on site.
.
 

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
Took the Heat a season to figure out how to play together. Also, when they were made the immediate EC favorite, they weren't competing against Lebron James, Chris Bosh, and Dwyane Wade after winning a championship.

Lark is right on this.

They still don't play together. But it doesn't matter when you can steamroll the vast majority of teams that you run into.

That game 5 was the best they've ever looked. Hell, the only reason most of (non "HE LIED) NBA-GAF hates on him is because that team never plays to it's potential. Style & Bullshit is their entire gameplan.
 

SoulPlaya

more money than God
Took the Heat a season to figure out how to play together. Also, when they were made the immediate EC favorite, they weren't competing against Lebron James, Chris Bosh, and Dwyane Wade after winning a championship.

Lark is right on this.
I think it will be much easier for the Nets, because their players will have pretty defined roles, naturally. They don't have to worry about two players who play similar style ball, and how they can play together.
 
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