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2012 NBA Offseason |OT|They said I could become anything so I became multiple sources

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J

Jonm1010

Banned
Justin Timberlake said:
Honestly, with the way this league's future looks, you can tank for a decade and it won't mean shit

OKC+MIA has more talent than the remaining 28 teams combined. Once Deron/Dwight move, Kevin Love will be the only good/great player in the bottom twenty, twenty-two teams (MIA, OKC, LAL, LAC, SAS, BOS, CHI, DAL). A few of the top teams are getting old too, so I expect it to consolidate even further.

The difference between the top and the bottom has never been so large.
Click to expand...

Right now I agree. Parity is definately at an all time low. In a couple years I don't know.

Without a doubt a few teams are going to hit the jackpot with a couple young superstars and give those teams a challenge eventually. And some young teams are going to develop and add the right pieces.

Wade is already on the decline and their salary cap in a few years after the new penalties kick in is going to be horrible from what I understand, and the Thunder aren't going to be able to retain everyone.

I feel like more than anything the league is comprised of some really shitty owners and some even worse general managers.
 
N

Nelo Ice

Banned
Jonm1010 said:
Right now I agree. Parity is definately at an all time low. In a couple years I don't know.

Without a doubt a few teams are going to hit the jackpot with a couple young superstars and give those teams a challenge eventually. And some young teams are going to develop and add the right pieces.

Wade is already on the decline and their salary cap in a few years after the new penalties kick in is going to be horrible from what I understand, and the Thunder aren't going to be able to retain everyone.

I feel like more than anything the league is comprised of some really shitty owners and some even worse general managers.
Click to expand...

That's what I've been saying since last offseason. But apparently it's because big market teams always win not that nearly every other team has hilariously bad management and or ownership.
 
L

LegendofJoe

Member
Justin Timberlake said:
Damage? What kind of damage?

Scrape their way to an 8th seed and then get swept by the superteams year after year, only to join them later, because its the only option if they want to win?

Cause thats what we're headed towards.

[and holy shit if Wall and Monroe are the best you could come up with for the remaining 22 teams, then you're just proving my point lol]
Click to expand...

It has nothing to do with there being an impenetrable wall for teams lacking superstar talent. It has more to do with teams that employ terrible GMs that have no business running a professional sports organization. It's a culture problem of owners being lazy and hiring from the good old boy network of former players.

Regarding Wall and Monroe though Wall hasn't come anywhere close to reaching his potential. It's not his fault he has the misfortune of playing on a team with one the worst GMs in the league. And Monroe, he went from averaging 9 points and 7 boards as a rookie to 15 points and 10 boards in his second year. There isn't much talent at the Center position in the NBA, but even then in just his second year Monroe is a top 5 player at his position.
 
J

Justin Timberlake

Member
Jonm1010 said:
Right now I agree. Parity is definately at an all time low. In a couple years I don't know.

Without a doubt a few teams are going to hit the jackpot with a couple young superstars and give those teams a challenge eventually. And some young teams are going to develop and add the right pieces.

Wade is already on the decline and their salary cap in a few years after the new penalties kick in is going to be horrible from what I understand, and the Thunder aren't going to be able to retain everyone.
Click to expand...

And how long have we been waiting for these teams to fall apart? They retool and reform because they have the best management and an attractive culture of winning. Also, their owners are willing to spend...let alone the hundreds of other reasons that give top teams an advantage, which I have been harping on for years.

Get used to Oklahoma City. They are going to be here for a decade+. Same with Chicago. Miami at least 5 years. LAC is an unknown but I suspect Paul will re-sign, and if he does, expect a half-decade as well. And the Lakers/Spurs will always be good. Same for DAL as long as they have Cuban. Boston is iffy, and the most vulnerable, but shit they just made the ECF. I'd say they're in good shape for a little while.

Jonm1010 said:
I feel like more than anything the league is comprised of some really shitty owners and some even worse general managers.
Click to expand...

I'll agree in the sense that Minnesota in particular ought to be a superteam. But most other teams simply haven't had the opportunity. Sure, they've been mismanaged, but I'm not sure even the best management could have made those teams top level.

Lets not forget though, that the best front office talent goes to the best teams. Its common knowledge by now that a job in San Antonio is the fastest way to becoming a GM. Experience in Charlotte doesn't have the same impact on a resume.

Besides, no one with half a brain would want to risk their career under some of these stingy owners. Some of these GM jobs aren't exactly coveted.
 
B

Bowser

Member
Justin Timberlake said:
And how long have we been waiting for these teams to fall apart? They retool and reform because they have the best management and an attractive culture of winning. Also, their owners are willing to spend...

Get used to Oklahoma City. They are going to be here for a decade+. Same with Chicago. Miami at least 5 years. LAC is an unknown but I suspect Paul will re-sign, and if he does, expect a half-decade as well. And the Lakers/Spurs will always be good. Same for DAL as long as they have Cuban. Boston is iffy, and the most vulnerable, but shit they just made the ECF. I'd say they're in good shape for a little while.

Wade is already on the decline and their salary cap in a few years after the new penalties kick in is going to be horrible from what I understand, and the Thunder aren't going to be able to retain everyone.



I'll agree in the sense that Minnesota in particular ought to be a superteam. But most other teams simply haven't had the opportunity. Sure, they've been mismanaged, but I'm not sure even the best management could have made those teams top level.

Lets not forget though, that the best front office talent goes to the best teams. Its common knowledge by now that a job in San Antonio is the fastest way to becoming a GM. Experience in Charlotte doesn't have the same impact on a resume.

Besides, no one with half a brain would want to risk their career under some of these stingy owners. Some of these GM jobs aren't exactly coveted.
Click to expand...

Wait til CHODAGOD makes us into a powerhouse, then everyone will want to intern in Charlotte!
 
J

Jonm1010

Banned
Nelo Ice said:
That's what I've been saying since last offseason. But apparently it's because big market teams always win not that nearly every other team has hilariously bad management and or ownership.
Click to expand...

Well big market teams do have the fortune of being a destination spot and having more money......then again there is the Knicks, so, yeah.

But the spurs, thunder and Indiana have shown you can create competitive teams without the big market.

Problem is most other organizations can't put together a competent management team and/or are too obsessed with the win now mentality that they blow their load on middling talent that won't get them anywhere.
 
L

LegendofJoe

Member
Justin Timberlake said:
And how long have we been waiting for these teams to fall apart? They retool and reform because they have the best management and an attractive culture of winning. Also, their owners are willing to spend...let alone the hundreds of other reasons that give top teams an advantage, which I have been harping on for years.

Besides, no one with half a brain would want to risk their career under some of these stingy owners. Some of these GM jobs aren't exactly coveted.
Click to expand...

So you agree that bad ownership and management is a larger problem than the big teams having an established advantage?
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Justin Timberlake said:
Right.

And then we're gonna have 5 super teams instead of 8.

lol

[tho those same teams, particularly LAL/DAL, might form a brand new super team before that happens]
Click to expand...

Dirk for Bynum needs to happen. C'mon Cubam you salty bastard you owe it to him. You betrayed Dirk worse than the dude who lied about being pregnant by him.
 
N

Nelo Ice

Banned
Jonm1010 said:
Well big market teams do have the fortune of being a destination spot and having more money......then again there is the Knicks, so, yeah.

But the spurs, thunder and Indiana have shown you can create competitive teams without the big market.

Problem is most other organizations can't put together a competent management team and/or are too obsessed with the win now mentality that they blow their load on middling talent that won't get them anywhere.
Click to expand...

Yeah big market teams always have an advantage but it's only an advantage if management /ownership isn't completely useless. It's incredible to see how every freaking offseason teams overpay for average players and we all know those contracts end up being magically valuable in 2-4 years when they start expiring and are traded for more bad contracts or so they can make another bad contract later in the offseason :lol.
 
B

Brinbe

Member
hmmmm....

The Raptors have reportedly agreed to a trade with the Houston Rockets to acquire point guard Kyle Lowry in exchange for draft picks. Internet sources say the Raptors will send as many as four draft picks to the Rockets, two first-round picks and two second-round pick. One of the first rounders is to be a lottery pick.
Click to expand...

*dead*

But probably not a credible source.
 
B

Bowser

Member
Brinbe said:
hmmmm....



*dead*
Click to expand...

rULL3.gif
 
M

Matrix

LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world he’d rather have. The problem is, Dwyane’s not a woman.
I come back and see Rockets to meet with .... Aaron Brooks LMAO

I'm living in a f-ing bizzaro Rockets world.
 
J

Jonm1010

Banned
Justin Timberlake said:
And how long have we been waiting for these teams to fall apart? They retool and reform because they have the best management and an attractive culture of winning. Also, their owners are willing to spend...let alone the hundreds of other reasons that give top teams an advantage, which I have been harping on for years.

Get used to Oklahoma City. They are going to be here for a decade+. Same with Chicago. Miami at least 5 years. LAC is an unknown but I suspect Paul will re-sign, and if he does, expect a half-decade as well. And the Lakers/Spurs will always be good. Same for DAL as long as they have Cuban. Boston is iffy, and the most vulnerable, but shit they just made the ECF. I'd say they're in good shape for a little while.



I'll agree in the sense that Minnesota in particular ought to be a superteam. But most other teams simply haven't had the opportunity. Sure, they've been mismanaged, but I'm not sure even the best management could have made those teams top level.

Lets not forget though, that the best front office talent goes to the best teams. Its common knowledge by now that a job in San Antonio is the fastest way to becoming a GM. Experience in Charlotte doesn't have the same impact on a resume.

Besides, no one with half a brain would want to risk their career under some of these stingy owners. Some of these GM jobs aren't exactly coveted.
Click to expand...
San Antonio, Oklahoma city and Miami didn't just happen in a vacuum though. Two of those three aren't destination cities.

You can honestly see exactly why a lot of organizations have failed. Just an hour ago I was looking over a piece about the suns draft history and it's amazing how much talent they let walk, traded, sold the rights for for cash. A lot of teams are just the victims of their own stupidity.
http://hoopspeak.com/2012/07/steve-nash-to-the-lakers-suns-to-the-bargain-bin/

Hell look at the hornets. We had the potential to be a powerhouse a few years back but we got cold feet with chandler and shipped him off for worse talent that didn't fit in. We overpaid guys like posey. Drafted poorly and let the few good draft picks we had leave because our coach had an over the hill veteran fetish. Our problem was management more then anything.

I don't think it is as impenetrable of a wall as you are making it out to be though. Especially with the new luxury tax implications in a few years. If the heat are bleeding money now, in about two years it's going to be a bloodbath unless one or all of their players severely restructure. I still say it mostly comes down to management. Too many teams chasing and overpaying for middling talent and too many teams unable to properly rebuild an organization with a proper vision and focus and getting the right people to do it.
 
S

squicken

Member
Justin Timberlake said:
I'd say its part of the advantage.
Click to expand...

Yeah there is some crazy revisionism here. Kobe is in LA b/c pre-draft he said he would only play in a large market. Most teams passed on him b/c of that, and Charlotte traded him for Divac. Every team in the NBA would have traded Divac's level talent for him at the time

Shaq wanted out of Orlando b/c he hated Penny but also b/c he wanted to make Shazzam and other great films. The way they dumped salary to fit him in was clever but every team in the league would have done the same thing to get him on their roster.

Nash and his wife are rich. Rich divorced women don't move to Flint, Michigan. Nash wants to be near his kids, and amazingly, his rich divorced wife chose to live in LA. Every team in the league would have given late 1s and 2s to get Nash in a sign and trade.

No doubt that there are crap GMs. All of these guys wanting to be in large markets makes you wonder why then Knicks have been awful for so long. But these crap GMs also don't have the same options that teams with established stars do. They have to chose between guys who are willing to come there, and to get guys to come to a doormat team, they have to overpay.

It's similar to the repeating cycle of failure the NFL had where bad teams were punished b/c they had to tie up so much money in bad rookie deals. There's no smart GMing your way to relevancy if you are the Bobcats. You have to tank and hope the you get lucky in the lottery in a year where there is a good talent pool. If the NBA was as poor at evaluating talent as many of you suggest we'd see more superstars that were drafted outside the top 20.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
squicken said:
Yeah there is some crazy revisionism here. Kobe is in LA b/c pre-draft he said he would only play in a large market. Most teams passed on him b/c of that, and Charlotte traded him for Divac. Every team in the NBA would have traded Divac's level talent for him at the time

.
Click to expand...

Such bullshit. Were you even around back then?


lol @ Jamal Crawford on Clips for that money. Caron Butler II
 
C

CoffeeJanitor

Member
squicken said:
Yeah there is some crazy revisionism here. Kobe is in LA b/c pre-draft he said he would only play in a large market. Most teams passed on him b/c of that, and Charlotte traded him for Divac. Every team in the NBA would have traded Divac's level talent for him at the time

Shaq wanted out of Orlando b/c he hated Penny but also b/c he wanted to make Shazzam and other great films. The way they dumped salary to fit him in was clever but every team in the league would have done the same thing to get him on their roster.

Nash and his wife are rich. Rich divorced women don't move to Flint, Michigan. Nash wants to be near his kids, and amazingly, his rich divorced wife chose to live in LA. Every team in the league would have given late 1s and 2s to get Nash in a sign and trade.

No doubt that there are crap GMs. All of these guys wanting to be in large markets makes you wonder why then Knicks have been awful for so long. But these crap GMs also don't have the same options that teams with established stars do. They have to chose between guys who are willing to come there, and to get guys to come to a doormat team, they have to overpay.

It's similar to the repeating cycle of failure the NFL had where bad teams were punished b/c they had to tie up so much money in bad rookie deals. There's no smart GMing your way to relevancy if you are the Bobcats. You have to tank and hope the you get lucky in the lottery in a year where there is a good talent pool. If the NBA was as poor at evaluating talent as many of you suggest we'd see more superstars that were drafted outside the top 20.
Click to expand...
Moral of the story, teams in big media markets have it easier. More money (more willing to go into lux), better destinations. It does not guarantee success but it certainly makes things easier.
 
B

Brinbe

Member
Thank Christ, if it's just the one. I can certainly live with that, 100%. A Lowry/Ross backcourt, under Casey's coaching? That's definitely something to get excited about. Now we just need to bundle some of these players for a real swing (NotFields) to start @ the 3.

And the Raptors aren't wasting anytime... http://instagram.com/p/MteYZwRHGB/

Meh, BC's going all-in anyway. So we'll be a perennial 9th at worst. And if we end up any worse, Colangelo's is getting canned.
 
T

thekad

Banned
The pick is top 1 protected, but rolls over if the Raptors make the playoffs - for five years.

Colangelo makes Morey look good.
 
D

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
Black Mamba said:
Such bullshit. Were you even around back then?
Click to expand...

How is he wrong? Divac was a damned good center. Kobe was an unproven, shit talking hype beast with an asshole agent. Teams that didn't have to fill a need through the draft and that were in position to compete at a playoff level make that trade all day.
 
M

Matrix

LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world he’d rather have. The problem is, Dwyane’s not a woman.
thekad said:
The pick is top 1 protected, but rolls over if the Raptors make the playoffs - for five years.

Colangelo makes Morey look good.
Click to expand...

jesus
 
F

Flash

Member
thekad said:
The pick is top 1 protected, but rolls over if the Raptors make the playoffs - for five years.

Colangelo makes Morey look good.
Click to expand...

lol wow, only top 1? here's hoping we just miss the playoffs next year :\

Not sure if I'm happy with the trade, Colangelo should have worked harder for better protection. Top 5 at least.

thekad said:
It would be funny if that pick turns into Nerlens Noel.
Click to expand...

Raptors will be better then they were last year. I see the pick being in the 10 to 14 range which is fine for Lowry.
 
J

Jonm1010

Banned
CoffeeJanitor said:
Moral of the story, teams in big media markets have it easier. More money (more willing to go into lux), better destinations. It does not guarantee success but it certainly makes things easier.
Click to expand...

Pretty much, but it's certainly possible to be successful without a big market or a marquee city.

San Antonio, Oklahoma, memphis and most recently Indiana have proven that.

And its not going to be impossible to build a contender, especially with the new luxury tax penalties, for small markets. It's just harder and the margin for error is much smaller.
 
F

Fenderputty

Banned
Justin Timberlake said:
And how long have we been waiting for these teams to fall apart? They retool and reform because they have the best management and an attractive culture of winning. Also, their owners are willing to spend...let alone the hundreds of other reasons that give top teams an advantage, which I have been harping on for years.

Get used to Oklahoma City. They are going to be here for a decade+. Same with Chicago. Miami at least 5 years. LAC is an unknown but I suspect Paul will re-sign, and if he does, expect a half-decade as well. And the Lakers/Spurs will always be good. Same for DAL as long as they have Cuban. Boston is iffy, and the most vulnerable, but shit they just made the ECF. I'd say they're in good shape for a little while.



I'll agree in the sense that Minnesota in particular ought to be a superteam. But most other teams simply haven't had the opportunity. Sure, they've been mismanaged, but I'm not sure even the best management could have made those teams top level.

Lets not forget though, that the best front office talent goes to the best teams. Its common knowledge by now that a job in San Antonio is the fastest way to becoming a GM. Experience in Charlotte doesn't have the same impact on a resume.

Besides, no one with half a brain would want to risk their career under some of these stingy owners. Some of these GM jobs aren't exactly coveted.
Click to expand...

Cleavland should have been a contender but blew their chance at wining with Lebron (we now know it can be done). NY is another great example of a team that should be dominant but isn't because of management. They're not even a small market. The Magic? They're about to lose Howard because of crappy management. Minny is a great example of a team with chances that have been wasted. Atlanta, until recently, has been a frist round exit machine because of large contracts.

Don't get me wrong ... I think location and market size help a team out, but I felt like the quality of management/ownership was downplayed as a roll with how these lesser teams fair during the last CBA.

OKC and Memphis are good examples of teams who've built and held onto quality players as small market teams.
 
B

Bowser

Member
DY_nasty said:
How is he wrong? Divac was a damned good center. Kobe was an unproven, shit talking hype beast with an asshole agent. Teams that didn't have to fill a need through the draft and that were in position to compete at a playoff level make that trade all day.
Click to expand...

I think you guys have the same position. JT is saying every team in the league would have traded Divac for a guy like Kobe in 1996, which is simply false. Kobe was an unproven 18 year old out of HS, and, if I recall correctly, the first guard to jump directly to the pros. I think a majority of teams would have hesitated trading a proven asset like Divac for an unproven 18 year old guard like Kobe back then.
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider
When we see the actual contract, the Jamal Crawford deal will be much closer to $15M than $25M in guaranteed money

Dat fake money. It's like an NFL contract!

Still way too much for Jamal Crawford.
 
T

thekad

Banned
Nevermind, it's top 3 protected for next year, then top 2 for the next two years, then top 1 for the last two. I was hoping the Raptors could make a jump in the lottery, but it looks like we just have to hope they're terrible :(
 
P

parasight

Member
I was going to say Houston & Toronto are having terrible off seasons thus far, until I read the deal about Lowry. Now Houston is the lone loser. What's Morey doing? Who's going to play PG? Royce?
 
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