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2012 NBA Offseason |OT|They said I could become anything so I became multiple sources
- Thread starter Rodeo Clown
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You need us.
Red Blaster
Member
In return for what? Magic Rocks? When Houston deals him it will be to move up in the draft to so that they can get someont like Waiters or maybe a center like Drummond or Leonard. The only thing the magic has that Houston would want is Howard, who they would trade Lowry, Scola, Martin, and their pick for Howard and Ryno.
The Frankman
Banned
Anderson can't be traded.
Now this works ---> http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6luzy9n
Replace Turkey with Redick and I could see that happening.
marathonfool
Member
You guys should just take Robinson. He's the 2nd best player in this draft. He'll be an All-Star.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
If Perry Jones liked basketball or was good at anything other than shooting fadeaways, he would be a beast. What a beastly combine.
I'm not surprised that Farmar had a 42" vertical. He came out of southern Cali and was a year younger than me and went to our HS Rival School.
There were stories of him wearing ankle weights on both ankles for 3 years straight without ever taking them off. Playing basketball in them, taking showers in them even.
There were stories of him wearing ankle weights on both ankles for 3 years straight without ever taking them off. Playing basketball in them, taking showers in them even.
marathonfool
Member
That is ridiculous for a 7 footer at 280
jordan0386
Member
Perry Jones. Yes yes yes.
Drummond is a super athlete for sure. Doesn't know how to play basketball though.
Hakeem & Dwight didn't know how to play ball @ 18 either, all athleticism and no skill. It's just a matter of putting it together or not, and he does know how to play defense, his offense needs a lot of work.
How he turns out depends on who drafts him, strictly from a physical standpoint I don't know of any real comparisons that you can find for him in the last 20 years.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Jordan is a good bit more explosive than Drummond, combine verts don't matter in the NBA.
And Drummond is more than likely faster, I don't see how he's more explosive either.
The weight/bulk is what makes him different, if he can get even a rudimentary post game in the next few years, it will be hard to stop him from getting deep post position.
He could be a massive bust, but he also could be a monster in time.
marathonfool
Member
Drummond's prospect rests entirely on the team that drafts him. At first I hated the thought of drafting him, but his physical gifts are tantalizing. Not many players can match up with him. Hard to judge how he'll shake up. I can see him being an underachiever.
I don't think he'll be a bust though. Hard to be a bust with that type of size and athleticism.
I don't think he'll be a bust though. Hard to be a bust with that type of size and athleticism.
He and Perry are the biggest gambles in the draft, highest risk and reward is associated with them.
marathonfool
Member
Seriously, Drummond would have to work really hard to be a bust. He's a freakish long 280 pound, low fat percentage, athletic big man. He literally has to be so lazy to bust that badly. Maybe he'll never be a good offensive player, but he'll be a good defensive center. Even those players are few and far between in today's NBA.
Remember when people used to think DeAndre Jordan would make a great defensive center?
And "just getting a post game" doesn't happen. It's been years and Dwight still doesn't have one...the only guy I can think of who came into the league as a complete blank slate of offensive skill and developed one was Bynum.
But Bynum spent years with Kareem, and he had the luxury of 0 expectations for his first 4 or 5 seasons. He's also the biggest person in basketball. Even with everything Bynum is, we'd be better off trading him than keeping him.
As a Laker fan, I'm glad we never have to worry about the draft because we never use any of our draft picks anyway. Saves me a lot of hassle and time thinking about it.
And "just getting a post game" doesn't happen. It's been years and Dwight still doesn't have one...the only guy I can think of who came into the league as a complete blank slate of offensive skill and developed one was Bynum.
But Bynum spent years with Kareem, and he had the luxury of 0 expectations for his first 4 or 5 seasons. He's also the biggest person in basketball. Even with everything Bynum is, we'd be better off trading him than keeping him.
As a Laker fan, I'm glad we never have to worry about the draft because we never use any of our draft picks anyway. Saves me a lot of hassle and time thinking about it.
His floor is pretty much DeAndre Jordan, defensive anchor, but nobody wants that with a top 10 pick to be honest. That is why even if he's just solid people will call him a bust, Kwame Brown at 1 is a bust, Kwame at 20 and later on is great pick since you get a rotational big.
Drummond's ceiling is whatever he wants it to be based on the work he puts in, he has a strong base in terms of lower body, his legs aren't twigs so he could easily carry weight if he goes into the weight room. He said he played the season @ 285-290lbs, he needs to understand that he's pretty much has a weight advantage or a speed advantage in matchups. His development is completely dependent on the team that drafts him and how hard they can get him to work.
He's not a knucklehead in the least bit, just seems like a big kid which makes sense considering his age. His scouting report is very similar to Dwight's, Chad Ford said Dwight was trying to show teams he could shoot 3s in his draft workouts and wasn't at all serious...
Dwight doesn't have a back to the basket game, but he does have a post game, he can score for himself in isolations. He's not an elite scorer or anything but he can do it.
Someone will take him. But most will know this all means shit with his lack of heart and desire.
Knux-Future
Banned
The problem with Drummond is that he isn't even junior year Dwight good and he's coming out of after his freshmen year in college of looking terrible. Words don't describe how bad this guy is.
How long has he been in the league? geez guy
Dwight had zero offense in HS, it was simply be bigger than everyone else. I got a chance to see him in HS play against Sebastian Telfair @ the Primetime shootout and I thought he was terrible. But he put work in once he got to the NBA and didn't resemble the player I saw a few months earlier. Drummond had a bad season, but he wasn't "terrible" if you're looking at him from the scope of how freshmen big men used to do.
Also, here's Dwight's scouting report -
We'll see how his stock is once teams get him in for the individual workouts.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Drummond had a far worse than most Freshman big men who go high in the draft. Derrick Favors got killed all the time for his lack of offense and may still not be a big scorer in the NBA, but Favors at 18 was a first-option by the end of the his Freshman season who was getting posted up every time he could get the ball. Drummond was the NCAA version of Joel Anthony.
Drummond had a better freshman season than Enes Kanter.....
Favors is a 4, Drummond projects to be a 5.
You do know players can improve right? I mean Hibbert wouldn't have even been drafted if he tried to come out after his freshman year.
I have seen him play, many times, however I understand that players can actually get better. He showed flashes from time to time, and if someone can teach him to use his body he could be very good. I don't understand how that situation @ Uconn can just be ignored as well.
I've said many times he could be a bust (He and Perry), it all depends on where he goes and how he works.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
he should be the number two pick lock.. With his skillset this should be Shaq/Zo 2
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
He and Perry are going to teams that will give them PT.. I think Perry might have a Glen Robinson type career. But I am getting serious Tyrus Thomas/Swift vibes from Drum
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Everything you said in here is true but proved nothing about if he will bust or not... Most NBA coaches don't have the luxury to babysit a kid until he can play in the NBA.. He should have stayed one more year...Drummond had a better freshman season than Enes Kanter.....
Favors is a 4, Drummond projects to be a 5.
You do know players can improve right? I mean Hibbert wouldn't have even been drafted if he tried to come out after his freshman year.
I think teams in this day and age are afraid to take the next "Kwame" so they talk themselves out of big guys more than they would with guards. I don't hear anyone saying Beal or Waiters could be the next Randy Foye, even though that's a possibility.
Just a few years ago everyone took the "sure thing" in Michael Beasley, Brook Lopez went 10th, JaVale and Hibbert went 17th and 18th. Say what you want about JaVale, but if you do that draft again the Heat would be happy to have him over Supercoolbeas.
I like Perry, just not sure what position he'll play, he could be Anthony Randolph part 2. As for Drummond, when it comes to big men like that Im a "swing for the fences" type of person, if he's a bust so be it, you still end up with a 6"11 280lbs space eater that should be able to rebound and block shots.
I agree with that, that's why I say it's situation dependent, like if Charlotte picks him it's a wrap for his career. They'll just throw him on the floor from the get go.
If he falls to Portland I think they'd have more patience with him & bring him along slowly, especially after how things went with Oden.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
You do know that Bogut*, Oden**, Darko, Andrea, Thabeet, Okafor were all selected with the first or second pick since Kawme Brown.. And the list of bust to meh big men gets longer if you expand it to the third pick.. So the theory that they are scared of drafting the next Kawme is completely unfounded..
*Decent player just not number oe franchise changing good
** fair or unfair Oden is a bust
Beez was a tweener and that was always a concern with him coming out of college. They rolled the dice and didn't win.. A lot of players, Anthony Randolph for one, were selected in front of McGee mostly because he went to struggling school and is really truly stupid..
Joe Dumas was also a swing for the fences type of person
A more athletic Earl Clark.
My point was in relation to wings, less questions seem to come up with wing players than they do with bigs. Teams are more critical with big guys than they are with wing players, it's how Evan Turner goes before Boogie and Greg Monroe, even though I thought it was pretty obvious he didn't have the athleticism to create @ the NBA level like he did in college, good player but they're both better. There's more talk of the "next Kwame" than there is of the next Foye, or some other garbage combo guard.
Also, how you gonna call Andrea a big? Shaq, Hakeem, Moses, Walton, Ewing, McAdoo, Kareem, Admiral, Duncan and Chuck are rolling over in their graves right now. Also, international scouting has gotten better because of the Euro-Kwame fiasco.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Going to call him a big because he plays the he plays the 4 and 5? You have to call him what he plays.. Just like we call Rose a PG when he is really just a small SG..
And talk of the next Brown is because of all the major bust at number one how many of them were wings? Pretty much none.. If you expand it to the top 3 you get more.. But Brown was just the most high profile one of late and that was more because of Jordan.. You have to a speical wing to get drafted one in the NBA.. Last wing to get drafted at number one was LBJ and before him AI if you call him a SG, and before him GlenRobinson..
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
I don't want to seem like I think he will be good.. But he has a decent looking jumper that could translate into range.. Personally 8-13 range is a great gamble for PJ IMO
The Raptors are considering moving him to the 3 this year, I will never call him a big, he's just some really tall dude out there shooting 3s and not rebounding.
I just think there was a shift, after the 07 draft it seems teams would take any wing or PG over big guys if it were close and a hard decision to make.
Bigs taken in top 10.
08 - 2 (3 if you count supercool)
09 - 3
10 - 4
11 - 4
07 - 6
06 - 6
05 - 5
04 - 3 (Still LOL @ Rafael Araujo)
03 - 4
02 - 6
01 - 6
So while big guys might still go 1 or 2, it seems to me teams have gotten a lot more weary of drafting them in the top 10 to me. Maybe they're doing their homework better now, but I think sometimes they go overboard looking for flaws, which is why you can find big guys that are gems later which is something that really didn't happen before.
There are plenty of guys I like - but I don't need to jock them like they're the second coming to do it.
Drummond is easily the worst hyped big I've ever seen. He isn't even Robert Swift good right now. You say that he can someday get to an all-star level - I say that his road of getting there would be the farthest road traveled since Kobe took the bus to Denver.
Cool, so who do you actually want the Bobcats to draft, I get it you don't want Drummond.
Just for your reaction, I hope they do take him though.
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