Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
I love how SA cries small market... They are almost among the top in salaries every season.
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2012 NBA Offseason |OT2| Lakers Fans Despise Freedom.
- Thread starter Rodeo Clown
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I love how SA cries small market... They are almost among the top in salaries every season.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
The Raps aren't actually a small market. Toronto's like the 4th or 5th largest city in North America, and more liveable than lots of other places like Houston, Philly or DC. There's a shit ton of money here, it's a global financial and corporate capital. Weather, taxes & going through customs are the drags on player recruitment.
You're right about the once in a generation talent thing, but there was reason to believe that the right front office and the right star could duplicate San Antonio or whoever. But now you don't just need one guy on the 1st or 2nd All NBA team to compete, you need 2-3, or at least a bunch of all stars now.
Ninja Scooter
Member
But SA had other big stars with Duncan when they won titles (Robinson, Parker, Manu) and OKC now has Harden and Westbrook to complement Durant. You could never win with just one, unless it's something of an outlier like Hakeem, and you could never win with just a bunch of really good players, unless, again, it's an outlier like the 04 Pistons. The Leagues has always been ruled by super teams. Larry's Celtics had 3 HoF'ers. So did Magic's Lakers. So did the Bulls. When will people stop pretending this is some new trend that is destroying the league when it is what the league was built on?
San Antonio isn't winning anything now. And the Thunder were originally from a big market before they got stolen. Being buddy-buddy with Stern is basically the same as being big market I guess.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
The point isn't to make the playoffs russian roulette... But to make rebuilding easier for smaller markets. NFL has done that well.. I hate the hard cap, I miss the old NFL. But the hard cap did what they promised it would
ryutaro's mama
Member
Serious question, if Shaq and Kobe don't act like children and keep the team together, even if you include what happened in 2003 and 2004, do the 5pur5 win in 2005 and 2007?
Kobe in his prime plus Shaq and Phil never leaves?
We'll never know...
Kobe in his prime plus Shaq and Phil never leaves?
We'll never know...
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
If a voodoo doctor....
Ninja Scooter
Member
Probably. All those playoff games were taking their toll on the team and the supporting cast was worn out and busted. Mitch did a shitty job of reloading the role players.
I'm surprised no ones brought back the competitive balance argument lol. I remember last year people complained it wasn't fair the Lakers weren't stupid and they shouldn't improve their team in order to maintain competitive balance.
ryutaro's mama
Member
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
60+ wins per year and going up 2-0 in the WCF is definitely not winning anything now.
who says you have to win right away? When Jordan got drafted Celtics, Lakers and Sixers. Sixers had just made 3 of the 4 previous Finals so they had talent.
Chicago drafted that once in a lifetime talent, ended up building on that a few years later with Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant and then came the championships.
these superteams are old, and aren't going to be superteams in 3-4 years.
like someone said, the teams that were shit now aren't effected by this. draft properly and bring in some quality players to surround him with and he probably won't leave unless he's a diva like Melo or DWill.
if you fail to put talent around your star like Cleveland or Orlando, you have no one to blame but yourself.
Yeah the move from Seattle was totally on the up-and-up.
Ninja Scooter
Member
of course it wasn't. it was bullshit and underhanded. But that doesn't mean that in return for their cooperation, the Thunder were just handed Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka and Harden. Take off the tinfoil cap. Regardless of if they were in Seattle or OKC, the Sonics/Thunder were going to build a nice young core of players.
Khalifa Jayy
Banned
Someone put Kobe's face on Bolt's and Dwight's on the volunteer hahaha
Cheeeeeeeesin'
Cheeeeeeeesin'
ryutaro's mama
Member
The problem with Brandi's logic is, if Stern was about "hooking up his buddies" how the fuck did he allow MARK FUCKING CUBAN to chip when, according to Brandi, he fucked him just 5 years prior?
HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?
No, they just get more calls than any team in the league. No one would know who Ibaka was if he played for the Bucks because he'd play five minutes before getting called for 3 fouls and 2 goaltends.
Dirk was just too good. Unlike other superstars he doesn't need his team to be stacked with HOFers to win a title.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Seriously. They drafted Shaq, CWebb and Dwight and have nothing to show for it and we should feel bad for them? Most teams never get to draft ONE guy with that kind of talent, let alone 3.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
I get that. Aside from that one Pistons team, nobody's ever won it without having a guy on the all time top 50 list, or who's going to be. And you need a sidekick, multifaceted role players, depth, etc.
But surely you can see that there's a density of talent happening now on the top teams that never has before. And that it's going to be a domino effect, as hyper-competitive stars realize they don't have a shot unless they team up with another superstar or two, and in a place where there's enough money and perks of the market to attract and keep a solid supporting cast. I don't see how you avoid winding up with a top tier and everybody else being their glorified farm system.
Clearly Cuban did not do enough for Stern and he was screwed over since Deron and Dwight didn't choose Dallas.
Khalifa Jayy
Banned
They also let Corey Maggette slip away. Unforgivable.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
The 1969 to 1971 Lakers had three players who are ranked as top 15 players of all time by some. The 1980s Lakers had two of the five greatest basketball players ever. Oscar wanted to team up with Alcindor, Moses Malone went to a team that had Doctor J and had contended for titles for years. Large concentrations of talent on a few teams isn't unheard of.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Why didn't Stern send in the whistle brigade to gift Wade at the line on "phantom fouls" again?
He's somehow powerful enough in 2006 to do that but in 2011, Dirk was "too good"?
If Stern was about fucking over Cuban, it doesn't matter what Dirk was doing--he could still fix the game at the line, right?
With the lockout impending, I'm pretty sure Stern wanted to send a message that his chosen ones were nothing without him. Also, because Cuban shut up for the entire playoff run.
ryutaro's mama
Member
So you're saying Stern gifted Cuban a mercy fuck chip?
I can go with that.
Dirk's 2011 chip = Kobe's 2008 MVP
No, he didn't gift it. He just didn't interfere to his normal level.
You could probably call the 2011 Finals the only fairly won title since 2007.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I don't think that's necessarily true. Just for shits, I grabbed Bill Simmons' book and looked at his list of the Top 10 teams of all time. All of them had at least 2 hall of famers, some 3, surrounded by all stars or aging former stars. I think the perception of it has changed because of how free agency is different now. Back then players didn't move around as much. Super teams were formed via the draft and crafty trades (like teams giving the Lakers no. 1 overall picks for crap). Now it's done through free agency. In the 80s, a guy like Bosh would have been one of those guys that put up great numbers on bad teams as a solo act on his own team for 10-12 years, instead he now leaves via free agency and it's called a "Super Team".
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Someone put Kobe's face on Bolt's and Dwight's on the volunteer hahaha
Cheeeeeeeesin'
Do it the other way around to mimic reality
ryutaro's mama
Member
So are you saying Stern fucked the Lakers in 2008?
Never change, Brandi.
Never change.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
Whats with this Eli Manning, Joe Bidden, Obama, Beckham, Jeremy Lin "Don't hit women ad".....did I miss something?
Jason Kidd have a relapse?
Jason Kidd have a relapse?
No, Stern just favored Boston a little bit more at the time... they needed to be thrown a bone.
Syphon Filter
Member
trolol
ryutaro's mama
Member
This is why you aren't a coach and wouldn't even be allowed to coach a grade school team.
Wait until you hear the one where Lebron, Wade, and Bosh colluded with the help of Pat Riley and Stern did nothing about it.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Boston outplayed them, and Doc Rivers owned Phil Jackson.
David won as soon as it was Lakers/Celtics
Honestly, if Howard had just decided to join up with the Lakers Heat style it would bother me less than watching braindead GMs make shitty trades to give gifts to the 1%. It's pretty bad when Stern's illusion of parity is actually stomped to death by the smaller market teams themselves.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Annnnnd here we go!
That's true. When it's teams like Bos/LA or OKC/MIA I don't think Stern really cares who wins. He's already won at that point.
Ninja Scooter
Member
it's worse when naive people buy into Stern's illusion of parity.
yeah, I kinda feel like most people really know deep down it's bullshit, but it'd probably be nice if some of the GMs at least tried.
Black Mamba
Member
Team USA has been outscored in every game without either Love, Chandler, or Davis on the floor except the Nigeria game for obvious reasons.
Why would you have Melo and Lebron guard Pau and Marc? And you say I wouldn't be allowed to coach!?
Spain doesn't have the guard play or perimeter depth to beat this US team. And a match up that requires one of the Gasol brothers to guard Melo, Lebron or Durant is just asking for trouble. You put this line up in and Spain would have to take one of their bigs out or they run the risk of getting run off the floor. And again people like to act like Melo, Durant and Lebron is a small front line because all these guys play the 3 when it really isn't. Duran't is 6'11, Lebron is 6'9 265+ and Melo is 6'8 240. Melo and Lebron and have been really good on the boards.
And I've coached before.
Black Mamba
Member
And yet this lineup has been outscored by every team, even the crappy ones like Tunisia, Lithuania, etc. You think Spain won't be able to expose it? Argentina did in the 1st matchup, as well, and badly. Something like -14 in under 10 minutes. Why would Spain pull a big out if no other team with worse frontlines did so and it worked for them?
They can play Lebron and Melo together as long as Tyson or Love is still in. I'm not attacking Melo, here. You're talking about 2 of the most offensively skilled 7 footers in the world. Melo and Bron would get hammered. Spain is going to zone up the USA, anyway, so it won't matter. And with the inside scoring, the pace of the game will slow down.
But the Yanks and Red Sox miss the playoffs occasionally. Lakers and Heat, at the earliest, get bounced in the conference semis in some fluke occurrence. 90% of the betting public and people on this forum would agree that the winner from Spurs-Thunder-Lakers will play the Heat. 4 teams can win the 2012-2013 title. It's crazy to argue that's healthy for the sport
I gonna tell right now what Team USA could have done the whole tourney if they seriously feared any of the comp or wanted to really embarrass them. Team US could have have ran full court press or traps and then run 2-3, 3-2 or 1-3-1, including the match up versions of each of the zones, and would have smashed some teams even worse.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
it isn't a bad offensive front line but it is a god awful defensive front line.. and I coached and played.. (since we were listing resumes)
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