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2012 NBA Playoffs |OT2| OKC VS LA: Black on Black Crime

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dream

dream

Member
Are you really good at logic, Shadowlark? Cause I need help figuring out valid categorical syllogisms based on distribution or whatever the fuck.
 
I

iamshadowlark

Banned
charsace said:
Heat fans are ignoring what I'm saying as usual. It's obvious that Lebron and wade have no defined roles. They both do what they want. That doesn't work in a team game. Lebron and wade need to be given roles, especially on offense. Players need defined roles that demand something of them.

And most of you don't know anything about the bulls pre-Phil Jackson. Most people hated that team. People in Chicago hated pippen and thought he was a bust. They thought grant was soft. Thought paxson was washed up. Then Phil came in and gave those guys roles and real responsibilies on the court. You guys talk about pippen being great, you only know the Phil era pippen. Not the pre-Phil pippen who was a mediocre role player and soft. Pippen was so soft that oak grabbed him on camera and slapped him up like it was his little brother. That was when Oak was still on the bulls. And this was when the NBA was still a rough league.
Click to expand...
Of course they have roles. Maybe you are too stupid to notice though.
BruceLeeRoy said:
And here I was about to invite you out for a beer but your so adamant about not knowing me personally.
Click to expand...

Naw man only butt-hurt knicks fans. We good man.

dream said:
Are you really good at logic, Shadowlark? Cause I need help figuring out valid categorical syllogisms based on distribution or whatever the fuck.
Click to expand...

Based on distribution?
 
J

Justin Timberlake

Member
The Danny Green example was so good. cot damn

ph33nix said:
I still expect the Heat to win and if LeBron and Wade are what I thought they were, they'll smash the Pacers (or lose today and then smash them the next 3)
Click to expand...

Poor ph33 is going to be so disappointed.

These will be a rough few years for Miami fans.
 
B

BobLoblaw

Banned
charsace said:
Heat apologists are hilarious. Since the Heat formed the big 3 the game plan has been, "everyone else on the team, get out of the way and let us get our numbers." And so when Bosh goes down they expect the Heat to play team ball like the Spurs? lol.

This is what happens when you have two superstars where their role on the team is, "do whatever you want to get your numbers." Bosh is the only one out of the big 3 that has a defined role on the team. Its been years and both Lebron and Wade are stuck in the pre-Phil Jackson era Jordan in how they play.

Jordan was putting up 30, 8, 8 at times and defending all over the court like Lebron. Then Phil Jackson came in and made him realize that you can't build a team if the rest of the team isn't made accountable, isn't called on to do something that contributes to the winning. It why Pippen and Grant went from being Varejo and Mo Williams to being who they are; Pippen and Grant. People forget how Pippen and Grant used to get bitched up by the Pistons while Jordan was putting up numbers that would make Lebron wet, the bulls were still losing. Then the bulls gambled and brought in an unknown guy in Phil, and he turned the organization on its head. He challenged everyone on the team. He gave Pippen more responsibility than any other coach would have. He took the ball out of Jordan's hand and challenged him to play within a team structure. He gave Pippen the job of running the offense when people in chicago hated him and wanted him gone. He made Grant into the tough, hard nosed, double-double beast. He made them into a 3 peat team.

People, especially heat fans and Lebron apologists, like to pretend that the bulls were alway good. That Pippen and Grant were always great players known for toughness. That Paxson was always known for his clutch shooting. That Cartwright wasn't a knicks cast off who lost his job and role to a young phenom named Ewing and a hard nosed Oakley. They like to pretend that the bulls weren't a team that people thought was soft. That they only had one player that most people said was selfish, and more concerned about flash and stats than winning titles. Most people only remember the end product of the bulls, not that they were a loser franchise that was Clippers level bad.

Lebron needs to accept a role on the team and stick to it. So does Wade. Instead of hogging the ball and trying to do everything, and in doing so not allowing the team to blossom into something good. They take responsibility away from the guys they play with and now they expect those same guys to do more on the drop of a hat? That's not going to happen. And this is why Lebron will never win. He makes the team suck on his tit, but when things are hard he wants to pull it away and make them grow up over night. At least when Jordan was going ham he did a better job of it and was always determined to win, no matter who he played or how hard things got. When things get hard Lebron wilts and starts being his team to do things they didn't have to do during the regular season.

The idea that players step up when their team needs them is bullshit. The guys that appear to be stepping up are just doing the roles that they have been prepared to do. Grant wasn't stepping up for the bulls he was doing the role he was trained for. Horry didn't step up for the Rockets, Lakers or Spurs, he performed the role he was prepared for. Danny Green isn't stepping up, draining 3's, playing defense and running offensive sets because he stepping up, its because Pop has been training him to do this since the spurs got him. And the funny thing is Green was one of those "scrubs" Lebron had to "endure" in Cleveland. I bet Lebron would kill to have him now.

Lebron will never win as long as he's Lebron "The Chosen Once," "King" James.
Click to expand...
GAF post of the week for sure. Brilliant!
 
C

charsace

Member
ph33nix said:
Who is this response to?

Knicks fans being stupid as usual.
Click to expand...
You're being stupid. You think I still care about not getting Lebron when I don't talk about it. You put your hand over your eyes and plug your ears. What wade did to Spo no player would ever do to Phil or Pop. Never. The shit that the heat have pulled since becoming the big 3 would never happen on the Spurs. And they have titles.

The heat need a coach to come in and take control. They need someone to come in and break guys down on the team, to rebuild them. Lebron especially. Riley won't do it because these dudes would probably quit on him. They need someone though.
 
C

charsace

Member
iamshadowlark said:
Of course they have roles. Maybe you are too stupid to notice though.


Naw man only butt-hurt knicks fans. We good man.



Based on distribution?
Click to expand...

Break down their roles. Because I see two guys doing whatever they want. Like pre-Phil Jordan. Its more successful for them because of the current rules and talent doesn't get as concentrated like it used to because of all the added teams and poor big man development.
 
G

Gabyskra

Banned
c7ee186338eed7f2633b7d47fe567997_large
 
V

Vahagn

Member
Char nailed it in its head. Any analysis of basketball that doesn't include psychology is not an analysis of basketball, period. Basketball, as the old cliche goes, is 90% mental. And that doesn't mean it's about studying synergy shot charts before a game, it's about developing players strengths, it's about developing a team game, it's about defining roles. Anyone that has watched a great coach like Phil or Pop or Sloan knows this.


Today's NBA fan would rather listen to Hollinger and Abbott on how basketball should be played than on the people actually doing the coaching...it's a fucking joke.


If the Heat lose this year, it would be a failed experiment. They're small, they lack size, they lack a solid 4th option that can step in and be the 3rd option if an injury happens, they lack a team offensive system and they lack defined roles for players 4-12 other than "set screens, run around, and if you're open off a Lebron/wade double - shoot the J"

No one would consider the Celtics Big 3 a success if they didn't win. No one considered the Shaq/Kobe team a success until they won...no one would consider the Pau Gasol trade a success if the Lakers didn't win, and no one will consider the Miami Heat a success or even the NY Knicks a success unless they win.

Miami fans that pretend otherwise are kidding themselves, the Heat would have, and should have won in 2011 but they lost because Lebron wasn't mentally ready for the moment...this team so far has been a failure and Lebron and Wade unwilling to be coached is a big part of that.
 
P

PBY

Banned
charsace said:
You're being stupid. You think I still care about not getting Lebron when I don't talk about it. You put your hand over your eyes and plug your ears. What wade did to Spo no player would ever do to Phil or Pop. Never. The shit that the heat have pulled since becoming the big 3 would never happen on the Spurs. And they have titles.

The heat need a coach to come in and take control. They need someone to come in and break guys down on the team, to rebuild them. Lebron especially. Riley won't do it because these dudes would probably quit on him. They need someone though.
Click to expand...

Ugh the projecting, reactionary flavor of the week arguments, and lack of perspective in all of your posts makes me sick- I just can't believe you got best gaf to applaud weakly put together arguments that are culled from the greatest hits of woj and bayless.
 
T

Tom Penny

Member
Vahagn said:
Char nailed it in its head. Any analysis if basketball that doesn't include psychology is not an analysis of basketball, period. Basketball, ad the old cliche goes, is 90% mental. And that doesn't mean it's about studying synergy shot charts before a game, it's about developing players strengths, it's about developing a team game, it's about defining roles. Anyone that has watched a great coach like Phil or Pop or Soan knows this.


Today's NBA fan would rather listen to Hollinger and Abbott on how basketball should be played than on the people actually doing the coaching...it's a fucking joke.


If the Heat lose this year, it would be a failed experiment. They're small, they lack size, they lack a solid 4th option that can step in and be the 3rd option if an injury happens, they lack a team offensive system and they lack defined roles for players 4-12 other than "set screens, run around, and if you're open off a Lebron/wade double - shoot the J"

No one would consider the Celtics Big 3 a success if they didn't win. no one considered the Shaq/Kobe team a success until they won...no one would consider the Pau Gasol trade a success if the Lakers didn't win, and no one will consider the Miami Heat a success or even the NY Knicks a success unless they win.

Miami fans that pretend otherwise are kidding themselves, the Heat would have and should have won in 2011 but they lost because Lebron wasn't mentally ready for the moment...this team so far has been a failure and Lebron and Wace unwilling to be coached is a big part of that.
Click to expand...

Basketball isn't close to being 90% mental.
 
C

charsace

Member
peterb0y said:
Ugh the projecting, reactionary flavor of the week arguments, and lack of perspective in all of your posts makes me sick- I just can't believe you got best gaf to applaud weakly put together arguments that are culled from the greatest hits of woj and bayless.
Click to expand...
What perspective am I lacking?
 
I

iamshadowlark

Banned
charsace said:
Break down their roles. Because I see two guys doing whatever they want. Like pre-Phil Jordan. Its more successful for them because of the current rules and talent doesn't get as concentrated like it used to because of all the added teams and poor big man development.
Click to expand...
Lebron is the best passer on the team so he is the main facilitator, who looks for himself also. Wade helps handle the ball some, is our second option scoring and is usually our goto guy if we need a shot down the stretch. Bosh provides spacing around the interior and keeps other bigs on their toes.
Gabyskra said:
How do you even get autocorrect to put "two" instead of "too"? Opposite side of the virtual keyboard.
Click to expand...

My OS checks grammar so an error is probably what happened.
 
I

iamshadowlark

Banned
Vahagn said:
Char nailed it in its head. Any analysis of basketball that doesn't include psychology is not an analysis of basketball, period. Basketball, as the old cliche goes, is 90% mental. And that doesn't mean it's about studying synergy shot charts before a game, it's about developing players strengths, it's about developing a team game, it's about defining roles. Anyone that has watched a great coach like Phil or Pop or Sloan knows this.


Today's NBA fan would rather listen to Hollinger and Abbott on how basketball should be played than on the people actually doing the coaching...it's a fucking joke.


If the Heat lose this year, it would be a failed experiment. They're small, they lack size, they lack a solid 4th option that can step in and be the 3rd option if an injury happens, they lack a team offensive system and they lack defined roles for players 4-12 other than "set screens, run around, and if you're open off a Lebron/wade double - shoot the J"

No one would consider the Celtics Big 3 a success if they didn't win. No one considered the Shaq/Kobe team a success until they won...no one would consider the Pau Gasol trade a success if the Lakers didn't win, and no one will consider the Miami Heat a success or even the NY Knicks a success unless they win.

Miami fans that pretend otherwise are kidding themselves, the Heat would have, and should have won in 2011 but they lost because Lebron wasn't mentally ready for the moment...this team so far has been a failure and Lebron and Wade unwilling to be coached is a big part of that.
Click to expand...

Im going to guess you have played very little organized ball in your life.
 
P

PBY

Banned
charsace said:
What perspective am I lacking?
Click to expand...
Well- for one it's very easy to come out and make these arguments now that the heat are down- they would have been far more credited had you posted that during the last series.
That of course doesn't even begin to address your contradictory stance.
 
T

The Frankman

Banned
peterb0y said:
Well- for one it's very easy to come out and make these arguments now that the heat are down- they would have been far more credited had you posted that during the last series.
That of course doesn't even begin to address your contradictory stance.
Click to expand...
In fairness, alot of similar posts were made last year, but you weren't around then.
 
C

CoffeeJanitor

Member
charsace said:
Heat apologists are hilarious. Since the Heat formed the big 3 the game plan has been, "everyone else on the team, get out of the way and let us get our numbers." And so when Bosh goes down they expect the Heat to play team ball like the Spurs? lol.

This is what happens when you have two superstars where their role on the team is, "do whatever you want to get your numbers." Bosh is the only one out of the big 3 that has a defined role on the team. Its been years and both Lebron and Wade are stuck in the pre-Phil Jackson era Jordan in how they play.

Jordan was putting up 30, 8, 8 at times and defending all over the court like Lebron. Then Phil Jackson came in and made him realize that you can't build a team if the rest of the team isn't made accountable, isn't called on to do something that contributes to the winning. It why Pippen and Grant went from being Varejo and Mo Williams to being who they are; Pippen and Grant. People forget how Pippen and Grant used to get bitched up by the Pistons while Jordan was putting up numbers that would make Lebron wet, the bulls were still losing. Then the bulls gambled and brought in an unknown guy in Phil, and he turned the organization on its head. He challenged everyone on the team. He gave Pippen more responsibility than any other coach would have. He took the ball out of Jordan's hand and challenged him to play within a team structure. He gave Pippen the job of running the offense when people in chicago hated him and wanted him gone. He made Grant into the tough, hard nosed, double-double beast. He made them into a 3 peat team.

People, especially heat fans and Lebron apologists, like to pretend that the bulls were alway good. That Pippen and Grant were always great players known for toughness. That Paxson was always known for his clutch shooting. That Cartwright wasn't a knicks cast off who lost his job and role to a young phenom named Ewing and a hard nosed Oakley. They like to pretend that the bulls weren't a team that people thought was soft. That they only had one player that most people said was selfish, and more concerned about flash and stats than winning titles. Most people only remember the end product of the bulls, not that they were a loser franchise that was Clippers level bad.

Lebron needs to accept a role on the team and stick to it. So does Wade. Instead of hogging the ball and trying to do everything, and in doing so not allowing the team to blossom into something good. They take responsibility away from the guys they play with and now they expect those same guys to do more on the drop of a hat? That's not going to happen. And this is why Lebron will never win. He makes the team suck on his tit, but when things are hard he wants to pull it away and make them grow up over night. At least when Jordan was going ham he did a better job of it and was always determined to win, no matter who he played or how hard things got. When things get hard Lebron wilts and starts being his team to do things they didn't have to do during the regular season.

The idea that players step up when their team needs them is bullshit. The guys that appear to be stepping up are just doing the roles that they have been prepared to do. Grant wasn't stepping up for the bulls he was doing the role he was trained for. Horry didn't step up for the Rockets, Lakers or Spurs, he performed the role he was prepared for. Danny Green isn't stepping up, draining 3's, playing defense and running offensive sets because he stepping up, its because Pop has been training him to do this since the spurs got him. And the funny thing is Green was one of those "scrubs" Lebron had to "endure" in Cleveland. I bet Lebron would kill to have him now.

Lebron will never win as long as he's Lebron "The Chosen Once," "King" James.
Click to expand...
Just read this........holy crap
 
L

LuchaShaq

Banned
dIEHARD said:
He's 4-15 (28.5%) on shots less than 24 seconds to take the lead in playoffs games and 10-34 (29%) to tie or take lead in the last minute of playoff games. That's since 2000 so its missing some airballs.

to give this some frame of reference, Lebron is 4-8 and 10-20.

Kobe Bryant being clutch is a myth and a lie that parents told little Laker fans to help them sleep at night.
Click to expand...

Ding ding ding.

With fans/dumb media people playing armchair psychologist it's probably easier to jack up a bad shot than pass to an open teammate because the second will get you called a choker for life.

Insane that it's the complete opposite of how it used to be before the 24/7 news cycle.

Lebron won't have a big game today, he's going to have to spend 44 minutes going crazy on D to even keep them in the game let alone drop 40-8-8.



Lebron's biggest mistake in the "clutch" was choosing miami over the Bulls or the Clippers.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Miami Heat coach Erik Spoelstra will use his fourth starting lineup in four games during Game 4 of an Eastern Conference semifinals series against the Indiana Pacers on Sunday.

Spoelstra will move center Ronny Turiaf into the starting lineup alongside forwards LeBron James and Shane Battier and guards Dwyane Wade and Mario Chalmers.
Click to expand...

lol.
 
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