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2012 NBA Playoffs |OT2| OKC VS LA: Black on Black Crime

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V

Vahagn

Member
Black Mamba said:
At some point, you quit trying because you know you won't get it. Bynum had 2 shots in the 4th, one being a result of Kobe being forced to pass or step out of bounds. Go check out how he stopped posting up aggressively the same under 3 min in the game. He realized he wasn't going to get the ball, so he stopped trying as hard.

Kobe broke everyone's rhythm. They stood and watched him. That's on him. He runs the offense. He has to get people involved.
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Fair Kobe should get people involved, and like I said, he did shoot them out of the game.


But you nonchalantly mention quitting trying. Um sorry, no, you fucking don't quit trying in a must win playoff game that is in contention. Pau Gasol disappears from important games FAR TOO OFTEN, it's not that he has bad games, it's that he becomes a non-factor. A good playoff game for Pau is 18-12 with 3 blocks.


His effort level has been inconsistent, that's not about having good or bad games, that's about not putting everything on the line for your team. Notice I'm not blaming him for that TO although He should have shot the damn ball, I'm blaming him for his lack of aggressiveness...I'm blaming him for the fact that the Kobe/Pau PnR has been useless all series because Kobe gets doubled and Pau hasn't made them pay enough when he's open. I'm blaming him for not putting their bigs in foul trouble and getting Ibaka off the damn floor. When Kobe has done a good job of putting Harden and Safalosha in foul trouble from time to time.


Pau basically becomes a better passing Josh McRoberts in some games, it's not good enough.


Edit: Also, part of being assertive is stepping up to Kobe during a timeout and telling him "give me the ball this play, I'm attacking the basket with force" and then doing it. There's an article linked on the last page where that's what Pau said to Kobe before that PnR, except Pau didn't shoot or attack the basket, he just passed. You lose your teammates trust when you don't bring effort into the game and Pau makes that mistake all too often. So does Bynum, but Bynum is immature, and 24, and petulant...that's to be expected. Pau should have more poise and mental resolve than that.
 
J

Jeff-DSA

Member
Man, all Favors needs to do is develop his flop and then the media will be all like, "BLAKE GRIFFIN OR DERRICK FAVORS: YOU DECIDE!"
 
O

Omzz

Member
Am I the only one that finds it annoying when people who don't even watch a lick of basketball, suddenly start talking shit when their home team is in the playoffs?

This is the case with the Pacers who I now hate and want them to lose badly.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Vahagn said:
Fair Kobe should get people involved, and like I said, he did shoot them out of the game.


But you nonchalantly mention quitting trying. Um sorry, no, you fucking don't quit trying in a must win playoff game that is in contention. Pau Gasol disappears from important games FAR TOO OFTEN, it's not that he has bad games, it's that he becomes a non-factor. A good playoff game for Pau is 18-12 with 3 blocks.


His effort level has been inconsistent, that's not about having good or bad games, that's about not putting everything on the line for your team. Notice I'm not blaming him for that TO. He should have shot the damn ball, I'm blaming him for his lack of aggressiveness...I'm blaming him for the fact that the Kobe/Pau PnR has been useless all series because Kobe gets doubled and Pau hasn't made them pay enough when he's open. I'm blaming him for not putting their bigs in foul trouble and getting Ibaka off the damn floor.


Pau basically becomes a better passing Josh McRoberts in some games, it's not good enough.
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The effort stops because of Kobe. They work hard with no reward. Pau doesn't get passed to in the PnR even though Kobe should make the pass. Numerous times.

Pau didn't disappear last game. He was brushed aside by his teammates. Bynum and Pau alike were missing.

I think Pau, at times, is unsure when to be more aggressive and when to facilitate since this is a newer role for him. But this notion that Pau isn't playing hard is ridiculous. The effort is there. But he ain't going to waste his energy doing something for no reason.

Lakers had what, 1 assist the entire 4th quarter? But it's all Pau's fault who was passed the ball once.

Edit: Also, part of being assertive is stepping up to Kobe during a timeout and telling him "give me the ball this play, I'm attacking the basket with force" and then doing it. There's an article linked on the last page where that's what Pau said to Kobe before that PnR, except Pau didn't shoot or attack the basket, he just passed. You lose your teammates trust and you don't bring effort into the game and Pau makes that mistake all too often. So does Bynum, but Bynum is immature, and 24, and petulant...that's to be expected. Pau should have more poise and mental resolve than that.
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Newsflash: Nobody likes Kobe. They don't want to talk to him. Accept it. Bynum's basically been subtly insulting him all year.


Kobe wanted to out-duel Durant. Period. That's why they lost.
 
P

Prototype-03

Member
Omzz said:
Am I the only one that finds it annoying when people who don't even watch a lick of basketball, suddenly start talking shit when their home team is in the playoffs?

This is the case with the Pacers who I now hate and want them to lose badly.
Click to expand...

bandwaggoners? Happens all the time.

This is how Linsanity was born.
 
T

The Frankman

Banned
Omzz said:
Am I the only one that finds it annoying when people who don't even watch a lick of basketball, suddenly start talking shit when their home team is in the playoffs?

This is the case with the Pacers who I now hate and want them to lose badly.
Click to expand...
You mean the Heat.
 
T

ThisWreckage

Banned
Vahagn said:
Pau Gasol went 4-10 and had 5 rebounds. Your starting PF had 5 rebounds, and shot 40% from the field and he's not to blame?


Enough with this "ball hogging" bullshit easy ass explanation. It's Pau's responsibility to get in there, bang, and get rebounds, it's Pau's responsibility to learn how to attack a double team or create opportunities for himself.


There's this weird thing with Kobe where we take him putting 100% effort into every game as a given and don't give him any credit for it. We just look at field goal percentages and judge him primarily squarely on that. It's absurd and needs to stop. Pau Gasol shouldn't be judged on his production, because his effort itself is so damn porous (5 REBOUNDS?) that his production shouldn't mean anything.


Jordan shot 15-35 in game 6 of the 1998 finals. He balhogged his ass off all game, shot poorly and if he missed that shot would have been the reason they lost the game. Except, he wouldn't have been for the simple fact that you can't question his effort.


When everyone on the Lakers, people who have played HALF the minutes in their careers that Kobe has put the same type of effort in the game that Kobe does in terms of doing the basic things they're responsible for, then we can talk about production. But when Pau's effort can't match Kobe's, we shouldn't be talking about production here Mamba.


Kobe played poorly in the fourth, but his offensive effectiveness in the first 3 is the main reason they had the lead in the first place


Sidenote: This is particularly why the Lebron late game FG% numbers are so irrelevant, the dude shy's away from late game situations often and doesn't take any shots, his effort level drops way down and he just stands around. Pau is very much the same way and it's not excusable.
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Gasol had a bad game, but the game was lost when a wild Kome appeared. Go back where I predicted that in this thread. OKC wants Kobe to try to take over. They WANT that. When Kobe starts trying to take over the Lakers become so much weaker it's not even funny. A lot of Lakers fans are delusional. One of the reasons why the Lakers are not contenders anymore is because a) Kobe is old and his game hasn't aged as gracefully as someone like Duncan b) his contract is so absurd and he can't even be traded and c) his ego is the size of a small planet.
 
J

Justin Timberlake

Member
You guys just seem to be talking over each other.

Kobe lost the Lakers the game. Single handedly. He played for himself and not the team, and was a large reason why the rest of the Lakers played scared. "Effort" isn't praiseworthy if its pointed in a harmful direction.

But Pau was also awful, and though not equally to blame (Kobe was much worse), he has too much talent to only get 10 & 5.

So you're both right. The Lakers suck.
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
Omzz said:
Am I the only one that finds it annoying when people who don't even watch a lick of basketball, suddenly start talking shit when their home team is in the playoffs?

This is the case with the Pacers who I now hate and want them to lose badly.
Click to expand...

But I was told the Pacers play great ball. Also I was told that the fans appreciate team ball (29th in attendance).
 
V

Vahagn

Member
ThisWreckage said:
Gasol had a bad game, but the game was lost when a wild Kome appeared. Go back where I predicted that in this thread. OKC wants Kobe to try to take over. They WANT that. When Kobe starts trying to take over the Lakers become so much weaker it's not even funny. A lot of Lakers fans are delusional. One of the reasons why the Lakers are not contenders anymore is because a) Kobe is old and his game hasn't aged as gracefully as someone like Duncan b) his contract is so absurd and he can't even be traded and c) his ego is the size of a small planet.
Click to expand...



A) What on earth are you smoking? Duncan's game hasn't aged gracefully at all. The guy hasn't even been in the conversation for best PF in the league for like 4 years now and can only be productive when he gets to miss 10-12 games a year without an actual injury, sit out back to backs, play 25 minutes a night otherwise. Trust me, if Kobe played the limited minutes Duncan plays, there would be no comparison as to who would be more dominant. Their isn't any question even now. Duncan can have one great game every 5.


B) The Spurs haven't been contenders for 4 years. It took them 4 years and multiple first round exits and getting swept to rebuild the team around someone completely different (From Duncan to Parker) and in a completely different image (Defense to Offense) for them to get back to being contenders. The Lakers aren't contenders anymore solely because Kobe is past his prime, and when compared to the Thunder and the Heat the Lakers aren't young enough, good enough, or athletic enough to win. And as compared to the Spurs, they aren't as well coached or nearly as deep because the Spurs have had 4 years to completely re-tool their team
 
V

Vahagn

Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Duncan has been amazing in the playoffs and this year, Vag.
Click to expand...

15 and 9 is hardly amazing. And he's missed at least one game of all the B2B2B's and missed several games in B2B settings without injuries. He also only plays 28 minutes a game. If the Spurs weren't as deep or as loaded or as well coached and Duncan had to play Kobe type minutes for the team to be competitive, he would have broken down months ago.
 
D

diehard

Fleer
Vahagn said:
15 and 9 is hardly amazing. And he's missed at least one game of all the B2B2B's and missed several games in B2B settings without injuries. He also only plays 28 minutes a game. If the Spurs weren't as deep or as loaded or as well coached and Duncan had to play Kobe type minutes for the team to be competitive, he would have broken down months ago.
Click to expand...

Duncan is at 17.6/9/3/2 on 32 mpg in the playoffs and those are fantastic numbers.

wonder why he dominated the Clips so much more than the Jazz..

oh wait, no i don't.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
thekad said:
^KG

If Duncan cared about his stats (or had a coach as bad as Mike Brown), maybe he'd play Kobe type minutes.
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KG is definitely in the conversation, but KG is also playing 5MPG more and his team is struggling to beat the Sixers.
 
R

Red Blaster

Member
Vahagn said:
A) What on earth are you smoking? Duncan's game hasn't aged gracefully at all. The guy hasn't even been in the conversation for best PF in the league for like 4 years now and can only be productive when he gets to miss 10-12 games a year without an actual injury, sit out back to backs, play 25 minutes a night otherwise. Trust me, if Kobe played the limited minutes Duncan plays, there would be no comparison as to who would be more dominant. Their isn't any question even now. Duncan can have one great game every 5.
Click to expand...

Duncan's game has aged gracefully because he knows his limitations as an older player.

Since Kobe doesn't he still throws up 20 attempts a night and shoots his team out of games instead of fully committing to an inside-out offense.
 
V

Vahagn

Member
reilo said:
Duncan has been easily the best power-forward in the playoffs.
Click to expand...

True, but to suggest Duncan's game has aged more gracefully than Kobe's is a joke. Duncan hasn't been in the conversation for best player in the league for the past half decade.


Also, whether Duncan plays well, or he doesn't, the Spurs still blow practically every team out. If he had a 38 point, 8 rebound, 5 assist game the Spurs would win by 35 and there wouldn't be a discussion of him having a bad game. Kobe doesn't have that luxury
 
J

Justin Timberlake

Member
36 year old Tim Duncan just decimated 22 year old Blake Griffin and this dude is trying to tell me Duncan hasn't aged gracefully. As if Timmy didn't just will the Spurs to a win last night.

21 ppg (on 59.4%), 9.3 rpg, 3.3 apg, 2 bpg, +69 +/- in 34 mpg....plus hes anchoring the defense....Series PER: 28.8.

This literally just happened.

Vag, you're so transparent it hurts.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Vahagn said:
True, but to suggest Duncan's game has aged more gracefully than Kobe's is a joke. Duncan hasn't been in the conversation for best player in the league for the past half decade.


Also, whether Duncan plays well, or he doesn't, the Spurs still blow practically every team out. If he had a 38 point, 8 rebound, 5 assist game the Spurs would win by 35 and there wouldn't be a discussion of him having a bad game. Kobe doesn't have that luxury
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That's Kobe's own fault for not knowing when to relinquish control. Duncan has been perfectly a-okay with letting Tony and Manu run the show when they have it going.
 
G

Gabyskra

Banned
I'm a huge Jrue fan. Knux does not deserve him, he does not show enough appreciation. We'll give you anything not named Shumptyshump, Tyson or Mellow
 
V

Vahagn

Member
reilo said:
That's Kobe's own fault for not knowing when to relinquish control. Duncan has been perfectly a-okay with letting Tony and Manu run the show when they have it going.
Click to expand...

It's kind of easy when your team blows people out while you sit on the bench regularly. Trust me, if the Lakers were blowing people out as easily or as regularly as the Spurs were, and had the depth the Spurs did, Kobe would rest more as well.


Last year, the Spurs used Duncan in the same way they use him now, but he got swept out of the first round...now that his TEAM is better, you guys are giving Duncan the credit lol
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Vahagn said:
It's kind of easy when your team blows people out while you sit on the bench regularly. Trust me, if the Lakers were blowing people out as easily or as regularly as the Spurs were, and had the depth the Spurs did, Kobe would rest more as well.


Last year, the Spurs used Duncan in the same way they use him now, but he got swept out of the first round...now that his TEAM is better, you guys are giving Duncan the credit lol
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The Spurs got swept out of the first round? Dude...

The real difference? Healthy Manu.
 
C

cuevas. PhD.

Member
Who cares about bandwagoners? If you're a real fan you'll be fucking ecstatic when they win because you've put a lot of time and maybe money into your team. Who cares if some Jamoke bought a jersey last week and pretends to care?
 
J

Jeff-DSA

Member
cuevas said:
Who cares about bandwagoners? If you're a real fan you'll be fucking ecstatic when they win because you've put a lot of time and maybe money into your team. Who cares if some Jamoke bought a jersey last week and pretends to care?
Click to expand...

Because they go beyond pretending to care. You don't have the right to talk trash if you weren't there before the team rose up.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
reilo said:
The Spurs got swept out of the first round? Dude...

The real difference? Healthy Manu.
Click to expand...

Duncan and Parker playing a lot better this postseason, they no longer play Blair who is terrible, they no longer have Jefferson who was terrible, those are probably the main upgrades. Manu has been pretty off shooting wise this postseason so far.
 
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